New Bird

[Richard Hayden]

You described the same symptom that I had an our last bird, an '81 FC31. I
spent over $4K fighting this "handling issue". I learned early on that the "dog
bone" or pan hard rod ends were suspect but they are apparently hard to look at
or inspect so they didn't get fixed or even looked at. I had it to a alignment
shop twice, every thing was "fine". I installed a Super Steer shock that didn't
help very much. Anyway, I wouldn't wait too long, unless you have lots of $$ to
play this game, to insist that the pan hard rod ends get checked, both front and
rear. I think you will save time and bucks if you do it now. It is a common
problem and often over looked or wrongly diagnosed.

Good luck.

Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] New Bird


Don, I don't think that steering is normal. How was it a fight to bring it
back on track?

Dan
81FCRB33
----- Original Message -----
From: w3www2oo
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] New Bird

Well, I finally did it and I'm now an offical BB owner. Picked her
(87FC35) up over the weekend and survived the maiden voyage.

Now the questions begin: Please Help!!!

Actually, only one is of any importance. The tracking on her seems a
bit strange, but it could just be me. Cruising at about 60-65MPH up
US 27 in Central FL, I had an issue that felt like a gust of wind hit
me and was pushing me off the road. It was a fight to bring it back
on track. ( i think it was referred to in a previous post
as "Darting"). I'm sure you know, one of those that causes your
breathing to stop. Then it happened again, and it was dead calm out.
I also noticed the steering was a bit sloppy. It seemed to Wander
around a bit. The tires are new Michlein 12R x 22.5 XRZs (might be a
problem if they are not as good as XR2s).

I have read several previous posts regarding the front end issues and
don't know which is most likely. The coach has 104K miles on it with
the last alignment done at approximately 50K. Could it be the King
Pin lubrication, steering box, shocks or what or all. Where should I
concentrate first?

At least the ZF worked well. It almost snapped my neck a few times
shifting and talk about power. I was not expecting that kind of
acceleration out of a 34,000 pound vehicle. Everything seemed to
function fine based on a newbies standpoint. Temps stayed low
(engine/transmission wise), even on a 95 degree day. My co-pilot
would tend to disagree concerning the interior temps though.

Anyhow, we are looking forward to meeting all of you fine folks at
the RIV. I just need to get my act together and sign up, or figure
out how to.

Don & Judy Mohney
87FC35

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: 9/15/2006

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joe Hagan]

Don:

As many on the forum would likely advise, never ignore a "perhaps I'm
just over-reacting." If it got your attention, check it out - really. It
could be any number of things. We have an old saying in the aviation
field - if something does not feel right, deal with it on the ground
("the takeoff is optional - the landing is mandatory.") [] My
criteria with steering wheel play on the buses I drive is if there is
more than 4 inches of play in a 22" steering wheel, that bus doesn't go
with me until it has been repaired. (I drive a lot of two-lane roads in
the Utah mountains - some with little or no shoulder - so it's a little
more crtitical to be on the mark.

There is good help on this forum, you'll find it instructive and
helpful. As a Wannabe, I have a much keener insight of the "Birds." Good
luck and enjoy your new bird.

Joe (Pappy) Hagan
St. George, UT
Wannabe





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "w3www2oo" wrote:
>
> Thank you all for the kind words and suggestions. I'll look into all
> that was mentioned.
>
> Some of what I'm going through could be over reacting. But, I've
> noticed when you turn 60, that's getting to be quite common.
The
> only thing that convinced me that there may be a problem ( I failed to
> mention this part) was when turning a slow (5-10+/- mph) sharp corner,
> the steering wheel starts to shake or oscillate. Sometime this week
> I'll check the bolts, drag link and look for loose parts.
>
> Afterwards, I'll check things out with a quick "shake down" run up to
> River Ranch this weekend.
>
> Don & Judy Mohney
> Jensen Beach, FL
> 87FC35
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

Pappy- your expertise in driving busses can help us all. If you get a chance
tell me how you drive in snow- pros and cons. Thanks,

Ernie Ekberg
83 PT40
Livingston, Montana maybe having to drive in snow going home in Dec to
Texas



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[w3www2oo]

Dan,

It was quite an experience. Just glad I was on a lightly traveled 4
lane road with an 8-10' apron. It just kept moving on to the right
and did not want to recover or respond. Not a quick push, such as
wind. I have owned a couple of much lighter Class A 35&38' coaches
and am quite familiar (not comfortable) with being pushed around.
This was much different. Needless to say, after that I took it very
easy the rest of the way.

I've had some excellent feed back, thanks to this group, and will
investigate everything, especially the pan hard bolts and bushings.


