Jake Brake Problem

[Johnny M Slone]

Hello,
I'm having a problem with the jake brake on my 98 LXI. It will work
fine for a while and then just stop working. The trans will down shift
but the jakes will not work. At first I thought the cruise was
disabeling it but I tried using it withoout the cruise and it stops
working after the motor get real hot. Seems as though I can shut the
engine off for a while and it will work again for a while.
Has anyone had a similiar problem. How do I chase the problem. I'm not
real sure I know where all the parts are.
Thanks,
Johnny M Slone
Pikeville, Ky
98 LXI

[Eric Perplies]

I have had two failures in my Jake brake system. Both times it was
just the ON/OFF switch that failed or operated intermittently. I now
stock a pocket full of these switches.

Eric Perplies
96 42' WBWL

[coreyg67]

Johnny,

I believe I am experiencing the exact same problem intermittenly.
The only time mine appears to do so is if I turn off the brake using
the switch while it is active. Typically once this is done, it will
not come back on until I shut the engine down. But mine acts
exactly the same. when it quits working, the tranny will still
downshift as if in braking mode, but the engine never actually
switches to brake mode.

Eric,

when switch failure occurs as you mention, was the tranny still
downshifting to accomodate the brake? I would think if it was
switch failure, the entire system would be inactive. I hope it is
as easy as that, but I'm afraid not.

Corey and Jenni Graham
1996 PT42 60series
Prosper, TX



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm having a problem with the jake brake on my 98 LXI. It will
work
> fine for a while and then just stop working. The trans will down
shift
> but the jakes will not work. At first I thought the cruise was
> disabeling it but I tried using it withoout the cruise and it
stops
> working after the motor get real hot. Seems as though I can shut
the
> engine off for a while and it will work again for a while.
> Has anyone had a similiar problem. How do I chase the problem. I'm
not
> real sure I know where all the parts are.
> Thanks,
> Johnny M Slone
> Pikeville, Ky
> 98 LXI
>

[Kurt Horvath]

Seems like every other posting of a problem I've got it! Or had it.
Will get it! Bus hypochondria?
Tested the switches, they have continuity, the tranny down shifts but
no Jake.
I had it checked by D.D. over 18 months ago. They found my problem.
Ended up getting a new cam and roller bearings on #6 cyl. I was told
everything's working.
My BB guru informs me if it's working you'll know it. It's AUDIBLE!
Well mine doesn't have any noticeable sound change, or anything like
on the big rigs. Also in the 95's there is known problem with the
Jake
I was told to check the panel up front for a relay that should be
disconnected or by-passed #22 C. If it's already done and the
transmission is downshifting the DDEC is either not functioning
correctly or the Jake has been disabled in the DDEC computer. My
relay has already been removed.
In my infinite wisdom, read in here paranoia. I have a spare DDEC
unit in my toolbox that has been programmed to my engine. If I can
I'll have it double checked for it's programming to make sure the
Jake is enabled. I'll get it put in the next few weeks and let you
guys know what happens.

10AC
Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "coreyg67" wrote:
>
> Johnny,
>
> I believe I am experiencing the exact same problem intermittenly.
> The only time mine appears to do so is if I turn off the brake
using
> the switch while it is active. Typically once this is done, it
will
> not come back on until I shut the engine down. But mine acts
> exactly the same. when it quits working, the tranny will still
> downshift as if in braking mode, but the engine never actually
> switches to brake mode.
>
> Eric,
>
> when switch failure occurs as you mention, was the tranny still
> downshifting to accomodate the brake? I would think if it was
> switch failure, the entire system would be inactive. I hope it is
> as easy as that, but I'm afraid not.
>
> Corey and Jenni Graham
> 1996 PT42 60series
> Prosper, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I'm having a problem with the jake brake on my 98 LXI. It will
> work
> > fine for a while and then just stop working. The trans will down
> shift
> > but the jakes will not work. At first I thought the cruise was
> > disabeling it but I tried using it withoout the cruise and it
> stops
> > working after the motor get real hot. Seems as though I can shut
> the
> > engine off for a while and it will work again for a while.
> > Has anyone had a similiar problem. How do I chase the problem.
I'm
> not
> > real sure I know where all the parts are.
> > Thanks,
> > Johnny M Slone
> > Pikeville, Ky
> > 98 LXI
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

I have the re-wired jake brake on my coach. The 'medium' setting is
wired out. Only "low" and "high" operate.

