Sad Safety Reminder

[bubblerboy64]

I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick
change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a pit
which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage door in
front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was their
practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over) the pit
and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil was
changed. The problem being that with an average length or short car
the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would be your
typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the very
real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and told
the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't know
if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was thru
there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person
would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would
worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't covered it
would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a good
option but for the average guy I think you are better off farming out
the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the reality
of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these things
cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our
problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit to
our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring experience
and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude that "I
can still do this".
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC




>
> PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability as
falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do not
allow them.
>
> Pete
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Pete Masterson
> > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles, so
the
> > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see, they were
not
> > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but it
> > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly
sloping
> > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels completely
off
> > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to allow
for that.
> >
> > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're looking
for a
> > new location (for the complete facility) as they've outgrown the
area
> > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the
facilities
> > they have beyond basic necesities.
> >
> > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside (and
wash
> > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --
huge
> > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach
> > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving together).
It
> > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised up with
the
> > things while I was there.)
> >
> > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done next
to
> > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example, the
air
> > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly raised
to
> > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I think
the
> > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and
perhaps
> > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds, builds,
and
> > moves to a new facility.
> >
> > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon -- seeing
how
> > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear what
an
> > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for a pit
for
> > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely to
ever
> > happen).
> >
> > Pete Masterson
> > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > El Sobrante CA
> > aeonix1@...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:
> >
> > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it is), but
> > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before the
> > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I called
Koni
> > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb of
> > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration; consequently,
> > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.
> > >
> > > David Brady
> > > '02 LXi, NC
> > >
> > > bumpersbird wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Pete,
> > >>
> > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks under
the
> > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the coach in
the
> > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the air
bags
> > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.
> > >>
> > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground via the
jacks
> > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it could
easily
> > >> damage the coach.
> > >>
> > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for working
under
> > >> anything.
> > >>
> > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know what
what were
> > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our
coaches and
> > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you don't
mind her.
> > >> You just can't be too careful.
> > >>
> > >> Kurt Horvath
> > >> 95 PT-42
> > >> Fayetteville TN
> > >>
> > > <snip>
> > >
> >
>

[Dorn Hetzel]

Well, I was going to put a fence around it and size it to fit the bird with entrance steps at one end. Probably only make it 4 or 5 feet deep and run a drain to a downhill location so it won't hold water. Thinking about building a "bird house" over the pit later and just having the pit underneath the birds normal parking spot

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM, bubblerboy64 <"jehdds@hotmail.com"> wrote:

I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick

change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a pit

which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage door in

front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was their

practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over) the pit

and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil was

changed. The problem being that with an average length or short car

the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would be your

typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the very

real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and told

the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't know

if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was thru

there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person

would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would

worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't covered it

would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a good

option but for the average guy I think you are better off farming out

the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the reality

of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these things

cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our

problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit to

our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring experience

and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude that "I

can still do this".

John Heckman

central Pa

1973 FC

>

> PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability as

falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do not

allow them.

>

> Pete

>

>

> -------------- Original message ----------------------

> From: Pete Masterson

> > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles, so

the

> > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see, they were

not

> > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but it

> > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly

sloping

> > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels completely

off

> > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to allow

for that.

> >

> > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're looking

for a

> > new location (for the complete facility) as they've outgrown the

area

> > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the

facilities

> > they have beyond basic necesities.

> >

> > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside (and

wash

> > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --

huge

> > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach

> > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving together).

It

> > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised up with

the

> > things while I was there.)

> >

> > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done next

to

> > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example, the

air

> > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly raised

to

> > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I think

the

> > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and

perhaps

> > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds, builds,

and

> > moves to a new facility.

> >

> > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon -- seeing

how

> > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear what

an

> > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for a pit

for

> > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely to

ever

> > happen).

> >

> > Pete Masterson

> > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

> > El Sobrante CA

> > aeonix1@...

> >

> >

> >

> > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:

> >

> > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it is), but

> > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before the

> > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I called

Koni

> > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb of

> > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration; consequently,

> > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.

> > >

> > > David Brady

> > > '02 LXi, NC

> > >

> > > bumpersbird wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Pete,

> > >>

> > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks under

the

> > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the coach in

the

> > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the air

bags

> > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.

> > >>

> > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground via the

jacks

> > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it could

easily

> > >> damage the coach.

> > >>

> > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for working

under

> > >> anything.

> > >>

> > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know what

what were

> > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our

coaches and

> > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you don't

mind her.

