Water in fuel

[pattypape]

Donn,

Sorry to stir things up, But I would not recommend putting water into
the fuel tank, I was trying to decide, if these two sensors on some
Birds have value. They mostly give intermittent false alarms.
There are two sensors screwed into the main fuel tank. One for water
and the other for low fuel. If one drains some fuel occationally
and never lets the fuel tank below 1/4 , there seems to be not a lot
of value to these addition, BB over kill sensors.
And Yep, you are correct when draining fuel it is best with the least
amount of fuel in the tank. It is suprising the pressure when
removing a fuel tank plug with a high volume of fuel in the tank.

Bill 88 FC Michigan


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Watson"
wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> What you been drinking? :-)
>
> It was bad enough that you suggested pouring water in your tank,
but then
> "try to run the fuel down until the low fuel light glows"?
Actually you
> could put water in your tank (providing that there is a drain in
the lowest
> part of the tank to easily remove it) if you were that serious
about testing
> a water sensor in your tank, but isn't the sensor in your primary
fuel
> filter? (Pardon me, but I'm not familiar with the '88 FC fuel
system.) You
> could always introduce water into your fuel filter WITHOUT starting
the
> engine to check a water sensor, but then you'd have to prime the
system to
> get rid of air once you had purged the filter of water.
>
> Draining fuel from the bottom of the tank isn't a bad idea. It
does give
> you a chance to clean out some water and sludge, but the task would
be
> easier if your tank was relatively low. There's quite a bit of head
> pressure with a lot of fuel.
>
> Have a good evening and enjoy the TV.
>
> Donn
> 76 FC33
> South Kingstown, RI
>
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pattypape
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:20 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: water in fuel
>
>
>
> Hi Ernie, Ralph, All,
>
> Have anyone changed these sensors on the fuel tank???
> Seems like this could be a real diesel bath.
>
> It also seems that the only real test to check these sensors is to
> dump a couple gallon of water in the tank an see if the alarm
lights.
> Then try to run the fuel down until the low fuel light glows.
> This is really asking for trouble.
> Or I maybe I just have too much extra time tonight and should just
> watch some TV.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> , erniecarpet@ wrote:
> >
> > Don, could you solder a new wire onto that connector?
> >
> > Ernie Ekberg
> > 83PT40
> > Weatherford, Tx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
> shape.
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[pattypape]

Thanks Shane,

Is there anything you have not replaced.????....
I would appreciate the part numbers of the sensors.
It is also good to know the size of the plug.

These sensors just hang out at the bottom of the fuel tank exposed to
road dirt and debris, collecting moisture, and become intermittent,
Gives Ya that weird feeling when the alarm lights start to flicker.

Thanks,

Bill 88 FC Michgian


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "sfedeli3" <sfedeli3@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Have you ever drained some fuel from the bottom of the main tank?
> Each time that I do an oil change, I drain around a gallon of fuel
> from the tank (near the sending unit) and find rust, water and
sludge
> in the bottom of the bucket when I'm done. After everything settles
> out, I re-use the good fuel in the bucket. It is messy. As for
> changing the sending unit, some fuel will splash out when you remove
> the sender- just have the new one ready to go and put your finger
over
> the hole or insert a 1/4" npt plug until you get the new one. I
> removed and replaced mine last summer. If you need part ##'s, let me
> know- they are available on line. And yes, the less fuel that is in
> the tank, the lower the pressure when you remove the sending unit.
>
> Shane Fedeli
> 85PT40
> Hershey, PA
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, dspithaler@ wrote:
> >
> > ?
> >
> >
> > ?Hi Guys
> >
> >
> > ??? Just changed both filters & drained the drains with no water
in
> fuel. I took it for?a short drive &? the water in fuel light on the
> center dash came on. It went on?& off for a while. When I got home I
> checked the sending?unit on the main tank. The wire felt loose like
it
> was bad?in the unit. It is a push on. Does anyone know if this is
the
> unit that is wired to? the center dash on is the?buzzer?on the
> bulkhead wired to it? Can this unit be removed without out draining
> the tank. I don't think there is any water in the tank? I do use a
> water?treatment?in my fuel??
> >
> >
> > Thanks Don
> >
> >
> > 89 SP 36'
> >
> >
> > Butler, PA
> >
> >
> >
> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????
> > #AOLMsgPart_2_4c3579ba-4989-4124-8b5e-6ecc044175f0
> >
> > #AOLMsgPart_2_4c3579ba-4989-4124-8b5e-6ecc044175f0
> >
> > #AOLMsgPart_2_4c3579ba-4989-4124-8b5e-6ecc044175f0
> >
> >
> >
______________________________________________________________________
__
> > Need a free e-mail account? Get one now at Mail.AOL.ca
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Donald Watson]

Good topic for conversation Bill. I hoped that you understood that most of
what I was saying was with 'tongue-in-cheek'. The last couple of decades
have found me working with marine instrumentation. Add salt air and water
to the mix with systems somewhat similar to vintage Wanderlodges and you can
imagine the potential issues. My 76 FC is old enough not to have some of
these later 'bell & whistles' and I've yet to find a primary fuel filter on
my bus, a piece of gear I consider mandatory. I'm most familiar with Racor
and I assume that a 500 series would fit the bill although I better check
flow rates.