When I had my muffler replaced (earlier this year) the first thing I
noticed is that the Jake brake is barely audible (before it was
pretty obvious -- but I, in essence, had no muffler). I also notice
that with the jake passing through the muffler, it's much less
effective than it was when the muffler was mostly a joke. That may be
part of your situation.

While passing through Texas, I entered many towns that had "no Jake
Brake" ordinances, so I was turning the system on and off. I noticed
that it seemed to work intermittently. Dunno if I turned it off while
it was operating or not. It seems to be working ok now....

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Dalton, PA



On Sep 17, 2008, at 12:02 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:

> Seems like every other posting of a problem I've got it! Or had it.
> Will get it! Bus hypochondria?
> Tested the switches, they have continuity, the tranny down shifts but
> no Jake.
> I had it checked by D.D. over 18 months ago. They found my problem.
> Ended up getting a new cam and roller bearings on #6 cyl. I was told
> everything's working.
> My BB guru informs me if it's working you'll know it. It's AUDIBLE!
> Well mine doesn't have any noticeable sound change, or anything like
> on the big rigs. Also in the 95's there is known problem with the
> Jake
> I was told to check the panel up front for a relay that should be
> disconnected or by-passed #23 C. If it's already done and the
> transmission is downshifting the DDEC is either not functioning
> correctly or the Jake has been disabled in the DDEC computer.
> In my infinite wisdom, read in here paranoia. I have a spare DDEC
> unit in my toolbox that has been programmed to my engine. If I can
> I'll have it double checked for it's programming to make sure the
> Jake is enabled. I'll get it put in the next few weeks and let you
> guys know what happens.
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT-42
> 10AC
>>
>> Johnny,
>>
>> I believe I am experiencing the exact same problem intermittenly.
>> The only time mine appears to do so is if I turn off the brake
> using
>> the switch while it is active. Typically once this is done, it
> will
>> not come back on until I shut the engine down. But mine acts
>> exactly the same. when it quits working, the tranny will still
>> downshift as if in braking mode, but the engine never actually
>> switches to brake mode.
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> when switch failure occurs as you mention, was the tranny still
>> downshifting to accomodate the brake? I would think if it was
>> switch failure, the entire system would be inactive. I hope it is
>> as easy as that, but I'm afraid not.
>>
>> Corey and Jenni Graham
>> 1996 PT42 60series
>> Prosper, TX
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm having a problem with the jake brake on my 98 LXI. It will
>> work
>>> fine for a while and then just stop working. The trans will down
>> shift
>>> but the jakes will not work. At first I thought the cruise was
>>> disabeling it but I tried using it withoout the cruise and it
>> stops
>>> working after the motor get real hot. Seems as though I can shut
>> the
>>> engine off for a while and it will work again for a while.
>>> Has anyone had a similiar problem. How do I chase the problem.
> I'm
>> not
>>> real sure I know where all the parts are.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Johnny M Slone
>>> Pikeville, Ky
>>> 98 LXI
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Johnny M Slone]

Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a schematic that
shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should be
on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches and
relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm
satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to be
a lead
(engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a
relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied for
the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable lead
to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know where
to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.

When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach.
Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going down a
6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get your
attention.

Thanks again.

Johnny M Slone
Pikeville, Ky
98 LXI

[Leroy Eckert]

I cannot help you specifically with your coach. I am posting to suggest that if you have a master print of your coach, a huge blueprint which shows the overall 12v electrical plan for the running gear; it should have harness pin identifiers, mine are lettered, and with some time spent you should be able to formulate a picture of how it is wired. I did it on my coach for the DDECII, the ATEC, and the DDL including how they interface. For instance pin A on the main harness may have A1 A2 and A3 and may tie up to another harness with different letters or numbers or any combination thereof. You have to study it closely, but once you get it down it is relatively simple. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote: From: Johnny M Slone Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a schematic that shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should be on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches and relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to be a lead (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied for the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable lead to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know where to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase. When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach. Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going down a 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get your attention. Thanks again. Johnny M Slone Pikeville, Ky 98 LXI

[Leroy Eckert]

