Classic ZF trouble..?? 87FC35

[one_dusty_hoot]

I have started the 3208 with a screwdriver at the starter solenoid.
Be sure you are in neutral, key on, brake on, this will by-pass the
start circuit wiring.

Don't know if there is or is not another relay. Do you have a wiring
diagram, schematic?

Say could the ZF be in neutral with a lock out on strart? Just an
idea, I don't know how to confirm. Maybe that low voltage again.
Bob Janes

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here are a
> couple of other thing I know.
> 1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
> 2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've just
> found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel that
> are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
> 3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set of
> breakers.
> 4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
> stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.
>
> All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition key.
> Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I
found??
> Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
> activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
> come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another relay??
>
> Thanks for your ideas!!
> Alan Johnson
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
> wrote:
> >
> > Alan,
> > You need to know why you only have 7.5 VDC
> > Start at the battery, check all connections, check with a meter.
> > Measure across each battery, then the total voltage of the two in
> > series. Could you have a defective battery? Maybe a bad ground?
> > 7.5 V may not cause the starter solenoid to operate, or the fuel
> shut-
> > off solenoid fro that matter.
> > You find this and you probably will find the transmisson works
> fine.
> >
> > Bob Janes, '87FC35, Greenville, SC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan,
> > >
> > > Not trying to simplify your problem, But I would try the easy
> > stuff
> > > first. Check, the Neutral button, the Anti/Theft switch on
> the
> > > dash, and the 12 volt master shut off.
> > >
> > > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 5pm Monday update:
> > > >
> > > > I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely
> > helpful.
> > > > We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control
> module
> > > > wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I could
> > > jumper
> > > > it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was
> > anxious
> > > > to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so my
> > > > neighbors don't get upset).
> > > >
> > > > I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
> > > > transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months i've
> > owned
> > > > it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready to
> > > > relocate it to my back yard.
> > > >
> > > > Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my
> front
> > > > load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts
> out
> > of
> > > > it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently
> bypassed
> > > > this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there
> > another
> > > > ignition relay somewhere?
> > > >
> > > > Ideas?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Alan Johnson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a
> check.
> > > > > Gregory O'Connor
> > > > > 94ptRomolandCa
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem
of
> > not
> > > > > going
> > > > > > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately and
> now
> > > it
> > > > > > won't move. **One potential variation is that I noticed
> my
> > > > > > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly. At
> > idle,
> > > > > > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes
> it's
> > a
> > > > > > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But I
> > don't
> > > > know
> > > > > > if there is a connection between what my tach registers
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > trans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this. I
> > have
> > > > > > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to be
> in
> > > tact
> > > > > and
> > > > > > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential
> problem
> > > and
> > > > > > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found the
> fix
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find the
> ZF
> > > > power
> > > > > > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control
module.
> It
> > > is
> > > > > > located underneath the push button gear selectors behind
a
> > > > panel.
> > > > > > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of wires
> > going
> > > > into
> > > > > > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has
> experience
> > > with
> > > > > > this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What does
> it
> > > look
> > > > > > like?)
> > > > > > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am
anticipating
> no
> > > > real
> > > > > > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > > > > > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the fix
> > > > instructs
> > > > > > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something I
> can
> > > > get
> > > > > > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > > Alan Johnson
> > > > > > 87FC35
> > > > > > Dallas, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Tom Warner]

I would strongly urge you to NOT do this unless you have the diagrams
for the dash and chassis for your particular coach. Lifting the dash
can get you into more trouble then you started with if you start
straining wires.

Troubleshooting these problems is easy if you understand how the
circuits work. I sent Alan a diagram I had that traces the starting
circuit both to the starter and the fuel solenoid so that it is easy
to trace this problem pin by pin.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40

At 09:53 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>Alan,
>
>Another intermittant troubled area is the multi-pin round twist lock
>wire connectors. They are located under the main dash panel. There
>are four or five of these connectors. The wires from the ignition
>key switch go directly to one of them on the far right side. These
>pins carry a lot of current and they tarnish and become
>intermittent.
>Use electronic contact cleaner, the main dash must be lifted,
>careful here lots of wires, gages and switches.
>A tipical symtom is that the dash warning lights will not glow and
>The buzzers do not sound with the Key turned "On" .
>
>Could also be the ignition switch, solenoid, or a starting ground.
>
>Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, dspithaler@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > Alan This is may not be your trouble but two years mine would
>not start &
> > after a week of looking there was a small wire corroded off at
>the terminal
> > to a solenoid at the starter.It just fell off when I touched it.
> > Don
> > 89 SP 36'
> > Butler, PA
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here are a
> > couple of other thing I know.
> > 1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
> > 2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've just
> > found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel
>that
> > are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
> > 3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set of
> > breakers.
> > 4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
> > stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.
> >
> > All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition key.
> > Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I
>found??
> > Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
> > activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
> > come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another relay??
> >
> > Thanks for your ideas!!
> > Alan Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[one_dusty_hoot]

Alan, According to drawing ZF-1255157

From a 11 pin plug:
Pin #5 (blk/yel) gets voltage from a 20A breaker of the ignition
circuit. I would think this is a supply voltage for the box.

