Chassis heat problems

[Chris Fogleman]

thank u for that info

Chris E. Fogleman

1 Wanderlodge Way

Fort Valley, GA 31030

Cell: (951) 836-6520

www.thelegacyreturns.com

"cfogleman@completecoach.com"

"cfogleman@bluebirdcoachworks.com"

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erniecarpet@...
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:12 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Chassis heat problems

Chris Fogleman, when you reply to a post, all that comes thru is the phrase, "sent from my blackberry". Try again, please.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Montana

---

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[Don Bradner]

Thanks - I hope to get to those valves soon.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA

On 3/17/2008 at 10:49 AM sfedeli3 wrote:

>Hi Don,
>
> Yes, the handle would rotate through to the open and closed stops,
>even though the gate was staying closed. It's important to have the
>valves for a couple of "foreseeable" issues- a tire blowout that
>damages the heater lines, which run pretty close to the tires, a
>failure in one of the heater cores and lastly, so that you can drain
>the engine without draining the heating system in the event of working
>on thermostats, water pump, etc... I put a couple of large aluminum
>pans under the coach and just removed the hoses on the valves. This
>allowed me to catch almost all of the coolant (which amounts to around
>10 gallons for this job). I then re-filtered and re-used it. Most of
>the air will work its way out of the system over the course of a few
>weeks. I was able to re-fill the system with all but a few gallons
>initially and kept topping it off until everything that I had captured
>was gone.
>
>Shane Fedeli
>85PT40
>Hershey, PA
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>>
>> Three questions:
>>
>> Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
>>
>> Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel (mine do)?
>>
>> Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough to
>remove the valves?
>>
>> On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
>>
>> >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn confounded
>> >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to Kelly
>> >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was purely
>> >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just some "preventative"
>> >maintenance that I had elected to do.
>> >
>> >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
>> >>
>> >> Don Bradner
>> >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> >> Eureka, CA
>> >>
>> >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi Don,
>> >> >
>> >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
>though the
>> >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My
>front heat
>> >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
>> >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and
>still
>> >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water
>pump
>> >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
>> >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
>> >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
>> >> >valves.
>> >> >
>> >> >Shane Fedeli
>> >> >85PT40
>> >> >Hershey, PA
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
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[pattypape]

Don,
Hmmmmm, this is new good information; runs in reverse and still pumps.
Then it seems like Shane's gate valve input is the thing to check and
Pete's hose blockage another suggestion.

Bill 88 FC Michigan





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> I've seen a lot of strange wiring as well, but that's not the issue
here. Even if the system hadn't worked fine until a few weeks ago, I
did observe the rotational direction with the head off, and it is
correct. This type of pump will probably move fluid in the right
direction when turning the wrong way, although output will be
reduced. It works by "throwing" the water outward from the center
intake to the exterior output. Since the output line is off-center it
is certainly designed to work in one direction, but centrifugal force
will still move it outwards if turning the wrong way.
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 11:23 PM pattypape wrote:
>
> >Don,
> >
> >This is a far out possibility, but, searching for an explanation.
> >I have found some strange wireing errors on my Bird. These Birds
> >were hand wired , and easy to make a mistake, with color-coding
and
> >thousands of connections.
> >So, My suggestion is to check the polarity of the 12 volts, the
pump
> >may be turning in reverse.
> >
> >Bill 88 FC Michigan
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm
very
> >familiar with (sold a lot of that design over the years), and is
> >mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no
broken
> >blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has
no
> >problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping
> >anything.
> >>
> >> On 3/16/2008 at 3:28 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
> >>
> >> >I know you will post the result when you find out. I took your
> >photo and
> >> >looked at mine. If I have a sporlan valve in my system it is in
> >parts
> >> >unknown. Strange. I don't have any other ideas except something
is
> >> >interrupting the flow in the loop assuming the Graco is
actually
> >pumping
> >> >properly. Did you check the Graco for flow on the bench?
> >> >
> >> >Leroy Eckert
> >> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >> >Dahlonega, GA
> >> >
> >> >Don Bradner wrote:
> >> >The front valve on mine should keep the front radiator cool
when
> >the slide
> >> >is in the cool position, but I can see where manual override
might
> >be
> >> >needed.
> >> >
> >> > Both of my gate valves are at similar heights. For reference
for
> >anyone
> >> >following this thread I've put up a picture with components
> >labeled, here:
> >> > http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
> >> >
> >> > When I took the top off the Graco pump I lost nearly 5 gallons
of
> >> >coolant! I'm guessing that is because the top of the radiator
is
> >higher
> >> >still. Couldn't stop the flow, because the gasket got
> >ripped/destroyed in
> >> >the removal. I wouldn't want to try to remove either valve
without
> >> >draining a lot, first!
> >> >
> >> > On 3/16/2008 at 1:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >Shane may have a different theory.
> >> > >Straight through-I guess the theory for the valves in the
first
> >place may
> >> > >be two fold. One to cut off the hot water to the heater core
in
> >summer. I
> >> > >never close mine and have not noticed any difference. The
fans
> >are off as
> >> > >are the slide switch. The hot air blows out of different
vents
> >than the
> >> > >chassis air. Two, if a leak developed forward of the engine
the
> >gate
> >> > >valves would stop the leak until repaired. "???????"
> >> > >
> >> > >My valves bottom and top out.
> >> > >
> >> > >I do not know where the best place to drain is located. I can
> >see how I
> >> > >could change the valve that screws into the right thermostat
> >housing
> >> > >without draining and not have much fluid loss. The other one
on
> >my coach
> >> > >is down low in front of the rear bumper and may be another
issue.
> >> > >
> >> > >Leroy Eckert
> >> > >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >> > >Dahlonega, GA
> >> > >Royale Conversion
> >> > >
> >> > >Don Bradner wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >Three questions:
> >> > >
> >> > > Why replace the valve at all, rather than a straight-through?
> >> > >
> >> > > Did the handle still come to a stop at each end of travel
(mine
> >do)?
> >> > >
> >> > > Where do you drain the coolant in order to get it low enough
to
> >remove
> >> > >the valves?
> >> > >
> >> > > On 3/16/2008 at 4:41 PM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >Good luck! I sure hope it fixes your problem. I was so darn
> >confounded
> >> > > >with mine that I eventually gave up and just listened to
Kelly
> >> > > >complain about cold feet. Finding the dropped gate was
purely
> >> > > >accidental. The R&R on the water pump was just
> >some "preventative"
> >> > > >maintenance that I had elected to do.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Shane, that's a new one, thanks!
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Don Bradner
> >> > > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> >> > > >> Eureka, CA
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> >Hi Don,
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped".
Even
> >though
> >> >the
> >> > > >> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting.
My
> >front
> >> >heat
> >> > > >> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the
entire
> >loop,
> >> > > >> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating
pump
> >and
> >> >still
> >> > > >> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled
the
> >water
> >> >pump
> >> > > >> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down
> >position. The
> >> > > >> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the
handle,
> >nothing
> >> > > >> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4
valves
> >with ball
> >> > > >> >valves.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >Shane Fedeli
> >> > > >> >85PT40
> >> > > >> >Hershey, PA
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >------------------------------------
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >---------------------------------
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[Glenn Allen]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very
familiar with (sold a lot of that design over the years), and is
mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no broken
blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has no
problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping anything.
>

Don,

Since you are familiar with the pump, maybe you can give me some
advice. I have my pump making some noise randomly. I assume it is
bearing noise. Can these pump bearings be repacked, or with the age
on these pumps would I be better off replacing it with a new pump?

Thanks,

Glenn Allen
1986 PT-40
Marietta, GA

[Don Bradner]

That style will always make a significant amount of noise. Hard to tell if yours
is too much, but if/when it becomes too much, replacement would be the proper
choice.

On 3/18/2008 at 1:47 AM Glenn Allen wrote:

>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>>
>> I did not pull and bench test the pump. It is pump design I'm very
>familiar with (sold a lot of that design over the years), and is
>mighty simple. So long as it turns easily (it does) and has no broken
>blades (it doesn't) there isn't much to go wrong. This design has no
>problems with blockages - it will turn freely without pumping anything.
>>
>
>Don,
>
>Since you are familiar with the pump, maybe you can give me some
>advice. I have my pump making some noise randomly. I assume it is
>bearing noise. Can these pump bearings be repacked, or with the age
>on these pumps would I be better off replacing it with a new pump?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Glenn Allen
>1986 PT-40
>Marietta, GA
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[erniecarpet@...]

Don, I don't know about you- but don't you wish your hands and eyes were that of a 13 year old when it comes to working on these small spaces?

Ernie-83PT40 in texas-- who could use, at times, one of my grandkids to help out

---

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

[Don Bradner]

Back for more. Over the past two days I pulled the two gate valves that I show
in the image at
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg

Both looked and operated fine, but I agree a ball valve is much better, so I
replaced them. Not a fun job getting things out, as there isn't much room to
wrench. Had to drop the air conditioning pump down to have room to turn the
right-hand one.

As I was installing the left ball valve, I happened to notice that there was
another valve below the water pump - black with grease, and hard to see - even
harder to get to. It wasn't until I came back to your post, Shane, to make this
post that I happened to read new meaning into the "I've replaced 2 of the 4
valves with ball valves." I assumed you meant 2 gates, 1 Sporlan, 1 Bosch, which
is what I knew I had; now I'm thinking you meant 4 gate valves. Am I missing a
4th gate valve somewhere?

Anyway, I reached down and spun the handle, and spun the handle some more. No
stops, either direction. Sigh. I don't think I could get that valve out without
removing the water pump, which I really don't want to tackle.

So, what I did was to unscrew the top of the valve (a difficult thing in its own
right), and replace the handle/stem/gate with the best of the other two. You can
see it here after replacement, as well as the handle of the left-side ball
valve: http://www.arcatapet.net/image/thirdvalve.jpg

A picture of the valve stems is here:
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/erodedthreads.jpg

On the left is the other "good" valve, and on the right is the bad one from
below the water pump. The threads are just eroded away enough that the gate will
slip somewhat freely on the stem.

Unless I can find another valve to look at, tomorrow will be spent filtering 8
gallons of collected coolant for replacement, then checking for leaks, etc.

On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:

>Hi Don,
>
> My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even though the
> valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front heat
>circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
>replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and still
>no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water pump
>to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
>inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
>would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball
>valves.
>
>Shane Fedeli
>85PT40
>Hershey, PA

[Don Bradner]

That, and I wouldn't mind if the skin on my knuckles were as thick as it was 50
years ago!

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA

On 3/21/2008 at 9:32 PM erniecarpet@... wrote:

>Don, I don't know about you- but don't you wish your hands and eyes were
>that of a 13 year old when it comes to working on these small spaces?
>Ernie-83PT40 in texas-- who could use, at times, one of my grandkids to
>help
>out
>
>
>
>**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
>Home.
>(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement...m0003\
0000000001)

[Gregory OConnor]

Don, the only prob with a ball valve is stress on the pipes that
hold the valve inplace when making the quarter turn to open or
close. if the pipe is not rigid, a mount may help. you got to
wonder; of what value is it to have an inline valve that will end
up failing prior to any need for its use??

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> Back for more. Over the past two days I pulled the two gate valves
that I show in the image at
> http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
>
> Both looked and operated fine, but I agree a ball valve is much
better, so I replaced them. Not a fun job getting things out, as
there isn't much room to wrench. Had to drop the air conditioning
pump down to have room to turn the right-hand one.
>
> As I was installing the left ball valve, I happened to notice that
there was another valve below the water pump - black with grease,
and hard to see - even harder to get to. It wasn't until I came back
to your post, Shane, to make this post that I happened to read new
meaning into the "I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball valves."
I assumed you meant 2 gates, 1 Sporlan, 1 Bosch, which is what I
knew I had; now I'm thinking you meant 4 gate valves. Am I missing a
4th gate valve somewhere?
>
> Anyway, I reached down and spun the handle, and spun the handle
some more. No stops, either direction. Sigh. I don't think I could
get that valve out without removing the water pump, which I really
don't want to tackle.
>
> So, what I did was to unscrew the top of the valve (a difficult
thing in its own right), and replace the handle/stem/gate with the
best of the other two. You can see it here after replacement, as
well as the handle of the left-side ball valve:
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/thirdvalve.jpg
>
> A picture of the valve stems is here:
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/erodedthreads.jpg
>
> On the left is the other "good" valve, and on the right is the bad
one from below the water pump. The threads are just eroded away
enough that the gate will slip somewhat freely on the stem.
>
> Unless I can find another valve to look at, tomorrow will be spent
filtering 8 gallons of collected coolant for replacement, then
checking for leaks, etc.
>
> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
>
> >Hi Don,
> >
> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
though the
> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front
heat
> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and
still
> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water
pump
> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with
ball
> >valves.
> >
> >Shane Fedeli
> >85PT40
> >Hershey, PA
>

[Don Bradner]

The valve(s) are very rigidly attached, and the stress is guaranteed to be far
less than the lateral force needed to break those old fittings free! I had a few
nightmares thinking about the creek I would be up if the nipple between the
valve and the block were to break, but fortunately all of that old steel is
holding up quite well!

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA

On 3/22/2008 at 4:52 AM Gregory OConnor wrote:

>Don, the only prob with a ball valve is stress on the pipes that
>hold the valve inplace when making the quarter turn to open or
>close. if the pipe is not rigid, a mount may help. you got to
>wonder; of what value is it to have an inline valve that will end
>up failing prior to any need for its use??
>
>GregoryO'Connor
>94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>>
>> Back for more. Over the past two days I pulled the two gate valves
>that I show in the image at
>> http://www.arcatapet.net/image/heaterplumbing.jpg
>>
>> Both looked and operated fine, but I agree a ball valve is much
>better, so I replaced them. Not a fun job getting things out, as
>there isn't much room to wrench. Had to drop the air conditioning
>pump down to have room to turn the right-hand one.
>>
>> As I was installing the left ball valve, I happened to notice that
>there was another valve below the water pump - black with grease,
>and hard to see - even harder to get to. It wasn't until I came back
>to your post, Shane, to make this post that I happened to read new
>meaning into the "I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with ball valves."
>I assumed you meant 2 gates, 1 Sporlan, 1 Bosch, which is what I
>knew I had; now I'm thinking you meant 4 gate valves. Am I missing a
>4th gate valve somewhere?
>>
>> Anyway, I reached down and spun the handle, and spun the handle
>some more. No stops, either direction. Sigh. I don't think I could
>get that valve out without removing the water pump, which I really
>don't want to tackle.
>>
>> So, what I did was to unscrew the top of the valve (a difficult
>thing in its own right), and replace the handle/stem/gate with the
>best of the other two. You can see it here after replacement, as
>well as the handle of the left-side ball valve:
>http://www.arcatapet.net/image/thirdvalve.jpg
>>
>> A picture of the valve stems is here:
>http://www.arcatapet.net/image/erodedthreads.jpg
>>
>> On the left is the other "good" valve, and on the right is the bad
>one from below the water pump. The threads are just eroded away
>enough that the gate will slip somewhat freely on the stem.
>>
>> Unless I can find another valve to look at, tomorrow will be spent
>filtering 8 gallons of collected coolant for replacement, then
>checking for leaks, etc.
>>
>> On 3/16/2008 at 11:13 AM sfedeli3 wrote:
>>
>> >Hi Don,
>> >
>> > My guess is that one of your gate valves "dropped". Even
>though the
>> > valve handle is turning, the inner gate is not lifting. My front
>heat
>> >circuit did not work for 3 years. Tried flushing the entire loop,
>> >replacing sporlans, relays, dash switches, circulating pump and
>still
>> >no heat. Finally, removed the gate valve when I pulled the water
>pump
>> >to replace it and saw that the gate was in the down position. The
>> >inner threads had eroded and when you rotated the handle, nothing
>> >would happen to the gate. I've replaced 2 of the 4 valves with
>ball
>> >valves.
>> >
>> >Shane Fedeli
>> >85PT40
>> >Hershey, PA
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>