In all honesty, there's merit in knowing if any sensor is operating or not.
I don't like having a piece of gear that either doesn't work or I don't
trust.

Donn
76 FC33
South Kingstown, RI


From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pattypape
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:27 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: water in fuel


Donn,

Sorry to stir things up, But I would not recommend putting water into
the fuel tank, I was trying to decide, if these two sensors on some
Birds have value. They mostly give intermittent false alarms.
There are two sensors screwed into the main fuel tank. One for water
and the other for low fuel. If one drains some fuel occationally
and never lets the fuel tank below 1/4 , there seems to be not a lot
of value to these addition, BB over kill sensors.
And Yep, you are correct when draining fuel it is best with the least
amount of fuel in the tank. It is suprising the pressure when
removing a fuel tank plug with a high volume of fuel in the tank.

Bill 88 FC Michigan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[pattypape]

Donn,

Some of the early 3208s NA's had a water separator on the engine.
Our 88 has a model 900 Racor, in the rear near the tank.
There is also an electric fuel pump mounted on the fuel tank.
Turns on with oil pressure, and pushes fuel thru the Racor and
forward to the injection pump.

Bill 88 FC Michgian


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Watson"
wrote:
>
> Good topic for conversation Bill. I hoped that you understood that
most of
> what I was saying was with 'tongue-in-cheek'. The last couple of
decades
> have found me working with marine instrumentation. Add salt air
and water
> to the mix with systems somewhat similar to vintage Wanderlodges
and you can
> imagine the potential issues. My 76 FC is old enough not to have
some of
> these later 'bell & whistles' and I've yet to find a primary fuel
filter on
> my bus, a piece of gear I consider mandatory. I'm most familiar
with Racor
> and I assume that a 500 series would fit the bill although I better
check
> flow rates.
>
> In all honesty, there's merit in knowing if any sensor is operating
or not.
> I don't like having a piece of gear that either doesn't work or I
don't
> trust.
>
> Donn
> 76 FC33
> South Kingstown, RI
>
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pattypape
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:27 AM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: water in fuel
>
>
> Donn,
>
> Sorry to stir things up, But I would not recommend putting water
into
> the fuel tank, I was trying to decide, if these two sensors on some
> Birds have value. They mostly give intermittent false alarms.
> There are two sensors screwed into the main fuel tank. One for
water
> and the other for low fuel. If one drains some fuel occationally
> and never lets the fuel tank below 1/4 , there seems to be not a
lot
> of value to these addition, BB over kill sensors.
> And Yep, you are correct when draining fuel it is best with the
least
> amount of fuel in the tank. It is suprising the pressure when
> removing a fuel tank plug with a high volume of fuel in the tank.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Howard O. Truitt]

Shane,
Please send me the part number for the sending unit and the site you found it
at.
Howard Truit, Camilla, Ga.
86 PT40

----- Original Message -----
From: sfedeli3
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:04 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: water in fuel


Hi Don,

Have you ever drained some fuel from the bottom of the main tank?
Each time that I do an oil change, I drain around a gallon of fuel
from the tank (near the sending unit) and find rust, water and sludge
in the bottom of the bucket when I'm done. After everything settles
out, I re-use the good fuel in the bucket. It is messy. As for
changing the sending unit, some fuel will splash out when you remove
the sender- just have the new one ready to go and put your finger over
the hole or insert a 1/4" npt plug until you get the new one. I
removed and replaced mine last summer. If you need part ##'s, let me
know- they are available on line. And yes, the less fuel that is in
the tank, the lower the pressure when you remove the sending unit.

