HELP - 8V92 will not start

[Chuck Wheeler]

Larry,

I helped a neighbor who had this problem with his DD series 60. It turned out to be a cracked fuel hose between the engine and chassis that would cause loss of prime. You couldn't see the cracks until the hose was removed. Symptoms were the same. Start, run a few seconds, and quit. We got it to run before we found the bad hose by using a compressor to get the air up so the air throttle would work, andbypassing the oil pressure switch so the aux fuel pump would run. We knew we still had a problem because it would stumble occasionally when coming to a stop. That's when we found the bad hose.

- Chuck Wheeler-

FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Kehler
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:03 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: HELP - 8V92 will not start

Mike & Leroy
I disconnected all ground and power wires and cleaned the connections.
No effect.
The engine runs for 10 -15 -20 seconds after the key is released.
But runs about 500 RPM then dies. Accelerator had no effect during
the short run time.

Larry Kehler
1994 PT-40

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Mike McMahan" <mmcmahan@..<WBR>.>
wrote:
>
> Does the e3ngine die as soon as you relase the key to the run
> position? Mike Mcmahan96 42' Wanderlodge-
>
> -- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Leroy Eckert >
> wrote:
> >
> > This may be way out.
> > Disconnect the main ground wire for the battery bank which should
> remove all power from the coach. Leave it disconnected for about 5
> minutes. Reconnect and try to start. I guess a wire in the wrong
> place on the DDL could cause problems but I wonder about that.
> > If that does not work check the main harness connection to the ECM
> for corrosion. And check the main battery ground that is attached to
> the coach frame on the curb side near the rear bumper(at least that
> is where mine is) Hope this helps. I doubt it is a filter.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Royale
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Smoke N Mirrors
> >

[Larry Kehler]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I replaced both filters.
The Racor was low about 1.5 inches.
The Secondary was low about .5 inch.
I refilled both to top and cranked 10 seconds.
This time it did not start or fire at all.
After three tries, I opened both filters again and the
Racor was full. The secondary was down maybe .25 inch.
Refilled and cranked three more times, no fire.
Looked at secondary and it appeared full.

My questions now are, is there another way to build the prime?
Could it be a fuel pump problem? If so how do you test the pump?

Larry Kehler
1994 PT-40 WBDA
St Louis

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:
>
> You have air in the fuel lines. Check the fuel level in each of your
> filters. Make sure they are full, then try to start. You may have to
> add fuel to the filters several times to get it to run. You have
> probably added more air trying to start. Once running, you need to
> find the sourse of air leaking into a fuel line or filter. Check the
> Racor for bubbles while running. If they are present, it could be a
> loose or faulty drain fitting. If no bubbles, then the source of the
> leak is somewhere else. Racor leak is common.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Streetsboro, Ohio

[Curt Sprenger]

"Another way to build prime"...This might be useful. http://tinyurl.com/4nbxx6 . Go to section "K", "priming the fuel system."

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Larry Kehler <"llkehler@gmail.com"> wrote:

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I replaced both filters.

The Racor was low about 1.5 inches.

The Secondary was low about .5 inch.

I refilled both to top and cranked 10 seconds.

This time it did not start or fire at all.

After three tries, I opened both filters again and the

Racor was full. The secondary was down maybe .25 inch.

Refilled and cranked three more times, no fire.

Looked at secondary and it appeared full.



My questions now are, is there another way to build the prime?

Could it be a fuel pump problem? If so how do you test the pump?



Larry Kehler

1994 PT-40 WBDA

St Louis



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002"

wrote:

>

> You have air in the fuel lines. Check the fuel level in each of your

> filters. Make sure they are full, then try to start. You may have to

> add fuel to the filters several times to get it to run. You have

> probably added more air trying to start. Once running, you need to

> find the sourse of air leaking into a fuel line or filter. Check the

> Racor for bubbles while running. If they are present, it could be a

> loose or faulty drain fitting. If no bubbles, then the source of the

> leak is somewhere else. Racor leak is common.

>

> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

> Currently in Streetsboro, Ohio

--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA

[putneyflash@...]

take off one end of the outlet line from the secondary filer you should get a flow when you crank. You can also drop the inlet line into a small container of fuel and by-pass to see if she fires. also hold throttle open, if air is low she is trying to start at idle.

--
RE

-------------- Original message from "Larry Kehler" : --------------

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I replaced both filters.
The Racor was low about 1.5 inches.
The Secondary was low about .5 inch.
I refilled both to top and cranked 10 seconds.
This time it did not start or fire at all.
After three tries, I opened both filters again and the
Racor was full. The secondary was down maybe .25 inch.
Refilled and cranked three more times, no fire.
Looked at secondary and it appeared full.

My questions now are, is there another way to build the prime?
Could it be a fuel pump problem? If so how do you test the pump?

Larry Kehler
1994 PT-40 WBDA
St Louis

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002"
...> wrote:
>
> You have air in the fuel lines. Check the fuel level in each of your
> filters. Make sure they are full, then try to start. You may have to
> add fuel to the filters several times to get it to run. You have
> probably added more air trying to start. Once running, you need to
> find the sourse of air leaking into a fuel line or filter. Check the
> Racor for bubbles while running. If they are present, it could be a
> loose or faulty drain fitting. If no bubbles, then the source of the
> leak is somewhere else. Racor leak is common.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Streetsboro, Ohio

[Leroy Eckert]

Is your intake system free and clear? I sent you a schematic of the fuel system on the engine. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Royale Dahlonega, GA Smoke N Mirrors --- On Thu, 6/19/08, Larry Kehler wrote: From: Larry Kehler Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: HELP - 8V92 will not start To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 3:21 PM Thanks for all the suggestions. I replaced both filters. The Racor was low about 1.5 inches. The Secondary was low about .5 inch. I refilled both to top and cranked 10 seconds. This time it did not start or fire at all. After three tries, I opened both filters again and the Racor was full. The secondary was down maybe .25 inch. Refilled and cranked three more times, no fire. Looked at secondary and it appeared full. My questions now are, is there another way to build the prime? Could it be a fuel pump problem? If so how do you test the pump? Larry Kehler 1994 PT-40 WBDA St Louis --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002" wrote: > > You have air in the fuel lines. Check the fuel level in each of your > filters. Make sure they are full, then try to start. You may have to > add fuel to the filters several times to get it to run. You have > probably added more air trying to start. Once running, you need to > find the sourse of air leaking into a fuel line or filter. Check the > Racor for bubbles while running. If they are present, it could be a > loose or faulty drain fitting. If no bubbles, then the source of the > leak is somewhere else. Racor leak is common. > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40 > Currently in Streetsboro, Ohio

[ronmarabito2002]

If you got those injectors dry, it might take a while to get fuel
through and the engine fire. Also, I assume the engine is cranking at
a pretty good speed. Weak batteries won't spin the engine fast enough
to get a compression ignition.

I spent 35 minutes once repeatedly cranking before I got it to run.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Kehler"
wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions.
> I replaced both filters.
> The Racor was low about 1.5 inches.
> The Secondary was low about .5 inch.
> I refilled both to top and cranked 10 seconds.
> This time it did not start or fire at all.
> After three tries, I opened both filters again and the
> Racor was full. The secondary was down maybe .25 inch.
> Refilled and cranked three more times, no fire.
> Looked at secondary and it appeared full.
>
> My questions now are, is there another way to build the prime?
> Could it be a fuel pump problem? If so how do you test the pump?
>
> Larry Kehler
> 1994 PT-40 WBDA
> St Louis
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> wrote:
> >
> > You have air in the fuel lines. Check the fuel level in each of your
> > filters. Make sure they are full, then try to start. You may have to
> > add fuel to the filters several times to get it to run. You have
> > probably added more air trying to start. Once running, you need to
> > find the sourse of air leaking into a fuel line or filter. Check the
> > Racor for bubbles while running. If they are present, it could be a
> > loose or faulty drain fitting. If no bubbles, then the source of the
> > leak is somewhere else. Racor leak is common.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Streetsboro, Ohio
>