One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they converted my coach. Hope this helps. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote: From: Johnny M Slone Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a schematic that shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should be on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches and relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to be a lead (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied for the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable lead to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know where to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase. When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach. Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going down a 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get your attention. Thanks again. Johnny M Slone Pikeville, Ky 98 LXI

[Kurt Horvath]

Johnny,

Look at this post, Oslo Switch-rocker switch-dashboard on the W.O.G.
Forum. This explains a lot and would be good to check all the Cannon
Plugs for P.M. Leroy is on the right track, the Cannon Plugs sound
like the weak link in this sysytem. I have some blueprints and will
get them out tonight and let you know what I find in the AM.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
wrote:
>
> I cannot help you specifically with your coach. I am posting to
suggest that if you have a master print of your coach, a huge
blueprint which shows the overall 12v electrical plan for the running
gear; it should have harness pin identifiers, mine are lettered, and
with some time spent you should be able to formulate a picture of how
it is wired. I did it on my coach for the DDECII, the ATEC, and the
DDL including how they interface. For instance pin A on the main
harness may have A1 A2 and A3 and may tie up to another harness with
different letters or numbers or any combination thereof. You have to
study it closely, but once you get it down it is relatively simple.
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:
> From: Johnny M Slone
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a
schematic that
>
> shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should
be
>
> on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches
and
>
> relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm
>
> satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to
be
>
> a lead
>
> (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a
>
> relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied for
>
> the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable
lead
>
> to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know
where
>
> to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.
>
>
>
> When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach.
>
> Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going down
a
>
> 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get
your
>
> attention.
>
>
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> Johnny M Slone
>
> Pikeville, Ky
>
> 98 LXI
>

[Kurt Horvath]

The blue prints show 7 pin locations

Legend

Wire < Cannon Plug Location & Pin # < Wire Size & Color - Description


119 < ATEC A-9 < 18ga YELLOW - Engine brake on-off on-off-on
switch

132A < ATEC B-19 < 18ga WHITE - #30 on two C,Y relays to Cannon
Plug

583 < ENG B-22 < 18ga. LT. BLUE/BLACK - #87A on C,Y relays

979 < ENG B-21 < 18ga WHITE -

231 < ATEC B-13 < 18ga. Yellow - #86 on Ignition Relay, also ties
into a Neutral Safety Relay

768 < CHAS B-20 < 14ga. PURPLE - Neutral Safety Relay

714 < CHAS B-4 < 14ga. PURPLE - Neutral Safety Relay

It looks like we'll have to check 4 different plugs.

Better check them all.

ATEC- A
ATEC- B
ENG.- B
CHAS - B

Looks straight forwards enough.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC

P.S. Thanks for the B.P. Wallace



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Horvath"
wrote:
>
> Johnny,
>
> Look at this post, Oslo Switch-rocker switch-dashboard on the
W.O.G.
> Forum. This explains a lot and would be good to check all the
Cannon
> Plugs for P.M. Leroy is on the right track, the Cannon Plugs sound
> like the weak link in this sysytem. I have some blueprints and will
> get them out tonight and let you know what I find in the AM.
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT-42
> 10AC
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert
> wrote:
> >
> > I cannot help you specifically with your coach. I am posting to
> suggest that if you have a master print of your coach, a huge
> blueprint which shows the overall 12v electrical plan for the
running
> gear; it should have harness pin identifiers, mine are lettered,
and
> with some time spent you should be able to formulate a picture of
how
> it is wired. I did it on my coach for the DDECII, the ATEC, and the
> DDL including how they interface. For instance pin A on the main
> harness may have A1 A2 and A3 and may tie up to another harness
with
> different letters or numbers or any combination thereof. You have
to
> study it closely, but once you get it down it is relatively simple.
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Royale Conversion
> >
> > --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone wrote:
> > From: Johnny M Slone
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a
> schematic that
> >
> > shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should
> be
> >
> > on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches
> and
> >
> > relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm
> >
> > satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to
> be
> >
> > a lead
> >
> > (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a
> >
> > relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied
for
> >
> > the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable
> lead
> >
> > to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know
> where
> >
> > to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase.
> >
> >
> >
> > When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the
coach.
> >
> > Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going
down
> a
> >
> > 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get
> your
> >
> > attention.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> >
> >
> > Johnny M Slone
> >
> > Pikeville, Ky
> >
> > 98 LXI
> >
>