RIV Report?

[David Brady]

Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell

a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

buying public demands expandable rooms. There are

many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,

but please, let's not single out the expandable room.



David Brady

'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)





Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

John,



I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too much

blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380 owners did

give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who have

the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-law

owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he wouldn't

buy another one because they where going to start putting slide outs

in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

[Lloyd Chaffin]

Ernie, I am in Haslet (north edge of Fort Worth) which was in the
country when we built our house here 30 years ago. Ross Perot Jr moved
in and now we have an Airport, Cabela's, and a Nascar track in our back
yard. Speaking of which, the Bird and I are fixen to go park at Texas
Motor Speedway for a few days of Nascar racing fun.

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
>
> LLoyd, I see that you have a Ft Worth phone number. Where are you
located?
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, Texas
>
> **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your
favorites,
> no registration required and great graphics â€" check it out!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x...89022/aol?
redir=
> http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
>

[David Brady]

But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which

resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,

electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc. The

customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome

which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,

which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating in

a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People

invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things

in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate

these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market share.

Slides are in this category.



It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the

motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to

accommodate these features without first doing the necessary

engineering.



BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their insistence

on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was

designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB

simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In all

cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to

subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support

slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By

providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line into

the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's Wanderlodge

business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".





David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Don Bradner wrote:

David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides deliberately,
I would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin in this
instance.



A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into the
slide business because they had to (because demise was the other
choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach models, and it
is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without them. We would
all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide had not been
invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.



Don Bradner

90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1



On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:



>Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell

>a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

>buying public demands expandable rooms. There are

>many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,

>but please, let's not single out the expandable room.

>

>David Brady

>'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)

>

>

>Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

>>

>> John,

>>

>> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too
much

>> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380
owners did

>> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who
have

>> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My
father-in-law

>> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he
wouldn't

>> buy another one because they where going to start putting
slide outs

>> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Lloyd Chaffin]

David, I know we are getting off subject here for this RIV thread but I
must respond to your slide comments. I agree with everything you are
saying. Once everybody went to slides Bluebird had to or they would have
never sold any coaches. And they did do what you just explained to a
point. They desinged a great slide structure into the coach but a slide
is only as good as it's weakest link. No matter how strong it's
structure is if it won't slide in and out or leaks like a water falls
when it rains then it would be best not to have it. If I'm not mistaken
doesn't your 02 LXI have the air seal on your slide. How many times have
you had it replaced because it leaks? The air seals and the electronics
were a very weak link on the LXI and M380 and since they never worked
right the slide was a major pain. I don't no about the LXI owners but
alot of M380 owners actually got rid of it because of the slides and
some other issues. If you had a 80 thousand dollar Lexus that ran like a
swiss watch but the driver door would not stay shut and leaked when it
rains would you say you had a great car? The differance in my example is
that I bet Lexus would have fixed my drivers door the 1st time I took it
to them. I know people who have had their air seals replaced 5 or 6
times. The 1st time I drove my coach all the way to Georgia to have my
air seals fixed they put some supper glue on them and gave it back to
me. Said it was fixed. Lasted about 2 weeks before they started leaking
again. But, the good news is I have worked on my slides so much now that
I just about know how to fix them myself if I could just get the parts.
Some of the electronics are real hard to fix but the air seals are made
by HWH and the newer seals are lasting must longer now,,,knock on wood.

