generator weirdness

[dhardy1944]

Ernie, M.R., Tom, Don and others,

Thanks again. The pictures from M.R. were a "great" help and looks
just like my setup. Here is the latest update: According to the
layout M.R. posted, I have about 13.6 volts at the diode and circuit
breaker without charger and over 14 volts when the charger is on.
However, that never makes it to the gen battery unless I push the
aux switch. At that time the gen voltage jumps to over 14. The relay
for the aux switch is on a vertical wall just to the rear of the
front step. But, I cannot see a diode or circuit breaker anywhere
near it. I am not sure what to do next. I will check our site off
and on through the day. Rain is coming tonight for the next few
days, but I should have several hours today. And to Tom, my direct
reply to your address came back - not sure why. Thanks again to
everyone.

Dave

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrkane1952" <mrkane@...>
wrote:
>
> Have created an album in the Photos section showing my setup of the
> rear solenoid, breaker and diode. [At least I think I did ;-) ]
Look
> for "PT Gen Batt Charging" In these pictures, the diode is on the
> right, mounted vertically on a piece of aluminum angle, with red
leads
> going to both top and bottom.
>
> There is a schematic, too, but the displayed resolution is too low
to
> be useful. The file uploaded was about 2600x1900 pixels--162kB--to
> retain enough detail to be readable. Maybe one of the moderators
can
> help?
>
> Good luck--
> M.R.Kane
> '85 PT40
>
>
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
wrote:
> > >
> > > First, to Ernie, thanks for your comments about not knowing
what a
> > > diode is unless it says diode. I love you man. Second, the
rediline
> > > was dead when I bought the coach. I didn't know it, didn't
know what
> > > a rediline was or even that I had one. It has been replaced
with a
> > > Xantrex 2500 inverter/charger. I know the area and there are
three
> > > relays?: two on the bottom of the compartment and one I
believe on
> > > the forward wall. Maybe the diode is close to it. Also, are
these
> > > relays the same or is each one a different animal? I will be
leaving
> > > for church shortly, but will check for posts later tonight. We
are
> > > supposed to have rain coming, but maybe it will wait until I
can
> > > check some more. Thanks again so very much.
> > >
> > > Dave in Tulsa (84 PT 40)
> > >
> >
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Rapid charged battery drain symptom could still be a bad battery (
see Jay's notes, Canadians dont have battery issues)or a + short in
fPump or fsolenoid on the gen-engine. those failures may have been
the cause of a 'result problem' like a bad diode (electric backflow
valve). The aux switch may add more power to overcome the drain???
The aux switch may loop in a better ground to make a complete
circuit?????

I think a fully charged battery should run the genset for 8 hours
without a need for a recharge.And stand fully charged for a month??

One note on replacement battery chargers. My chargers (Yellow??)are
in a bay with 110 receptacles. One of the 2 receptacles is powered by
the inverter/genset/edison and the other is only powered by genset
and edison. Using the inverter receptacle to power chargers drains
batterybanks (when inverter camping) as the inverter is not 100%
efficient. The BB chargers were hard wired and the replacements are
plug wired. I like keeping it plug wired as I can run the chargers
only if docked at a spot with only 15 amp/110 via an extension cord.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
wrote:
>
> Ernie, M.R., Tom, Don and others,
>
> Thanks again. The pictures from M.R. were a "great" help and looks
> just like my setup. Here is the latest update: According to the
> layout M.R. posted, I have about 13.6 volts at the diode and
circuit
> breaker without charger and over 14 volts when the charger is on.
> However, that never makes it to the gen battery unless I push the
> aux switch. At that time the gen voltage jumps to over 14. The
relay
> for the aux switch is on a vertical wall just to the rear of the
> front step. But, I cannot see a diode or circuit breaker anywhere
> near it. I am not sure what to do next. I will check our site off
> and on through the day. Rain is coming tonight for the next few
> days, but I should have several hours today. And to Tom, my direct
> reply to your address came back - not sure why. Thanks again to
> everyone.
>
> Dave
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrkane1952" <mrkane@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Have created an album in the Photos section showing my setup of
the
> > rear solenoid, breaker and diode. [At least I think I did ;-) ]
> Look
> > for "PT Gen Batt Charging" In these pictures, the diode is on the
> > right, mounted vertically on a piece of aluminum angle, with red
> leads
> > going to both top and bottom.
> >
> > There is a schematic, too, but the displayed resolution is too
low
> to
> > be useful. The file uploaded was about 2600x1900 pixels--162kB--
to
> > retain enough detail to be readable. Maybe one of the moderators
> can
> > help?
> >
> > Good luck--
> > M.R.Kane
> > '85 PT40
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > First, to Ernie, thanks for your comments about not knowing
> what a
> > > > diode is unless it says diode. I love you man. Second, the
> rediline
> > > > was dead when I bought the coach. I didn't know it, didn't
> know what
> > > > a rediline was or even that I had one. It has been replaced
> with a
> > > > Xantrex 2500 inverter/charger. I know the area and there are
> three
> > > > relays?: two on the bottom of the compartment and one I
> believe on
> > > > the forward wall. Maybe the diode is close to it. Also, are
> these
> > > > relays the same or is each one a different animal? I will be
> leaving
> > > > for church shortly, but will check for posts later tonight.
We
> are
> > > > supposed to have rain coming, but maybe it will wait until I
> can
> > > > check some more. Thanks again so very much.
> > > >
> > > > Dave in Tulsa (84 PT 40)
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[erniecarpet@...]

