BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"

[Leroy Eckert]

I had no idea it was 110v with small wires. Thanks
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL



----- Original Message -----
From: Gardner Yeaw
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"


One thing that scares me is that plastic tubing is non conductive.
If the heat tape filament burns through and makes contact with the
water in the plastic pipe, you have a formula for electrocution.
The wiring in an RV does not connect the ground to the neutral, but
the above scenario combined with a defective electrical component
could present a deadly combination. I would be very concerned about
using heat tapes on plastic plumbing.

Gardner
78FC33

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Terry Neal wrote:
>
> Leroy,
>
> Thank god you found the problem like you did & not after it
started a
> fire. I had one of those old heat tapes short out & actually burn
the
> plug connector completely off a heat tape in my coach last
winter.
> Ernie Ekberg told me he had had the same type of experience too
with his
> PT40.
>
> Good plan for everyone with one of these coaches is to check all
of the
> heat tapes on their coach & replace any that look marginal.
>
> Myself, I am replacing all of mine. They are all original & after
25
> years, they are bound to be just waiting to bite me.
>
> Terry Neal
> Bozeman, MT
> 82PT40 6V92TA
> 74FC34 6V53T
>
>
>
> smquandt wrote:
>
> > Leroy
> >
> > I have my drawings at home tonight; the only thing that is shown
on
> > mine is
> > what pipes are heated. The manufacturer is listed as Easyheat,
web site is
> > http://www.easyheat.com/ <http://www.easyheat.com/> My guess is
a bad
> > thermostat on the tape. Glad no
> > worse than it was. If you want I can scan the drawings at work
> > tomorrow and
> > send them to you.
> >
> > Steve Quandt
> >
> > 1993 PT 40
> >
> > Iron Mountain, MI
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of
jwasnewski
> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:30 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-
"FIRE"
> >
> > For some time now I have listened to G. O'Conner's Cause and
Affect
> > theories, have agreed with them because it is how I think. Every
> > problem has a specific cause. Here is mine. I am a very happy
> > camper today because it could have been much worse with the
family in
> > the bus.
> >
> > Pulling into Talladega Superspeedway staging center about 8PM
> > Thursday evening I smelled a heavy rubber or plastic smell. I
> > checked out all the systems and everything was normal. So I
passed
> > the smell off to the numerous campfires at the Superspeedway. Who
> > could have known?
> >
> > I asked the wife to turn on the waterheater to get the grandkids
a
> > bath while waiting to get into the infield. Genset running
everything
> > A OK. I go outside to talk with people milling around while the
kids
> > take their shower. It is dark thirty and a cold beer will do
after a
> > 5 hour drive. Then I hear what sounds like rain. The guy next
door
> > says it's your a/c. I think it sounds like a flood. In fact water
> > was running out of all the the bays onto the ground. I ran
inside,
> > shut off the water pump thinking that either a line broke at the
pump
> > or the water heater failed. When I walked on the bedroom carpet
it
> > was hot water. I looked at the water heater, an that ain't easy
in
> > the dark an nothing. Pulled up the mattress and the bottom was
> > soaked about half way across. My hearing is not good so I asked
the
> > Grandson to come back and listen.. Turned on the water pump and
found
> > where the leak was, then took out the night stand, pulled the
carpet
> > and found the problem.
> >
> > Winter protection strips. I do not know what else these wires
could
> > be. Maybe there are other names, heat tape etc. but true to form
in
> > my Royale conversion these things are not on my drawings, didn't
> > think I had any because of the Wabasto Hydronic heat but I do.
Only
> > from the water pump to the water heater(I hope) encased in the
> > insulation that surrounds the Pex tubing. They are 1/4 in width,
> > copper or brass mesh with two wires inside of that. They have a
> > vulcanized grey tip(I cut one apart)where the two wires are
> > connected. Inside of the two 16 gauge wires are a white fiber
> > substance circular wrapped with hair sized copper wiring similar
to
> > what one would have seen in an early 50's toaster except smaller.
> > One or more of these wired failed for reasons unknown and fried
a two
> > inch long portion of the Pex tubing with water in it. There was
> > evidence this had occurred before because one of the strips was
> > stuck to and had imprinted the Pex tubing all along where I
> > inspected. As well another wire had been capped off and a patch
had
> > been installed in the Pex. I have cut the remaining wires in
half so
> > this cannot happen again. When I get time I will trace them to
the
> > source and see how they are hooked up.
> >
> > I wonder this? Why did the fuse system fail?
> > Why did the system operate at 87 degrees F OAT?
> >
> > I know this is windy but had to be detailed. I am convinced this
> > event could have been very serious, burning the bus down and/or
loss
> > of life if it occurred at a different time.
> >
> > There will never be another heat strip in my bus under any
> > circumstance.
> >
> > I will post pictures of the damaged parts when I get them
developed.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > Niceville, FL
> > Got the water pipe hooked up with a little help from the good
friends
> > at Talladega. I'll repair it later.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leroy Eckert]

