Slides on Newer Birds

[Lloyd Chaffin]

David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we might
better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My seals
have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat better
but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air
pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them leaking
and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt them.
After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure I
turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not
helped my leaking issue.

You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your blessings.
Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom slide is
run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes that's
correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to
make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v" slide.
Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and needs
over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get ready to
move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air up
the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes, I
have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with the
suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if you
start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's
normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software" involved
along with several different sensors, air activated and electric
locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide work.
The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The
hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird
and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just for
starters.

Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it
several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well built
frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND
issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a
complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380
and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I
think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have wanted
to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are not
a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380
friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches fixed.
Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people
to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason why I
am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what
happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet
group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we
didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get our
coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not
supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still
purchased
a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have bought a
Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and 450
owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches has
possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW already
be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW
treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners because
there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At
least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and
hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of these
people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix in
sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that I
couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have bought
one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.

Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal
pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and
thanks for letting me vent some!

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
Haslet TX

[Rob Robinson]

LLoyd I think the millions of dollars pumped in from 380 and 450 purchases was kinda before the CCW entrance. In all fairness they inherited more warranty than royalty.

2008/10/28 Lloyd Chaffin <"lnchaffin@charter.net">

David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we might
better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My seals
have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat better
but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air

pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them leaking
and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt them.
After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure I
turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not

helped my leaking issue.

You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your blessings.
Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom slide is
run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes that's

correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to
make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v" slide.
Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and needs

over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get ready to
move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air up
the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes, I
have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with the

suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if you
start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's
normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software" involved

along with several different sensors, air activated and electric
locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide work.
The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The
hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird

and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just for
starters.

Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it
several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well built

frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND
issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a
complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380
and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I

think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have wanted
to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are not
a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380
friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches fixed.

Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people
to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason why I
am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what
happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet

group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we
didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get our
coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not

supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still
purchased
a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have bought a
Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and 450

owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches has
possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW already
be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW
treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners because

there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At
least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and
hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of these
people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix in

sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that I
couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have bought
one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.

Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal

pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and
thanks for letting me vent some!

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
Haslet TX

--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

[Ross MacKillop]

Just for a little more information.  The 450LXi  front slide has 28 V motors.  The batteries supply 120 volt through the inverter which in turn goes to a converter which supplies the 28 volt motors. This converter runs full time, whenever the inverter is on. Makes dry camping tough. Air pressure is required to realease the lock pins (with some luck)

Ross

---

From: Lloyd Chaffin
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:04:17 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Slides on Newer Birds

David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we might

better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My seals

have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat better

but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air

pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them leaking

and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt them.

After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure I

turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not

helped my leaking issue.



You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your blessings.

Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom slide is

run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes that's

correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to

make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v" slide.

Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and needs

over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get ready to

move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air up

the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes, I

have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with the

suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if you

start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's

normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software" involved

along with several different sensors, air activated and electric

locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide work.

The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The

hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird

and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just for

starters.



Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it

several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well built

frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND

issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a

complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380

and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I

think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have wanted

to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are not

a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380

friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches fixed.

Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people

to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason why I

am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what

happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet

group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we

didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get our

coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not

supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still

purchased

a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have bought a

Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and 450

owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches has

possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW already

be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW

treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners because

there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At

least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and

hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of these

people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix in

sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that I

couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have bought

one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.



Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal

pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and

thanks for letting me vent some!



Lloyd Chaffin

2004 M380

Haslet TX

---

Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Ross MacKillop]

I think that you will find that BB is footing the bills for the BIG warrenty/recall issues. Don't blame CCW- they do what BB allows-  BB wants out for as little $ as possible.  Screw you attitude- they  don't care if another Wanderlodge is sold.

Perhaps this is the reason owners are holding back. CCW should succeed-  BB doesn't give a da''  Other owners believed the the fluff.  They took the coach. If they overload the coach- It's not BB 's liability.  Enough said.   For now. 

Ross

---

From: Rob Robinson
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:21:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Slides on Newer Birds

LLoyd I think the millions of dollars pumped in from 380 and 450 purchases was kinda before the CCW entrance. In all fairness they inherited more warranty than royalty.

2008/10/28 Lloyd Chaffin <"lnchaffin@charter.net">

David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we might
better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My seals
have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat better
but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air

pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them leaking
and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt them.
After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure I
turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not

helped my leaking issue.

You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your blessings.
Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom slide is
run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes that's

correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to
make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v" slide.
Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and needs

over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get ready to
move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air up
the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes, I
have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with the

suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if you
start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's
normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software" involved

along with several different sensors, air activated and electric
locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide work.
The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The
hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird

and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just for
starters.

Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it
several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well built

frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND
issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a
complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380
and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I

think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have wanted
to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are not
a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380
friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches fixed.

Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people
to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason why I
am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what
happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet

group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we
didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get our
coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not

supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still
purchased
a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have bought a
Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and 450

owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches has
possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW already
be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW
treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners because

there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At
least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and
hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of these
people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix in

sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that I
couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have bought
one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.

Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal

pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and
thanks for letting me vent some!

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
Haslet TX

--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

---

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.

[Lloyd Chaffin]

Thanks David, right when you think you have figured something out
there is always someone who has a good insite and some great
information to help. I have already adjusted my air seal pressure
down to 12lbs, was at 23lbs. Can't wait to try playing with your fix
for the Aux compressor at the races this weekend. I have always been
bummed that it has never worked right. By the way I am seriously
thinking about having the HWH Active Air system installed on my coach
and that should replumb a buch of stuff and maybe fix some strang
problems I am having with my air systems. Or maybe I will add some
more stuff to go wrong! Ha

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> Hi Lloyd,
>
> Regarding the aux air compressor not pressurizing the
> system, many of the older birds have the same issue.
> Try this: when leveling your coach and before you turn off the
> ignition but after everything else is set, try turning the susp dump
> valve back on for about five seconds before you turn off the
> ignition. This changes the air flow circuits and should allow
> the aux compressor to pressurize the system. It's worth
> a try. This info is from Bennie.
>
> I've always wandered why more 380/450 owners don't
> speak up. On the one hand you may be granted more
> factory favors by remaining silent, on the other, banding
> together on a public forum will certainly pressure BB to
> step up to the plate and provide real solutions. Thanks
> for the clarification on the types of failures you are seeing
> and on the complexities of the systems on your coach.
> Wow, very enlightening. I now better understand your
> frustration. Your systems are quite a bit different from mine,
> but the wanderlodge community is a real hands on set of people,
> and can probably offer solutions for many of your issues.
>
> Over inflating a slide seal may actually cause leaks. If you
> consider that the seal is say 40 ft long and 1" wide even at
> 10 psi it exerts 4800 lbs of force on the slide. This can deflect
> the sides of the slide causing the gaps between the slide and
> the coach to enlarge. Also, when installing the air seal, special
> attention must be paid to the corners. The HWH instruction
> sheet details this, but many installers ignore the instructions.
> If not installed correctly, the corners can crimp which allows
> a gap for water to enter, and over inflating can actually make
> the crimping worse. Install a pressure gauge and turn the pressure
> down.
>
> Best of luck,
> David
>
> Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
> >
> > David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we might
> > better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My
seals
> > have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat
better
> > but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air
> > pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them
leaking
> > and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt
them.
> > After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure
I
> > turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not
> > helped my leaking issue.
> >
> > You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your
blessings.
> > Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom
slide is
> > run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes
that's
> > correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to
> > make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v"
slide.
> > Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and
needs
> > over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get
ready to
> > move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air
up
> > the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes,
I
> > have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with
the
> > suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if
you
> > start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's
> > normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software"
involved
> > along with several different sensors, air activated and electric
> > locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide
work.
> > The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The
> > hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird
> > and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just
for
> > starters.
> >
> > Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it
> > several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well
built
> > frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND
> > issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a
> > complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380
> > and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I
> > think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have
wanted
> > to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are
not
> > a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380
> > friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches
fixed.
> > Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people
> > to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason
why I
> > am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what
> > happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet
> > group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we
> > didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get
our
> > coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not
> > supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still
> > purchased
> > a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have
bought a
> > Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and
450
> > owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches
has
> > possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW
already
> > be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW
> > treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners
because
> > there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At
> > least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and
> > hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of
these
> > people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix
in
> > sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that
I
> > couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have
bought
> > one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.
> >
> > Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal
> > pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and
> > thanks for letting me vent some!
> >
> > Lloyd Chaffin
> > 2004 M380
> > Haslet TX
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[David Brady]

Hi Lloyd,




Regarding the aux air compressor not pressurizing the

system, many of the older birds have the same issue.

Try this: when
leveling your coach and before you turn off the

ignition but after
everything else is set, try turning the susp dump

valve back on for
about five seconds before you turn off the

ignition. This changes the
air flow circuits and should allow

the aux compressor to pressurize the system. It's worth

a try. This info is from Bennie.



I've always wandered why more 380/450 owners don't


speak up. On the one hand you may be granted more


factory favors by remaining silent, on the other, banding


together on a public forum will certainly pressure BB to


step up to the plate and provide real solutions. Thanks


for the clarification on the types of failures you are seeing


and on the complexities of the systems on your coach.


Wow, very enlightening. I now better understand your


frustration. Your systems are quite a bit different from mine,

but the wanderlodge community is a real hands on set of people,

and can probably offer solutions for many of your issues.



Over inflating a slide seal may actually cause leaks. If you


consider that the seal is say 40 ft long and 1" wide even at


10 psi it exerts 4800 lbs of force on the slide. This can deflect


the sides of the slide causing the gaps between the slide and


the coach to enlarge. Also, when installing the air seal, special


attention must be paid to the corners. The HWH instruction


sheet details this, but many installers ignore the instructions.


If not installed correctly, the corners can crimp which allows


a gap for water to enter, and over inflating can actually make


the crimping worse. Install a pressure gauge and turn the pressure


down.




Best of luck,


David




Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we might


better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My seals

have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat better

but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air

pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them leaking

and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt them.

After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure I

turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not

helped my leaking issue.



You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your blessings.

Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom slide is

run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes that's

correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to

make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v" slide.

Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and needs

over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get ready to

move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air up

the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes, I

have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with the

suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if you

start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's

normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software" involved

along with several different sensors, air activated and electric

locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide work.

The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The

hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird

and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just for

starters.



Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it

several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well built

frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND

issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a

complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380

and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I

think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have wanted

to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are not

a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380

friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches fixed.

Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people

to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason why I

am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what

happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet

group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we

didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get our

coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not

supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still

purchased

a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have bought a

Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and 450

owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches has

possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW already

be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW

treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners because

there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At

least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and

hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of these

people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix in

sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that I

couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have bought

one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.



Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal

pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and

thanks for letting me vent some!



Lloyd Chaffin

2004 M380

Haslet TX

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[David Brady]

This I find a little hard to believe. CCW must have negotiated some

sort of future payouts from Cerberus to cover future warranty work.

To not do so opens CCW up to an almost unlimited loss.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Rob Robinson wrote:

LLoyd I think the millions of dollars pumped in from 380 and 450
purchases was kinda before the CCW entrance. In all fairness they
inherited more warranty than royalty.

2008/10/28 Lloyd Chaffin <"lnchaffin@charter.net">

David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we
might

better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My seals

have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat better

but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air

pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them leaking

and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt them.

After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make sure I

turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not

helped my leaking issue.



You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your blessings.

Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom slide is

run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes that's

correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide to

make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v" slide.

Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and needs

over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get ready to

move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and air up

the system while waking people up just to put your slide in. Yes, I

have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system with the

suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but if you

start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's

normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software" involved

along with several different sensors, air activated and electric

locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide work.

The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The

hardware and software that run the slides was not made by Bluebird

and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just for

starters.



Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it

several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well built

frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND

issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a

complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my M380

and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I

think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have wanted

to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there are not

a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380

friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches fixed.

Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people

to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason why I

am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know what

happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet

group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we

didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never get our

coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy" and "not

supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still

purchased

a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have bought a

Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380 and 450

owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these coaches has

possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW already

be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW

treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners because

there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them. At

least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand and

hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of these

people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no fix in

sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is that I

couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have bought

one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.



Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal

pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and

thanks for letting me vent some!



Lloyd Chaffin

2004 M380

Haslet TX

--

Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Lloyd Chaffin]

David, just read my last post to you after you helped me today. For
some reason it doesn't sound right to me and I just wanted to make
sure you know I meant to say Thank You! It sounded condescending to
me after I read it again but surely wasn't intended that way. I
really am grateful for the information and have done both the things
you suggested. Thanks again and look forward to getting help and
trying to give help on the forums in the future.