Don Mohney
Jensen Beach, FL
87FC35SB





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan"
wrote:
>
> Don, I don't think that steering is normal. How was it a fight to
bring it back on track?
>
> Dan
> 81FCRB33
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: w3www2oo
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:44 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] New Bird
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date:
9/15/2006
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Pete Masterson]

The Panhard rod is named after Rene Panhard who founded the Panhard
et Levassor automobile company with Emile Levassor in 1890. His
automobiles won numerous races from 1895 to 1903 during which the
original Panhard rod (or track bar) was developed. This suspension
component provides lateral location of the axle, while allowing
vertical movement of the wheels, but restricting side to side
movement. It runs parallel to the rear axle, connecting one end on
the axle with the other end attached to the chassis on the opposite
side of the vehicle. (It really doesn't matter if it runs left to
right or right to left.) In general, the longer the rod, the more
desirable it is as it forces vertical movement in an arc. There are
other suspension designs that do not use Panhard rods, but they are
quite common on 'live axle' suspension designs.

So, please, it is not a "pan hard" rod, but a Panhard rod.

Thanks.

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Bluebird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA




On Sep 19, 2006, at 2:35 PM, w3www2oo wrote:

> <snip> especially the pan hard bolts and bushings.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joe Hagan]

Ernie:

Im not sure about "expertise," however I do have a little experience.
The PT series 40' - 43' is as close to the bus type vehicles I have
driven over the years. Snow is a multi-faceted creature, fluffy, wet,
dry, frozen, slush - all a result of temperature (both ambient and road
temperatures). Usually, the fuel tanks are behind the front axle - full
tanks help with weight distribution (more weight on front tires) and
assist in stabilized steering and preventing front wheel lock-up on
slippery surfaces (non-ABS systems).

The first and obvious caution in snow is - slow down, drive for
conditions, both road surface and traffic conditions. In dry snow
situations, visibility is usually a challenge. It could be snowing
(20-25 degress F) and the road is still basically dry - the snow is
blowing-off the road by passing vehicles thus creating a restricted
visibility situation. These conditions can quickly turn to ice - snow
turns to water from heat of tires, then freezes due to below freezing
road temperatures. Snow can usually be negotiated by being cautious,
allow extra room, stayed informed as to road condtions by planning
ahead. Ice is a different animal. My solution to driving on ice covered
roads - park it. Basic drivings skills apply to MH/bus-type vehicles -
no sudden moves, think of slow motion, every move gradual where
possible.

Granted, deflating drive-axle tires slightly might enhance traction a
bit, but it is not worth it. When driving conditions improve, you have
to re-inflate them (whoops, forgot to do it). Then, on duals, there is
the danger of tire rub. If traction is that much of a concern, chain-up.
Chaining-up a MH means that the trip you are involved in is absolutely
necessary and essential. Again, consider a parking lot unless you are
well-versed in wrapping chains on your drives. Is there sufficient
wheel-well clearance to avoid body damage?

Visibility restrictions are so very important - yours and the other
motorists. Maintain w/shield wipers, mirrors kept as clean and
uncluttered as possible, efficient defrosters, headlights, rear lights,
turn signals and marker lamps kept clean - both the outside and inside
of the lenses. I have a rule, like many of us do, "wipers on - lights
on." This helps other drivers see you when their windshield and mirror
are cover with moisture and/or dirt. I also apply this rule on two-lane
roads - surprising how many people do not see a truck, bus or motorhome
in daylight - particularly when they (the oncoming motorist) are passing
on a two lane road. Lights on. In fact many states (Arizona) have made
it a state law for all vehicles, on two lane roads, to turn on
headlights.

Keep in mind crosswinds on slippery roads - there's a lot of square feet
of coach siding catching that wind - dry roads as well. Really, all
comes down to common sense and safe driving practices. When it is
snowing, if it's in the forecast or has already dumped, allow lots of
time. I can remember many times being in situations where to roads are
passable but traffic is backed-up for miles because of accidents. I
mentioned the advantages of getting some weight on the front-end
(pushers), don't forget that weight comes into play when trying to stop
- especially on snow-covered and wet roads - trade offs.

Sorry, didn't mean to rattle on. Truth-be-known - I usually lay-off for
the winter months to avoid these elements although I occasionally get to
see if I take my own advice. The higher elevations west of the Rockies
can bring snow at the wink of an eye. Hope to hear from those on the
forum who do get to drive in snow conditions.

Regards,
Joe (Pappy) Hagan
St. George, UT
Wannabe



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Pappy- your expertise in driving busses can help us all. If you get a
chance
> tell me how you drive in snow- pros and cons. Thanks,
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83 PT40
> Livingston, Montana maybe having to drive in snow going home in Dec
to
> Texas
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[erniecarpet@...]