I hope you have a great day, I'm fixen to get the Bird ready to go to
the Nascar races at Texas Motor Speedway,

Lloyd Chaffin

2004 M380


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady wrote:
>
> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which
> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,
> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc. The
> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome
> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,
> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating in
> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People
> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things
> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate
> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market share.
> Slides are in this category.
>
> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the
> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to
> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary
> engineering.
>
> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their insistence
> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was
> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB
> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In all
> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to
> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support
> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By
> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line into
> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's Wanderlodge
> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".
>
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Don Bradner wrote:
> >
> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides deliberately, I
> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin in this
> > instance.
> >
> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into the
> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the other
> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach models, and
> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without them. We
> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide had not
> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.
> >
> > Don Bradner
> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> >
> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:
> >
> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell
> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The
> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are
> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,
> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.
> > >
> > >David Brady
> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)
> > >
> > >
> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> John,
> > >>
> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too much
> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380 owners
did
> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who
have
> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-law
> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he
wouldn't
> > >> buy another one because they where going to start putting slide
outs
> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[Kurt Horvath]

David,

I'd be surprised if Ross doesn't go ballistic over your post.

From what I've heard and read about the 450's is even after the fix
they have a cargo capacity of maybe a case of beer. That's not ground
up engineering. That a screw up!

It's time we faced it folks, the factory has run it`s course. It's
over, CCW has bought a Brand name and they are running with it.
That's fine, The son is not guilty of the fathers sins. It must be
disheartening to have bought into this position.

We are the people who will continue the Legacy. It won't be the guy
that drops 1.2 Million on a coach, because when he gets pissed he
sells or sues and moves on,.

Our time is now. The Wanderlodge is now a collectable, an antique, a
classic vehicle, it will remain as such because of us. Why, because
we want it to, not because of factory support.

If you call waiting 5 to 10 weeks to get a few aluminized pipes for
my exhaust factory support, then I can do with out it. I'll just
build it myself, and if you want one I'll build one for you, now
that's owner support!


Kurt Horvath
94 PT 42
10AC

PS. In our case we drive more than we camp so the slides are just in
the way. Sooner or latter your going to have an argument with that
slide




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which
> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,
> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc.
The
> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome
> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,
> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating
in
> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People
> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things
> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate
> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market
share.
> Slides are in this category.
>
> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the
> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to
> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary
> engineering.
>
> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their
insistence
> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was
> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB
> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In
all
> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to
> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support
> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By
> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line into
> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's
Wanderlodge
> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".
>
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Don Bradner wrote:
> >
> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides
deliberately, I
> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin in
this
> > instance.
> >
> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into
the
> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the other
> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach models,
and
> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without them.
We
> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide had
not
> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.
> >
> > Don Bradner
> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> >
> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:
> >
> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell
> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The
> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are
> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,
> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.
> > >
> > >David Brady
> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)
> > >
> > >
> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> John,
> > >>
> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too
much
> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380
owners did
> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who
have
> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-
law
> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he
wouldn't
> > >> buy another one because they where going to start putting
slide outs
> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[John]

As a new owner here is my thoughts.

I just bought an 83 FC35 with only 58,000 miles on it.

It needs allot of work

Do I expect factory support....... No

Do I expect that I will have to find another source for most everything....... YES

I will depend on the support of this and other web boards and the new friends I am making along the way.

I expect to keep this bird running a very long time.

I know that I will have to substitue things that break with different equipment along the way. As an example I am replacing both vents with Fantastics.

I know that the bird will not remain "Pure" as it was from the factory, but I expect that I will have a wonderfull coach that will last as long as I wish to maintain it.

.

Nothing last forever,

But looking forward to many years with our NEW BIRD

Thanks

John & Pong

Penryn Ca

1983 FC35 Cat 3208t

----- Original Message -----

From: "kguns@hughes.net"

To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 08:09

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: RIV Report?

David,

I'd be surprised if Ross doesn't go ballistic over your post.

From what I've heard and read about the 450's is even after the fix
they have a cargo capacity of maybe a case of beer. That's not ground
up engineering. That a screw up!

It's time we faced it folks, the factory has run it`s course. It's
over, CCW has bought a Brand name and they are running with it.
That's fine, The son is not guilty of the fathers sins. It must be
disheartening to have bought into this position.

We are the people who will continue the Legacy. It won't be the guy
that drops 1.2 Million on a coach, because when he gets pissed he
sells or sues and moves on,.

