Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36

[Eric Johnson]

Hello Ernie & Company,
I appreciate all the suggestions on installing a separate transmission cooler.
From the
website Tom recommended as cooler source they recommend a two pass cooler w/
dimensions of 22"X24"X1-1/2" plus a fan. There is quite a bit of space in
between frame
rails about 1/2 way back if you mount it in a horizontal orientation above the
drive shaft
and in front of retarder. Don't understand comments about the rediline
compartment.
You guys thinking to cut the compartment walls away and use the space for the
cooler?
Regards, Eric
84FC35SBWL2

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> I believe the rediline was still in my FC. That is an excellent place for
> another air intake and you Cat would love you for the modification.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83 PT40
> Livingston, Montana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Eric Johnson]

Hi Bill,
Ain't no doubt about it, this summer has been a hot one and that is playing a
role in the
heat problem. I think we are discussing a number of hardware mods that can
help. Two
important ideas that aren't getting much discussion are:
1. Driving technique. I found out the hard way that you want to proactively
downshift to
keep engine and fan rpms up. Flooring the accelerator and bogging the engine
just makes
the problem worse. You can't be in a hurry to get up the hill with a 3208 FC.
2. Ernie Collier of BB suggested installing a switch to manually bring the
Facet fan on
earlier while climbing a grade. I don't have that switch (some do) but will
install one soon.
Regards, Eric
84FC35SBWL2

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape" wrote:
>
>
>
> Gardner,
>
> More is always better in keeping the Cat running cool.
>
> But, I think some of the postings on high temps are related
> to the outside Ambient temperatures. Some 3208's do not like
> hills and mountains when the outside temp is over 90 degrees.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If I read the suggestions correctly, in an FC with the 4.88
> gears
> > and towing something an auxillary trany cooler would almost be a
> > must.
> >
> > Gardner Almost a be.
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Scott"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ernie, Eric, Good location for a variety of things. I have seen
> a
> > > couple of older FC's with their redi-line removed, or not there
> > use
> > > that area for an extra air intake as well. Filter was in that
> > area. The
> > > heavy screen could be 1/4 squares "rabbit fence" type.
> > >
> > > ScottB
> > > 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 Sale
> > > SC
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Eric, on my 84 35 FC, the transmission cooler was installed
> > under the
> > > right
> > > > front storage bay. It had a heavy mesh screen under that to
> > protect
> > > it from
> > > > debris. Worked like a charm.
> > > >
> > > > Ernie Ekberg
> > > > 83 PT40
> > > > Livingston, Montana
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[davidkerryedwards]

As someone posted earlier, turning on the winter switch and aux pump,
making sure all gate valves are open, turning on the chassis heat and
all the fans will add a significant amount of cooling capacity. It'll
probably cook the people in the coach but for a few steep hills, it's
a simple solution that requires no modifications.

Kerry
82 FC 35

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"
wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> Ain't no doubt about it, this summer has been a hot one and that is
playing a role in the
> heat problem. I think we are discussing a number of hardware mods
that can help. Two
> important ideas that aren't getting much discussion are:
> 1. Driving technique. I found out the hard way that you want to
proactively downshift to
> keep engine and fan rpms up. Flooring the accelerator and bogging
the engine just makes
> the problem worse. You can't be in a hurry to get up the hill with
a 3208 FC.
> 2. Ernie Collier of BB suggested installing a switch to manually
bring the Facet fan on
> earlier while climbing a grade. I don't have that switch (some do)
but will install one soon.
> Regards, Eric
> 84FC35SBWL2
>
>

[Eric Johnson]

Hi Ernie,
Don't think I have a Rediline. There is no black metal louvered panel. Maybe
WL2's didn't
have such a thing. Front right compartment is just like the others and I keep
tools in
there.
Thanks, Eric
84FC35SWL2

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> ERic- did your Wanderlodge II have a Rediline?
> On my FC, I didn't know I had a rediline till I opened the front curb side
> compartment and looked behind the black metal louvered panel- there was this
> "thing" back there. Of course, back in those days, I hadn't a clue what a
> rediline was. The things we learn from these coaches!!
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83 PT40
> Livingston, Montana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Scott]

Eric, you probably do not have the rediline then. It looks like a
small air compressor in there. It runs an outlet on the wall and the
ice machine, while running down the road. It is an electric generator
providing 110v from the CAT motor. Our 86FC has one and it still
works fine. I would not replace it if it give up the ghost. It pulls
90amps when running. In todays world inverters are much more
effecient in my opinion. If you do not have a rediline then you are
there. Time to modify the compartment.

