Residential fridges

[erniecarpet@...]

Bruce, my propane refer died 3 years ago. Went to Lowes and bought a small apartment size and haven't looked back. I can go about 4 hours before I need to run the generator. For 375 bucks, I can buy 4 of those for the price of one of the propane jobs. Works for us as we don't dry camp. With just 4 batteries all tied together for house and engine, there is no power for all the rest of my "stuff"

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, Tx

blasting off for the frozen north around the 16th of Feb

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[erniecarpet@...]

Don, I went to the link about those sunfrost refers. They sure are expensive. Of course, perhaps you get what you pay for?

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, Tx

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[erniecarpet@...]

In a message dated 2/6/2008 7:29:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, tjhannink@... writes:

I did have to make a door lock for it

TJ, on my residential type, I attack a bungee cord over the door to keep everything from spilling out.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, Tx

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[erniecarpet@...]

In a message dated 2/6/2008 8:12:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, jaxdon@... writes:

month trip. Emergency time! We went to Home Depot
and bought a 2.5cuft Bar type. Strapped it to the dinette table with
a motorcycle tiedown,

Jack, that reminded me of our 2003 RIV. Before we left home, my refer acted weird. Strapped a small one from Home Depot to the table. Same trip we had a water leak and all the carpet was draped over our Yukon while we were parked at RIV. We looked like a bunch of vagabonds. But- we had a blast.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, Tx

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[birdshill123]

House type fridges are becoming more prevelant all the time. Having
owned a ton of RV's over the years with propane units I can certainly
see why. The propane fridges have a short life span, are very
expensive, lots of board problems, expensive to repair, cooling
troubles when not level or in extreme heat and small interiors. Modern
refrigerators are very energy efficient and do not need the starting
current of yesteryear. I was told by an upper level mgr. at Fleetwood
that they expect Dometic and Norcold will have house type fridges in
the near future as they are loosing sales to domestic mfrs. When
looking at some BB's advertised on the net I see some mid 90's units
with house fridges. These are older fridges and not super efficient. I
would like to hear from BB owners with this option? Are you pleased
with the fridge? Do you have problesm when boondocking for a few days?
What does BB supply for battery power and invereter size with this
option? Any problems?

Thanks

Bruce
1988 FC35

[Steve Pfiffner]

Bruce,

The ammonia refrigeration cycle is very old and reliable technology.
The problem is
simply the refusal of Dometic and Norcold to build the coils out of
stainless steel as
is always done in commercial applications. Were they to do that the
units would last
a lifetime. See why they don't?

Steve
BB Wannabee

----Original Message----
From: birdshill123@...
Date: 02/06/2008 15:28
To:
Subj: [WanderlodgeForum] Residential fridges

House type fridges are becoming more prevelant all the time. Having
owned a ton of RV's over the years with propane units I can certainly
see why. The propane fridges have a short life span, are very
expensive, lots of board problems, expensive to repair, cooling
troubles when not level or in extreme heat and small interiors.

Thanks

Bruce
1988 FC35




Yahoo! Groups Links

[Don Bradner]

Talking with a friend today about refrigerators and he was saying that he would
go electric if he could get efficient enough, so I mentioned Sun Frost. Anybody
ever hear of one in an RV? (I haven't)

http://www.sunfrost.com/refrigerator_specs.html

10 cubic feet drawing 1 amp per hour, average, at 12 volts at 70 degrees. 1.6
amps at 90 degrees.

I know a guy who had them build, for his house, a walk-in freezer that runs
nicely on his combo of wind/sun/hydro on a ranch.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by satellite from Quartzsite

[Dorn Hetzel]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the fridge/freezer solutions from sailboats, etc make their way into the RV market someday...

(cold plates, eutectic solutions, etc) so that cold can be held a loooooong time between power availability.


Regards,

Dorn Hetzel
77FC35
Hogansville, GA

On Feb 6, 2008 5:07 PM, Don Bradner <"bluethunder@arcatapet.com"> wrote:

Talking with a friend today about refrigerators and he was saying that he would go electric if he could get efficient enough, so I mentioned Sun Frost. Anybody ever hear of one in an RV? (I haven't)



http://www.sunfrost.com/refrigerator_specs.html



10 cubic feet drawing 1 amp per hour, average, at 12 volts at 70 degrees. 1.6 amps at 90 degrees.



I know a guy who had them build, for his house, a walk-in freezer that runs nicely on his combo of wind/sun/hydro on a ranch.



Don Bradner

90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

Posting today by satellite from Quartzsite

[Don Bradner]

Pretty much. All custom jobs, so fairly low-volume operation. The husband of one
of my managers was the third employee of that company back when they started,
eventually was production manager, although he has moved on to other employment,
so I used to hear a lot about their stuff.

Comparable sizes in Propane refers are also pricey - at least 75% of what a Sun
Frost would cost, I think.

On 2/6/2008 at 6:31 PM erniecarpet@... wrote:

>Don, I went to the link about those sunfrost refers. They sure are
>expensive. Of course, perhaps you get what you pay for?
>
>Ernie Ekberg
>83PT40
>Weatherford, Tx
>
>
>
>
>**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/ne...00000\
25
>48)

[Pete Masterson]

I'm blessed/cursed with an all-electric coach (no LP gas on board).

Blessed: 

- Huge 22 cu ft home-style double-door side-by-side refrigerator with ice maker (and through the door chilled water/ice dispenser). Large freezer capacity. Very convenient. (Wife is happy -- that's worth a _lot_.)

- No LP gas to deal with -- no fuel lines, no leaks, no tanks to 'recertify' (or argue about), no extra fuel stops.

- No cooking fumes and related vents -- less cold can penetrate in winter/snow country situations.

- Microwave/convection oven. Microwave runs from inverter when other power isn't available. Convection setting also runs from inverter, but is not advisable, due to heavy current load. Microwave draw is significant, but most items are heated in a rather short time, so the power used isn't excessive.

Curse:

- Must have shore power or generator to operate cook-top to prepare meals. This has proved to be a problem in California State Parks where a "quiet time" policy runs from 8PM to 10AM every day. Less of a problem in other boondocking situations where the generator may be run as late as 10PM and after 8AM. (I also don't have a problem turning on the generator at 6AM in a Walmart parking lot, especially if we're far from neighboring homes, etc.)

- Refrigerator pulls down batteries fairly quickly. Batteries are drawn down to recharge point after only about 10 to 12 hours. Usually not a problem, as power is needed to run the cook top (to prepare breakfast). My usual approach is to run the generator for breakfast (for a couple hours to charge up the batteries) then again at dinner (starting a bit early if the batteries appear to be 'down' before our regular dinner time). Quiet again -- then run for a couple hours in the evening up to the start of quiet time so the batteries will be as fully charged as possible for the overnight period. However, with the extended "quiet time" in CA State Parks, it _is_ a problem. A February stay in a coastal park was very unpleasant (and cold) in the morning waiting for quiet time to end. The batteries were so low that we had to turn off all unnecessary loads, including the _heat_ as the fans and pumps in the AquaHot system use the battery power... (Note: this occurred with the original batteries that had been improperly charged and weren't able to hold their charge.)

- Refrigerator replacement will be very difficult and expensive, including the need to remove a window to move old and new refrigerators in/out of the coach. (Refrigerator had freon "recharged" by the previous owner, but from the amount it runs, it may need further attention or replacement.)

- Electric cooktop is only 120 volts -- so it's a little slow to heat up. It does, eventually, get as hot as 'normal' electric ranges. This is a minor problem and a matter of simply adjusting cooking technique to accommodate.

- Inadvertent use of convection oven while on inverter can draw down the house batteries in a flash!

(Not a problem as we rarely use the convection feature.)

Support systems:

- Coach has dual 2500 watt inverters. The previous owner upgraded the inverters and controller to (newer) Heart Freedom inverters with Link 2000R controller. (The original Inverters were also Heart Freedom.)

- Six model 4D AGM-type batteries supply the house systems. These are rated at 220 amp hours each. Model 4D batteries are very large (and in AGM fairly expensive). A set of 6 cost nearly $2000, delivered. While the previous owner had replaced them, so the batteries with the coach weren't more than about 2 years old, the controller had been reset to default (wet cell assumed) and had overcharged them for the 6 months while the coach was in various dealer's hands. As received, the house batteries weren't holding their charge, as expected, so had to be replaced.

- 15kw PowerTech generator. It's fairly solid and has good performance. It's able to provide the full 50 amp power required to run all systems normally without serious worry about load management. Once, I had a problem while "boondocking" at a vendor who was installing some new cabinetry. The generator cooling fan for the radiator failed... and I had no power to recharge the batteries. Eventually, I had to run the main engine to run the alternator to keep the batteries up and the refrigerator cold. (The Link 2000R manages the output of the engine alternator to control proper battery charging.) While the replacement batteries are better than the mistreated AGMs, they're not _significantly_ better.

Opinion:

- This coach is not that pleasant to boondock with -- it's possible, but it requires somewhat more planning* to ensure that batteries aren't allowed to run down. (If it were possible to have a couple more batteries, I'd add them -- but there's no space.) Most of the time I seek an RV park or other place where I can get shore power, even for single overnight stops -- just to not have to listen to the generator so much... (We also use an electric blanket to minimize using the furnace during the night -- and that is most certainly not an item to run from the inverter, even though the net power use isn't that high.)

*I've come to realize that the refrigerator/inverters can be turned off during the night to help preserve the batteries. If the refrigerator isn't being opened, it will hold its temperature with minimal rise for several hours. Turning off the inverters will remove the overhead load they add ... then only 12v system would be available (mostly lights) but that would be sufficient. I haven't had an opportunity to try this, yet, to see just how effective it might be to lengthening the time before the batteries need to be charged.

I believe that the situation would be slightly better with a up-to-date refrigerator -- but the essential problem is that the refrigeration is the major battery draw and even the newest, most efficient refrigerator may not offer _that_ much improvement over the originally installed unit, which was a relatively decent performer for its time. 

Indeed, the electric cooktop is more of a boondocking problem than the refrigerator, since 120 vac power is an absolute requirement to operate it, whether from the generator or shore power.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:28 PM, birdshill123 wrote:

House type fridges are becoming more prevelant all the time.<snip> 

When 

looking at some BB's advertised on the net I see some mid 90's units 

with house fridges. These are older fridges and not super efficient. I 

would like to hear from BB owners with this option? Are you pleased 

with the fridge? Do you have problesm when boondocking for a few days? 

What does BB supply for battery power and invereter size with this 

option? Any problems?

<snip>