very On-Topic: the question of the archives

[Jo-Ski]

I just read the announcement about the thousands of archives and posts being
lost to Ernie's new free Wanderlodge forum and accessible only via Bruce's new
pay/profit forum. I am not trying to start another long "OT" thread or a "range
war," but this concerns the very heart of the the "on-topic" discussions of this
forum--its rich store of technical archives.

Ernie, I realize that on this subject, you wrote me the following some days ago:
"What I had in mind was that instead of sending someone packing when they ask a
question- to go look it up- to have folks get back to the old way we did stuff--
we all jumped in and answered them."

I really respect what you're saying, Ernie, and that's the way your new forum is
wonderfully operating, but I am also thinking about all the valuable,
multi-page, mini-technical treatises that the expert contributers have submitted
over the past 4 years--many in answer to what seemed like simple questions, but
turned out to be a lot more involved. Please see Jeff Miller's elegant
statements on this below.

I would strongly urge anyone considering joining the pay/profit Wanderlodge site
to withhold your minimum $20 dues until the question of the old Yahoo archives
is settled fairly. Those archives should be the property of both Bruce's new
pay/profit forum and Ernie's new free forum for the following eloquent reasons,
as explained by Jeff Miller:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Miller" <synrgdsl@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [Wanderlodge] Archives and permissions

> I know very little about copyright law, it shares real-estate with
> the patent office but I somehow never had much interest in that area
> of law. It does seem to me from what little I have read however that
> postings and submissions to this website remain the property of the
> author, and any use of such would require permission of the
> author/owner. This is apparently also an area that is currently
> developing in case law, ... However if these submissions were
> harvested and their access limited, this would not fit the intended
> purpose of these submissions. If free access remains, I don't see
> where anyone would raise a legal issue.
>
> In any event, it seems that since I and many others have spent
> hundreds (thousands, but don't tell my wife) of hours reading,
> researching, and submitting to this forum with the purpose of helping
> other BlueBird Wanderlodge owners freely, and in good faith, that
> this information would remain the property of its authors and the
> collective membership which has created it. This would in my opinion
> mean that Bruce and Ernie will likely both have complete access to
> the archives and past postings in our behalf.
Again, I ask anyone considering paying the dues for the pay/profit forum to
withhold your dues until this is guaranteed settled fairly and confirmed to us
by the leadership of Ernie's free forum.

Jo-Ski
"The Bird Abides"
'83-FC 35 RB
Blaine, WA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> >
> >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wanderlodge/ is being closed by
> >the "offical yahoo site owner", and turned into a pay required
site,
> >on a automatic link redirect of the previous main link of
> >http://www.wanderlodge.org . All the thousands of previous
> >contributer/member posts, files, and links will be lost from the
yahoo
> >free site, onto to the new pay/profit site.
> >
> >Several new free sites on yahoo have been opened to counteract this
> >seizure of posts and links. A search on "wanderlodge" will locate
the
> >new free sites for Wanderlodge owners and potential owners.

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

Or one could do as I am at this very moment. Hire Mr. Miller to come to your
location and have him deal with all the issues that need attention on YOUR
personal 'bird.
Very reasonable rates, and he knows every thing about 'birds.
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Jo-Ski
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Wanderlodge@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:41 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] very On-Topic: the question of the archives


I just read the announcement about the thousands of archives and posts being
lost to Ernie's new free Wanderlodge forum and accessible only via Bruce's new
pay/profit forum. I am not trying to start another long "OT" thread or a "range
war," but this concerns the very heart of the the "on-topic" discussions of this
forum--its rich store of technical archives.

Ernie, I realize that on this subject, you wrote me the following some days
ago: "What I had in mind was that instead of sending someone packing when they
ask a question- to go look it up- to have folks get back to the old way we did
stuff-- we all jumped in and answered them."

I really respect what you're saying, Ernie, and that's the way your new forum
is wonderfully operating, but I am also thinking about all the valuable,
multi-page, mini-technical treatises that the expert contributers have submitted
over the past 4 years--many in answer to what seemed like simple questions, but
turned out to be a lot more involved. Please see Jeff Miller's elegant
statements on this below.