I donno, yet to be determined. In my case when I find out they will never be
plugged in again. My greatest fear in a bus is fire.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL


----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Lawrence
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"


Soo,
Where do the heat tapes plug in or are the hard wired?
Bob Lawrence
84 PT 36
Tacoma, Wa.
>
> Leroy,
>
> Thank god you found the problem like you did & not after it started
a
> fire. I had one of those old heat tapes short out & actually burn
the
> plug connector completely off a heat tape in my coach last winter.
> Ernie Ekberg told me he had had the same type of experience too
with his
> PT40.
>
> Good plan for everyone with one of these coaches is to check all of
the
> heat tapes on their coach & replace any that look marginal.
>
> Myself, I am replacing all of mine. They are all original & after
25
> years, they are bound to be just waiting to bite me.
>
> Terry Neal
> Bozeman, MT
> 82PT40 6V92TA
> 74FC34 6V53T
>
>
>
> smquandt wrote:
>
> > Leroy
> >
> > I have my drawings at home tonight; the only thing that is shown
on
> > mine is
> > what pipes are heated. The manufacturer is listed as Easyheat,
web site is
> > http://www.easyheat.com/ <http://www.easyheat.com/> My guess is a
bad
> > thermostat on the tape. Glad no
> > worse than it was. If you want I can scan the drawings at work
> > tomorrow and
> > send them to you.
> >
> > Steve Quandt
> >
> > 1993 PT 40
> >
> > Iron Mountain, MI
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of
jwasnewski
> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:30 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-
"FIRE"
> >
> > For some time now I have listened to G. O'Conner's Cause and
Affect
> > theories, have agreed with them because it is how I think. Every
> > problem has a specific cause. Here is mine. I am a very happy
> > camper today because it could have been much worse with the
family in
> > the bus.
> >
> > Pulling into Talladega Superspeedway staging center about 8PM
> > Thursday evening I smelled a heavy rubber or plastic smell. I
> > checked out all the systems and everything was normal. So I passed
> > the smell off to the numerous campfires at the Superspeedway. Who
> > could have known?
> >
> > I asked the wife to turn on the waterheater to get the grandkids a
> > bath while waiting to get into the infield. Genset running
everything
> > A OK. I go outside to talk with people milling around while the
kids
> > take their shower. It is dark thirty and a cold beer will do
after a
> > 5 hour drive. Then I hear what sounds like rain. The guy next door
> > says it's your a/c. I think it sounds like a flood. In fact water
> > was running out of all the the bays onto the ground. I ran inside,
> > shut off the water pump thinking that either a line broke at the
pump
> > or the water heater failed. When I walked on the bedroom carpet it
> > was hot water. I looked at the water heater, an that ain't easy in
> > the dark an nothing. Pulled up the mattress and the bottom was
> > soaked about half way across. My hearing is not good so I asked
the
> > Grandson to come back and listen.. Turned on the water pump and
found
> > where the leak was, then took out the night stand, pulled the
carpet
> > and found the problem.
> >
> > Winter protection strips. I do not know what else these wires
could
> > be. Maybe there are other names, heat tape etc. but true to form
in
> > my Royale conversion these things are not on my drawings, didn't
> > think I had any because of the Wabasto Hydronic heat but I do.
Only
> > from the water pump to the water heater(I hope) encased in the
> > insulation that surrounds the Pex tubing. They are 1/4 in width,
> > copper or brass mesh with two wires inside of that. They have a
> > vulcanized grey tip(I cut one apart)where the two wires are
> > connected. Inside of the two 16 gauge wires are a white fiber
> > substance circular wrapped with hair sized copper wiring similar
to
> > what one would have seen in an early 50's toaster except smaller.
> > One or more of these wired failed for reasons unknown and fried a
two
> > inch long portion of the Pex tubing with water in it. There was
> > evidence this had occurred before because one of the strips was
> > stuck to and had imprinted the Pex tubing all along where I
> > inspected. As well another wire had been capped off and a patch
had
> > been installed in the Pex. I have cut the remaining wires in half
so
> > this cannot happen again. When I get time I will trace them to the
> > source and see how they are hooked up.
> >
> > I wonder this? Why did the fuse system fail?
> > Why did the system operate at 87 degrees F OAT?
> >
> > I know this is windy but had to be detailed. I am convinced this
> > event could have been very serious, burning the bus down and/or
loss
> > of life if it occurred at a different time.
> >
> > There will never be another heat strip in my bus under any
> > circumstance.
> >
> > I will post pictures of the damaged parts when I get them
developed.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > Niceville, FL
> > Got the water pipe hooked up with a little help from the good
friends
> > at Talladega. I'll repair it later.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leroy Eckert]