ScottB
86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE
SC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"
wrote:
>
> Hi Ernie,
> Don't think I have a Rediline. There is no black metal louvered
panel. Maybe WL2's didn't
> have such a thing. Front right compartment is just like the others
and I keep tools in
> there.
> Thanks, Eric
> 84FC35SWL2
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> >
> > ERic- did your Wanderlodge II have a Rediline?
> > On my FC, I didn't know I had a rediline till I opened the front
curb side
> > compartment and looked behind the black metal louvered panel-
there was this
> > "thing" back there. Of course, back in those days, I hadn't a
clue what a
> > rediline was. The things we learn from these coaches!!
> >
> > Ernie Ekberg
> > 83 PT40
> > Livingston, Montana
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Howard O. Truitt]

Scottt,
I have never heard of turning on the winter/summer switch and the aux. pump for
extra radiator cooling. How much have you seen this help. Do you need to have
the heaters in the coach turned on.
Little things like this is what makes this a great site.
Howard Truitt
Camilla, Ga.
86 PT40

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36


Hey Bill, I would agree. In our 86FC when coolant temps approach 220*
I am hitting the winter/summer switch and turning on the aux pump. If
that does not help then the fan override is next. If that is no help
the I am looking for a place to stop. Something is wrong.

Believe me I know the cost of CAT heads,gaskets, rad cleaning, new
water pump etc. ($5k) Been there. Mike has a "lil speriance" himself.
I would tend to agree with him. The oil may handle the temps but my
CAT doesnt like em. Plus I ALWAYS cool the engine down before shut
down.

Anything I can do to help the old girl, I will try. She may be old
but she can still dance!

ScottB
86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE
SC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey Mike & Eric,
>
> The BB manual in the Blue Box states that the normal
> oil temp for the 3208 should be between 200 and 250.
>
> BB did not build the 3208, 250 degrees sounds really high,
> And gage readings could be off by atleast 10%.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Mike,
> > I understand that radiator spray systems are nothing new. I've
> been aware of them for a
> > number of years. Glad to hear you use one and that it gives you
> good results.
> >
> > I respect the fact that you have a lot of experience, however you
> are not the only person
> > that has some knowledge to share on our website. None of us has
> the corner on
> > everything there is to know about these coaches. Your experience
> and knowledge are
> > valuable to all of us but some of what you think you know may be
> wrong.
> >
> > I hope all of us can continue to share the best of what we know
> but also be willing to listen
> > to the views of others without being critical or abusive.
> >
> > I wish you many happy Blue Bird miles.
> > Regards, Eric
> > 84FC35SBWL2
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yo, Johnson, it's NOT an IDEA. It's on my vehicle and it
> actually works, per my oil pan
> > temp gage and my water temp gage. Nothing new about, just because
> it seems to be
> > unfamilar to you. Just returned from a 4000 mile trip to Idaho
> and am going back next
> > month so I get on down the road too. As far as temperature
> limits, that's experience, I've
> > got a lot of it and it's OK if you want to ignore it my advice,
> it's your engine.
> > > MH
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Eric Johnson
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:40 PM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Again Chuck,
> > > Mike's idea about a spray bar will improve cooling capacity
on
> a hot, dry, day, but not
> > sure
> > > where he gets the max numbers on coolant and oil. Important
to
> remember the
> > > thermostat doesn't fully open until 185ºF. Radiator cap
> pressure rating of 7 psig,
> > altitude
> > > and coolant composition set how hot you can run the radiator
> before you boil over.
> > > Engine oil can safely operate at sustained temperatures of
220-
> 240ºF and for shorter
> > > periods as high as 300ºF with no problems given normal oil
> changes.
> > > Regards, Eric
> > > 84FC35SBWL2
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Chuck,
> > > > My 3208 is in the front rather than the back but your
> experiences were much like
> > mine
> > > > while climbing mountain passes in Colorado. Not sure you
can
> expect any lower
> > > > temperatures than what you're getting in hot summer
weather.
> I found on my coach
> > > that
> > > > it helps some to gear down as your speed drops off to keep
> RPM's up so the fan
> > cools
> > > > better and the engine load is reduced.
> > > > Regards, Eric
> > > > 84FC35SBWL2
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "williamcharrison"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just came back from a long trip and noticed that at every
> extended
> > > > > grade climb the temp gauge would start climbing toward
220.
> > > > > It never reached 220 but the level increase alarms me. I
> have
> > > > > cleaned the radiator and put new belts on all around. The
> oil temp
> > > > > also climbs to about 230 (though I don't know what the
> danger level
> > > > > is). The thermostat was replaced before my first trip
this
> year
> > > > > and I had no similar problems, but then the temperature
> was in the 70's
> > > > > and on the last trip it was in the 90's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chuck Harrison
> > > > > Akron, Ohio
> > > > > 90SP36
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 8/9/2006


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Scott]

Hey Howard, the winter/summer switch opens a spolan that allows the
water to travel further through the chassis heat system, instead of
going through the hot water tank then back to the CAT (remember I
have a FC) This is the same as in a car when you see high temps start
turn on the heater. It helps but not drastically, but it does help. I
try that before the fan because the fan is loud. Since I had the
radiator work, water pump I do not see the high coolant temps.

