Cold Weather Plumbing

[erniecarpet@...]

Hi terry- i used 1/2 inch Pex that I got at Mountain supply in Bozeman. Home
depot has it there- but only in white. i wanted the red and blue and I used
compression fittings. To do this project- is going to be tough, since Bluebird
built the coach, added the plumbing and then added cabinets to cover all
that up. it took me a whole weekend trying to figure out how to get the curb
side run- to kitchen sink done. The absolute WORST part was trying to get the
crimping tool in these little crevices.
I tried to use heat tape, but the tape I used I had to plug into an outlet
that was in close proximity to the freeze protection heater- DUH- I was on
overload at that time- so the thermostat on the heat tape never got cold enough
, there- of course, the further away from that thermostat the pipes ran- the
colder it became- thus frozen. I finally resorted to taking the covers - the
wood ones covered in carpet- off so heat could get to the side walls.
That old copper is so old and stiff, i was afraid I would mess something up
someplace.
Ask me about flooring- plumbing is not my bag.
But- there has got to be a better way- a small heater we could use in these
runs because there is approx a 4 x 6 inch opening that needs heat.


Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Terry Neal]

Ernie (& the Forum members), I have decided to go ahead & rework all the
plumbing in the PT. The low temps this winter have been a contributing
factor to starting this work. I know that PEX is widely used today for
Hot & Cold lines. Ernie, I recall you saying that you used PEX in
yours? Which brand or mfg. did you decide upon? Some are available
with brass fittings and/or compression fittings vs clamps. Which did
you choose? Also, to rid the coach of the different size of copper
lines, I plan to use just one size of water line. Is 1/2" adequate for
everything in your experience? Will use something smaller for the ice
maker line I guess.

And finally did you wrap your PEX lines with any heat tapes to protect them?

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40
74FC34



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Terry Neal]

Thanks much Ernie. This gives me a good start. Will gather all the
parts & pieces first & then tackle it when we have some warmer days.
I'll pull the covers off the lines in the rear bedroom too. Will try &
use some sort of heat system on the lines where I can get close to outlets.

Froze the hot water line from the tank down the driver's side going to
the bathroom. Should remember that hot water freezes first over cold.

Terry Neal
Bozeman, MT
82PT40
74FC34



erniecarpet@... wrote:

> Hi terry- i used 1/2 inch Pex that I got at Mountain supply in
> Bozeman. Home
> depot has it there- but only in white. i wanted the red and blue and I
> used
> compression fittings. To do this project- is going to be tough, since
> Bluebird
> built the coach, added the plumbing and then added cabinets to cover all
> that up. it took me a whole weekend trying to figure out how to get
> the curb
> side run- to kitchen sink done. The absolute WORST part was trying to
> get the
> crimping tool in these little crevices.
> I tried to use heat tape, but the tape I used I had to plug into an
> outlet
> that was in close proximity to the freeze protection heater- DUH- I
> was on
> overload at that time- so the thermostat on the heat tape never got
> cold enough
> , there- of course, the further away from that thermostat the pipes
> ran- the
> colder it became- thus frozen. I finally resorted to taking the covers
> - the
> wood ones covered in carpet- off so heat could get to the side walls.
> That old copper is so old and stiff, i was afraid I would mess
> something up
> someplace.
> Ask me about flooring- plumbing is not my bag.
> But- there has got to be a better way- a small heater we could use in
> these
> runs because there is approx a 4 x 6 inch opening that needs heat.
>
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, tx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Ernie the copper tubing is supposed to be stiff because it is type L
which has a wall thickness of 40 thousands versus 28 thousands for type M.

For the PT the best preventative maintenance you can do for it in
cold weather is to install a bypass for the hotwater heater and
inject antifreeze thru the outside water fill to all of the pipes.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 07:39 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>Hi terry- i used 1/2 inch Pex that I got at Mountain supply in Bozeman. Home
>depot has it there- but only in white. i wanted the red and blue and I used
>compression fittings. To do this project- is going to be tough,
>since Bluebird
> built the coach, added the plumbing and then added cabinets to cover all
>that up. it took me a whole weekend trying to figure out how to get the curb
>side run- to kitchen sink done. The absolute WORST part was trying
>to get the
>crimping tool in these little crevices.
>I tried to use heat tape, but the tape I used I had to plug into an outlet
>that was in close proximity to the freeze protection heater- DUH- I was on
>overload at that time- so the thermostat on the heat tape never got
>cold enough
>, there- of course, the further away from that thermostat the pipes ran- the
>colder it became- thus frozen. I finally resorted to taking the covers - the
>wood ones covered in carpet- off so heat could get to the side walls.
>That old copper is so old and stiff, i was afraid I would mess something up
>someplace.
>Ask me about flooring- plumbing is not my bag.
>But- there has got to be a better way- a small heater we could use in these
>runs because there is approx a 4 x 6 inch opening that needs heat.
>
>
>Ernie Ekberg
>83PT40
>Weatherford, tx
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Wilhelmus Schreurs]

Hi:
Been following your posts about the water system. I know BB has a air system to
blow the water out, have you, or are you still going to retain that system. I
have had trailers and 5th wheel, for the last 30 years and never used that, but
used the RV antifreeze.
If you set the system up, it would be very easy to winterize, bypass the
hotwater tank, and pump the RV antifreeze through the lines.
Any comments??


Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
Terrace, B.C. Canada


----- Original Message ----
From: Terry Neal
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2006 5:01:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing













Thanks much Ernie. This gives me a good start. Will gather all the

parts & pieces first & then tackle it when we have some warmer days.

I'll pull the covers off the lines in the rear bedroom too. Will try &

use some sort of heat system on the lines where I can get close to outlets.



Froze the hot water line from the tank down the driver's side going to

the bathroom. Should remember that hot water freezes first over cold.



Terry Neal

Bozeman, MT

82PT40

74FC34



erniecarpet@ aol.com wrote:



> Hi terry- i used 1/2 inch Pex that I got at Mountain supply in

> Bozeman. Home

> depot has it there- but only in white. i wanted the red and blue and I

> used

> compression fittings. To do this project- is going to be tough, since

> Bluebird

> built the coach, added the plumbing and then added cabinets to cover all

> that up. it took me a whole weekend trying to figure out how to get

> the curb

> side run- to kitchen sink done. The absolute WORST part was trying to

> get the

> crimping tool in these little crevices.

> I tried to use heat tape, but the tape I used I had to plug into an

> outlet

> that was in close proximity to the freeze protection heater- DUH- I

> was on

> overload at that time- so the thermostat on the heat tape never got

> cold enough

> , there- of course, the further away from that thermostat the pipes

> ran- the

> colder it became- thus frozen. I finally resorted to taking the covers

> - the

> wood ones covered in carpet- off so heat could get to the side walls.

> That old copper is so old and stiff, i was afraid I would mess

> something up

> someplace.

> Ask me about flooring- plumbing is not my bag.

> But- there has got to be a better way- a small heater we could use in

> these

> runs because there is approx a 4 x 6 inch opening that needs heat.

>

>

> Ernie Ekberg

> 83PT40

> Weatherford, tx

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might be well
suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we live
further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact, I guess i
could
have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
year.
What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I would like
to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good system in
place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
prolonged time.
Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers that
could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh water runs-
thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our butts
driving home.



Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

Tom, your idea about the computer fans may do the trick. The box that covers
the lines is 6 inches high by 3 inches wide- plenty of room for a small
pancake fan. I might go to an electronics store this weekend and check those
out.
Running 12 volts shouldn't be a problem. Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas- getting
ready to put all my bus back together


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Ernie I believe you said you took the side panels off between the
rear bedroom wall and the wall just prior to the side bath. How much
room is there in there? In my coach there are freeze heaters in the
rear, the bathroom and under the kitchen sink etc.

Just a guess at this point but why not just cut small vents in the
side panels and install small 12 volt computer fans that will suck
warm air from the room into those spots? Would not take much air to
stop them from freezing.

Appears to be two problems. The first is for those that store their
coaches in cold weather and the second is for those that use them.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 09:04 AM 12/9/2006, you wrote:
>Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might be well
>suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we live
>further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact,
>I guess i could
>have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
>year.
>What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I would like
>to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good system in
>place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
>prolonged time.
>Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
>It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers that
>could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
>On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh water runs-
>thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our butts
>driving home.
>
>
>
>Ernie Ekberg
>83PT40
>Weatherford, tx
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Wilhelmus Schreurs]

Ernie:
What about having your hot and cold water lines together,insulated in a blanket
or something like that, and then circulate the hotwater throughout the hot water
lines? That way you would not require the heat tape or forced air fans.

Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
Terrace, B.C. Canada




----- Original Message ----
From: "erniecarpet@..."
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2006 6:04:42 AM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Cold Weather Plumbing

Installing a bypass and injecting antifreeze in all the pipes might be well
suited to folks that do not use their coach in the winter. Since we live
further south of the deep freeze, we use ours year round. in fact, I guess i
could
have considered myself a fulltimer as I was in the coach 10 months this
year.
What I was trying to get across, and hopefully I can this time. I would like
to be able to stay up in Montana longer- that is if I had a good system in
place where my water wouldn't freeze if it got to be zero outside for a
prolonged time.
Is heat tape the ONLY solution that is on the market?
It would be nice if there were small heaters- not noisy hair dryers that
could operate and send warm air down the side runs of the coach.
On my coach, the chassis heater lines do not run down the fresh water runs-
thus I couldn't use those. By the way, my chassis heaters saved our butts
driving home.



Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

Terry- i like that idea. And if that would work, with the addition of the
computer fans- I might have stayed in Montana longer. Next I'll have to do
something about frozen holding tanks.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]