Jake Brake Problem
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09-17-2008, 16:55
Post: #11
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Jake Brake Problem
If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he lists a
land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several computers to reprogram http://www.heavydutypowertrain.com/detroitecms.htm I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch and bulk oil switch greg --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert > > One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they converted my coach. Hope this helps. > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > Dahlonega, GA > Royale Conversion > > --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone > From: Johnny M Slone > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a schematic that > > shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should be > > on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches and > > relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm > > satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to be > > a lead > > (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a > > relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied for > > the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable lead > > to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know where > > to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase. > > > > When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach. > > Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going down a > > 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get your > > attention. > > > > Thanks again. > > > > Johnny M Slone > > Pikeville, Ky > > 98 LXI > |
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09-17-2008, 17:01
Post: #12
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Jake Brake Problem
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09-17-2008, 17:17
Post: #13
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Jake Brake Problem
My prints say the two to the right go to a "Power Harness Connector" one other wire to that same P H connector isfrom the coolant level sensor somy thinking is it was the power to the DDec???
greg --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert > > Don't know Greg. I know they are in the engine compartment but have never tracked them down..I have several auto reset breakers back there. I also know my Royale is different than others. Maybe those Prevost converters knew something.????? > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > Royale Conversion > > --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@... wrote: > From: Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@... > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 12:55 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he lists a > > land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several > > computers to reprogram > > http://www.heavydut ypowertrain. com/detroitecms. htm > > > > I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two > > fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch > > and bulk oil switch > > > > greg > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert > > > > > > > > One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my > > set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my > > coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the > > DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably > > as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side > > malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which > > prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no > > power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they > > converted my coach. Hope this helps. > > > Leroy Eckert > > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > > > Dahlonega, GA > > > Royale Conversion > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone > > > From: Johnny M Slone > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a > > schematic that > > > > > > shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should > > be > > > > > > on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches > > and > > > > > > relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm > > > > > > satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to > > be > > > > > > a lead > > > > > > (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a > > > > > > relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied > > for > > > > > > the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable > > lead > > > > > > to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know > > where > > > > > > to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase. > > > > > > > > > > > > When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach. > > > > > > Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going > > down a > > > > > > 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get > > your > > > > > > attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnny M Slone > > > > > > Pikeville, Ky > > > > > > 98 LXI > > > > |
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09-17-2008, 17:38
Post: #14
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Jake Brake Problem
I replace all three and opened up the hermetic seal. they were all
full of rust, (not nearly as good a seal as Ed McMahon's mayonnaise jar). I think they are put at the bumper to keep the heat away???? I added one more source to power the front ign switch and learned that all the running lights and most every thing is powered off the house batteries. if you turn off the house batteries and unplug the chargers, all you have is starter, ignition and computer. I found only one fuse under the front panel that was powered off the batteries hot all the time, 10 ga wire, red, BAK3. I added one more 15 amp off this to the ign. I wonder if that will let the rear 20 amp and the newfront 15 amp burn 35 amp to the ignition switch????? likewies, the two 20 amps at the rear giving the computer 40 amps prior to trip off???? greg --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > > > My prints say the two to the right go to a "Power Harness Connector" one > other wire to that same P H connector is from the coolant level sensor > so my thinking is it was the power to the DDec??? > a View full size > <http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do? pid=9120PCTTwcnwYsmgQfB1MFCZ8\ > VkyhYjbO8s2v4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D> b > greg > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert > wrote: > > > > Don't know Greg. I know they are in the engine compartment but have > never tracked them down..I have several auto reset breakers back there. > I also know my Royale is different than others. Maybe those Prevost > converters knew something.????? > > Leroy Eckert > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > > Royale Conversion > > > > --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@ wrote: > > From: Gregory OConnor Gregoryoc@ > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 12:55 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a prob with the computer this guy has the answer. he lists a > > > > land line. lot of good info on his site. I sent him several > > > > computers to reprogram > > > > http://www.heavydut ypowertrain. com/detroitecms. htm > > > > > > > > I wonder if the two power sources for the ddec are the right two > > > > fuse/breakers behind the rear bumper?? the left is the ign switch > > > > and bulk oil switch > > > > > > > > greg > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One other thing I forgot. It has been a year since I studied my > > > > set up so I am going from memory. I specifically remember that my > > > > coach has two main DDEC power sources spliced somewhere near the > > > > DDEC control unit and two separate grounds. This set up presumably > > > > as a fail safe in case one of two fuses or relays on the power side > > > > malfunctions, and/or a bad ground in one location either of which > > > > prevents an engine shut down because the DDEC cannot think.