A simple check of the radiator is to take a infared temp gun
and "shoot" the radiator in various places from top to bottom, often
times if the radiator has "stuff" that has settled in the bottom of
it (kinda common) it will show a temperature difference. Some
radiators are only cooling on 1/2 or 2/3 of the capacity of the
radiator. Hence high temps under slight loads and time for some
maintenace.

ScottB
86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE
SC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Howard O. Truitt"
wrote:
>
> Scottt,
> I have never heard of turning on the winter/summer switch and the
aux. pump for extra radiator cooling. How much have you seen this
help. Do you need to have the heaters in the coach turned on.
> Little things like this is what makes this a great site.
> Howard Truitt
> Camilla, Ga.
> 86 PT40
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:49 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36
>
>
> Hey Bill, I would agree. In our 86FC when coolant temps approach
220*
> I am hitting the winter/summer switch and turning on the aux
pump. If
> that does not help then the fan override is next. If that is no
help
> the I am looking for a place to stop. Something is wrong.
>
> Believe me I know the cost of CAT heads,gaskets, rad cleaning,
new
> water pump etc. ($5k) Been there. Mike has a "lil speriance"
himself.
> I would tend to agree with him. The oil may handle the temps but
my
> CAT doesnt like em. Plus I ALWAYS cool the engine down before
shut
> down.
>
> Anything I can do to help the old girl, I will try. She may be
old
> but she can still dance!
>
> ScottB
> 86FC35 "RUBY" 4 SALE
> SC
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Mike & Eric,
> >
> > The BB manual in the Blue Box states that the normal
> > oil temp for the 3208 should be between 200 and 250.
> >
> > BB did not build the 3208, 250 degrees sounds really high,
> > And gage readings could be off by atleast 10%.
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Mike,
> > > I understand that radiator spray systems are nothing new.
I've
> > been aware of them for a
> > > number of years. Glad to hear you use one and that it gives
you
> > good results.
> > >
> > > I respect the fact that you have a lot of experience, however
you
> > are not the only person
> > > that has some knowledge to share on our website. None of us
has
> > the corner on
> > > everything there is to know about these coaches. Your
experience
> > and knowledge are
> > > valuable to all of us but some of what you think you know may
be
> > wrong.
> > >
> > > I hope all of us can continue to share the best of what we
know
> > but also be willing to listen
> > > to the views of others without being critical or abusive.
> > >
> > > I wish you many happy Blue Bird miles.
> > > Regards, Eric
> > > 84FC35SBWL2
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> > <MHOHNSTEIN@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yo, Johnson, it's NOT an IDEA. It's on my vehicle and it
> > actually works, per my oil pan
> > > temp gage and my water temp gage. Nothing new about, just
because
> > it seems to be
> > > unfamilar to you. Just returned from a 4000 mile trip to
Idaho
> > and am going back next
> > > month so I get on down the road too. As far as temperature
> > limits, that's experience, I've
> > > got a lot of it and it's OK if you want to ignore it my
advice,
> > it's your engine.
> > > > MH
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Eric Johnson
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Overheating 3208 in a 90SP36
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Again Chuck,
> > > > Mike's idea about a spray bar will improve cooling capacity
> on
> > a hot, dry, day, but not
> > > sure
> > > > where he gets the max numbers on coolant and oil. Important
> to
> > remember the
> > > > thermostat doesn't fully open until 185ºF. Radiator cap
> > pressure rating of 7 psig,
> > > altitude
> > > > and coolant composition set how hot you can run the
radiator
> > before you boil over.
> > > > Engine oil can safely operate at sustained temperatures of
> 220-
> > 240ºF and for shorter
> > > > periods as high as 300ºF with no problems given normal oil
> > changes.
> > > > Regards, Eric
> > > > 84FC35SBWL2
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Chuck,
> > > > > My 3208 is in the front rather than the back but your
> > experiences were much like
> > > mine
> > > > > while climbing mountain passes in Colorado. Not sure you
> can
> > expect any lower
> > > > > temperatures than what you're getting in hot summer
> weather.
> > I found on my coach
> > > > that
> > > > > it helps some to gear down as your speed drops off to
keep
> > RPM's up so the fan
> > > cools
> > > > > better and the engine load is reduced.
> > > > > Regards, Eric
> > > > > 84FC35SBWL2
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "williamcharrison"
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just came back from a long trip and noticed that at
every
> > extended
> > > > > > grade climb the temp gauge would start climbing toward
> 220.
> > > > > > It never reached 220 but the level increase alarms me.
I
> > have
> > > > > > cleaned the radiator and put new belts on all around.
The
> > oil temp
> > > > > > also climbs to about 230 (though I don't know what the
> > danger level
> > > > > > is). The thermostat was replaced before my first trip
> this
> > year
> > > > > > and I had no similar problems, but then the temperature
> > was in the 70's
> > > > > > and on the last trip it was in the 90's.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chuck Harrison
> > > > > > Akron, Ohio
> > > > > > 90SP36
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date:
8/9/2006
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Jeff Miller]

No.