Ralph: I'll look there but do not ever recall seeing a 110v oulet there on my
coach. You are referring to the vent door on the curb side, right?

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL




----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph L. Fullenwider
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"


They should plug in to 110 vac in the out side refrigerator compartment.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
'84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
Ralph's RV Solutions

At 01:14 AM 5/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>Soo,
>Where do the heat tapes plug in or are the hard wired?
>Bob Lawrence
>84 PT 36
>Tacoma, Wa.
> >
> > Leroy,
> >
> > Thank god you found the problem like you did & not after it started
>a
> > fire. I had one of those old heat tapes short out & actually burn
>the
> > plug connector completely off a heat tape in my coach last winter.
> > Ernie Ekberg told me he had had the same type of experience too
>with his
> > PT40.
> >
> > Good plan for everyone with one of these coaches is to check all of
>the
> > heat tapes on their coach & replace any that look marginal.
> >
> > Myself, I am replacing all of mine. They are all original & after
>25
> > years, they are bound to be just waiting to bite me.
> >
> > Terry Neal
> > Bozeman, MT
> > 82PT40 6V92TA
> > 74FC34 6V53T
> >
> >
> >
> > smquandt wrote:
> >
> > > Leroy
> > >
> > > I have my drawings at home tonight; the only thing that is shown
>on
> > > mine is
> > > what pipes are heated. The manufacturer is listed as Easyheat,
>web site is
> > > http://www.easyheat.com/ <http://www.easyheat.com/> My guess is a
>bad
> > > thermostat on the tape. Glad no
> > > worse than it was. If you want I can scan the drawings at work
> > > tomorrow and
> > > send them to you.
> > >
> > > Steve Quandt
> > >
> > > 1993 PT 40
> > >
> > > Iron Mountain, MI
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leroy Eckert]

Do these things have a breaker or a fuse somewhere by chance. If not, do you
know why not? I do not have any tripped 110v breakers

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL


----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph L. Fullenwider
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"


They should plug in to 110 vac in the out side refrigerator compartment.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
'84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
Ralph's RV Solutions