Dave, when ralph removed my rediline- he had to realign some cables so the
charger would charge the batteries. Which cable, where it was relocated, is a
mystery to me. But as soon as he relocated those my charger worked as
designed.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, tx



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mrkane1952]

Dave:

The function of the "Aux Battery" switch is to bypass the diode and
breaker in the generator battery circuit, to allow the generator
battery to assist the coach batteries start the main engine. Both the
relay in the front and the one in the rear are needed. The symptoms
you describe still suggest a problem with these solenoids, the diode,
breaker, or associated wiring since you have replaced the generator
battery.

There should only be one diode and one breaker in this circuit, which
you found in the rear compartment.

How was the voltage you describe below measured? Let me suggest more
measurements:

1) Measure the voltage from one side of the diode to the other. If
there isn't too much current flowing, it should be 0.7 V.
Alternatively, if the diode is conducting correctly, measuring voltage
from one side of the diode to ground should be the coach charger
voltage--say 14 V--and the other side of the diode to ground would be
13.3 V. The drop (voltage difference) across the diode will be higher
at higher currents.

{The best way to check a diode is to remove it from the circuit and
check it for continuity in the forward direction, isolation in the
reverse direction. Voltage measurements while still in the active
circuit can be confusing due to variations in the voltages of the
batteries and dirty contacts throughout, for example. An accurate
digital meter is also important--I just got a nifty one with the
clamp-on AC Volt feature for about $40 at Sears.}

2) Measure the voltage from one breaker terminal to the other one. If
the breaker is normal (closed,) the voltage should be zero. If not,
then the breaker is suspect.

In my case the front solenoid was faulty in addition to the breaker.
The relay was hot to the touch, even without using the "Aux Batt"
switch, and faulty breaker didn't allow any current from the charging
system to reach the gen battery.

My suggestion at this point is to replace both solenoids and the
breaker, being sure to clean or replace all the connectors, and to
clean the gen battery chassis ground(s).

Good luck--

M.R.
'85 PT40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944" wrote:
>
> Ernie, M.R., Tom, Don and others,
>
> Thanks again. The pictures from M.R. were a "great" help and looks
> just like my setup. Here is the latest update: According to the
> layout M.R. posted, I have about 13.6 volts at the diode and circuit
> breaker without charger and over 14 volts when the charger is on.
> However, that never makes it to the gen battery unless I push the
> aux switch. At that time the gen voltage jumps to over 14. The relay
> for the aux switch is on a vertical wall just to the rear of the
> front step. But, I cannot see a diode or circuit breaker anywhere
> near it. I am not sure what to do next. I will check our site off
> and on through the day. Rain is coming tonight for the next few
> days, but I should have several hours today. And to Tom, my direct
> reply to your address came back - not sure why. Thanks again to
> everyone.
>
> Dave
>

[dhardy1944]

M.R.

Thanks again for taking time to give me some direction. I certainly
have no problem replacing those parts. Tom Warner mentioned a couple
of things. First, he asked me to check the voltage on the positive
cable to the gen battery while disconnected from the battery to see
if there was any flow. It appeared to be eratic. It actually spiked
once up to 13-14 volts, but settled down to 1-2 volts. Second, Tom
said when the Rediline was replaced with the Xantrex things may not
be hooked up right now. If some of the cables had to be moved, I am
fairly certain they were not. The local RV place did not want to put
the inverter in, so a regular electrician did. I doubt he would have
known anything about making changes due to removing the Rediline. If
I need to move a cable, I can do it, but I need to know which one
and to where.