Pin #4 (red) supplies voltage directly to the starter solenoid.

Pin #9 (red) comes directly from the ignition switch.

Sooo.. You should have 12V on pin 9 when you turn the ignition key
to "start". And... This should come out of the box on Pin # 4.

If you have it on pin #4 and not pin #5, something inside the box,
(relay)?? or control from another switch.

Pin #2 is shown as ground, no ground here could cause problems.

Pin #2 would/should provide a good ground referrence for checking
voltages in and around the ZF box.

Just theory suggestions, no practical experience her.
Bob Janes

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
wrote:
>
> I have started the 3208 with a screwdriver at the starter solenoid.
> Be sure you are in neutral, key on, brake on, this will by-pass the
> start circuit wiring.
>
> Don't know if there is or is not another relay. Do you have a wiring
> diagram, schematic?
>
> Say could the ZF be in neutral with a lock out on strart? Just an
> idea, I don't know how to confirm. Maybe that low voltage again.
> Bob Janes
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here are
a
> > couple of other thing I know.
> > 1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
> > 2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've just
> > found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel
that
> > are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
> > 3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set of
> > breakers.
> > 4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
> > stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.
> >
> > All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition
key.
> > Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I
> found??
> > Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
> > activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
> > come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another relay??
> >
> > Thanks for your ideas!!
> > Alan Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Alan,
> > > You need to know why you only have 7.5 VDC
> > > Start at the battery, check all connections, check with a meter.
> > > Measure across each battery, then the total voltage of the two
in
> > > series. Could you have a defective battery? Maybe a bad ground?
> > > 7.5 V may not cause the starter solenoid to operate, or the
fuel
> > shut-
> > > off solenoid fro that matter.
> > > You find this and you probably will find the transmisson works
> > fine.
> > >
> > > Bob Janes, '87FC35, Greenville, SC
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Alan,
> > > >
> > > > Not trying to simplify your problem, But I would try the
easy
> > > stuff
> > > > first. Check, the Neutral button, the Anti/Theft switch
on
> > the
> > > > dash, and the 12 volt master shut off.
> > > >
> > > > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"

> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 5pm Monday update:
> > > > >
> > > > > I spoke to Dan at ZF trans in Chicago. He was extremely
> > > helpful.
> > > > > We verified I do have low voltage. (7.5v) On my control
> > module
> > > > > wiring harness, pin #19 is the hot wire. He told me I
could
> > > > jumper
> > > > > it from a 12 volt source until I locate my problem. I was
> > > anxious
> > > > > to try this to move my coach from in front of my house (so
my
> > > > > neighbors don't get upset).
> > > > >
> > > > > I started the coach, applied 12 volts to pin #19 and the
> > > > > transmission engages better than it has in the 2 months
i've
> > > owned
> > > > > it. So, I turn it off. Put a few things up and get ready
to
> > > > > relocate it to my back yard.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now the coach won't turn over at all. I also discovered my
> > front
> > > > > load panel has a 75amp relay. I was only getting 7.5 volts
> > out
> > > of
> > > > > it to my lower row of circuit breakers. I subsequently
> > bypassed
> > > > > this relay, but the coach still won't turn over. Is there
> > > another
> > > > > ignition relay somewhere?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideas?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Alan Johnson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan, the other half of power supply is ground. Worth a
> > check.
> > > > > > Gregory O'Connor
> > > > > > 94ptRomolandCa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
> >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems I am experiencing the classic ZF trans problem
> of
> > > not
> > > > > > going
> > > > > > > into gear. It has been kind of slow engaging lately
and
> > now
> > > > it
> > > > > > > won't move. **One potential variation is that I
noticed
> > my
> > > > > > > tachometer does not seem to be registering properly.
At
> > > idle,
> > > > > > > sometimes it was reading around 1500 rpm, and sometimes
> > it's
> > > a
> > > > > > > little irratic. (The engine is idling normally.) But
I
> > > don't
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > if there is a connection between what my tach registers
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > trans.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So i've read all the posts here I can find about this.
I
> > > have
> > > > > > > located my throttle position sensor and it appears to
be
> > in
> > > > tact
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > functioning. I'm now on to the next thing potential
> > problem
> > > > and
> > > > > > > that is a the low voltage problem. I have also found
the
> > fix
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > database. The fix says to check the voltage and find
the
> > ZF
> > > > > power
> > > > > > > supply. I've found what appears to be ZF control
> module.
> > It
> > > > is
> > > > > > > located underneath the push button gear selectors
behind
> a
> > > > > panel.
> > > > > > > It has a large connector on top of it with lots of
wires
> > > going
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > it. I HAVE NOT found what might be the power supply.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So I've got a couple of questions if any one has
> > experience
> > > > with
> > > > > > > this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Where might I look for this power supply. (What
does
> > it
> > > > look
> > > > > > > like?)
> > > > > > > 2. When I find it, I can use a Fluke, so I am
> anticipating
> > no
> > > > > real
> > > > > > > problems in getting to checking voltage..?? Yes?
> > > > > > > 3. If I do find a problem with the power supply, the
fix
> > > > > instructs
> > > > > > > me to "retrofit a new power supply". Is this something
I
> > can
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > from BB or ZF?? Or something I can pick up at Napa??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > > > Alan Johnson
> > > > > > > 87FC35
> > > > > > > Dallas, TX
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[pattypape]