I would strongly urge anyone considering joining the pay/profit Wanderlodge
site to withhold your minimum $20 dues until the question of the old Yahoo
archives is settled fairly. Those archives should be the property of both
Bruce's new pay/profit forum and Ernie's new free forum for the following
eloquent reasons, as explained by Jeff Miller:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Miller" <synrgdsl@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [Wanderlodge] Archives and permissions

> I know very little about copyright law, it shares real-estate with
> the patent office but I somehow never had much interest in that area
> of law. It does seem to me from what little I have read however that
> postings and submissions to this website remain the property of the
> author, and any use of such would require permission of the
> author/owner. This is apparently also an area that is currently
> developing in case law, ... However if these submissions were
> harvested and their access limited, this would not fit the intended
> purpose of these submissions. If free access remains, I don't see
> where anyone would raise a legal issue.
>
> In any event, it seems that since I and many others have spent
> hundreds (thousands, but don't tell my wife) of hours reading,
> researching, and submitting to this forum with the purpose of helping
> other BlueBird Wanderlodge owners freely, and in good faith, that
> this information would remain the property of its authors and the
> collective membership which has created it. This would in my opinion
> mean that Bruce and Ernie will likely both have complete access to
> the archives and past postings in our behalf.
Again, I ask anyone considering paying the dues for the pay/profit forum to
withhold your dues until this is guaranteed settled fairly and confirmed to us
by the leadership of Ernie's free forum.

Jo-Ski
"The Bird Abides"
'83-FC 35 RB
Blaine, WA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> >
> >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wanderlodge/ is being closed by
> >the "offical yahoo site owner", and turned into a pay required
site,
> >on a automatic link redirect of the previous main link of
> >http://www.wanderlodge.org . All the thousands of previous
> >contributer/member posts, files, and links will be lost from the
yahoo
> >free site, onto to the new pay/profit site.
> >
> >Several new free sites on yahoo have been opened to counteract this
> >seizure of posts and links. A search on "wanderlodge" will locate
the
> >new free sites for Wanderlodge owners and potential owners.

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

Although I need to update it with the old forum being closed, the
current batch of forums and the archives you've mentioned are available
on this site or on my forums page at:
http://www.millercoachworks.com/Forums.html

- Jeff Miller
http://www.wanderlodge.net
http://www.millercoachworks.com


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jo-Ski" wrote:
> I just read the announcement about the thousands of archives and
posts being lost to Ernie's new free Wanderlodge forum and accessible
only via Bruce's new pay/profit forum <<snip>>

[Jo-Ski]

Hi, Jeff--

Well, that's wonderful if we really can access--FOR FREE--the thousands (it's
about 45,000 or so, right?) of archived messages of the old Yahoo forum from
Ernie's new forum. That would settle it fairly for me!

I just went to Ernie's WanderlodgeForum Website, but I did not find a way to
access the old Yahoo archives anywhere there--I looked in "Messages," "Files,"
and "Links," and "Databases."

What am I doing wrong, please?

Thx!

Jo-Ski
"The Bird Abides"
'83-FC 35 RB
Blaine, WA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: very On-Topic: the question of the archives



Although I need to update it with the old forum being closed, the
current batch of forums and the archives you've mentioned are available
on this site or on my forums page at:
http://www.millercoachworks.com/Forums.html

- Jeff Miller
http://www.wanderlodge.net
http://www.millercoachworks.com


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jo-Ski" wrote:
> I just read the announcement about the thousands of archives and
posts being lost to Ernie's new free Wanderlodge forum and accessible
only via Bruce's new pay/profit forum <<snip>>





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

http://tradingconnections.com/wlf/


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jo-Ski" wrote:
> Hi, Jeff--
>
> Well, that's wonderful if we really can access--FOR FREE--the
thousands (it's about 45,000 or so, right?) of archived messages of the
old Yahoo forum from Ernie's new forum. That would settle it fairly for
me!
>
> I just went to Ernie's WanderlodgeForum Website, but I did not find a
way to access the old Yahoo archives anywhere there--I looked
in "Messages," "Files," and "Links," and "Databases."
>
> What am I doing wrong, please?
>
> Thx!
>
> Jo-Ski\

[Dan Weaver]

Hi Jeff, the link doesn't work. I get the page where there is a
form for problem reporting, which I filled out. I think the problem
is that the original yahoo wanderlodge web site is closed, and I
used to link in from there.

From the connection page for the archive: "To search this message
archive, you must be a member of the Wanderlodge Forum, logged into
the forum, and follow the link found under Links"

The archive is a great tool. Can we get a link into the archives
from this new Yahooo Wanderlodge forum as well?

Thanks,
Dan Weaver


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
wrote:
>
> http://tradingconnections.com/wlf/
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jo-Ski"
wrote:
> > Hi, Jeff--
> >
> > Well, that's wonderful if we really can access--FOR FREE--the
> thousands (it's about 45,000 or so, right?) of archived messages
of the
> old Yahoo forum from Ernie's new forum. That would settle it
fairly for
> me!
> >
> > I just went to Ernie's WanderlodgeForum Website, but I did not
find a
> way to access the old Yahoo archives anywhere there--I looked
> in "Messages," "Files," and "Links," and "Databases."
> >
> > What am I doing wrong, please?
> >
> > Thx!
> >
> > Jo-Ski\