Low sulfur fuel and additives

[one_dusty_hoot]

Mike, Dan, That would be a 30% mix for the winter blend.
I doubt that the winter blend went South, maybe, I doubt it.
I just used it when the temps were in the teens which was
not often and if so for a short time. My mix was only around
7%, but it worked.

If you "slide" diesel or kerosene between your fingers, the
diesel, #2, felt slipreer (more slipery) Before Gunk we would
use kerosene in a pump sprayer to act as solvent to clean
grease off a motor, water hose spray down.

bob janes, greenville, sc

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Darst"
wrote:
>
> Yes Mike. After 23 years in the industry (Unocal 76) with a company
that had
> a few truckstops (100), I can vouch what you said. We blended 30%
#1 with
> 70% #2 to make winter blend. Mileage went down due to the lower Btu
of #1.
>
> dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
>
> >From: "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
> >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Low sulfur fuel and additives
> >Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:35:45 -0000
> >
> > >Have you ever tried running a gallon of Kerosene to 15 gallons of
> > >diesel to prevent anti-geling in cold weather?
> >
> >Seems to me if you have ever bought "winter blend" fuel in a very
cold
> >climate, you have already done something like that. Kerosene AKA
No1
> >Diesel AKA jet fuel is commonly blended with No2 diesel in the
winter
> >to produce the so-called anti-gelling fuel. Course I didn't read
that
> >in a book, I just watched them loading tankers in the winter, so I
> >could be wrong. However you can go read the Exxon FAQs to verify
> >that. Realistically, they are all part of the middle distillates
> >family of products. You can run your diesel on No1 and some
diesels
> >are even designed to run only on No1, however, kerosene has less
btus
> >of energy and less lubricity than No 2. Sounds kinda like ULSD now
> >that I think about it!! LOL!
> >
> >Mike Bulriss
> >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> >San Antonio, TX
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > <snip> "There are those that actually try things and those that
talk
> > > about things, I take the former path."
> > >
> > > Have you ever tried running a gallon of Kerosene to 15 gallons
of
> > > diesel to prevent anti-geling in cold weather?
> > >
> > > Have you pre-heated diesel piped around an exhaust system to
burn in
> > > a carbuerator?
> > > Curious bob janes, greenville, sc
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Believe what you want folks, I'm a cynic and choose to stay
with
> > > product my simple mind can accept. On the other hand I do have
a
> > > couple of spare engines on the pallet racking in the shop so I
might
> > > be a little more cavalier than most. Then there is the issue of
> > > accepting some companies claims about a cheap readily available
> > > solution at the expense of their fancy proprietary snake oil.
Not a
> > > surprise they would discredit the notion. We should remember
that
> > > diesels were invented and developed with vegetable oil in mind
as a
> > > fuel and they are a true multi fuel engine. There are those
that
> > > actually try things and those that talk about things, I take the
> > > former path.
> > > > One other thing, most of the forum have 3208s or 2 stroke
Detroits,
> > > good old engines that run on good old fuels. I like that black
> > > smoke. If I were using a state of the art 07emmission bad to
the
> > > bone catalytic equipped new fangled power plant, I might be a
little
> > > more concerned about fuel additives.
> > > > MH
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Tom Warner
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:53 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Low sulfur fuel and
additives
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike you are right this discussion has been around for a
long
> > > time
> > > > but appears to not be based on fact. Why would anyone want
to add
> > > > automatic transmission fluid to their expensive diesel
engine
> > > without
> > > > testing to prove that it will not harm the engine in any
way?
> > > Forum
> > > > members may want to read these and then decide.
> > > > http://www.diamonddiesel.com/fueladditives/ffaq-2.html
> > > >
> > > > Can automatic transmission fluid (ATF be added to the
diesel fuel
> > > to
> > > > increase lubricity and to help clean engine deposits?
> > > >
> > > > It is not a good practice and likely will cause far more
problems
> > > > than it could solve. Using ATF in this way is something of
> > > an "old
> > > > truckers tale" and has been used on everything from
Volkswagens
> > > to
> > > > Class 8 trucks. Another erroneous strategy is to add old or
new
> > > > engine oil for lubricity. The problem with
these "additives" is
> > > they
> > > > are specifically designed to resist high temperatures and
> > > burning. As
> > > > a result, if they are added to diesel fuel they leave
behind ash,
> > > > heavy metals, and other deposits that can easily cause
costly
> > > damage
> > > > to fuel injectors and other sensitive engine components.
The best
> > > > practice is to use quality diesel fuel additives like
Stanadyne's
> > > > Performance Formula. They are designed to clean and
lubricate
> > > engine
> > > > components without leaving behind residues that can be
hazardous
> > > to
> > > > your engine's health. The bottom line is, don't add
anything that
> > > is
> > > > not specifically designed to be combusted in the engine.