(no > > > > power, no ground) I do not know if BB did this or Royale when they > > > > converted my coach. Hope this helps. > > > > > Leroy Eckert > > > > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > > > > > Dahlonega, GA > > > > > Royale Conversion > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Johnny M Slone > > > > > From: Johnny M Slone > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Jake Brake Problem > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:07 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I have been searching for a > > > > schematic that > > > > > > > > > > shows how the Allison WTEC and DDEC III are wired and what should > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > on each lead. I have a BB drawing that shows the control switches > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > relays. I have tested as best I could these circuits and I'm > > > > > > > > > > satisfied that this part is doig what it should. There appears to > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > a lead > > > > > > > > > > (engine brake enable) from the WTEC to a VIM. I suspect this is a > > > > > > > > > > relay. This enable lead opens when all conditions are satisfied > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > the jake to work. This circuit contols the engine brake disable > > > > lead > > > > > > > > > > to the DDEC III. Is anyone familiar with this circuit and know > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > to look for it. I may be on a wild goose chase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the jake brake is working its not real loud inside the coach. > > > > > > > > > > Here in the mountians you definately know when it isn't. Going > > > > down a > > > > > > > > > > 6% grade for about a mile without a jake or a retarder will get > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnny M Slone > > > > > > > > > > Pikeville, Ky > > > > > > > > > > 98 LXI > > > > > > > > |
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09-18-2008, 00:38
Post: #15
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Jake Brake Problem
I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have
from the Allison website. Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get many with the coach. Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC. My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess. Thanks. Johnny Slone Pikeville, Ky 98 LXI |
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09-18-2008, 01:00
Post: #16
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Jake Brake Problem
could also be that the prompts are working and it is issue with the
input, like the fuel pedal not returing all the way relaxed??? the mechanical end of the electronics. GregoryO'Connor 94ptRomolandCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone" > > I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have > from the Allison website. > > Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get > many with the coach. > > Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC. > > My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot > locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess. > Thanks. > Johnny Slone > Pikeville, Ky > 98 LXI > |
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09-18-2008, 01:36
Post: #17
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Jake Brake Problem
Johnny,
I just posted some photos of the location of the Cannon Plugs, I thought I had 5, but there are 6 of them. Click on new photos on the home page, For the blueprint I'll have to e-mail them directly to you. they are too big for the Forum. If your transmission is down shifting the problem lies in the Jake Brake/Engine wiring, I would think, but this is not my specialty. I'm sure some of the guys will lend a hand in this. Kurt Horvath 95 PT-42 10AC - In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone" > > I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have > from the Allison website. > > Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get > many with the coach. > > Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC. > > My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot > locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess. > Thanks. > Johnny Slone > Pikeville, Ky > 98 LXI > |
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09-18-2008, 01:40
Post: #18
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Jake Brake Problem
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09-18-2008, 01:45
Post: #19
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Jake Brake Problem
That's true. If the sensor on the pedal does not go to 0 it will not
activate the Jake. Unfortunatly I replaced min last year, so I'm looking further down the line. It is something for Johnny to check Kurt Horvath 95 PT-42 10AC --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > > could also be that the prompts are working and it is issue with the > input, like the fuel pedal not returing all the way relaxed??? the > mechanical end of the electronics. > GregoryO'Connor > 94ptRomolandCa > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone" > > > > > I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I > have > > from the Allison website. > > > > Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't > get > > many with the coach. > > > > Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC. > > > > My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but > cannot > > locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess. > > Thanks. > > Johnny Slone > > Pikeville, Ky > > 98 LXI > > > |
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09-18-2008, 01:49
Post: #20
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Jake Brake Problem
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny M Slone"
Here is a link to the general overview of a generic DDEC system and its inputs and outputs.. Others may have additional options. http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/liter...ematic.htm Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA > > I wonder if ATEC and WTEC are the same trans ECU. The schematic I have > from the Allison website. > > Leroy I'm not sure that I have the drawing you mention as I didn't get > many with the coach. > > Kurt, would these pin locations be at the trans ECU and DDEC. > > My big problem is that I can understand a trouble on paper but cannot > locate where it on the coach. Comes with age I guess. > Thanks. > Johnny Slone > Pikeville, Ky > 98 LXI > |
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