At 01:14 AM 5/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>Soo,
>Where do the heat tapes plug in or are the hard wired?
>Bob Lawrence
>84 PT 36
>Tacoma, Wa.
> >
> > Leroy,
> >
> > Thank god you found the problem like you did & not after it started
>a
> > fire. I had one of those old heat tapes short out & actually burn
>the
> > plug connector completely off a heat tape in my coach last winter.
> > Ernie Ekberg told me he had had the same type of experience too
>with his
> > PT40.
> >
> > Good plan for everyone with one of these coaches is to check all of
>the
> > heat tapes on their coach & replace any that look marginal.
> >
> > Myself, I am replacing all of mine. They are all original & after
>25
> > years, they are bound to be just waiting to bite me.
> >
> > Terry Neal
> > Bozeman, MT
> > 82PT40 6V92TA
> > 74FC34 6V53T
> >
> >
> >
> > smquandt wrote:
> >
> > > Leroy
> > >
> > > I have my drawings at home tonight; the only thing that is shown
>on
> > > mine is
> > > what pipes are heated. The manufacturer is listed as Easyheat,
>web site is
> > > http://www.easyheat.com/ <http://www.easyheat.com/> My guess is a
>bad
> > > thermostat on the tape. Glad no
> > > worse than it was. If you want I can scan the drawings at work
> > > tomorrow and
> > > send them to you.
> > >
> > > Steve Quandt
> > >
> > > 1993 PT 40
> > >
> > > Iron Mountain, MI
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Leroy with the PEX tubing and heat tapes at 120VAC I would be more
worried about someone getting electrocuted if ever it shorts and
melts thru the tubing and hits the water. Not a good idea unless
everything is connected to a ground fault breaker. Is it?