Our time is now. The Wanderlodge is now a collectable, an antique, a
classic vehicle, it will remain as such because of us. Why, because
we want it to, not because of factory support.

If you call waiting 5 to 10 weeks to get a few aluminized pipes for
my exhaust factory support, then I can do with out it. I'll just
build it myself, and if you want one I'll build one for you, now
that's owner support!

Kurt Horvath
94 PT 42
10AC

PS. In our case we drive more than we camp so the slides are just in
the way. Sooner or latter your going to have an argument with that
slide

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", David Brady
wrote:
>
> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which
> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,
> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc.
The
> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome
> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,
> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating
in
> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People
> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things
> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate
> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market
share.
> Slides are in this category.
>
> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the
> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to
> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary
> engineering.
>
> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their
insistence
> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was
> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB
> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In
all
> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to
> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support
> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By
> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line into
> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's
Wanderlodge
> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".
>
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Don Bradner wrote:
> >
> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides
deliberately, I
> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin in
this
> > instance.
> >
> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into
the
> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the other
> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach models,
and
> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without them.
We
> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide had
not
> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.
> >
> > Don Bradner
> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> >
> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:
> >
> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell
> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The
> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are
> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,
> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.
> > >
> > >David Brady
> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)
> > >
> > >
> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> John,
> > >>
> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too
much
> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380
owners did
> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who
have
> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-
law
> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he
wouldn't
> > >> buy another one because they where going to start putting
slide outs
> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

No virus found in this outgoing message
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (4.0.0.26 - 10.100.048).
http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/

[David Brady]

I know... that 450 is loaded with heavy electronics!



Kurt, I coundn't agree more with what you've said.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Kurt Horvath wrote:

David,



I'd be surprised if Ross doesn't go ballistic over your post.



>From what I've heard and read about the 450's is even after the fix


they have a cargo capacity of maybe a case of beer. That's not ground

up engineering. That a screw up!



It's time we faced it folks, the factory has run it`s course. It's

over, CCW has bought a Brand name and they are running with it.

That's fine, The son is not guilty of the fathers sins. It must be

disheartening to have bought into this position.



We are the people who will continue the Legacy. It won't be the guy

that drops 1.2 Million on a coach, because when he gets pissed he

sells or sues and moves on,.



Our time is now. The Wanderlodge is now a collectable, an antique, a

classic vehicle, it will remain as such because of us. Why, because

we want it to, not because of factory support.



If you call waiting 5 to 10 weeks to get a few aluminized pipes for

my exhaust factory support, then I can do with out it. I'll just

build it myself, and if you want one I'll build one for you, now

that's owner support!



Kurt Horvath

94 PT 42

10AC



PS. In our case we drive more than we camp so the slides are just in

the way. Sooner or latter your going to have an argument with that

slide



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..."

wrote:

>

> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which

> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,

> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc.


The

> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome

> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,

> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating


in

> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People

> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things

> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate

> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market

share.

> Slides are in this category.

>

> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the

> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to

> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary

> engineering.

>

> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their

insistence

> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was

> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB

> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In

all

> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to

> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support

> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By

> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line
into

> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's

Wanderlodge

> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".

>

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> Don Bradner wrote:

> >

> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides

deliberately, I

> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin
in

this

> > instance.

> >

> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming
into

the

> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the
other

> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach
models,

and

> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without
them.

We

> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide
had

not

> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.

> >

> > Don Bradner

> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

> > My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

> >

> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:

> >

> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell

> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are

> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of
Wanderlodge,

> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.

> > >

> > >David Brady

> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)

> > >

> > >

> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

> > >>

> > >> John,

> > >>

> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have
put too

much

> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot
of M380

owners did

> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you
guys who

have

> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My
father-in-

law

> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he
said he

wouldn't

> > >> buy another one because they where going to start
putting

slide outs

> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >>

> > >>

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Rob Robinson]

Can't get a more frank and honest evaluation than that. For all the reasons you have detailed Lloyd I am truly thankfull I own a BB with rivets and without slides.