> > > >
> > > > http://dieselfuelsystems.com/faq.asp
> > > > Can I use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as a lubricant
in my
> > > fuel?
> > > > Since October 1993, some diesel end-users have tried adding
> > > automatic
> > > > transmission fluid (ATF) to diesel fuel to improve the
fuel's
> > > > lubricity. According to the U.S. Army's quarterly fuel and
> > > lubricant
> > > > bulletin (March 1994), laboratory testing using the Ball-on-
> > > cylinder
> > > > lubricity evaluation (BOCLE) had shown that the addition of
ATF
> > > to a
> > > > low sulfur fuel does not improve the fuel's lubricity
rating.
> > > > Moreover, the presence of ATF in fuel can adversely affect
other
> > > > performance properties of diesel fuel.
> > > >
> > > > Tom Warner
> > > > vernon center,ny
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > >
> > > > At 07:06 PM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >Lee,
> > > > >
> > > > >This has been discussed on many forums recently. Basically
as I
> > > > >understand it, it summarizes as this: the new ULSD fuel
has less
> > > > >lubricity, less aromatics and less fuel efficiency.
> > > > >
> > > > >Less lubricity for the older engines (defined in this case
as
> > > > >pre-2007) means you *will* need to find a good additive
package.
> > > One
> > > > >inexpensive way to add lubricity is to add plain old ATF
> > > (automatic
> > > > >transmission fluid) at each fill up. I have seen many
different
> > > > >estimates of how much, everywhere from 1qt to 1gal per 100
> > > gallons of
> > > > >fuel. Mike H., one of the forum's resident diesel gurus,
even
> > > > >mentioned up to 5% ATF, which seems pretty high to me.
Check with
> > > > >truck stops to see if any commercial additive packages for
the
> > > ULSD
> > > > >have hit their shelves yet. While there are claims that
fuel
> > > > >manufacturers have added additional lubricity additive
packages
> > > to the
> > > > >ULSD, one of our Lone Star Birds members who owns a heavy
diesel
> > > > >repair shop has said fuel pump manufacturers were
recommending
> > > adding
> > > > >lubricity additives even with the previous LSD fuel or they
> > > would not
> > > > >warrant the pumps. In any event, it seems clear that you
will
> > > need a
> > > > >lubricity agent to be safe.
> > > > >
> > > > >Less aromatics means less seal swelling which may
translate into
> > > fuel
> > > > >leaks on some engines. A high pressure fuel leak on a hot
engine
> > > is
> > > > >something I plan to keep a good eye out for when I have to
start
> > > > >buying the ULSD (still have LSD available around here so
far in
> > > spite
> > > > >of deadlines). I have heard rumors that some Mercedes and
Cummins
> > > > >forums have already reported fuel leaks as a problem, but
that
> > > could
> > > > >be more good old internet urban legends than fact. Find a
> > > discussion
> > > > >group specific to your engine, but watch your individual
engine
> > > to be
> > > > >sure.
> > > > >
> > > > >Less fuel efficiency in the neighborhood of 1.2% has been
> > > reported
> > > > >(see
> > > > >http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-
comm/info-
> > > notices/2006/in200622.pdf)
> > > > > At my fuel inefficiency of about 5-5.5mpg, a 1.2% decrease
> > > appears to
> > > > >be rounding error from my standpoint and something I can't
much
> > > fret
> > > > >over. Points one and two are much more significant to me in
> > > terms of
> > > > >potentially disasterous results and long term engine wear.
> > > > >
> > > > >Something that has not been reported or discussed on the
forums
> > > is how
> > > > >the new EPA laws have also affected lubricating oils. The
new
> > > > >"CJ"-rated diesel engine oil spec was specifically
designed for
> > > the
> > > > >2007 ULSD engines. It also has reduced sulfur as well as
> > > phosphorous
> > > > >and sulfated ash which helps stabilize the oil's TBN
(total base
> > > > >number), acts as a lubricity agent and provides alkalinity
to
> > > > >counteract acid formation during combustion. My
understanding is
> > > that
> > > > >oil manufacturers can not maintain the TBN with current
additive
> > > > >packages. All of this taken together may result in reduced
> > > ability to
> > > > >neutralize blow-by which creates more sulpheric acid which
in
> > > turn
> > > > >creates corrosion, more deposits which could clog piston
rings
> > > and
> > > > >cause cylinder wall scuffing, less total wear protection
for the
> > > > >engine, etc, etc...... While oil ratings are generally
rated as
> > > > >backwards compatible (CI vs. CD, etc.), I noted some
engine oil
> > > > >manufacturers recommending to use the CJ oils only in the
new
> > > (2007+)
> > > > >heavy duty engines and stick with the older rated oils for
older
> > > heavy
> > > > >duty diesel engines. In my opinion, you really need to be
sure
> > > you
> > > > >are sticking with a CI rated oil for older (pre-2007)
engines. As
> > > > >time goes on, and the over the road fleets mature into a
> > > predominance
> > > > >of 2007+ engines, the older oil formulations will probably
be
> > > harder
> > > > >to come by.
> > > > >
> > > > >Just my understanding. Not a fuel or oil manufacturer, but
grew
> > > up in
> > > > >the fuel distribution business and have maintained an
interest
> > > in what
> > > > >is really going in my engines.
> > > > >
> > > > >FWIW, etc, etc....
> > > > >
> > > > >Mike Bulriss
> > > > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > > >San Antonio, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Davis"

> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a 95 BMC with the 300 Cummins diesel engine. I
am full
> > > time now
> > > > > > on the West Coast and of course all you can get now is
the
> > > new fuel.
> > > > > > Should I be adding something when I fill up or is it OK
for
> > > the older
> > > > > > engines? If I should be using an additive, what is
> > > recommended and
> > > > > > where do you get it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lee Davis
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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[Jeff Miller]

FWIW my car manual specifies #1 fuel for temps under 32*F, or to mix
30% kerosene with #2 diesel for temps between 14*F and 32*F, ...
50/50 for temps below 14*F. Never to mix #1 and kerosene.

Many of us on various Mercedes Diesel forums have had fuel leaks,
pretty common, I've had two minor ones this fall on one of my cars.
The incidence with existing vehicles will likely increase with the
ULSD especially in older o-rings. Not much can be done about it,
various additives could in theory help, more can be learned from
Biodiesel and WVO forums as there are additives used in cooking WVO
such as benzene and naptha that could increase seal swell.

ULSD is here, it is staying. Watch for leaks, raw diesel is an easy
smell to notice just after shutdown. If you smell raw diesel you're
getting a leak, find it. Increased fuel consumption and rough idling
are other indicators, and watch the engine oil for leaks into the
oil which I know from experience can grenade an engine if it gets
enough diesel oil to hit the crank/rods and run-away (no way to shut
down). A drop in oil pressure might indicate thinning oil from a
leak.

With ULSD it is now more important to use algaecides, watch filters,
use quality oil, and notice smells or fuel mileage changes.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "one_dusty_hoot"
wrote:
>
> Mike, Dan, That would be a 30% mix for the winter blend.
> I doubt that the winter blend went South, maybe, I doubt it.
> I just used it when the temps were in the teens which was
> not often and if so for a short time. My mix was only around
> 7%, but it worked.
>
> If you "slide" diesel or kerosene between your fingers, the
> diesel, #2, felt slipreer (more slipery) Before Gunk we would
> use kerosene in a pump sprayer to act as solvent to clean
> grease off a motor, water hose spray down.
>
> bob janes, greenville, sc