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 10:12 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
>I donno, yet to be determined. In my case when I find out they will
>never be plugged in again. My greatest fear in a bus is fire.
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Lawrence
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:14 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"
>
>
> Soo,
> Where do the heat tapes plug in or are the hard wired?
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 PT 36
> Tacoma, Wa.
> >
> > Leroy,
> >
> > Thank god you found the problem like you did & not after it started
> a
> > fire. I had one of those old heat tapes short out & actually burn
> the
> > plug connector completely off a heat tape in my coach last winter.
> > Ernie Ekberg told me he had had the same type of experience too
> with his
> > PT40.
> >
> > Good plan for everyone with one of these coaches is to check all of
> the
> > heat tapes on their coach & replace any that look marginal.
> >
> > Myself, I am replacing all of mine. They are all original & after
> 25
> > years, they are bound to be just waiting to bite me.
> >
> > Terry Neal
> > Bozeman, MT
> > 82PT40 6V92TA
> > 74FC34 6V53T
> >
> >
> >
> > smquandt wrote:
> >
> > > Leroy
> > >
> > > I have my drawings at home tonight; the only thing that is shown
> on
> > > mine is
> > > what pipes are heated. The manufacturer is listed as Easyheat,
> web site is
> > > http://www.easyheat.com/ <http://www.easyheat.com/> My guess is a
> bad
> > > thermostat on the tape. Glad no
> > > worse than it was. If you want I can scan the drawings at work
> > > tomorrow and
> > > send them to you.
> > >
> > > Steve Quandt
> > >
> > > 1993 PT 40
> > >
> > > Iron Mountain, MI
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > ] On Behalf Of
> jwasnewski
> > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:30 PM
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-
> "FIRE"
> > >
> > > For some time now I have listened to G. O'Conner's Cause and
> Affect
> > > theories, have agreed with them because it is how I think. Every
> > > problem has a specific cause. Here is mine. I am a very happy
> > > camper today because it could have been much worse with the
> family in
> > > the bus.
> > >
> > > Pulling into Talladega Superspeedway staging center about 8PM
> > > Thursday evening I smelled a heavy rubber or plastic smell. I
> > > checked out all the systems and everything was normal. So I passed
> > > the smell off to the numerous campfires at the Superspeedway. Who
> > > could have known?
> > >
> > > I asked the wife to turn on the waterheater to get the grandkids a
> > > bath while waiting to get into the infield. Genset running
> everything
> > > A OK. I go outside to talk with people milling around while the
> kids
> > > take their shower. It is dark thirty and a cold beer will do
> after a
> > > 5 hour drive. Then I hear what sounds like rain. The guy next door
> > > says it's your a/c. I think it sounds like a flood. In fact water
> > > was running out of all the the bays onto the ground. I ran inside,
> > > shut off the water pump thinking that either a line broke at the
> pump
> > > or the water heater failed. When I walked on the bedroom carpet it
> > > was hot water. I looked at the water heater, an that ain't easy in
> > > the dark an nothing. Pulled up the mattress and the bottom was
> > > soaked about half way across. My hearing is not good so I asked
> the
> > > Grandson to come back and listen.. Turned on the water pump and
> found
> > > where the leak was, then took out the night stand, pulled the
> carpet
> > > and found the problem.
> > >
> > > Winter protection strips. I do not know what else these wires
> could
> > > be. Maybe there are other names, heat tape etc. but true to form
> in
> > > my Royale conversion these things are not on my drawings, didn't
> > > think I had any because of the Wabasto Hydronic heat but I do.
> Only
> > > from the water pump to the water heater(I hope) encased in the
> > > insulation that surrounds the Pex tubing. They are 1/4 in width,
> > > copper or brass mesh with two wires inside of that. They have a
> > > vulcanized grey tip(I cut one apart)where the two wires are
> > > connected. Inside of the two 16 gauge wires are a white fiber
> > > substance circular wrapped with hair sized copper wiring similar
> to
> > > what one would have seen in an early 50's toaster except smaller.
> > > One or more of these wired failed for reasons unknown and fried a
> two
> > > inch long portion of the Pex tubing with water in it. There was
> > > evidence this had occurred before because one of the strips was
> > > stuck to and had imprinted the Pex tubing all along where I
> > > inspected. As well another wire had been capped off and a patch
> had
> > > been installed in the Pex. I have cut the remaining wires in half
> so
> > > this cannot happen again. When I get time I will trace them to the
> > > source and see how they are hooked up.
> > >
> > > I wonder this? Why did the fuse system fail?
> > > Why did the system operate at 87 degrees F OAT?
> > >
> > > I know this is windy but had to be detailed. I am convinced this
> > > event could have been very serious, burning the bus down and/or
> loss
> > > of life if it occurred at a different time.
> > >
> > > There will never be another heat strip in my bus under any
> > > circumstance.
> > >
> > > I will post pictures of the damaged parts when I get them
> developed.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > Niceville, FL
> > > Got the water pipe hooked up with a little help from the good
> friends
> > > at Talladega. I'll repair it later.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Correct. When I first saw them I wasn't concerned because typically those small
wires are not 120v. So, I grabbed ahold of them. That could be a problem for
sure, I think. In addition, the pipes were sitting next to a Romex cable
covered by anti-chaffing tube. That could possible be another problem.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL


----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"


Leroy with the PEX tubing and heat tapes at 120VAC I would be more
worried about someone getting electrocuted if ever it shorts and
melts thru the tubing and hits the water. Not a good idea unless
everything is connected to a ground fault breaker. Is it?

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 10:12 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
>I donno, yet to be determined. In my case when I find out they will
>never be plugged in again. My greatest fear in a bus is fire.
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Lawrence
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:14 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"
>
>
> Soo,
> Where do the heat tapes plug in or are the hard wired?
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 PT 36
> Tacoma, Wa.
> >
> > Leroy,
> >
> > Thank god you found the problem like you did & not after it started
> a
> > fire. I had one of those old heat tapes short out & actually burn
> the
> > plug connector completely off a heat tape in my coach last winter.
> > Ernie Ekberg told me he had had the same type of experience too
> with his
> > PT40.
> >
> > Good plan for everyone with one of these coaches is to check all of
> the
> > heat tapes on their coach & replace any that look marginal.
> >
> > Myself, I am replacing all of mine. They are all original & after
> 25
> > years, they are bound to be just waiting to bite me.
> >
> > Terry Neal
> > Bozeman, MT
> > 82PT40 6V92TA
> > 74FC34 6V53T
> >
> >
> >
> > smquandt wrote:
> >
> > > Leroy
> > >
> > > I have my drawings at home tonight; the only thing that is shown
> on
> > > mine is
> > > what pipes are heated. The manufacturer is listed as Easyheat,
> web site is
> > > http://www.easyheat.com/ <http://www.easyheat.com/> My guess is a
> bad
> > > thermostat on the tape. Glad no
> > > worse than it was. If you want I can scan the drawings at work
> > > tomorrow and
> > > send them to you.
> > >
> > > Steve Quandt
> > >
> > > 1993 PT 40
> > >
> > > Iron Mountain, MI
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > ] On Behalf Of
> jwasnewski
> > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:30 PM
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-
> "FIRE"
> > >
> > > For some time now I have listened to G. O'Conner's Cause and
> Affect
> > > theories, have agreed with them because it is how I think. Every
> > > problem has a specific cause. Here is mine. I am a very happy
> > > camper today because it could have been much worse with the
> family in
> > > the bus.
> > >
> > > Pulling into Talladega Superspeedway staging center about 8PM
> > > Thursday evening I smelled a heavy rubber or plastic smell. I
> > > checked out all the systems and everything was normal. So I passed
> > > the smell off to the numerous campfires at the Superspeedway. Who
> > > could have known?
> > >
> > > I asked the wife to turn on the waterheater to get the grandkids a
> > > bath while waiting to get into the infield. Genset running
> everything
> > > A OK. I go outside to talk with people milling around while the
> kids
> > > take their shower. It is dark thirty and a cold beer will do
> after a
> > > 5 hour drive. Then I hear what sounds like rain. The guy next door
> > > says it's your a/c. I think it sounds like a flood. In fact water
> > > was running out of all the the bays onto the ground. I ran inside,
> > > shut off the water pump thinking that either a line broke at the
> pump
> > > or the water heater failed. When I walked on the bedroom carpet it
> > > was hot water. I looked at the water heater, an that ain't easy in
> > > the dark an nothing. Pulled up the mattress and the bottom was
> > > soaked about half way across. My hearing is not good so I asked
> the
> > > Grandson to come back and listen.. Turned on the water pump and
> found
> > > where the leak was, then took out the night stand, pulled the
> carpet
> > > and found the problem.
> > >
> > > Winter protection strips. I do not know what else these wires
> could
> > > be. Maybe there are other names, heat tape etc. but true to form
> in
> > > my Royale conversion these things are not on my drawings, didn't
> > > think I had any because of the Wabasto Hydronic heat but I do.
> Only
> > > from the water pump to the water heater(I hope) encased in the
> > > insulation that surrounds the Pex tubing. They are 1/4 in width,
> > > copper or brass mesh with two wires inside of that. They have a
> > > vulcanized grey tip(I cut one apart)where the two wires are
> > > connected. Inside of the two 16 gauge wires are a white fiber
> > > substance circular wrapped with hair sized copper wiring similar
> to
> > > what one would have seen in an early 50's toaster except smaller.
> > > One or more of these wired failed for reasons unknown and fried a
> two
> > > inch long portion of the Pex tubing with water in it. There was
> > > evidence this had occurred before because one of the strips was
> > > stuck to and had imprinted the Pex tubing all along where I
> > > inspected. As well another wire had been capped off and a patch
> had
> > > been installed in the Pex. I have cut the remaining wires in half
> so
> > > this cannot happen again. When I get time I will trace them to the
> > > source and see how they are hooked up.
> > >
> > > I wonder this? Why did the fuse system fail?
> > > Why did the system operate at 87 degrees F OAT?
> > >
> > > I know this is windy but had to be detailed. I am convinced this
> > > event could have been very serious, burning the bus down and/or
> loss
> > > of life if it occurred at a different time.
> > >
> > > There will never be another heat strip in my bus under any
> > > circumstance.
> > >
> > > I will post pictures of the damaged parts when I get them
> developed.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > Niceville, FL
> > > Got the water pipe hooked up with a little help from the good
> friends
> > > at Talladega. I'll repair it later.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ryan Wright]

On 4/30/07, Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> My greatest fear in a bus is fire.