2008/10/28 Lloyd Chaffin <"lnchaffin@charter.net">

David, I know we are getting off subject here for this RIV thread but I
must respond to your slide comments. I agree with everything you are
saying. Once everybody went to slides Bluebird had to or they would have

never sold any coaches. And they did do what you just explained to a
point. They desinged a great slide structure into the coach but a slide
is only as good as it's weakest link. No matter how strong it's

structure is if it won't slide in and out or leaks like a water falls
when it rains then it would be best not to have it. If I'm not mistaken
doesn't your 02 LXI have the air seal on your slide. How many times have

you had it replaced because it leaks? The air seals and the electronics
were a very weak link on the LXI and M380 and since they never worked
right the slide was a major pain. I don't no about the LXI owners but

alot of M380 owners actually got rid of it because of the slides and
some other issues. If you had a 80 thousand dollar Lexus that ran like a
swiss watch but the driver door would not stay shut and leaked when it

rains would you say you had a great car? The differance in my example is
that I bet Lexus would have fixed my drivers door the 1st time I took it
to them. I know people who have had their air seals replaced 5 or 6

times. The 1st time I drove my coach all the way to Georgia to have my
air seals fixed they put some supper glue on them and gave it back to
me. Said it was fixed. Lasted about 2 weeks before they started leaking

again. But, the good news is I have worked on my slides so much now that
I just about know how to fix them myself if I could just get the parts.
Some of the electronics are real hard to fix but the air seals are made

by HWH and the newer seals are lasting must longer now,,,knock on wood.

I hope you have a great day, I'm fixen to get the Bird ready to go to
the Nascar races at Texas Motor Speedway,

Lloyd Chaffin


2004 M380

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", David Brady wrote:
>
> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which

> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,
> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc. The
> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome

> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,
> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating in
> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People

> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things
> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate
> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market share.

> Slides are in this category.
>
> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the
> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to
> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary

> engineering.
>
> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their insistence
> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was
> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB

> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In all
> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to
> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support

> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By
> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line into
> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's Wanderlodge

> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".
>
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Don Bradner wrote:
> >
> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides deliberately, I

> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin in this
> > instance.
> >
> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into the
> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the other

> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach models, and
> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without them. We
> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide had not

> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.
> >
> > Don Bradner
> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

> >
> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:
> >
> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell
> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are
> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,
> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.
> > >

> > >David Brady
> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)
> > >
> > >
> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> John,
> > >>

> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too much
> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380 owners
did
> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who

have
> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-law
> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he
wouldn't
> > >> buy another one because they where going to start putting slide

outs
> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

[David Brady]

Hi Lloyd,



When I first purchased my coach 4 years ago, the slide seal was

replaced and I've had nothing but success since then. I always

like to remind slide equipped LXi owners to never over inflate the

seal. This is the primary reason for failures. My slide and the

controls associated with it are HWH items. HWH is very clear

that max pressure for the seal is 12 to 15 psi. Believe it or not, mine

seals with as little as 8 to 10 psi, so that's what I do. I run 8 to

10 psi in my slide seal. I'm a little confused by your statement

that "the air seals and the electronics were a very weak link on

the LXi". My slide is hydraulically powered, dirt simple, and built

by HWH. I've had nothing but stellar performance from it during

my 4 year ownership. Maybe you're referring to the 450LXi. The

beauty of the air seal is that it's very forgiving of slide alignment -

it just fills in the gap. Many owners put in a new seal and discover

that there's a gap between the body and seal when the seal is

inflated. This may occur if the slide/body gap exceeds 5/8". Don't

over inflate to fill the gap. The new seals are stiff and will stretch.

Sometimes stretching takes several weeks. Be patient. They will

stretch to a great degree.



Lloyd, is this your only complaint about the M380? Otherwise is

it a good coach giving good service? I've heard great things about

the 380. They ride and handle great. The maneuverability is unmatched.