> > >> You just can't be too careful.

> > >>

> > >> Kurt Horvath

> > >> 95 PT-42

> > >> Fayetteville TN

> > >>

> > > <snip>

> > >

> >

>

[Stephen Birtles]

the other problem with a pit it is considered a confined space for
industrial purposes
look that little beauty up along with confined space entry gas testing
and a whole myriad of other regulations

Stephen 77fc35
dupreeproducts.com



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dorn Hetzel"
wrote:
>
> Well, I was going to put a fence around it and size it to fit the
bird with
> entrance steps at one end. Probably only make it 4 or 5 feet deep
and run a
> drain to a downhill location so it won't hold water. Thinking about
> building a "bird house" over the pit later and just having the pit
> underneath the birds normal parking spot
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick
> > change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a pit
> > which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage door in
> > front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was their
> > practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over) the pit
> > and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil was
> > changed. The problem being that with an average length or short car
> > the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would be your
> > typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the very
> > real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and told
> > the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't know
> > if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was thru
> > there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person
> > would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would
> > worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't covered it
> > would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a good
> > option but for the average guy I think you are better off farming out
> > the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the reality
> > of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these things
> > cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our
> > problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit to
> > our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring experience
> > and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude that "I
> > can still do this".
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> >
> > >
> > > PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability as
> > falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do not
> > allow them.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > From: Pete Masterson
> > > > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles, so
> > the
> > > > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see, they were
> > not
> > > > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but it
> > > > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly
> > sloping
> > > > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels completely
> > off
> > > > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to allow
> > for that.
> > > >
> > > > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're looking
> > for a
> > > > new location (for the complete facility) as they've outgrown the
> > area
> > > > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the
> > facilities
> > > > they have beyond basic necesities.
> > > >
> > > > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside (and
> > wash
> > > > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --
> > huge
> > > > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach
> > > > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving together).
> > It
> > > > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised up with
> > the
> > > > things while I was there.)
> > > >
> > > > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done next
> > to
> > > > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example, the
> > air
> > > > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly raised
> > to
> > > > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I think
> > the
> > > > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and
> > perhaps
> > > > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds, builds,
> > and
> > > > moves to a new facility.
> > > >
> > > > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon -- seeing
> > how
> > > > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear what
> > an
> > > > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for a pit
> > for
> > > > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely to
> > ever
> > > > happen).
> > > >
> > > > Pete Masterson
> > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > > El Sobrante CA
> > > > aeonix1@
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it is), but
> > > > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before the
> > > > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I called
> > Koni
> > > > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb of
> > > > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration; consequently,
> > > > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brady
> > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > >
> > > > > bumpersbird wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Pete,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks under
> > the
> > > > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the coach in
> > the
> > > > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the air
> > bags
> > > > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground via the
> > jacks
> > > > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it could
> > easily
> > > > >> damage the coach.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for working
> > under
> > > > >> anything.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know what
> > what were
> > > > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our
> > coaches and
> > > > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you don't
> > mind her.
> > > > >> You just can't be too careful.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Kurt Horvath
> > > > >> 95 PT-42
> > > > >> Fayetteville TN
> > > > >>
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Dorn Hetzel]

Well, I guess I could pour the rails level extending over a downhill slope, so the pit was open at the "downhill" end. The bird could be pulled in but would have to be backed out. But, really, since it's just for me privately most of that wouldn't apply...

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Stephen Birtles <"cape0001@hotmail.com"> wrote:

the other problem with a pit it is considered a confined space for

industrial purposes

look that little beauty up along with confined space entry gas testing

and a whole myriad of other regulations



Stephen 77fc35

dupreeproducts.com



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Dorn Hetzel"

wrote:

>

> Well, I was going to put a fence around it and size it to fit the

bird with

> entrance steps at one end. Probably only make it 4 or 5 feet deep

and run a

> drain to a downhill location so it won't hold water. Thinking about

> building a "bird house" over the pit later and just having the pit

> underneath the birds normal parking spot

>

> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:

>

> > I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick

> > change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a pit

> > which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage door in

> > front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was their

> > practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over) the pit

> > and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil was

> > changed. The problem being that with an average length or short car

> > the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would be your

> > typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the very

> > real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and told

> > the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't know

> > if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was thru

> > there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person

> > would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would

> > worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't covered it

> > would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a good

> > option but for the average guy I think you are better off farming out

> > the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the reality

> > of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these things

> > cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our

> > problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit to

> > our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring experience

> > and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude that "I

> > can still do this".

> > John Heckman

> > central Pa

> > 1973 FC

> >

> >

> > >

> > > PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability as

> > falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do not

> > allow them.

> > >

> > > Pete

> > >

> > >

> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------

> > > From: Pete Masterson

> > > > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles, so

> > the

> > > > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see, they were

> > not

> > > > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but it

> > > > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly

> > sloping

> > > > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels completely

> > off

> > > > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to allow

> > for that.

> > > >

> > > > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're looking

> > for a

> > > > new location (for the complete facility) as they've outgrown the

> > area

> > > > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the

> > facilities

> > > > they have beyond basic necesities.

> > > >

> > > > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside (and

> > wash

> > > > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --

> > huge

> > > > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach

> > > > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving together).

> > It

> > > > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised up with

> > the

> > > > things while I was there.)

> > > >

> > > > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done next

> > to

> > > > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example, the

> > air

> > > > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly raised

> > to

> > > > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I think

> > the

> > > > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and

> > perhaps

> > > > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds, builds,

> > and

> > > > moves to a new facility.

> > > >

> > > > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon -- seeing

> > how

> > > > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear what

> > an

> > > > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for a pit

> > for

> > > > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely to

> > ever

> > > > happen).

> > > >

> > > > Pete Masterson

> > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

> > > > El Sobrante CA

> > > > aeonix1@

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it is), but

> > > > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before the

> > > > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I called

> > Koni

> > > > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb of

> > > > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration; consequently,

> > > > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.

> > > > >

> > > > > David Brady

> > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> > > > >

> > > > > bumpersbird wrote:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Pete,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks under

> > the

> > > > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the coach in

> > the

> > > > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the air

> > bags

> > > > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground via the

> > jacks

> > > > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it could

> > easily

> > > > >> damage the coach.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for working

> > under

> > > > >> anything.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know what

> > what were

> > > > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our

> > coaches and

> > > > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you don't

> > mind her.

> > > > >> You just can't be too careful.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Kurt Horvath

> > > > >> 95 PT-42

> > > > >> Fayetteville TN

> > > > >>

> > > > > <snip>

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[PM7088@...]

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "bubblerboy64"
> I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick
> change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a pit


I'm thinking that if my home had enough property, I build a set of 10" ramps to
drive onto. That would allow me to crawl under and do most maintainance that I
will do.

Pete

[Rob Robinson]

I would construct any pit so that you are able to exit from either end in case of an emergency. A fire (eg welding) can block an exit. Make it long enough and with stairs/ladders on each end.

2008/6/10 Dorn Hetzel <"dhetzel@gmail.com">:

Well, I guess I could pour the rails level extending over a downhill slope, so the pit was open at the "downhill" end. The bird could be pulled in but would have to be backed out. But, really, since it's just for me privately most of that wouldn't apply...

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Stephen Birtles <"cape0001@hotmail.com"> wrote:

the other problem with a pit it is considered a confined space for
industrial purposes
look that little beauty up along with confined space entry gas testing
and a whole myriad of other regulations

Stephen 77fc35

dupreeproducts.com

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Dorn Hetzel"

wrote:

>
> Well, I was going to put a fence around it and size it to fit the
bird with
> entrance steps at one end. Probably only make it 4 or 5 feet deep
and run a
> drain to a downhill location so it won't hold water. Thinking about

> building a "bird house" over the pit later and just having the pit
> underneath the birds normal parking spot
>

> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick
> > change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a pit

> > which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage door in
> > front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was their
> > practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over) the pit

> > and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil was
> > changed. The problem being that with an average length or short car
> > the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would be your

> > typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the very
> > real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and told
> > the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't know

> > if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was thru
> > there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person
> > would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would

> > worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't covered it
> > would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a good
> > option but for the average guy I think you are better off farming out

> > the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the reality
> > of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these things
> > cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our

> > problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit to
> > our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring experience
> > and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude that "I

> > can still do this".
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> >
> > >
> > > PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability as

> > falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do not
> > allow them.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------

> > > From: Pete Masterson
> > > > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles, so
> > the
> > > > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see, they were

> > not
> > > > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but it
> > > > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly
> > sloping
> > > > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels completely

> > off
> > > > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to allow
> > for that.
> > > >
> > > > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're looking

> > for a
> > > > new location (for the complete facility) as they've outgrown the
> > area
> > > > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the
> > facilities

> > > > they have beyond basic necesities.
> > > >
> > > > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside (and
> > wash
> > > > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --

> > huge
> > > > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach
> > > > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving together).
> > It
> > > > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised up with

> > the
> > > > things while I was there.)
> > > >
> > > > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done next
> > to
> > > > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example, the

> > air
> > > > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly raised
> > to
> > > > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I think
> > the

> > > > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and
> > perhaps
> > > > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds, builds,
> > and
> > > > moves to a new facility.

> > > >
> > > > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon -- seeing
> > how
> > > > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear what
> > an

> > > > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for a pit
> > for
> > > > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely to
> > ever
> > > > happen).

> > > >
> > > > Pete Masterson
> > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > > El Sobrante CA
> > > > aeonix1@
> >
> > > >

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it is), but

> > > > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before the
> > > > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I called
> > Koni
> > > > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb of

> > > > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration; consequently,
> > > > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brady

> > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > >
> > > > > bumpersbird wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Pete,
> > > > >>

> > > > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks under
> > the
> > > > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the coach in
> > the

> > > > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the air
> > bags
> > > > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.
> > > > >>

> > > > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground via the
> > jacks
> > > > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it could
> > easily

> > > > >> damage the coach.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for working
> > under
> > > > >> anything.

> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know what
> > what were
> > > > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our

> > coaches and
> > > > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you don't
> > mind her.
> > > > >> You just can't be too careful.
> > > > >>

> > > > >> Kurt Horvath
> > > > >> 95 PT-42
> > > > >> Fayetteville TN
> > > > >>
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >

> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

[Gregory OConnor]

One concern about a pit is venting heavy flamable vapors.
$quanderBus/YukonBill warned me of the danger and we add an exhaust
vent to a stack with a fan to move air. An electric fan should be
used to pressurize the vapor out but it is less effective to push
than draw the air with a big open pit I have probably dug 10 pits
in the last 5 years. I just set up a shotcreat pit hole for a gunite
contractor. aproximations Excavation -$1,200, #3Steel -$400.,
Shotcrete-1,300.00. In place of a fence you could use a swimming
pool trampoline cover. My neighbor uses an air rifle to protect the
other neighbors kids from getting hurt falling in the uncovered pit.
Rock salt may be more effective

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dorn Hetzel"
wrote:
>
> Well, I was going to put a fence around it and size it to fit the
bird with
> entrance steps at one end. Probably only make it 4 or 5 feet deep
and run a
> drain to a downhill location so it won't hold water. Thinking
about
> building a "bird house" over the pit later and just having the pit
> underneath the birds normal parking spot
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick
> > change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have a
pit
> > which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage
door in
> > front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was
their
> > practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over)
the pit
> > and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil
was
> > changed. The problem being that with an average length or short
car
> > the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would be
your
> > typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the
very
> > real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and
told
> > the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't
know
> > if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was thru
> > there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person
> > would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would
> > worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't
covered it
> > would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a good
> > option but for the average guy I think you are better off
farming out
> > the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the
reality
> > of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these
things
> > cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our
> > problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit
to
> > our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring
experience
> > and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude
that "I
> > can still do this".
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> >
> > >
> > > PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability
as
> > falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do
not
> > allow them.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > From: Pete Masterson
> > > > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles,
so
> > the
> > > > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see, they
were
> > not
> > > > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but
it
> > > > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly
> > sloping
> > > > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels
completely
> > off
> > > > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to
allow
> > for that.
> > > >
> > > > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're
looking
> > for a
> > > > new location (for the complete facility) as they've outgrown
the
> > area
> > > > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the
> > facilities
> > > > they have beyond basic necesities.
> > > >
> > > > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside
(and
> > wash
> > > > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --
> > huge
> > > > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach
> > > > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving
together).
> > It
> > > > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised up
with
> > the
> > > > things while I was there.)
> > > >
> > > > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done
next
> > to
> > > > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example, the
> > air
> > > > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly
raised
> > to
> > > > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I think
> > the
> > > > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and
> > perhaps
> > > > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds,
builds,
> > and
> > > > moves to a new facility.
> > > >
> > > > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon --
seeing
> > how
> > > > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear
what
> > an
> > > > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for a
pit
> > for
> > > > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely to
> > ever
> > > > happen).
> > > >
> > > > Pete Masterson
> > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > > El Sobrante CA
> > > > aeonix1@
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it
is), but
> > > > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before
the
> > > > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I
called
> > Koni
> > > > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb of
> > > > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration;
consequently,
> > > > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brady
> > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > >
> > > > > bumpersbird wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Pete,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks
under
> > the
> > > > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the
coach in
> > the
> > > > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the
air
> > bags
> > > > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground via
the
> > jacks
> > > > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it
could
> > easily
> > > > >> damage the coach.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for
working
> > under
> > > > >> anything.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know what
> > what were
> > > > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our
> > coaches and
> > > > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you
don't
> > mind her.
> > > > >> You just can't be too careful.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Kurt Horvath
> > > > >> 95 PT-42
> > > > >> Fayetteville TN
> > > > >>
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

[PM7088@...]

Kind of funny:

My neighbor uses an air rifle to protect the
> other neighbors kids from getting hurt falling in the uncovered pit.
> Rock salt may be more effective
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandCa


If he were to shoot at my kids, he'd be ducking 357 rounds in reply.

Pete

[Pete Masterson]

We have similar oil-change places here. Most require you to get out of the car and the attendant drives over the pit -- a few have you sit in the car while they go about the service (with the request that you do _not_ get out of the car. 

All of the pits (in these facilities) have metal grates that prevent anyone from falling in. The service is performed by sliding a grate out of the way to access the bottom of the vehicle. The design has the pit more like a basement, with a separate stairway (for the employees) to enter and leave the basement area with access to 2 or 3 service 'slots' cut into the "roof" of the basement.

I had assumed that most quickie-oil change places (in other states) were similar, but the design may reflect CA building code for such structures. I haven't really looked at similar business in other states...

While I admit having a service pit "would be nice" -- it ain't going to happen for me. My current home actually doesn't have a place on the property where I can put the bus (due to the slope of the land -- I live on a STEEP hill). Indeed, the coach is parked in front of the house on the street. (I'm in the county, not a city, so there's no enforcement of parking term rules although a nominal 10 day limit applies throughout the state.) Due to the slope, I run my power cable from a plug on the front of the house over the top of the coach (tying it to the goat rails). With the slope, the cable is about 10' above the sidewalk, so there's no problem with those passing by...

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jun 10, 2008, at 6:01 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:

I think you are entirely correct about the pits.  I use a quick 

change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed.  They have a pit 

which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage door in 

front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). <snip>

[bubblerboy64]

Gregory, I strongly recommend that you advise your neighbor not to
shoot the kids with an air rifle. They then to run home and tell when
you do that. Now, the neighbors cats don't talk... John
>
> One concern about a pit is venting heavy flamable vapors.
> $quanderBus/YukonBill warned me of the danger and we add an exhaust
> vent to a stack with a fan to move air. An electric fan should be
> used to pressurize the vapor out but it is less effective to push
> than draw the air with a big open pit I have probably dug 10 pits
> in the last 5 years. I just set up a shotcreat pit hole for a
gunite
> contractor. aproximations Excavation -$1,200, #3Steel -$400.,
> Shotcrete-1,300.00. In place of a fence you could use a swimming
> pool trampoline cover. My neighbor uses an air rifle to protect the
> other neighbors kids from getting hurt falling in the uncovered
pit.
> Rock salt may be more effective
>
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dorn Hetzel"
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I was going to put a fence around it and size it to fit the
> bird with
> > entrance steps at one end. Probably only make it 4 or 5 feet
deep
> and run a
> > drain to a downhill location so it won't hold water. Thinking
> about
> > building a "bird house" over the pit later and just having the pit
> > underneath the birds normal parking spot
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
> >
> > > I think you are entirely correct about the pits. I use a quick
> > > change oil place to have the oil in my cars changed. They have
a
> pit
> > > which you drive over. It's situated in a garage with a garage
> door in
> > > front of and in back of the pit (drive thru). I noticed it was
> their
> > > practice to have the customer drive into (and therefore over)
> the pit
> > > and then exit the car to wait in the waiting room while the oil
> was
> > > changed. The problem being that with an average length or short
> car
> > > the customer if he walked around the back of his car as would
be
> your
> > > typical path to get to the waiting room he was exposed to the
> very
> > > real chance of falling into the pit. I saw this situation and
> told
> > > the owner he was absolutely NUTS to operate this way. I don't
> know
> > > if it was my effort or not but I noticed the next time I was
thru
> > > there they had covered the back part of the pit so that a person
> > > would have to go under the car in order to hit the pit. It would
> > > worry me a lot to have a pit on my property. If it wasn't
> covered it
> > > would fill with water and what ever. I guess for some it's a
good
> > > option but for the average guy I think you are better off
> farming out
> > > the work that requires a pit to do the work. Lets face the
> reality
> > > of this stuff. If you can afford to own and fuel one of these
> things
> > > cash can't be that tight to risk your life. I think some of our
> > > problems are (well I know they are) that we don't want to admit
> to
> > > our limitations and especially as we age. Age can bring
> experience
> > > and good judgment but it also can bring a stubborn attitude
> that "I
> > > can still do this".
> > > John Heckman
> > > central Pa
> > > 1973 FC
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > PIts are wonderful to work in. They are also a huge liability
> as
> > > falling into one can be lethal. Building codes in many areas do
> not
> > > allow them.
> > > >
> > > > Pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > > From: Pete Masterson
> > > > > I believe the shocks where stopping the droop of the axles,
> so
> > > the
> > > > > stress wasn't on the air bags -- From what I could see,
they
> were
> > > not
> > > > > over-extended. This may not be true on older coaches -- but
> it
> > > > > appeared to be the case on my '95. Indeed, on some modestly
> > > sloping
> > > > > camp sites, the leveling jacks will bring the wheels
> completely
> > > off
> > > > > the ground, so BB must have engineered the suspension to
> allow
> > > for that.
> > > > >
> > > > > CCW in Riverside does not have pits -- I'm told they're
> looking
> > > for a
> > > > > new location (for the complete facility) as they've
outgrown
> the
> > > area
> > > > > they have, so they're not investing anything extra in the
> > > facilities
> > > > > they have beyond basic necesities.
> > > > >
> > > > > When the wanted to do a full examination of the underside
> (and
> > > wash
> > > > > the bottom of the engine, etc.) they used 6 "wheel jacks" --
> > > huge
> > > > > hydraulic jacks that cradle each tire and raise up the coach
> > > > > (controlled by a computer that keeps them all moving
> together).
> > > It
> > > > > was an amazing thing to see. (I saw several busses raised
up
> with
> > > the
> > > > > things while I was there.)
> > > > >
> > > > > However, for some aspects of the service, the work was done
> next
> > > to
> > > > > the "Blue Bird" section of the CCW facility. For example,
the
> > > air
> > > > > dryer was removed (to be rebuilt) with the coach slightly
> raised
> > > to
> > > > > let the technicians roll under the coach on creepers. I
think
> > > the
> > > > > technicians would be very happy to have a service pit -- and
> > > perhaps
> > > > > one will be made available in the future when CCW finds,
> builds,
> > > and
> > > > > moves to a new facility.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I was at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass Oregon --
> seeing
> > > how
> > > > > they worked on the coach from their pit made it very clear
> what
> > > an
> > > > > advantage it was. To tell the truth, I wish I had room for
a
> pit
> > > for
> > > > > the maintenance items I handle (but that's far from likely
to
> > > ever
> > > > > happen).
> > > > >
> > > > > Pete Masterson
> > > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > > > El Sobrante CA
> > > > > aeonix1@
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Brady wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This may not be true for all Wanderlodges, (I think it
> is), but
> > > > > > on my LXi the shocks will stop the drooping axles before
> the
> > > > > > air bags, thereby eliminating load on the air bags. I
> called
> > > Koni
> > > > > > and Justin assured me that each shock can handle 8500 lb
of
> > > > > > dead load (tension) in this static configuration;
> consequently,
> > > > > > there's no risk of damaging a shock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Brady
> > > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > bumpersbird wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Pete,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I've seen some shops use the technique of using blocks
> under
> > > the
> > > > > >> jacks to get the wheels off the ground and to get the
> coach in
> > > the
> > > > > >> air. I may be wrong but I think their is an issue of the
> air
> > > bags
> > > > > >> being strained beyond thier extension limits.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Don't get me wrong I've had the wheels off the ground
via
> the
> > > jacks
> > > > > >> several times, but I don't like to do it and I think it
> could
> > > easily
> > > > > >> damage the coach.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I would suggest a pit or a lift for the safest way for
> working
> > > under
> > > > > >> anything.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Sometimes we take safty for granted, we think we know
what
> > > what were
> > > > > >> doing, most of us have spent a lot of time working on our
> > > coaches and
> > > > > >> we know them intimatly. She can and will bite, if you
> don't
> > > mind her.
> > > > > >> You just can't be too careful.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Kurt Horvath
> > > > > >> 95 PT-42
> > > > > >> Fayetteville TN
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>