With the 250hp in '84, there were some high-ambient-
temp/towing/mountain issues with transmission temperatures, BB
recognized this and offered an upgrade to an external trans cooler like
the '87-'89 had, ... abandoning the in-radiator cooler and adding the
new one to the outlet hose from the radiator.

Running Allison Transynd (synthetic) or Mobil 1 synthetic will lower
transmission temps, it is better at carrying the heat away from the
transmission. For the transmissions with internal retarders I consider
it a must, ... but that's me.

Many people have no problems running with a toad and running normal
thransmission temperatures, and the 4.89:1 gears are short enough that
the RPMs are kept fairly high. If you end up with low RPMs and torque-
converter out of lockup for extended periods, you will see higher temps.

The '84-up models have a transmission temperature gauge, makes it
easier to watch.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw"
wrote:
>
>
> If I read the suggestions correctly, in an FC with the 4.88 gears
> and towing something an auxillary trany cooler would almost be a
> must.
>
> Gardner Almost a be.

[Jeff Miller]

The turbo engine could use a tranny cooler in more extreme
conditions, but I felt that the cooler installation in Ernie's
old 'bird, an air/oil cooler on the bottom surface of the RF
compartment with a rock-guard was an excellent addition on the outlet
of the radiator-cooler. With the 250hp, 4.63:1 gears, towing, and a
lead-foot I never saw alarming temperatures in that rig running 15psi
boost on any mountain I could find. The airflow under that
compartment is excellent, and high-pressure (high-density), enough
that you'll notice the foam insulation is eroded away on those
compartments in many coaches. The air there is pressurized by the air
trying to get around the front of the moving coach, and having to
squeeze between the ground and bumper. The differential in speed
between the coach and the road makes the air quite turbulent, also
good for cooling.

Try synthetic fluids also, most people on RV forums agree that it
runs cooler in automatic transmissions.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Johnson"
wrote:
>
> Hello Ernie & Company,
> I appreciate all the suggestions on installing a separate
transmission cooler. From the
> website Tom recommended as cooler source they recommend a two pass
cooler w/
> dimensions of 22"X24"X1-1/2" plus a fan. There is quite a bit of
space in between frame
> rails about 1/2 way back if you mount it in a horizontal
orientation above the drive shaft
> and in front of retarder. Don't understand comments about the
rediline compartment.
> You guys thinking to cut the compartment walls away and use the
space for the cooler?
> Regards, Eric
> 84FC35SBWL2
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> >
> > I believe the rediline was still in my FC. That is an excellent
place for
> > another air intake and you Cat would love you for the
modification.
> >
> > Ernie Ekberg
> > 83 PT40
> > Livingston, Montana
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Gardner Yeaw]

Jeff,
Thanks. I am very green around the edges and as a result I want
to be sure I don't damage anything (like the tranny) out of
ignorance. Your input is appreciated very much.

Gardner..Real close to a BE.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
wrote:
>
> No.
>
> With the 250hp in '84, there were some high-ambient-
> temp/towing/mountain issues with transmission temperatures, BB
> recognized this and offered an upgrade to an external trans cooler
like
> the '87-'89 had, ... abandoning the in-radiator cooler and adding
the
> new one to the outlet hose from the radiator.
>
> Running Allison Transynd (synthetic) or Mobil 1 synthetic will
lower
> transmission temps, it is better at carrying the heat away from
the
> transmission. For the transmissions with internal retarders I
consider
> it a must, ... but that's me.
>
> Many people have no problems running with a toad and running
normal
> thransmission temperatures, and the 4.89:1 gears are short enough
that
> the RPMs are kept fairly high. If you end up with low RPMs and
torque-
> converter out of lockup for extended periods, you will see higher
temps.
>
> The '84-up models have a transmission temperature gauge, makes it
> easier to watch.
>
> - Jeff Miller
> in Holland, MI
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gardner Yeaw"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If I read the suggestions correctly, in an FC with the 4.88
gears
> > and towing something an auxillary trany cooler would almost be a
> > must.
> >
> > Gardner Almost a be.
>