You asked me what I was checking voltage with and it is a digital
Craftsman, one of the better models of maybe six years ago. I will
check the voltage as you described tomorrow if I don't get rained
out. There was a 90% chance, now we are down to 70%, so maybe I can
still work. I suppose I can get those parts at Napa? But, let me
mention one more time Tom's comments about the Rediline/Xantrex
trade out. As best I can determine with my voltmeter, there is 14
volts at the diode and breaker. Maybe I need to replace these parts
and move a cable too, but I am afraid I might damage other
components in a cable shift with my limited knowledge and ability.
Better stated - I might burn the coach up. Thanks again.

Dave

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrkane1952" <mrkane@...>
wrote:
>
> Dave:
>
> The function of the "Aux Battery" switch is to bypass the diode and
> breaker in the generator battery circuit, to allow the generator
> battery to assist the coach batteries start the main engine. Both
the
> relay in the front and the one in the rear are needed. The
symptoms
> you describe still suggest a problem with these solenoids, the
diode,
> breaker, or associated wiring since you have replaced the generator
> battery.
>
> There should only be one diode and one breaker in this circuit,
which
> you found in the rear compartment.
>
> How was the voltage you describe below measured? Let me suggest
more
> measurements:
>
> 1) Measure the voltage from one side of the diode to the other. If
> there isn't too much current flowing, it should be 0.7 V.
> Alternatively, if the diode is conducting correctly, measuring
voltage
> from one side of the diode to ground should be the coach charger
> voltage--say 14 V--and the other side of the diode to ground would
be
> 13.3 V. The drop (voltage difference) across the diode will be
higher
> at higher currents.
>
> {The best way to check a diode is to remove it from the circuit and
> check it for continuity in the forward direction, isolation in the
> reverse direction. Voltage measurements while still in the active
> circuit can be confusing due to variations in the voltages of the
> batteries and dirty contacts throughout, for example. An accurate
> digital meter is also important--I just got a nifty one with the
> clamp-on AC Volt feature for about $40 at Sears.}
>
> 2) Measure the voltage from one breaker terminal to the other
one. If
> the breaker is normal (closed,) the voltage should be zero. If
not,
> then the breaker is suspect.
>
> In my case the front solenoid was faulty in addition to the
breaker.
> The relay was hot to the touch, even without using the "Aux Batt"
> switch, and faulty breaker didn't allow any current from the
charging
> system to reach the gen battery.
>
> My suggestion at this point is to replace both solenoids and the
> breaker, being sure to clean or replace all the connectors, and to
> clean the gen battery chassis ground(s).
>
> Good luck--
>
> M.R.
> '85 PT40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
wrote:
> >
> > Ernie, M.R., Tom, Don and others,
> >
> > Thanks again. The pictures from M.R. were a "great" help and
looks
> > just like my setup. Here is the latest update: According to the
> > layout M.R. posted, I have about 13.6 volts at the diode and
circuit
> > breaker without charger and over 14 volts when the charger is
on.
> > However, that never makes it to the gen battery unless I push
the
> > aux switch. At that time the gen voltage jumps to over 14. The
relay
> > for the aux switch is on a vertical wall just to the rear of the
> > front step. But, I cannot see a diode or circuit breaker
anywhere
> > near it. I am not sure what to do next. I will check our site
off
> > and on through the day. Rain is coming tonight for the next few
> > days, but I should have several hours today. And to Tom, my
direct
> > reply to your address came back - not sure why. Thanks again to
> > everyone.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>

[dhardy1944]

Ernie,

That may be the problem. Tom is going to send some instructions on
that, I just hope I am able to follow them. If I don't feel fairly
certain, I will not move any wires. I have caused myself more work
than I have fixed a few times around the house. M.R. has given me
some additional tests as well. Ralph is keeping me in mind for his
schedule, so if I can't get it on my own with the help from men on
the forun, I will get it to him. Some of these men have given a lot
of their time - great people and I don't take it for granted.
Everyone has more to do than they have time for. Have a great day.

Dave (84 PT 40)

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Dave, when ralph removed my rediline- he had to realign some
cables so the
> charger would charge the batteries. Which cable, where it was
relocated, is a
> mystery to me. But as soon as he relocated those my charger worked
as
> designed.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, tx
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[dhardy1944]

Here is the latest on the generator saga. Today I replaced the two
solenoids, diode and breaker. So far - no difference. However, I
have a problem with the front solenoid I replaced. It is not
engaging when I push the aux switch as the old one did. The ground
may not be good, but it started raining and had to quit. Also, if
anyone can confirm the large cable layout, on the front solenoid I
would feel better. I color coded (tape)the rear solenoid and other
components, but since I was lying right under the front one during
the exchange, I didn't. When I moved my arm I bumped them. I believe
they are right (one red and two yellow curb side) there are two (not
much color) to the inside.

From Ralph's comments I think maybe the cables in the back are
wrong. On the angle metal, holding the diode, there is a bolt
(terminal)to the right. There is a large cable with red tape and one
with green and the lead going to bottom of diode. The other end of
the green cable connects to the far side of the solenoid opposite
the feed from the diode and breaker. It appears to me to just be a
loop going no place. I mentioned before there was a Rediline when I
bought the coach, but I did not mention some of the cables had been
cut and others disconnected. There are two solenoids and a host of
wires in the bottom of the compartment that probably connected to
the Rediline. I will be out of town Saturday and Sunday, but will be
able to check messages. Thanks to all.

Dave in Tulsa (84 PT 40)

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
wrote:
>
> Ernie,
>
> That may be the problem. Tom is going to send some instructions on
> that, I just hope I am able to follow them. If I don't feel fairly
> certain, I will not move any wires. I have caused myself more work
> than I have fixed a few times around the house. M.R. has given me
> some additional tests as well. Ralph is keeping me in mind for his
> schedule, so if I can't get it on my own with the help from men on
> the forun, I will get it to him. Some of these men have given a
lot
> of their time - great people and I don't take it for granted.
> Everyone has more to do than they have time for. Have a great day.
>
> Dave (84 PT 40)
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> >
> > Dave, when ralph removed my rediline- he had to realign some
> cables so the
> > charger would charge the batteries. Which cable, where it was
> relocated, is a
> > mystery to me. But as soon as he relocated those my charger
worked
> as
> > designed.
> >
> > Ernie Ekberg
> > 83PT40
> > Weatherford, tx
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Diodes are overcome by too much voltage a 110that is wired up to 220
or a 12 volt that is wired up to make it 24. I dont know if they
damage at those thresholds use and age dont usuly hurt those things
no use and misuse usuly do.
GregoryO'Connor
94pt
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
wrote:
>
> Here is the latest on the generator saga. Today I replaced the two
> solenoids, diode and breaker. So far - no difference. However, I
> have a problem with the front solenoid I replaced. It is not
> engaging when I push the aux switch as the old one did. The ground
> may not be good, but it started raining and had to quit. Also, if
> anyone can confirm the large cable layout, on the front solenoid I
> would feel better. I color coded (tape)the rear solenoid and other
> components, but since I was lying right under the front one during
> the exchange, I didn't. When I moved my arm I bumped them. I
believe
> they are right (one red and two yellow curb side) there are two
(not
> much color) to the inside.
>
> From Ralph's comments I think maybe the cables in the back are
> wrong. On the angle metal, holding the diode, there is a bolt
> (terminal)to the right. There is a large cable with red tape and
one
> with green and the lead going to bottom of diode. The other end of
> the green cable connects to the far side of the solenoid opposite
> the feed from the diode and breaker. It appears to me to just be a
> loop going no place. I mentioned before there was a Rediline when I
> bought the coach, but I did not mention some of the cables had been
> cut and others disconnected. There are two solenoids and a host of
> wires in the bottom of the compartment that probably connected to
> the Rediline. I will be out of town Saturday and Sunday, but will
be
> able to check messages. Thanks to all.
>
> Dave in Tulsa (84 PT 40)
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
> wrote:
> >
> > Ernie,
> >
> > That may be the problem. Tom is going to send some instructions
on
> > that, I just hope I am able to follow them. If I don't feel
fairly
> > certain, I will not move any wires. I have caused myself more
work
> > than I have fixed a few times around the house. M.R. has given me
> > some additional tests as well. Ralph is keeping me in mind for
his
> > schedule, so if I can't get it on my own with the help from men
on
> > the forun, I will get it to him. Some of these men have given a
> lot
> > of their time - great people and I don't take it for granted.
> > Everyone has more to do than they have time for. Have a great day.
> >
> > Dave (84 PT 40)
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Dave, when ralph removed my rediline- he had to realign some
> > cables so the
> > > charger would charge the batteries. Which cable, where it was
> > relocated, is a
> > > mystery to me. But as soon as he relocated those my charger
> worked
> > as
> > > designed.
> > >
> > > Ernie Ekberg
> > > 83PT40
> > > Weatherford, tx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

[one_dusty_hoot]

Diodes are simply an elecrtonic gate allowing
current to flow in only one direction. The P/N
bond within the diode is where the action is and
I don't believe time degrades this junction. The
biggest "killer" I have seen is voltage spikes
caused by inductive kicks of direct current
relay coils.
bob janes, greenville, sc



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> Diodes are overcome by too much voltage a 110that is wired up to
220
> or a 12 volt that is wired up to make it 24. I dont know if they
> damage at those thresholds use and age dont usuly hurt those things
> no use and misuse usuly do.
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94pt
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
> wrote:
> >
> > Here is the latest on the generator saga. Today I replaced the
two
> > solenoids, diode and breaker. So far - no difference. However, I
> > have a problem with the front solenoid I replaced. It is not
> > engaging when I push the aux switch as the old one did. The
ground
> > may not be good, but it started raining and had to quit. Also, if
> > anyone can confirm the large cable layout, on the front solenoid
I
> > would feel better. I color coded (tape)the rear solenoid and
other
> > components, but since I was lying right under the front one
during
> > the exchange, I didn't. When I moved my arm I bumped them. I
> believe
> > they are right (one red and two yellow curb side) there are two
> (not
> > much color) to the inside.
> >
> > From Ralph's comments I think maybe the cables in the back are
> > wrong. On the angle metal, holding the diode, there is a bolt
> > (terminal)to the right. There is a large cable with red tape and
> one
> > with green and the lead going to bottom of diode. The other end
of
> > the green cable connects to the far side of the solenoid opposite
> > the feed from the diode and breaker. It appears to me to just be
a
> > loop going no place. I mentioned before there was a Rediline when
I
> > bought the coach, but I did not mention some of the cables had
been
> > cut and others disconnected. There are two solenoids and a host
of
> > wires in the bottom of the compartment that probably connected to
> > the Rediline. I will be out of town Saturday and Sunday, but will
> be
> > able to check messages. Thanks to all.
> >
> > Dave in Tulsa (84 PT 40)
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ernie,
> > >
> > > That may be the problem. Tom is going to send some instructions
> on
> > > that, I just hope I am able to follow them. If I don't feel
> fairly
> > > certain, I will not move any wires. I have caused myself more
> work
> > > than I have fixed a few times around the house. M.R. has given
me
> > > some additional tests as well. Ralph is keeping me in mind for
> his
> > > schedule, so if I can't get it on my own with the help from men
> on
> > > the forun, I will get it to him. Some of these men have given a
> > lot
> > > of their time - great people and I don't take it for granted.
> > > Everyone has more to do than they have time for. Have a great
day.
> > >
> > > Dave (84 PT 40)
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dave, when ralph removed my rediline- he had to realign some
> > > cables so the
> > > > charger would charge the batteries. Which cable, where it was
> > > relocated, is a
> > > > mystery to me. But as soon as he relocated those my charger
> > worked
> > > as
> > > > designed.
> > > >
> > > > Ernie Ekberg
> > > > 83PT40
> > > > Weatherford, tx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[mrkane1952]

I added three more photos of my forward relay taken before I swapped
it out. (That's how I keep track of what goes where.) They're in the
same album as the previous posting.

I'm going to try to find some way to make the schematic readable. I
replaced my scanner today, so I may be able to break it into smaller
pieces you could print and stick together. I'll also look at the
"full schematic" set I received from BlueBird to check for variations.

Referring to the schematic, the rediline has only four DC connections
shown: two grounds and two Positive leads going to different relays
than the charging circuit. Don't see how removing it should affect
the charging.

--M.R.
'85 PT40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "dhardy1944" wrote:
>
> Here is the latest on the generator saga. Today I replaced the two
> solenoids, diode and breaker. So far - no difference. However, I
> have a problem with the front solenoid I replaced. It is not
> engaging when I push the aux switch as the old one did. The ground
> may not be good, but it started raining and had to quit. Also, if
> anyone can confirm the large cable layout, on the front solenoid I
> would feel better. I color coded (tape)the rear solenoid and other
> components, but since I was lying right under the front one during
> the exchange, I didn't. When I moved my arm I bumped them. I believe
> they are right (one red and two yellow curb side) there are two (not
> much color) to the inside.
>
> From Ralph's comments I think maybe the cables in the back are
> wrong. On the angle metal, holding the diode, there is a bolt
> (terminal)to the right. There is a large cable with red tape and one
> with green and the lead going to bottom of diode. The other end of
> the green cable connects to the far side of the solenoid opposite
> the feed from the diode and breaker. It appears to me to just be a
> loop going no place. I mentioned before there was a Rediline when I
> bought the coach, but I did not mention some of the cables had been
> cut and others disconnected. There are two solenoids and a host of
> wires in the bottom of the compartment that probably connected to
> the Rediline. I will be out of town Saturday and Sunday, but will be
> able to check messages. Thanks to all.
>
> Dave in Tulsa (84 PT 40)
>