Fuel economy

[Leroy Eckert]

Folks with hydronic heat have trouble figuring mileage. My VMSpc realtime data
shows mileage as follows without the genset and hydronic heat running.
Boost 6, mph 60, mpg 6, on the flat
Boost 6, mph 65, mpg 5.8, on the flat
Boost 20, mph 65, mpg 2.3, pulling a hill
60-65 yields the best mpg. I pull a 20 foot trailer with car and have not found
that mpg is significantly decreased.

bingomaster05 wrote:
Reading the recent posts on bio fuel, made me wonder what kind of fuel
mileage the various unit get. Do the FC's with the Cat do better than
the 6V or 8V Detroits? Do pushers do better than the FC's? What about
Toads..how much does it affect MPG. I would imagine that with Bluebirds
being so heavy, the higher power engines might actually be more
efficent. With the ever rising fuel costs, you have to wonder how it
will affect the future of RVing in general. Thanks in advance.

Dan Thomas
Wannabe
Central PA






Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 "Smoke N Mirrors"
Dahlonega, GA
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John McGinnis]

I get around 8 or more if I don't run the generator. Cost or
comsuption is not the big factor for most bird owners. It's not the
journey, it's the adventure. If I were worried about fuel consumption
or cost of fuel, I'd have my bus on blocks in the back yard and use it
a a spare bedroom for overnight guests. What is important to me is the
security, comfort of my family and the ability to have everything I
need with me when I go on a trip. After spending years on the road and
staying in hundreds of motels I find it more pleasing at the pumps
knowing when I go to bed at night I'm sleeping in my own bed, behind my
own door which only I have the keys to unlock. I'd gladly pay for that
comfort at the pumps. On the other hand I have a 40' houseboat with
twin 360's and a 7.5 Kohler and I get around 1 mile per gallon. Anyone
want to buy a KingsCraft?
John 88FC35 Louisville, KY

[Bob Lawrence]

I get about 5.6 mpg with a 3,500 lb Element toad. We are in the
mountains a lot here out of Seattle.
Bob Lawrence
84 PT36-6v92 with 6,000 miles on a rebuilt engine
On the road fulltime presently in Winnemucca, Nv.


> Reading the recent posts on bio fuel, made me wonder what kind of fuel
> mileage the various unit get. Do the FC's with the Cat do better
than
> the 6V or 8V Detroits? Do pushers do better than the FC's? What
about
> Toads..how much does it affect MPG. I would imagine that with
Bluebirds
> being so heavy, the higher power engines might actually be more
> efficent. With the ever rising fuel costs, you have to wonder how it
> will affect the future of RVing in general. Thanks in advance.
>
> Dan Thomas
> Wannabe
> Central PA
>

[Joe Hagan]

Just another thought, there is approximately 100 sq feet of surface on the front
end of a bus that's pushing against the air that hits the front. Obviously, the
force applied is multiplied with speed - much more resistance at 70 MPH vs. 55
MPH - and more so with headwind. If your wheel-speed is 60 MPH and you are
hitting a 10 MPH headwind, effectively your are applying a 70 MPH force which
the engine is trying to overcome. Conversely, add a 10 MPH tailwind and the
opposite is true. This of course affects fuel consumption.

Do you notice how smooth your coach runs when it's being "pushed down the
road?" A good tailwind is noticeable when climbing a grade - a headwind is more
notable. The transmission notices this as well.


Safe travels.

Pappy
St. George, UT
(Wannabe)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jon]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Joe Hagan
wrote:
>
> Just another thought, there is approximately 100 sq feet of surface
on the front end of a bus that's pushing against the air that hits
the front. Obviously, the force applied is multiplied with speed -
much more resistance at 70 MPH vs. 55 MPH - and more so with
headwind. If your wheel-speed is 60 MPH and you are hitting a 10 MPH
headwind, effectively your are applying a 70 MPH force which the
engine is trying to overcome. Conversely, add a 10 MPH tailwind and
the opposite is true. This of course affects fuel consumption.
>
> Do you notice how smooth your coach runs when it's being "pushed
down the road?" A good tailwind is noticeable when climbing a grade -
a headwind is more notable. The transmission notices this as well.
>
>
> Safe travels.
>
> Pappy



Pappy sounds like a real motor operator should watch the weather to
see which way the winds will be a blowing. What happens when you
back into a forward wind? Jipjob
> St. George, UT
> (Wannabe)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Joe Hagan]

Jon:

You just back-up a little slower....

You're right, weather is a real player in driving, as well as in most
activities.

Joe (Pappy) Hagan
St. George, UT
(Wannabe)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Pete Masterson]

For many decades, railroads with electric locomotives have done this
with "dynamic braking" on down hill grades. One transcontinental
carrier, the CMSTP&P, had sections across the Rocky mountains that
recovered a substantial amount of the energy used going up hill by
the generating output of the locomotives going down hill. However,
the particular carrier, absorbed years ago in mergers, was not
particularly successful and their electrified system was dismantled
due to the aging and dated technology used. I believe that
substantial portions of their track (that paralleled competing lines
that they were merged with) has been pulled up.

Converting the power generated by the magnetic retarder into
batteries would be an interesting engineering challenge. The amount
of current made can be quite significant for short periods of time --
handling it might prove difficult (expensive). Again, looking at
diesel-electric locomotives, most of them convert their dynamic
braking power into heat using massive "toaster grids." There have
been some experimental systems that capture the power into (massive)
battery banks making truly hybrid locomotives ... but this isn't a
mainstream technology yet.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart Texas



On Nov 9, 2007, at 5:16 PM, willwander08 wrote:

> Interesting article regarding the potential for hybrid Class 8.
>
> I am new to the world of Wanderlodge and RVs in general. We just
> purchased a 1983 FC
> 35.
>
> Our Bird is equipped with the four position magnetic transmission
> retarder. A couple days
> ago I was wondering if there would be a way to refit it an direct
> some to that energy to a
> battery bank. I am no engineer. I wonder if anybody else looked
> into this?

[Ryan Wright]

Jon,

On 11/9/07, Jon wrote:
>
> Dan I think the future of these big units will be only for the guys
> who have those extra retirement bucks. Our diesel fuel prices up
> here in Washington are almost 3.60 a gallon and probably going up
> further as I type.

$3.80 a gallon down the street from me. This is getting ridiculous.
Thankfully, I have found a source of used vegetable oil and am going
to process my own bio diesel. That will get my cost down under $1.00 a
gallon from now on.

As for me, my '86 PT-40's (8V92) worst gas mileage so far was 4.13mpg.
That was sailing through Nebraska at 80mph with the generator running
and four A/Cs on full blast. Later in the trip, when I slowed down to
~70mph, I got about 5mpg. I believe if I keep my speed down and am
careful on my next trip I'll be able to coax her closer to 6mpg.
Honestly, for a coach that weighs in at 41,000lbs, that's not half
bad.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92

[willwander08]

Pete,

Thank you for the history and your thoughts. This might be an interesting
problem for an
engineering school.

I'm not smart enough to figure this out but it would be to find a cost effective
way to do it.
Combine this with solar and wind capturing technology and the net gain could be
significant.

Perhaps i will send the Idea off to MIT they might be looking for something to
do.

Bill Garamella
1983 FC 35


-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> For many decades, railroads with electric locomotives have done this
> with "dynamic braking" on down hill grades. One transcontinental
> carrier, the CMSTP&P, had sections across the Rocky mountains that
> recovered a substantial amount of the energy used going up hill by
> the generating output of the locomotives going down hill. However,
> the particular carrier, absorbed years ago in mergers, was not
> particularly successful and their electrified system was dismantled
> due to the aging and dated technology used. I believe that
> substantial portions of their track (that paralleled competing lines
> that they were merged with) has been pulled up.
>
> Converting the power generated by the magnetic retarder into
> batteries would be an interesting engineering challenge. The amount
> of current made can be quite significant for short periods of time --
> handling it might prove difficult (expensive). Again, looking at
> diesel-electric locomotives, most of them convert their dynamic
> braking power into heat using massive "toaster grids." There have
> been some experimental systems that capture the power into (massive)
> battery banks making truly hybrid locomotives ... but this isn't a
> mainstream technology yet.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Lockhart Texas
>
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2007, at 5:16 PM, willwander08 wrote:
>
> > Interesting article regarding the potential for hybrid Class 8.
> >
> > I am new to the world of Wanderlodge and RVs in general. We just
> > purchased a 1983 FC
> > 35.
> >
> > Our Bird is equipped with the four position magnetic transmission
> > retarder. A couple days
> > ago I was wondering if there would be a way to refit it an direct
> > some to that energy to a
> > battery bank. I am no engineer. I wonder if anybody else looked
> > into this?
>

[Ryan Wright]

On 11/9/07, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> America travels to live and lives to travel. It will be interesting
> to see what happens in the next ten years. Could get a bit bumpy.

Not for manufacturers of high end coaches. Nobody who can spend a half
million on a coach should have any concern whatsoever about a grand or
two to fill the tank. For that matter, I don't think it will affect
the lower end class As, either. Even a "cheap" diesel pusher is going
to run $150k+ new. Who drops that kind of coin on a toy, then can't
afford a few grand here and there to operate it?

The guys selling the cheaper rigs, class Cs, etc, may not do so well.
Then again, maybe not. Most of 'em get 8-12mpg and even with gas
prices as high as they are, I still see people driving big V8 powered
4x4s to work every day getting the same mileage.

Myself, I bought a Honda Insight to commute with. 70mpg. I'm only
spending $30 a month to get to work now vs. the $200+ I was spending,
so it's an awful lot easier to pay the big bucks to operate the coach.

-Ryan