Batteries -- what is reasonable?

[Pete Masterson]

We just returned a few days ago from our last trip. We stayed in a
state park with no hook ups for 4 days. They had a quiet time from
8PM to 10AM. Our house batteries didn't seem to be "up" to the task
of keeping the systems going.

My coach is all-electric. Aside from cooking, the major draw is the
refrigerator (a home-style side-by-side Amana). I have two 2500 watt
inverters.

The house batteries are six class 4D 12 v batteries with
approximately 200 amp hour capacity each. So that's a total of 1200
amp hours. Using 50% as the cut off, that leaves 600 amp hours
available to use.

I don't have the exact specification for the refrigerator, but it's
limited to a 15 amp breaker -- so let's assume that it draws 15amps.
We had no other systems operating (no TV, no heat) except the
'phantom' loads that usually are present. The water pump would only
operate if there was a 'flush' during the night (10 amps maximum at
12v but for only a brief period from time to time).

So, if I calculate correctly, I have *no more than* (and probably a
lot less than) a 30 amp per hour load times 14 hours or a maximum
draw of 420 amp hours -- so I should have had no significant shortage
of power in the morning starting with fully charged batteries in the
evening before. (This, however, was not the case.)

So... 1. I assume that the batteries aren't holding their charge as
they should. This does not surprise me, since I was told they had
been "abused" while in the hands of various dealers and
intermediaries before I purchased the coach. 2. is my approximation
on power correct? Should the batteries have held up better? (We sure
would have liked to turn on the heat in the morning!) Am I missing
something?

We ran the generator 4 to 5 hours ... to bring the batteries up to a
full charge (but I'm not sure they were fully 'up' -- but they should
have been well past 90% charged). How long is typical to run a
generator to recharge a set of house batteries?

I plan to purchase a new set of house batteries, but thought I'd run
this by the list first.

Comments please?

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[martingregg598]

Pete, I think that your friend might be right. The old batteries could
have been abused, seriously compromising their performance. Are you
sure they're deep-cycle? I had a friend that bought 4ea. 4-d 12v
batteries from a local shop and they were not deep-cycle, you know
thinner plates, quicker discharge and less depth of charge, they
wouldn't last overnight. I know that my 12v batteries do not deliver
the same performance now that they did when they were new and they
haven't been abused, they just don't have the same depth of charge. I
will be switching to 6v soon.
Marty,
95 BMC 37

[Gregory OConnor]

Pete, Are you maintaining hotwater with the inverter? I schedule
daily gen/run/battery charge time for periods of high use and prior
to a need for hotwater. My chargers ( Yellow?? not OEM) have
an "Equalizer" routine that is manualy prompted. The first time I
completed the routine my batteries went to 14Volts and all the cells
were truly even.
Gregory O'Connor
94PTRomolandCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete
Masterson wrote:
>
> We just returned a few days ago from our last trip. We stayed in a
> state park with no hook ups for 4 days. They had a quiet time from
> 8PM to 10AM. Our house batteries didn't seem to be "up" to the
task
> of keeping the systems going.
>
> My coach is all-electric. Aside from cooking, the major draw is
the
> refrigerator (a home-style side-by-side Amana). I have two 2500
watt
> inverters.
>
> The house batteries are six class 4D 12 v batteries with
> approximately 200 amp hour capacity each. So that's a total of
1200
> amp hours. Using 50% as the cut off, that leaves 600 amp hours
> available to use.
>
> I don't have the exact specification for the refrigerator, but
it's
> limited to a 15 amp breaker -- so let's assume that it draws
15amps.
> We had no other systems operating (no TV, no heat) except the
> 'phantom' loads that usually are present. The water pump would
only
> operate if there was a 'flush' during the night (10 amps maximum
at
> 12v but for only a brief period from time to time).
>
> So, if I calculate correctly, I have *no more than* (and probably
a
> lot less than) a 30 amp per hour load times 14 hours or a maximum
> draw of 420 amp hours -- so I should have had no significant
shortage
> of power in the morning starting with fully charged batteries in
the
> evening before. (This, however, was not the case.)
>
> So... 1. I assume that the batteries aren't holding their charge
as
> they should. This does not surprise me, since I was told they had
> been "abused" while in the hands of various dealers and
> intermediaries before I purchased the coach. 2. is my
approximation
> on power correct? Should the batteries have held up better? (We
sure
> would have liked to turn on the heat in the morning!) Am I missing
> something?
>
> We ran the generator 4 to 5 hours ... to bring the batteries up to
a
> full charge (but I'm not sure they were fully 'up' -- but they
should
> have been well past 90% charged). How long is typical to run a
> generator to recharge a set of house batteries?
>
> I plan to purchase a new set of house batteries, but thought I'd
run
> this by the list first.
>
> Comments please?
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> El Sobrante, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Gregory OConnor]

One other battery draw during inverterCamping could be chargers. I
have non OEM Chargers that donot turn off when the inverter is on.
The previous owner set them up to plug into a non inverter outlet in
the bay. AT a 30 amp Park the non inverter leg is not EdisonHot and
I have to plug the chargers into a EdisonHot@30amp outlet which is
also the inverter driven outlet (when inverter is on). I must
remember to unplug the chargers from the inverter side prior to
InverterCamping or I will be using the batterybank to charge the
batterybank. (Pete, I know you are up on this but it deserves being
posted)

Chargers and good batteries are also necessary during
30and50ampCamping because much of the electric equipment is 12 volt
battery driven. TexasMikeB recently did some charger repair update
and he may shed some light from the LeaveUsAloneStar State.

GregoryO'Connor
94PtRomolandCa


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> We just returned a few days ago from our last trip. We stayed in a
> state park with no hook ups for 4 days. They had a quiet time from
> 8PM to 10AM. Our house batteries didn't seem to be "up" to the
task
> of keeping the systems going.
>
> My coach is all-electric. Aside from cooking, the major draw is
the
> refrigerator (a home-style side-by-side Amana). I have two 2500
watt
> inverters.
>
> The house batteries are six class 4D 12 v batteries with
> approximately 200 amp hour capacity each. So that's a total of
1200
> amp hours. Using 50% as the cut off, that leaves 600 amp hours
> available to use.
>
> I don't have the exact specification for the refrigerator, but
it's
> limited to a 15 amp breaker -- so let's assume that it draws
15amps.
> We had no other systems operating (no TV, no heat) except the
> 'phantom' loads that usually are present. The water pump would
only
> operate if there was a 'flush' during the night (10 amps maximum
at
> 12v but for only a brief period from time to time).
>
> So, if I calculate correctly, I have *no more than* (and probably
a
> lot less than) a 30 amp per hour load times 14 hours or a maximum
> draw of 420 amp hours -- so I should have had no significant
shortage
> of power in the morning starting with fully charged batteries in
the
> evening before. (This, however, was not the case.)
>
> So... 1. I assume that the batteries aren't holding their charge
as
> they should. This does not surprise me, since I was told they had
> been "abused" while in the hands of various dealers and
> intermediaries before I purchased the coach. 2. is my
approximation
> on power correct? Should the batteries have held up better? (We
sure
> would have liked to turn on the heat in the morning!) Am I missing
> something?
>
> We ran the generator 4 to 5 hours ... to bring the batteries up to
a
> full charge (but I'm not sure they were fully 'up' -- but they
should
> have been well past 90% charged). How long is typical to run a
> generator to recharge a set of house batteries?
>
> I plan to purchase a new set of house batteries, but thought I'd
run
> this by the list first.
>
> Comments please?
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> El Sobrante, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Pete Masterson]

Hot water is from the AquaHot system. I think (hope) that the 1500W
electric component that heats water for "immediate/light" demand
doesn't work when I'm on inverter power. We didn't use any hot water
while the generator was off, in any event. (The more common situation
for inverter use is when we're on the road ... then the AquaHot picks
up heat from the primary engine cooling system.)

My inverter controller has a 'Equalizer' routine ... I ran it 3 or 4
months back, but it didn't have much effect. My best guess is that
the current batteries are sulfated and probably beyond help.

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA




On Feb 26, 2007, at 6:50 PM, Gregory OConnor wrote:

> Pete, Are you maintaining hotwater with the inverter? I schedule
> daily gen/run/battery charge time for periods of high use and prior
> to a need for hotwater. My chargers ( Yellow?? not OEM) have
> an "Equalizer" routine that is manualy prompted. The first time I
> completed the routine my batteries went to 14Volts and all the cells
> were truly even.
> Gregory O'Connor
> 94PTRomolandCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete
> Masterson wrote:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]