George Morris told me a story of one falling six feet off a set of those

bus lifting jacks ( the type Prevost Car uses: one jack per wheel).
There

was some minor body damage. They sent it in for alignment and the

bus was perfectly straight - a very strong structure.



If that's it, just the slide, then hang out here and we'll get it
fixed. If

it's like my LXi slide, then it's infinitely adjustable on every axis.

Be glad for the air seal. Many other manufacturers don't use it cause

its expensive. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water! If the

superstructure/chassis/frame is high quality, that's all that matters,

everything else can be fixed.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

David, I know we are getting off subject here for this RIV thread but I

must respond to your slide comments. I agree with everything you are

saying. Once everybody went to slides Bluebird had to or they would have

never sold any coaches. And they did do what you just explained to a

point. They desinged a great slide structure into the coach but a slide

is only as good as it's weakest link. No matter how strong it's

structure is if it won't slide in and out or leaks like a water falls

when it rains then it would be best not to have it. If I'm not mistaken

doesn't your 02 LXI have the air seal on your slide. How many times have

you had it replaced because it leaks? The air seals and the electronics

were a very weak link on the LXI and M380 and since they never worked

right the slide was a major pain. I don't no about the LXI owners but

alot of M380 owners actually got rid of it because of the slides and

some other issues. If you had a 80 thousand dollar Lexus that ran like a

swiss watch but the driver door would not stay shut and leaked when it

rains would you say you had a great car? The differance in my example is

that I bet Lexus would have fixed my drivers door the 1st time I took it

to them. I know people who have had their air seals replaced 5 or 6

times. The 1st time I drove my coach all the way to Georgia to have my

air seals fixed they put some supper glue on them and gave it back to

me. Said it was fixed. Lasted about 2 weeks before they started leaking

again. But, the good news is I have worked on my slides so much now that

I just about know how to fix them myself if I could just get the parts.

Some of the electronics are real hard to fix but the air seals are made

by HWH and the newer seals are lasting must longer now,,,knock on wood.



I hope you have a great day, I'm fixen to get the Bird ready to go to

the Nascar races at Texas Motor Speedway,



Lloyd Chaffin



2004 M380



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..." wrote:

>

> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which

> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,

> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc.
The

> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome

> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,

> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating
in

> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People

> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things

> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate

> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market
share.

> Slides are in this category.

>

> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the

> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to

> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary

> engineering.

>

> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their
insistence

> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was

> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB

> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In
all

> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to

> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support

> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By

> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line
into

> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's
Wanderlodge

> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".

>

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> Don Bradner wrote:

> >

> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides
deliberately, I

> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin
in this

> > instance.

> >

> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming
into the

> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the
other

> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach
models, and

> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without
them. We

> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide
had not

> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.

> >

> > Don Bradner

> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

> > My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

> >

> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:

> >

> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell

> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are

> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of
Wanderlodge,

> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.

> > >

> > >David Brady

> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)

> > >

> > >

> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

> > >>

> > >> John,

> > >>

> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have
put too much

> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot
of M380 owners

did

> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you
guys who

have

> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My
father-in-law

> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he
said he

wouldn't

> > >> buy another one because they where going to start
putting slide

outs

> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >>

> > >>

> >

> >

> >

----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Ross]

Hydraulic slide?? Air seals??--Aqua-Hot ??? nice, but-- not in
450LXi

Ross


> Hi Lloyd,
>
> W-------------. My slide is hydraulically powered, dirt simple, and
built
> by HWH. I've had nothing but stellar performance from it during
> my 4 year ownership.------------------------
>--------------- If that's it, just the slide, then hang out here and
we'll get it fixed. If
> it's like my LXi slide, then it's infinitely adjustable on every
axis.
> Be glad for the air seal. Many other manufacturers don't use it
cause
> its expensive. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water! If the
> superstructure/chassis/frame is high quality, that's all that
matters,
> everything else can be fixed.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
>-