Tom,

What kind of trouble did you experience in changing a gauge,
gauge pilot lamp, Also the dash must be removed to replace the
headlight switch, rocker switch or numerous other parts.

Bill 88 FC Michigan






--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> I would strongly urge you to NOT do this unless you have the
diagrams
> for the dash and chassis for your particular coach. Lifting the
dash
> can get you into more trouble then you started with if you start
> straining wires.
>
> Troubleshooting these problems is easy if you understand how the
> circuits work. I sent Alan a diagram I had that traces the
starting
> circuit both to the starter and the fuel solenoid so that it is
easy
> to trace this problem pin by pin.
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1985 PT 40
>
> At 09:53 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
> >Alan,
> >
> >Another intermittant troubled area is the multi-pin round twist
lock
> >wire connectors. They are located under the main dash panel. There
> >are four or five of these connectors. The wires from the ignition
> >key switch go directly to one of them on the far right side. These
> >pins carry a lot of current and they tarnish and become
> >intermittent.
> >Use electronic contact cleaner, the main dash must be lifted,
> >careful here lots of wires, gages and switches.
> >A tipical symtom is that the dash warning lights will not glow
and
> >The buzzers do not sound with the Key turned "On" .
> >
> >Could also be the ignition switch, solenoid, or a starting ground.
> >
> >Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, dspithaler@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan This is may not be your trouble but two years mine
would
> >not start &
> > > after a week of looking there was a small wire corroded off at
> >the terminal
> > > to a solenoid at the starter.It just fell off when I touched
it.
> > > Don
> > > 89 SP 36'
> > > Butler, PA
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I agree about finding out why I'm only getting 7.5vdc. Here
are a
> > > couple of other thing I know.
> > > 1. I've got 12v on my batteries (charged new t105s)
> > > 2. I've got 12v on my non-ignition circuits. ...so far I've
just
> > > found the one set of breakers on my lower front breaker panel
> >that
> > > are on the 75amp relay coming off the ignition.
> > > 3. I by-passed that relay and now i'm getting 12v to that set
of
> > > breakers.
> > > 4. The coach still won't start. I have checked the "normal"
> > > stuff. ...Neutral, a/t switch, 12v coach switch.
> > >
> > > All this and nothing at all happens when I turn the ignition
key.
> > > Is there another relay somewhere other than the 75amp one I
> >found??
> > > Also, there are two wires coming into that relay that should
> > > activate it. I'm not sure I'm getting power to those. Do those
> > > come directly off the ignition switch or perhaps another
relay??
> > >
> > > Thanks for your ideas!!
> > > Alan Johnson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Jeff Miller]

My experience with the smaller panels on the '87-'89 FC is that it us
much easier than the earlier dashes. Add to that the smaller wheel
and tilt-telescoping steering, and longer bundled wires and it is
pretty decent. I've removed several, had no problems. Do try to keep
the nylon washers that are between the screw heads and the dash
panel, and only tighten until contact is made, gravity does most of
the holding on these dash panels.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Tom,
>
> What kind of trouble did you experience in changing a gauge,
> gauge pilot lamp, Also the dash must be removed to replace the
> headlight switch, rocker switch or numerous other parts.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan