Low volts and amps; was alternator

[Tom Warner]

Bob I am not aware of BB fixing the charging problems on the FC. If you
increase the voltage at the LN alternator terminals the volage shown by the
generator voltage meter on the dash is way to high. If anyone has installed
a Freedom 2500 in place of the batteries along with the Link 1000 you will
find that it can never show 130 amps on the from the charger even when
first kicked on. My LN alternator is 160A and I have never seen over 121A
out of it as registered on the Link. In additon since there is a large
voltage drop between the batteries to the inverter when using my microwave
its amusing to be generous. There is only one way to correct it and that is
to move the charger to the passenger front bin and put a 3 stage charger
on the LN.

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,ny





/ At 08:35 PM 5/24/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Jeff - How did BB accomplish the 'external voltage sense' with L-N
>alternator? Is the external sensing point the place to put the
>voltmeter when adjusting the L-N regulator?
>
>Also, a general comment: When an electrical problem seems to be due
>to the length or size of a cable, remember to check the
>terminations. Crimped-on lugs do NOT get better at conducting
>current with age. Same is true where a lug fastens to a terminal.
>If in doubt, install new lugs and clean all contact points until the
>metal is shiny. Then apply a product like Rid-Ox before assembly.
>Remember that each cable end is actually TWO connections: One from
>cable to lug, and another from lug to terminal. That's FOUR points of
>failure for each run of cable (True of ground straps also).
>
>Bob Griesel
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
> wrote:
> > Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?
> >
> > Granted the dash in your early '82 FC could have benefitted from
>the
> > addition of a few load-reduction relays: headlamps, ignition, A/C
> > switches for example. Fortunately BlueBird figured that out many
> > years ago also and made production changes.
> >
> > Your alternator and wiring also ended in late '82, all of the
>3208Ta
> > engines had the Leece-Neville alternator with internal regulator as
> > original equipment. The external voltage sense was retained,
>through
> > at least the late '90s S-60 powered WLWB coaches, and was intended
>to
> > maintain proper voltage at the power buss regardless of voltage
>drop
> > over the wiring run. Many alternator folks don't understand this
> > wiring and I usually see it mis-wired by now.
> >
> > Although the charger wiring is long, 1AWG is probably considered
> > adequate for the original 90a peak charging current over perhaps
>25'.
> > Some of the battery wiring was upsized in mid-CY-1982 with the
> > addition of the battery isolator next to the slide-out battery tray.
> >
> > I'm not sure that 4/0 battery cables for the 18" from battery to
> > junction would be practical (or necessary). Perhaps a jump to 1/0
> > would be more manageable? Trying to use the slide-out battery tray
> > with 4/0 wires would be difficult and other than starting current
> > there isn't anything that normally will cause significant voltage
> > drop in that wiring.
> >
> > - Jeff Miller
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > > FC models are saddled with two engineering design problems.
>The
> > first is
> > > that to much current is running thru the dash and the second is
>the
> > very
> > > long cables between the chargers, the alternator and the
>batteries.
> > The
> > > more current you can divert from the dash, such as using Bosch
> > relays for
> > > the lights, relays to get the A/C current(driver and passenger
> > sides) out
> > > of the dash, etc. Change the battery cables to 4/0 although not
>the
> > best
> > > fix nor the optimal condition, it does seem easier then to change
> > the
> > > chargers to the passenger front bin. One more problem is that the
> > FC models
> > > were designed to use the motorola alternator and an external
> > regulator that
> > > senses the voltage directly across the batteries. Most people
>have
> > changed
> > > that out to the Leece_Neville with the internal regulators which
> > cause a
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > 1982 FC35
> > > Vernon Center,NY
>
>
>
>
>----------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W\
anderlodgeForum/
>
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> *
>
Wanderl\
odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> *
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Tom Warner]

If anyone is interested I have the technical paper on changing the LN to an
external 3 stage alternator.

tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 08:35 PM 5/24/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Jeff - How did BB accomplish the 'external voltage sense' with L-N
>alternator? Is the external sensing point the place to put the
>voltmeter when adjusting the L-N regulator?
>
>Also, a general comment: When an electrical problem seems to be due
>to the length or size of a cable, remember to check the
>terminations. Crimped-on lugs do NOT get better at conducting
>current with age. Same is true where a lug fastens to a terminal.
>If in doubt, install new lugs and clean all contact points until the
>metal is shiny. Then apply a product like Rid-Ox before assembly.
>Remember that each cable end is actually TWO connections: One from
>cable to lug, and another from lug to terminal. That's FOUR points of
>failure for each run of cable (True of ground straps also).
>
>Bob Griesel
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
> wrote:
> > Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?
> >
> > Granted the dash in your early '82 FC could have benefitted from
>the
> > addition of a few load-reduction relays: headlamps, ignition, A/C
> > switches for example. Fortunately BlueBird figured that out many
> > years ago also and made production changes.
> >
> > Your alternator and wiring also ended in late '82, all of the
>3208Ta
> > engines had the Leece-Neville alternator with internal regulator as
> > original equipment. The external voltage sense was retained,
>through
> > at least the late '90s S-60 powered WLWB coaches, and was intended
>to
> > maintain proper voltage at the power buss regardless of voltage
>drop
> > over the wiring run. Many alternator folks don't understand this
> > wiring and I usually see it mis-wired by now.
> >
> > Although the charger wiring is long, 1AWG is probably considered
> > adequate for the original 90a peak charging current over perhaps
>25'.
> > Some of the battery wiring was upsized in mid-CY-1982 with the
> > addition of the battery isolator next to the slide-out battery tray.
> >
> > I'm not sure that 4/0 battery cables for the 18" from battery to
> > junction would be practical (or necessary). Perhaps a jump to 1/0
> > would be more manageable? Trying to use the slide-out battery tray
> > with 4/0 wires would be difficult and other than starting current
> > there isn't anything that normally will cause significant voltage
> > drop in that wiring.
> >
> > - Jeff Miller
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > > FC models are saddled with two engineering design problems.
>The
> > first is
> > > that to much current is running thru the dash and the second is
>the
> > very
> > > long cables between the chargers, the alternator and the
>batteries.
> > The
> > > more current you can divert from the dash, such as using Bosch
> > relays for
> > > the lights, relays to get the A/C current(driver and passenger
> > sides) out
> > > of the dash, etc. Change the battery cables to 4/0 although not
>the
> > best
> > > fix nor the optimal condition, it does seem easier then to change
> > the
> > > chargers to the passenger front bin. One more problem is that the
> > FC models
> > > were designed to use the motorola alternator and an external
> > regulator that
> > > senses the voltage directly across the batteries. Most people
>have
> > changed
> > > that out to the Leece_Neville with the internal regulators which
> > cause a
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > 1982 FC35
> > > Vernon Center,NY
>
>
>
>
>----------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W\
anderlodgeForum/
>
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> *
>
Wanderl\
odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> *
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Jeff Miller]

Tom

You don't increase the voltage, you sense remotely as BB designed it,
and then the voltage at the load remains where it should be regardless
of the voltage drop in the wiring. Simple solution to a simple problem,
and it works. BlueBird did this in late 1982 for the '83 MY and it
helps to maintain a proper voltage at the load center if left intact.

The MY '82 and before wiring needs a remote sense even more, or to be
re-wired. Your entire load center is powered by a single 6AWG wire. If
you've had an inverter added, and the voltage drop over the cables to
the inverter is a problem, kind of hard to blame BlueBird for your
voltage drop.

Mike Hohnstein's '83 FC has a kick-butt inverter/battery setup which
works exceptionally well, and uses almost all of the original
battery/charger cables (except two, we had two of the originals left
over). Not a piece of 4/0 anywhere and the microwave works great. You
might look at having your inverter system properly installed if the
original installer did a poor job.


- Jeff Miller
http://www.wanderlodge.net


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Bob I am not aware