[Larry Kehler]

I am making some progress but I thought I would update everyone on
what is happening.
Using Curt's article on replacing his fuel hoses, I built a electric
prime pump and put a ball valve to open and shut the feed line.
I ran about a gallon of fuel through the system and then tried to
start the engine with the electric pump still running. It cranked and
pumped out white smoke. After several more pump tries and more white
smoke. I determined that lost prime was not the problem. It was
clear that the injectors were not firing. I started worrying that I
had toasted the ECM. I decided that I had to find a 92 series
mechanic with some diagnostics tools. I drove to several truck repair
garages and got the same response-
"yea we work on Detroits" - "What do you mean 2 stroke, I never seen
no 2 stroke diesel".
Then I found on the way home, the Detroit Diesel Dealer has moved to
within 10 miles of my house.
I found a old 92 series mechanic who was at the new facility teaching
young mechanics. He took me to a 89 Newell coach and told me that if
my stop engine and check engine light come with the ignition switch
and then both go off after 10 seconds, my DEC ECM is OK.

I showed him what I had done with my prime pump. His response was
that the injectors were not firing because I need 80 Pounds of fuel
pressure to fire. He said it could be leaking hoses or fuel pump.
He suggested a pressure gage to check the fuel pressure. He also
showed me to which outlet hose to pull off and put in a bucket of
clean fuel and crank the engine If I get bubbles in the fuel, then I
likely have a bad hose. If the flow is clean and clear, then I might
have a bad pump. The pressure gage will tell the story on the pump.

Two bad possible causes is a broken drive shaft for the pump. The
other is the sensors that time the ECM. The last two options would
require towing the coach to their facility.
If it is a new pump, he said I should be able to replace the pump and
told me the steps to pull the Coldplate/DECC.

So I am encouraged that I will be able to get going in the next two or
three days. I will keep you posted.

Larry Kehler
1994 PT-40 WBDA
St Louis


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:
>
> If you got those injectors dry, it might take a while to get fuel
> through and the engine fire. Also, I assume the engine is cranking at
> a pretty good speed. Weak batteries won't spin the engine fast enough
> to get a compression ignition.
>
> I spent 35 minutes once repeatedly cranking before I got it to run.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>

[ronmarabito2002]

Sure hope you find the problem and get underway.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Kehler"
wrote:
>
> I am making some progress but I thought I would update everyone on
> what is happening.
> Using Curt's article on replacing his fuel hoses, I built a electric
> prime pump and put a ball valve to open and shut the feed line.
> I ran about a gallon of fuel through the system and then tried to
> start the engine with the electric pump still running. It cranked and
> pumped out white smoke. After several more pump tries and more white
> smoke. I determined that lost prime was not the problem. It was
> clear that the injectors were not firing. I started worrying that I
> had toasted the ECM. I decided that I had to find a 92 series
> mechanic with some diagnostics tools. I drove to several truck repair
> garages and got the same response-
> "yea we work on Detroits" - "What do you mean 2 stroke, I never seen
> no 2 stroke diesel".
> Then I found on the way home, the Detroit Diesel Dealer has moved to
> within 10 miles of my house.
> I found a old 92 series mechanic who was at the new facility teaching
> young mechanics. He took me to a 89 Newell coach and told me that if
> my stop engine and check engine light come with the ignition switch
> and then both go off after 10 seconds, my DEC ECM is OK.
>
> I showed him what I had done with my prime pump. His response was
> that the injectors were not firing because I need 80 Pounds of fuel
> pressure to fire. He said it could be leaking hoses or fuel pump.
> He suggested a pressure gage to check the fuel pressure. He also
> showed me to which outlet hose to pull off and put in a bucket of
> clean fuel and crank the engine If I get bubbles in the fuel, then I
> likely have a bad hose. If the flow is clean and clear, then I might
> have a bad pump. The pressure gage will tell the story on the pump.
>
> Two bad possible causes is a broken drive shaft for the pump. The
> other is the sensors that time the ECM. The last two options would
> require towing the coach to their facility.
> If it is a new pump, he said I should be able to replace the pump and
> told me the steps to pull the Coldplate/DECC.
>
> So I am encouraged that I will be able to get going in the next two or
> three days. I will keep you posted.
>
> Larry Kehler
> 1994 PT-40 WBDA
> St Louis
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> wrote:
> >
> > If you got those injectors dry, it might take a while to get fuel
> > through and the engine fire. Also, I assume the engine is cranking at
> > a pretty good speed. Weak batteries won't spin the engine fast enough
> > to get a compression ignition.
> >
> > I spent 35 minutes once repeatedly cranking before I got it to run.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> >
>

[Dan Williams]

You can have a no start problem if there
is an obstruction in the exhaust. A simple test is to put a plastic bag
over the exhaust and run the starter. If the bag goes horizontal then the
exhaust is ok. If it goes less than horizontal you have a problem.

Regards,

Dan Williams

88pt38/8v92

Jackson, MS

---

[Curt Sprenger]

Problem could be the fuel pump drive coupling fork. The coupling fork could be broken or worn. I'm looking at my 92 series manual and I'm assuming the fuel pump on your engine is the same as mine.

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Larry Kehler <"llkehler@gmail.com"> wrote:

I am making some progress but I thought I would update everyone on

what is happening.

Using Curt's article on replacing his fuel hoses, I built a electric

prime pump and put a ball valve to open and shut the feed line.

I ran about a gallon of fuel through the system and then tried to

start the engine with the electric pump still running. It cranked and

pumped out white smoke. After several more pump tries and more white

smoke. I determined that lost prime was not the problem. It was

clear that the injectors were not firing. I started worrying that I

had toasted the ECM. I decided that I had to find a 92 series

mechanic with some diagnostics tools. I drove to several truck repair

garages and got the same response-

"yea we work on Detroits" - "What do you mean 2 stroke, I never seen

no 2 stroke diesel".

Then I found on the way home, the Detroit Diesel Dealer has moved to

within 10 miles of my house.

I found a old 92 series mechanic who was at the new facility teaching

young mechanics. He took me to a 89 Newell coach and told me that if

my stop engine and check engine light come with the ignition switch

and then both go off after 10 seconds, my DEC ECM is OK.



I showed him what I had done with my prime pump. His response was

that the injectors were not firing because I need 80 Pounds of fuel

pressure to fire. He said it could be leaking hoses or fuel pump.

He suggested a pressure gage to check the fuel pressure. He also

showed me to which outlet hose to pull off and put in a bucket of

clean fuel and crank the engine If I get bubbles in the fuel, then I

likely have a bad hose. If the flow is clean and clear, then I might

have a bad pump. The pressure gage will tell the story on the pump.



Two bad possible causes is a broken drive shaft for the pump. The

other is the sensors that time the ECM. The last two options would

require towing the coach to their facility.

If it is a new pump, he said I should be able to replace the pump and

told me the steps to pull the Coldplate/DECC.



So I am encouraged that I will be able to get going in the next two or

three days. I will keep you posted.



Larry Kehler

1994 PT-40 WBDA

St Louis



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002"

wrote:

>

> If you got those injectors dry, it might take a while to get fuel

> through and the engine fire. Also, I assume the engine is cranking at

> a pretty good speed. Weak batteries won't spin the engine fast enough

> to get a compression ignition.

>

> I spent 35 minutes once repeatedly cranking before I got it to run.

>

> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

>

--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA