Chassis heat problems

[Don Bradner]

The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool when the slide is in
the cool position, but I can see where manual override might be needed.

Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for anyone
following this thread I've put up a picture with components labeled, here:
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg

When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of coolant! I'm
guessing that is because the top of the radiator is higher still. Couldn't stop
the flow, because the gasket got ripped/destroyed in the removal. I wouldn't
want to try to remove either valve without draining a lot, first!

On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Shane may have a different theory.
>Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first place may
>be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in summer. I
>never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans are off as
>are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents than the
>chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the gate
>valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
>
>My valves bottom and top out.
>
>I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can see how I
>could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat housing
>without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on my coach
>is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>Royale Conversion
>
>Don Bradner wrote:
>Three questions:
>
> Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
>
> Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine do)?
>
> Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to remove
>the valves?
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
>
> >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn confounded
> >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
> >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
> >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just some "preventative"
> >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> >
> >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> >>
> >> Don Bradner
> >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> >> Eureka, CA
> >>
> >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Don,
> >> >
> >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even though the
> >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front heat
> >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
> >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and still
> >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water pump
> >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
> >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
> >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
> >> >valves.
> >> >
> >> >Shane Fedeli
> >> >85PT40
> >> >Hershey, PA
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
>now.

[Leroy Eckert]

I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your photo and looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in parts unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something is interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is actually pumping properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA

Don Bradner wrote:

The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool when the slide is in the cool position, but
I can see where manual override might be needed.

Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for anyone following this thread I've put up a picture with components labeled, here:
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg

When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator is higher still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got ripped/destroyed in the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve without draining a lot, first!

On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Shane may have a different theory.
>Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first place may
>be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in summer. I
>never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans
are off as
>are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents than the
>chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the gate
>valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
>
>My valves bottom and top out.
>
>I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can see how I
>could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat housing
>without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on my coach
>is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>Royale Conversion
>
>Don Bradner <"bluethunder%40arcatapet.com"> wrote:
>Three questions:
>
> Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
>

> Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine do)?
>
> Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to remove
>the valves?
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
>
> >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn confounded
> >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
> >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
> >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just some "preventative"
> >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> >
> >-- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Don Bradner"
> >...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> >>
> >> Don Bradner
> >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

> >> Eureka, CA
> >>
> >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Don,
> >> >
> >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even though the
> >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front heat
> >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
> >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and still
> >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water pump
> >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
> >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
> >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
> >> >valves.
> >> >
> >> >Shane
Fedeli
> >> >85PT40
> >> >Hershey, PA
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
>now.

---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Don Bradner]

I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very familiar with
(sold a lot of that design over the years), and is mighty simple. So long as it
turns easily (it does) and has no broken blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to
go wrong. This design has no problems with blockages - it will turn freely
without pumping anything.

On 3/16/2008 at 3:28 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your photo and
>looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in parts
>unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something is
>interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is actually pumping
>properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>
>Don Bradner wrote:
>The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool when the slide
>is in the cool position, but I can see where manual override might be
>needed.
>
> Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for anyone
>following this thread I've put up a picture with components labeled, here:
> http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
>
> When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of
>coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator is higher
>still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got ripped/destroyed in
>the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve without
>draining a lot, first!
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >Shane may have a different theory.
> >Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first place may
> >be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in summer. I
> >never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans are off as
> >are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents than the
> >chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the gate
> >valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
> >
> >My valves bottom and top out.
> >
> >I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can see how I
> >could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat housing
> >without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on my coach
> >is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
> >
> >Leroy Eckert
> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >Dahlonega, GA
> >Royale Conversion
> >
> >Don Bradner wrote:
>
> >Three questions:
> >
> > Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
> >
> > Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine do)?
> >
> > Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to remove
> >the valves?
> >
> > On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >
> > >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn confounded
> > >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
> > >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
> > >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just some "preventative"
> > >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> > >
> > >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> > >>
> > >> Don Bradner
> > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > >> Eureka, CA
> > >>
> > >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hi Don,
> > >> >
> > >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even though
>the
> > >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front
>heat
> > >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
> > >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and
>still
> > >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water
>pump
> > >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
> > >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
> > >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
> > >> >valves.
> > >> >
> > >> >Shane Fedeli
> > >> >85PT40
> > >> >Hershey, PA
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
>it
> >now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[pattypape]

Don,

This is a far out possibility, but, searching for an explanation.
I have found some strange wireing errors on my Bird. These Birds
were hand wired , and easy to make a mistake, with color-coding and
thousands of connections.
So, My suggestion is to check the polarity of the 12 volts, the pump
may be turning in reverse.

Bill 88 FC Michigan

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very
familiar with (sold a lot of that design over the years), and is
mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no broken
blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has no
problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping
anything.
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 3:28 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your
photo and
> >looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in
parts
> >unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something is
> >interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is actually
pumping
> >properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?
> >
> >Leroy Eckert
> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >Dahlonega, GA
> >
> >Don Bradner wrote:
> >The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool when
the slide
> >is in the cool position, but I can see where manual override might
be
> >needed.
> >
> > Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for
anyone
> >following this thread I've put up a picture with components
labeled, here:
> > http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
> >
> > When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of
> >coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator is
higher
> >still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got
ripped/destroyed in
> >the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve without
> >draining a lot, first!
> >
> > On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
> >
> > >Shane may have a different theory.
> > >Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first
place may
> > >be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in
summer. I
> > >never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans
are off as
> > >are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents
than the
> > >chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the
gate
> > >valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
> > >
> > >My valves bottom and top out.
> > >
> > >I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can
see how I
> > >could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat
housing
> > >without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on
my coach
> > >is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
> > >
> > >Leroy Eckert
> > >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > >Dahlonega, GA
> > >Royale Conversion
> > >
> > >Don Bradner wrote:
> >
> > >Three questions:
> > >
> > > Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
> > >
> > > Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine
do)?
> > >
> > > Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to
remove
> > >the valves?
> > >
> > > On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
> > >
> > > >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn
confounded
> > > >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
> > > >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
> > > >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just
some "preventative"
> > > >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> > > >
> > > >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> > > >>
> > > >> Don Bradner
> > > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > > >> Eureka, CA
> > > >>
> > > >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >Hi Don,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
though
> >the
> > > >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My
front
> >heat
> > > >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire
loop,
> > > >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump
and
> >still
> > > >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the
water
> >pump
> > > >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down
position. The
> > > >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle,
nothing
> > > >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves
with ball
> > > >> >valves.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Shane Fedeli
> > > >> >85PT40
> > > >> >Hershey, PA
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try
> >it
> > >now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>

[Leroy Eckert]

For info.
One thing that I learned working on the climate control of my old MBZ is I never drain the radiator because the system is a pain to purge. It also has a aux water pump. I simply pull the hose off and plug it with a rubber plug or cork. I did the same when I had to change the pump on my Webasto. Minimal fluid loss.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA

Don Bradner wrote:

I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very familiar with (sold a lot of that design
over the years), and is mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no broken blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has no problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping anything.

On 3/16/2008 at 3:28 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your photo and
>looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in parts
>unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something is
>interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is actually pumping
>properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>
>Don Bradner <"bluethunder%40arcatapet.com"> wrote:
>The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool
when the slide
>is in the cool position, but I can see where manual override might be
>needed.
>
> Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for anyone
>following this thread I've put up a picture with components labeled, here:
> http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
>
> When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of
>coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator is higher
>still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got ripped/destroyed in
>the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve without
>draining a lot, first!
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >Shane may have a different theory.
> >Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first place may

> >be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in summer. I
> >never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans are off as
> >are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents than the
> >chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the gate
> >valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
> >
> >My valves bottom and top out.
> >
> >I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can see how I
> >could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat housing
> >without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on my coach
> >is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
> >
> >Leroy Eckert
> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >Dahlonega, GA
> >Royale Conversion
> >
> >Don Bradner
<"bluethunder%40arcatapet.com"> wrote:
>
> >Three questions:
> >
> > Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
> >
> > Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine do)?
> >
> > Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to remove
> >the valves?
> >
> > On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >
> > >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn confounded
> > >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
> > >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
> > >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just some "preventative"
> > >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> > >

> > >-- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Don Bradner"
> > >...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> > >>
> > >> Don Bradner
> > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > >> Eureka, CA
> > >>
> > >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hi Don,
> > >> >
> > >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even though
>the
> > >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front
>heat
> > >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
> > >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and

>still
> > >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water
>pump
> > >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
> > >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
> > >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
> > >> >valves.
> > >> >
> > >> >Shane Fedeli
> > >> >85PT40
> > >> >Hershey, PA
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>---------------------------------
> >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
>it
> >now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Don Bradner]

I've seen a lot of strange wiring as well, but that's not the issue here. Even
if the system hadn't worked fine until a few weeks ago, I did observe the
rotational direction with the head off, and it is correct. This type of pump
will probably move fluid in the right direction when turning the wrong way,
although output will be reduced. It works by "throwing" the water outward from
the center intake to the exterior output. Since the output line is off-center it
is certainly designed to work in one direction, but centrifugal force will still
move it outwards if turning the wrong way.

On 3/16/2008 at 11:23 PM pattypape wrote:

>Don,
>
>This is a far out possibility, but, searching for an explanation.
>I have found some strange wireing errors on my Bird. These Birds
>were hand wired , and easy to make a mistake, with color-coding and
>thousands of connections.
>So, My suggestion is to check the polarity of the 12 volts, the pump
>may be turning in reverse.
>
>Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>>
>> I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very
>familiar with (sold a lot of that design over the years), and is
>mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no broken
>blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has no
>problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping
>anything.
>>
>> On 3/16/2008 at 3:28 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>>
>> >I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your
>photo and
>> >looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in
>parts
>> >unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something is
>> >interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is actually
>pumping
>> >properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?
>> >
>> >Leroy Eckert
>> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>> >Dahlonega, GA
>> >
>> >Don Bradner wrote:
>> >The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool when
>the slide
>> >is in the cool position, but I can see where manual override might
>be
>> >needed.
>> >
>> > Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for
>anyone
>> >following this thread I've put up a picture with components
>labeled, here:
>> > http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
>> >
>> > When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of
>> >coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator is
>higher
>> >still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got
>ripped/destroyed in
>> >the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve without
>> >draining a lot, first!
>> >
>> > On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>> >
>> > >Shane may have a different theory.
>> > >Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first
>place may
>> > >be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in
>summer. I
>> > >never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans
>are off as
>> > >are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents
>than the
>> > >chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the
>gate
>> > >valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
>> > >
>> > >My valves bottom and top out.
>> > >
>> > >I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can
>see how I
>> > >could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat
>housing
>> > >without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on
>my coach
>> > >is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
>> > >
>> > >Leroy Eckert
>> > >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>> > >Dahlonega, GA
>> > >Royale Conversion
>> > >
>> > >Don Bradner wrote:
>> >
>> > >Three questions:
>> > >
>> > > Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
>> > >
>> > > Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine
>do)?
>> > >
>> > > Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to
>remove
>> > >the valves?
>> > >
>> > > On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn
>confounded
>> > > >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
>> > > >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
>> > > >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just
>some "preventative"
>> > > >maintenance that I had elected to do.
>> > > >
>> > > >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Don Bradner
>> > > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> > > >> Eureka, CA
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> >Hi Don,
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
>though
>> >the
>> > > >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My
>front
>> >heat
>> > > >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire
>loop,
>> > > >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump
>and
>> >still
>> > > >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the
>water
>> >pump
>> > > >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down
>position. The
>> > > >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle,
>nothing
>> > > >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves
>with ball
>> > > >> >valves.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >Shane Fedeli
>> > > >> >85PT40
>> > > >> >Hershey, PA
>> > > >> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >------------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >---------------------------------
>> > >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
>Mobile. Try
>> >it
>> > >now.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------
>> >Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
>Yahoo! Search.
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[cfogleman@...]

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Don Bradner"

Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:38:13
To:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Chassis heat problems


I've seen a lot of strange wiring as well, but that's not the issue here. Even
if the system hadn't worked fine until a few weeks ago, I did observe the
rotational direction with the head off, and it is correct. This type of pump
will probably move fluid in the right direction when turning the wrong way,
although output will be reduced. It works by "throwing" the water outward from
the center intake to the exterior output. Since the output line is off-center it
is certainly designed to work in one direction, but centrifugal force will still
move it outwards if turning the wrong way.

On 3/16/2008 at 11:23 PM pattypape wrote:

>Don,
>
>This is a far out possibility, but, searching for an explanation.
>I have found some strange wireing errors on my Bird. These Birds
>were hand wired , and easy to make a mistake, with color-coding and
>thousands of connections.
>So, My suggestion is to check the polarity of the 12 volts, the pump
>may be turning in reverse.
>
>Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>>
>> I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very
>familiar with (sold a lot of that design over the years), and is
>mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no broken
>blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has no
>problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping
>anything.
>>
>> On 3/16/2008 at 3:28 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>>
>> >I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your
>photo and
>> >looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in
>parts
>> >unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something is
>> >interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is actually
>pumping
>> >properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?
>> >
>> >Leroy Eckert
>> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>> >Dahlonega, GA
>> >
>> >Don Bradner wrote:
>> >The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool when
>the slide
>> >is in the cool position, but I can see where manual override might
>be
>> >needed.
>> >
>> > Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference for
>anyone
>> >following this thread I've put up a picture with components
>labeled, here:
>> > http://www.arcatape <http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg>
t.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
>> >
>> > When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons of
>> >coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator is
>higher
>> >still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got
>ripped/destroyed in
>> >the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve without
>> >draining a lot, first!
>> >
>> > On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>> >
>> > >Shane may have a different theory.
>> > >Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the first
>place may
>> > >be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core in
>summer. I
>> > >never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The fans
>are off as
>> > >are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different vents
>than the
>> > >chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine the
>gate
>> > >valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
>> > >
>> > >My valves bottom and top out.
>> > >
>> > >I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can
>see how I
>> > >could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat
>housing
>> > >without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one on
>my coach
>> > >is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another issue.
>> > >
>> > >Leroy Eckert
>> > >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>> > >Dahlonega, GA
>> > >Royale Conversion
>> > >
>> > >Don Bradner wrote:
>> >
>> > >Three questions:
>> > >
>> > > Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
>> > >
>> > > Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine
>do)?
>> > >
>> > > Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to
>remove
>> > >the valves?
>> > >
>> > > On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn
>confounded
>> > > >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
>> > > >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
>> > > >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just
>some "preventative"
>> > > >maintenance that I had elected to do.
>> > > >
>> > > >-- In WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Don Bradner
>> > > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> > > >> Eureka, CA
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> >Hi Don,
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
>though
>> >the
>> > > >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My
>front
>> >heat
>> > > >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire
>loop,
>> > > >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump
>and
>> >still
>> > > >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the
>water
>> >pump
>> > > >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down
>position. The
>> > > >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle,
>nothing
>> > > >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves
>with ball
>> > > >> >valves.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >Shane Fedeli
>> > > >> >85PT40
>> > > >> >Hershey, PA
>> > > >> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >------------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >---------------------------------
>> > >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
>Mobile. Try
>> >it
>> > >now.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------
>> >Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
>Yahoo! Search.
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Don Bradner]

Chris, did you have some input on this problem? Nothing came through except the
quoted message(s).

On 3/17/2008 at 12:18 AM cfogleman@... wrote:

>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Don Bradner"
>
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:38:13
>To:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Chassis heat problems
>
>
>I've seen a lot of strange wiring as well, but that's not the issue here.
>Even if the system hadn't worked fine until a few weeks ago, I did observe
>the rotational direction with the head off, and it is correct. This type
>of pump will probably move fluid in the right direction when turning the
>wrong way, although output will be reduced. It works by "throwing" the
>water outward from the center intake to the exterior output. Since the
>output line is off-center it is certainly designed to work in one
>direction, but centrifugal force will still move it outwards if turning
>the wrong way.

[Leroy Eckert]

Ernie, it is odd. I communicate with a person who uses Blackberry while driving the Autobahn at 100 mph and all is well.
I have received the same message in the past.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA


erniecarpet@... wrote:

Chris Fogleman, when you reply to a post, all that comes thru is the phrase, "sent from my blackberry". Try again, please.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Montana

---

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---

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[sfedeli3]

Hi Don,

Yes, the handle would rotate through to the open and closed stops,
even though the gate was staying closed. It's important to have the
valves for a couple of "foreseeable" issues- a tire blowout that
damages the heater lines, which run pretty close to the tires, a
failure in one of the heater cores and lastly, so that you can drain
the engine without draining the heating system in the event of working
on thermostats, water pump, etc... I put a couple of large aluminum
pans under the coach and just removed the hoses on the valves. This
allowed me to catch almost all of the coolant (which amounts to around
10 gallons for this job). I then re-filtered and re-used it. Most of
the air will work its way out of the system over the course of a few
weeks. I was able to re-fill the system with all but a few gallons
initially and kept topping it off until everything that I had captured
was gone.

Shane Fedeli
85PT40
Hershey, PA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> Three questions:
>
> Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
>
> Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine do)?
>
> Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to
remove the valves?
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
>
> >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn confounded
> >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
> >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
> >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just some "preventative"
> >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> >
> >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> >>
> >> Don Bradner
> >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> >> Eureka, CA
> >>
> >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Don,
> >> >
> >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
though the
> >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My
front heat
> >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
> >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and
still
> >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water
pump
> >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
> >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
> >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
> >> >valves.
> >> >
> >> >Shane Fedeli
> >> >85PT40
> >> >Hershey, PA
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>