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Chaffin"
wrote:
>
> Thanks David, right when you think you have figured something out
> there is always someone who has a good insite and some great
> information to help. I have already adjusted my air seal pressure
> down to 12lbs, was at 23lbs. Can't wait to try playing with your
fix
> for the Aux compressor at the races this weekend. I have always
been
> bummed that it has never worked right. By the way I am seriously
> thinking about having the HWH Active Air system installed on my
coach
> and that should replumb a buch of stuff and maybe fix some strang
> problems I am having with my air systems. Or maybe I will add some
> more stuff to go wrong! Ha
>
> Lloyd Chaffin
> 2004 M380
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lloyd,
> >
> > Regarding the aux air compressor not pressurizing the
> > system, many of the older birds have the same issue.
> > Try this: when leveling your coach and before you turn off the
> > ignition but after everything else is set, try turning the susp
dump
> > valve back on for about five seconds before you turn off the
> > ignition. This changes the air flow circuits and should allow
> > the aux compressor to pressurize the system. It's worth
> > a try. This info is from Bennie.
> >
> > I've always wandered why more 380/450 owners don't
> > speak up. On the one hand you may be granted more
> > factory favors by remaining silent, on the other, banding
> > together on a public forum will certainly pressure BB to
> > step up to the plate and provide real solutions. Thanks
> > for the clarification on the types of failures you are seeing
> > and on the complexities of the systems on your coach.
> > Wow, very enlightening. I now better understand your
> > frustration. Your systems are quite a bit different from mine,
> > but the wanderlodge community is a real hands on set of people,
> > and can probably offer solutions for many of your issues.
> >
> > Over inflating a slide seal may actually cause leaks. If you
> > consider that the seal is say 40 ft long and 1" wide even at
> > 10 psi it exerts 4800 lbs of force on the slide. This can deflect
> > the sides of the slide causing the gaps between the slide and
> > the coach to enlarge. Also, when installing the air seal, special
> > attention must be paid to the corners. The HWH instruction
> > sheet details this, but many installers ignore the instructions.
> > If not installed correctly, the corners can crimp which allows
> > a gap for water to enter, and over inflating can actually make
> > the crimping worse. Install a pressure gauge and turn the
pressure
> > down.
> >
> > Best of luck,
> > David
> >
> > Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
> > >
> > > David thanks, that is some good information and I thought we
might
> > > better start another thread since I got so far off of RIV. My
> seals
> > > have always leaked when it rains. A new seal made it somewhat
> better
> > > but still leaks. Wendell at Fort Valley actually raised the air
> > > pressure in my seals to 25lbs because I complained about them
> leaking
> > > and he said that is all you can do. He said that would not hurt
> them.
> > > After getting your post I will go check my pressure and make
sure
> I
> > > turn it down to what you suggest because keeping it high has not
> > > helped my leaking issue.
> > >
> > > You are very very lucky to have the HWH slide. Count your
> blessings.
> > > Our slides where designed and built by Bluebird. The bedroom
> slide is
> > > run by a 12V electric screw motor which needs 120V to work. Yes
> that's
> > > correct. They put a 120v to 12v converter on the bedroom slide
to
> > > make it work so you must have "shore power" to move your "12v"
> slide.
> > > Go figure. The living room slide works off of air pressure and
> needs
> > > over 100lbs of pressure before it will move. So when you get
> ready to
> > > move your coach in the morning you must start the engine and
air
> up
> > > the system while waking people up just to put your slide in.
Yes,
> I
> > > have a 120V Aux compressor but it will not air up the system
with
> the
> > > suspension dumped. It just runs forever and never airs up but
if
> you
> > > start the engine it airs right up. Fort Valley says that's
> > > normal.Both slides have separate computers with "software"
> involved
> > > along with several different sensors, air activated and electric
> > > locking pistons, and a few other goodies to make either slide
> work.
> > > The computers often get confused and have to be rebooted. The
> > > hardware and software that run the slides was not made by
Bluebird
> > > and is very difficult to get or fix. Shall I go on? That's just
> for
> > > starters.
> > >
> > > Yes, David I really like my M380 or I would have gave up on it
> > > several months ago. It does drive like a dream and is very well
> built
> > > frame and suspension wise (I never even mentioned the ALUCIBOND
> > > issues whish is another whole story). I know I sound like a
> > > complainer but I have really spent over 2 years working on my
M380
> > > and taking it back and forth to Fort Valley. I
> > > think I have earned a little venting time. Believe me I have
> wanted
> > > to talk to other owners who have gone through this but there
are
> not
> > > a lot of M380 owners to talk to but I do have a couple good M380
> > > friends and yes they have had hell too getting their coaches
> fixed.
> > > Yall have problems too but at least there are a bunch of people
> > > to talk to on the older coaches. I may be wrong but one reason
> why I
> > > am talking now on this forum is because nobody seems to know
what
> > > happened with M380's and LXI 450's. We have been kind of a quiet
> > > group mainly I think because we all had so many problems that we
> > > didn't want to talk about publicly in fear that we may never
get
> our
> > > coaches fixed. Some comments have been made like "greedy"
and "not
> > > supporting CCW". Even though I didn't buy my 380 new I still
> > > purchased
> > > a almost new (had 7K miles on it) Bluebird when I could have
> bought a
> > > Prevost or something else. Don't you think that maybe the 380
and
> 450
> > > owners pumping millions of dollars into CCW buying these
coaches
> has
> > > possibly helped keep them a float? Just a thought. Would CCW
> already
> > > be defunked if nobody bought a 380 or 450? So why does CCW
> > > treat us like crap? Again I feel so sorry for the 450 owners
> because
> > > there problems surpass mine by far. My heart goes out to them.
At
> > > least I can use my 380 now and I'm only out 10 to 15 thousand
and
> > > hundreds of hours getting mine fixed (Under Warranty). Some of
> these
> > > people's coaches are still sitting and can't be used with no
fix
> in
> > > sight. The only reason why I'm not in that boat with them is
that
> I
> > > couldn't afford a 450 when I purchased my 380 or I would have
> bought
> > > one and my dream coach would be parked at Fort Valley too.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the technical tips and I am going to go check my seal
> > > pressure right now and turn it down. I haven't given up yet and
> > > thanks for letting me vent some!
> > >
> > > Lloyd Chaffin
> > > 2004 M380
> > > Haslet TX
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------
> > >
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
> 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > >
> >
>