Shane Fedeli
85PT40
Hershey, PA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, dspithaler@... wrote:
>
> ?
>
>
> ?Hi Guys
>
>
> ??? Just changed both filters & drained the drains with no water in
fuel. I took it for?a short drive &? the water in fuel light on the
center dash came on. It went on?& off for a while. When I got home I
checked the sending?unit on the main tank. The wire felt loose like it
was bad?in the unit. It is a push on. Does anyone know if this is the
unit that is wired to? the center dash on is the?buzzer?on the
bulkhead wired to it? Can this unit be removed without out draining
the tank. I don't think there is any water in the tank? I do use a
water?treatment?in my fuel??
>
>
> Thanks Don
>
>
> 89 SP 36'
>
>
> Butler, PA
>
>
>
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> #AOLMsgPart_2_4c3579ba-4989-4124-8b5e-6ecc044175f0
>
> #AOLMsgPart_2_4c3579ba-4989-4124-8b5e-6ecc044175f0
>
> #AOLMsgPart_2_4c3579ba-4989-4124-8b5e-6ecc044175f0
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Need a free e-mail account? Get one now at Mail.AOL.ca
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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9:14 AM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mbulriss]

Bill,

I wouldn't suggest adding water to test either. I guess that I have
been lucky in that the water-in-fuel sensor in the tank worked on both
my 83PT and my 91. When it went off, I crawled under and drained off
about a pint of water, sludge and fuel, and problem solved, light went
back out. Actually they seemed overly sensitive in my opinion, but
they did do their jobs.

On a couple of long hauls with the 83, the low fuel light did work
also. So it's a good reminder if you are trying to stretch the fuel
run to the next lower cost state before fueling. My memory says that
Jeff Miller once mentioned that one intended use of the low fuel light
was also to warn long term dry campers with diesel generators from
running too low on fuel out in the wilderness. The genset pickup is
also set higher in the fuel tank and shortly after the low fuel light
comes on the generator fuel pickup will no longer be immersed and you
will run the gen set out of fuel. At least that was the attempted
plan. I can verify that worked on the 83 also! =8^)

FWIW,

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
wrote:
>
>
> Donn,
>
> Sorry to stir things up, But I would not recommend putting water into
> the fuel tank, I was trying to decide, if these two sensors on some
> Birds have value. They mostly give intermittent false alarms.
> There are two sensors screwed into the main fuel tank. One for water
> and the other for low fuel. If one drains some fuel occationally
> and never lets the fuel tank below 1/4 , there seems to be not a lot
> of value to these addition, BB over kill sensors.
> And Yep, you are correct when draining fuel it is best with the least
> amount of fuel in the tank. It is suprising the pressure when
> removing a fuel tank plug with a high volume of fuel in the tank.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Watson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > What you been drinking? :-)
> >
> > It was bad enough that you suggested pouring water in your tank,
> but then
> > "try to run the fuel down until the low fuel light glows"?
> Actually you
> > could put water in your tank (providing that there is a drain in
> the lowest
> > part of the tank to easily remove it) if you were that serious
> about testing
> > a water sensor in your tank, but isn't the sensor in your primary
> fuel
> > filter? (Pardon me, but I'm not familiar with the '88 FC fuel
> system.) You
> > could always introduce water into your fuel filter WITHOUT starting
> the
> > engine to check a water sensor, but then you'd have to prime the
> system to
> > get rid of air once you had purged the filter of water.
> >
> > Draining fuel from the bottom of the tank isn't a bad idea. It
> does give
> > you a chance to clean out some water and sludge, but the task would
> be
> > easier if your tank was relatively low. There's quite a bit of head
> > pressure with a lot of fuel.
> >
> > Have a good evening and enjoy the TV.
> >
> > Donn
> > 76 FC33
> > South Kingstown, RI
> >
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pattypape
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:20 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: water in fuel
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ernie, Ralph, All,
> >
> > Have anyone changed these sensors on the fuel tank???
> > Seems like this could be a real diesel bath.
> >
> > It also seems that the only real test to check these sensors is to
> > dump a couple gallon of water in the tank an see if the alarm
> lights.
> > Then try to run the fuel down until the low fuel light glows.
> > This is really asking for trouble.
> > Or I maybe I just have too much extra time tonight and should just
> > watch some TV.
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > , erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Don, could you solder a new wire onto that connector?
> > >
> > > Ernie Ekberg
> > > 83PT40
> > > Weatherford, Tx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
> > shape.
> > > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> > NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[pattypape]

Thanks Mike,

I do drain fuel occationally and the water in fuel lights-up
rarely , So, possibly a sensitive sensor.
Good info, about the down tube for gennie fuel.

Bill 88 FC Michigan


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I wouldn't suggest adding water to test either. I guess that I have
> been lucky in that the water-in-fuel sensor in the tank worked on
both
> my 83PT and my 91. When it went off, I crawled under and drained
off
> about a pint of water, sludge and fuel, and problem solved, light
went
> back out. Actually they seemed overly sensitive in my opinion, but
> they did do their jobs.
>
> On a couple of long hauls with the 83, the low fuel light did work
> also. So it's a good reminder if you are trying to stretch the fuel
> run to the next lower cost state before fueling. My memory says
that
> Jeff Miller once mentioned that one intended use of the low fuel
light
> was also to warn long term dry campers with diesel generators from
> running too low on fuel out in the wilderness. The genset pickup is
> also set higher in the fuel tank and shortly after the low fuel
light
> comes on the generator fuel pickup will no longer be immersed and
you
> will run the gen set out of fuel. At least that was the attempted
> plan. I can verify that worked on the 83 also! =8^)
>
> FWIW,
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Donn,
> >
> > Sorry to stir things up, But I would not recommend putting water
into
> > the fuel tank, I was trying to decide, if these two sensors on
some
> > Birds have value. They mostly give intermittent false alarms.
> > There are two sensors screwed into the main fuel tank. One for
water
> > and the other for low fuel. If one drains some fuel
occationally
> > and never lets the fuel tank below 1/4 , there seems to be not a
lot
> > of value to these addition, BB over kill sensors.
> > And Yep, you are correct when draining fuel it is best with the
least
> > amount of fuel in the tank. It is suprising the pressure when
> > removing a fuel tank plug with a high volume of fuel in the tank.
> >
> > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Watson"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > What you been drinking? :-)
> > >
> > > It was bad enough that you suggested pouring water in your
tank,
> > but then
> > > "try to run the fuel down until the low fuel light glows"?
> > Actually you
> > > could put water in your tank (providing that there is a drain
in
> > the lowest
> > > part of the tank to easily remove it) if you were that serious
> > about testing
> > > a water sensor in your tank, but isn't the sensor in your
primary
> > fuel
> > > filter? (Pardon me, but I'm not familiar with the '88 FC fuel
> > system.) You
> > > could always introduce water into your fuel filter WITHOUT
starting
> > the
> > > engine to check a water sensor, but then you'd have to prime
the
> > system to
> > > get rid of air once you had purged the filter of water.
> > >
> > > Draining fuel from the bottom of the tank isn't a bad idea. It
> > does give
> > > you a chance to clean out some water and sludge, but the task
would
> > be
> > > easier if your tank was relatively low. There's quite a bit of
head
> > > pressure with a lot of fuel.
> > >
> > > Have a good evening and enjoy the TV.
> > >
> > > Donn
> > > 76 FC33
> > > South Kingstown, RI
> > >
> > >
> > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pattypape
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:20 PM
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: water in fuel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ernie, Ralph, All,
> > >
> > > Have anyone changed these sensors on the fuel tank???
> > > Seems like this could be a real diesel bath.
> > >
> > > It also seems that the only real test to check these sensors is
to
> > > dump a couple gallon of water in the tank an see if the alarm
> > lights.
> > > Then try to run the fuel down until the low fuel light glows.
> > > This is really asking for trouble.
> > > Or I maybe I just have too much extra time tonight and should
just
> > > watch some TV.
> > >
> > > Bill 88 FC Michigan
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > , erniecarpet@
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don, could you solder a new wire onto that connector?
> > > >
> > > > Ernie Ekberg
> > > > 83PT40
> > > > Weatherford, Tx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
> > > shape.
> > > > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> > > NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

I can attest to the high-pressure through the drain petcock -- I
'clipped' mine off on a high-spot in an unpaved part of an RV park
(what turned out to be a "non-road"). Having filled the tank less
than 100 miles earlier, fuel poured quickly from the bent and broken
spigot! Some fast thinking by the RV Park owner saved the day ... he
crawled under and plugged the leak by carving a small twig he found
on the ground. (The sludge trap in the bottom of the tank did get
well cleaned out.) Emergency Road Service was able to make a more
permanent fix by removing the damaged petcock valve and putting an
NPT cap over the fitting.

Let's just say I learned a variety of lessons on that day...

While I've had no troubles with the tank sensors on my 'bird, I do
get spurious signals from the water-in-filter sensor. I always drain
a few ounces from the Racor at the beginning of each travel day. But
the alarm would come on and go off without any reason that I could
find. (There's never been any detectable water in the Racor.)

Eventually, I disconnected the wires from the audible alarm, but I've
left the tiny signal light connected. It still flickers on and off
randomly.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
aeonix1@...



On Jan 11, 2008, at 5:26 AM, pattypape wrote:

>
> <snip>
> And Yep, you are correct when draining fuel it is best with the least
> amount of fuel in the tank. It is suprising the pressure when
> removing a fuel tank plug with a high volume of fuel in the tank.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]