Thanks Pappy. When I leave here in Montana, will not have a clock to punch.
All my fuel tanks and water will be full, just in case I have to park it for a
while.

Ernie Ekberg
83 PT40
Livingston, Montana- going to install some Pex plumbing tubing this weekend.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[patticake592000]

I think CCW has hit the nail on the head. I feel it is beautiful
(this coming from someone with a purple coach and a new Edsel).
If I had a spare mil, I would be ordering it tomorrow.
My wife wants different exterior colors though!
Macy, would you take a low mileage Edsel in trade.


Steve Gureasko
90WBWL40 Jus Chillin
Ponchatoula, La. on the road to Qsite

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

I was doing some Factory warranty work when I was out on the road and that
was on a M 380. While repairing a broken ground and replacing a pneumatic
valve that was defective. A couple drove by and stopped and said " That is
a beautiful Motor Home! What is it?" It was explained that it was a
Bluebird Wanderlodge then the couple said, "we thought so but was not sure,
don't the Wanderlodge's have a railing on top?"

Well, it is nice to see that someone finally took note of the Signature
trait of the Bluebird Wanderlodge and re installed a resemblance of the age
old tradition of the "goat rail" on top of this new addition to the
Wanderlodge line. There will be no problem telling a Bird going down the
road now or espying one from the road when parked in an RV park.

Well done to the crew at CCW Bluebird Wanderlodge division. Please don't
forget to include a set of schematics with each Coach. I am looking forward
to seeing how you integrated the multiplexing and divided it among the
separate systems in the Coach and sort of break out panels were used. Sure
would be nice from a diagnostician's point of view to have a touch screen
diagnostic program built in that would at least localize any given problem,
then isolate the problem to an area. Ah but that would be dreaming of
course? To have a 3 hour diagnostic problem taken down to a 30 or 45 minute
in and out and the customer is down the road instead of being admired by
passersby on the side of it.

It will also be nice to compile a lit of the high hitters of down time so
the customer can plan for that at some future time and have the knowledge
needed to be able to prioritize the preventative maint schedule to minimize
the down time, and we as owners are familiar with down time but as a united
group is gaining the knowledge to do just that with the older units.

Again, kudos to the design team, the interior team, the maintenance team
and most of all the team on the floor putting all the parts together and
with the age old pride that is expected from the finest in the world. You
truly are World Class!!

>

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma

[pattypape]

Ralph,

I did see two hefty alternators, atleast a 200+amp and a 400+ amp
for the all electric coach.

Bill 88 FC with a 160 amp alternator



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
wrote:
>
> I was doing some Factory warranty work when I was out on the road
and that
> was on a M 380. While repairing a broken ground and replacing a
pneumatic
> valve that was defective. A couple drove by and stopped and said "
That is
> a beautiful Motor Home! What is it?" It was explained that it was a
> Bluebird Wanderlodge then the couple said, "we thought so but was
not sure,
> don't the Wanderlodge's have a railing on top?"
>
> Well, it is nice to see that someone finally took note of the
Signature
> trait of the Bluebird Wanderlodge and re installed a resemblance of
the age
> old tradition of the "goat rail" on top of this new addition to the
> Wanderlodge line. There will be no problem telling a Bird going
down the
> road now or espying one from the road when parked in an RV park.
>
> Well done to the crew at CCW Bluebird Wanderlodge division. Please
don't
> forget to include a set of schematics with each Coach. I am looking
forward
> to seeing how you integrated the multiplexing and divided it among
the
> separate systems in the Coach and sort of break out panels were
used. Sure
> would be nice from a diagnostician's point of view to have a touch
screen
> diagnostic program built in that would at least localize any given
problem,
> then isolate the problem to an area. Ah but that would be dreaming
of
> course? To have a 3 hour diagnostic problem taken down to a 30 or
45 minute
> in and out and the customer is down the road instead of being
admired by
> passersby on the side of it.
>
> It will also be nice to compile a lit of the high hitters of down
time so
> the customer can plan for that at some future time and have the
knowledge
> needed to be able to prioritize the preventative maint schedule to
minimize
> the down time, and we as owners are familiar with down time but as
a united
> group is gaining the knowledge to do just that with the older units.
>
> Again, kudos to the design team, the interior team, the maintenance
team
> and most of all the team on the floor putting all the parts
together and
> with the age old pride that is expected from the finest in the
world. You
> truly are World Class!!
>
> >
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> 84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
> Duncan, Oklahoma
>