Leroy,

You & me both, and I am following this thread with solid interest.
There will be a lot of work ahead of me when I get home. Going to dig
into the archives here to see all of the other things I need to do.

Other than fire, my greatest fear with a vehicle is having one fall on
me when I'm under it. One day it actually happened. Well, I wasn't
under it, but I had a vehicle fall off it's jackstands and careen
toward me while I was laying on a creeper behind it. Car was up on 4
jackstands and one up front failed, just collapsed. ~2800lb car up on
4 stands rated 4500lbs each. That'll teach me to buy jack-stands at
wal-mart. Now I have a set of truck stands rated for >12klbs each and
only use them... (and I didn't buy them at a discount store)

-Ryan

[worktohobby]

Hello,

Industry now uses self regulating heat/trace tape. Not to be confused
with regular resistive loop heat tape controlled via thermostat. As on
our blue birds.

Self regulating tape has two conductors with a temperature sensitive
substrate in between that conducts more and more as the temperature
goes down. Sit an ice cube on a 1" section and only that portion of the
heat tape will get warm. You can also attach thermostat to it to limmit
when it can power up as well. The colder it gets, the more current it
will draw. It can be had with all kinds of protective shiethings, can
be cut to a desired length, pliced together, etc.

This stuff is not cheap, and is vastly superrior to the old stuff. You
may be able to get short (scrap) section from your local insulators,
scrap to them is quite useful in a bus.

On my 1980 bus the heat tape thermostat had failed off, a good thing
judging from the condition of the tape. On my 1987 the heat tape has a
brade about it and is round in shape and in very good physical
condition, I'm hoping this is the self regulating kind but don't really
know.

That reminds me, I should unplug it until I find out...

Regards,

Don Duncan
1987 PT40
Beaverton, Oregon

[Don Bradner]

On mine, there is a 15-amp breaker in the AC panel labeled "Freeze Heaters" that
is off. It is in a pair with another 15-amp for the Instant Hot.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting on the road by satellite from
Lincoln City, Oregon
Headed north

On 4/30/2007 at 9:24 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Do these things have a breaker or a fuse somewhere by chance. If not, do
>you know why not? I do not have any tripped 110v breakers

[Leroy Eckert]

Please do.
Visually, my "heaters" are shiny beautiful except where it smoked which is
melted black carbonized metal. I would like to know how this wire magically
smoked. I did find what I believe to be the circuit breaker(it was not tripped)
and shut it off. I still have not located where they are plugged in.
I do not plan to reinstall these wires. If the subject pipes freeze it is
because the Hydronic heat failed and if I'm in the bus I'll freeze also.

Gotta find matching carpet now or I will get to recarpet the bus.

Thanks for the info.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors
Niceville, FL


----- Original Message -----
From: worktohobby
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Flood-Could Have Been Much Worse-"FIRE"


Hello,

Industry now uses self regulating heat/trace tape. Not to be confused
with regular resistive loop heat tape controlled via thermostat. As on
our blue birds.

Self regulating tape has two conductors with a temperature sensitive
substrate in between that conducts more and more as the temperature
goes down. Sit an ice cube on a 1" section and only that portion of the
heat tape will get warm. You can also attach thermostat to it to limmit
when it can power up as well. The colder it gets, the more current it
will draw. It can be had with all kinds of protective shiethings, can
be cut to a desired length, pliced together, etc.

This stuff is not cheap, and is vastly superrior to the old stuff. You
may be able to get short (scrap) section from your local insulators,
scrap to them is quite useful in a bus.

On my 1980 bus the heat tape thermostat had failed off, a good thing
judging from the condition of the tape. On my 1987 the heat tape has a
brade about it and is round in shape and in very good physical
condition, I'm hoping this is the self regulating kind but don't really
know.

That reminds me, I should unplug it until I find out...

Regards,

Don Duncan
1987 PT40
Beaverton, Oregon





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]