Generator Battery Not Charging

[Jeff August]

Tested for charging at the generater battery and are not getting any
veriations in the meter at all. It is a brand new battery, we tested
with the generator off, on , and with the Cat running, no change.
Any Ideas?
Thankyou!
Jeff & Michelle August
1980FC35RB
Plymouth Wi.

[Jeff Miller]

Not sure I remember the '80 accurately, but I believe that the genset
battery originally charged from a resistor pack on the genset
regulator box. No charge from the CAT alternator or shore power.

The "official" fix is to put a stud-mount diode (high amperage)
across the aux. battery solenoid under the entry step in series with
a self-resetting circuit-breaker.

Another fix would be to install a battery isolator to charge the
genset battery from shore/alternator output,

Still another would be to add a battery combiner (essentially
a "smart" solenoid which combines battery banks when charging source
available on any bank, best fix).

If I'm wrong on the original setup, hopefully someone with a
diesel '82 or older genset will help.

- Jeff Miller
http://www.wanderlodge.net


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff August"
wrote:
> Tested for charging at the generater battery and are not getting
any
> veriations in the meter at all. It is a brand new battery, we
tested
> with the generator off, on , and with the Cat running, no change.
> Any Ideas?
> Thankyou!
> Jeff & Michelle August
> 1980FC35RB
> Plymouth Wi.

[Tom Warner]

Chuck the diagram for the 1982 is very simple. There is no OEM generator
charging. They forgot it. Sometime in 1983 from what Benny told me they
came out with a engineering change which provided a diode and a cirucuit
breaker to install across the Aux Battery solenoid to provide it. I have
the engineering change and thought I put it on the forum before.

tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 12:27 AM 5/29/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>I have PDF's of the diagrams from my 82. I will upload them sometime this
>weekend. We do not have a high speed connection so I have to wait till
>Kathy is not using the internet for work.
>
>- Chuck Wheeler -
>82 FC31 - Fort Worth, TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Miller
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 3:18 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Generator Battery Not Charging
>
>
> Not sure I remember the '80 accurately, but I believe that the genset
> battery originally charged from a resistor pack on the genset
> regulator box. No charge from the CAT alternator or shore power.
>
> The "official" fix is to put a stud-mount diode (high amperage)
> across the aux. battery solenoid under the entry step in series with
> a self-resetting circuit-breaker.
>
> Another fix would be to install a battery isolator to charge the
> genset battery from shore/alternator output,
>
> Still another would be to add a battery combiner (essentially
> a "smart" solenoid which combines battery banks when charging source
> available on any bank, best fix).
>
> If I'm wrong on the original setup, hopefully someone with a
> diesel '82 or older genset will help.
>
> - Jeff Miller
> http://www.wanderlodge.net
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff August"
> wrote:
> > Tested for charging at the generater battery and are not getting
> any
> > veriations in the meter at all. It is a brand new battery, we
> tested
> > with the generator off, on , and with the Cat running, no change.
> > Any Ideas?
> > Thankyou!
> > Jeff & Michelle August
> > 1980FC35RB
> > Plymouth Wi.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

I have PDF's of the diagrams from my 82. I will upload them sometime this
weekend. We do not have a high speed connection so I have to wait till
Kathy is not using the internet for work.

- Chuck Wheeler -
82 FC31 - Fort Worth, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Miller
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 3:18 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Generator Battery Not Charging


Not sure I remember the '80 accurately, but I believe that the genset
battery originally charged from a resistor pack on the genset
regulator box. No charge from the CAT alternator or shore power.

The "official" fix is to put a stud-mount diode (high amperage)
across the aux. battery solenoid under the entry step in series with
a self-resetting circuit-breaker.

Another fix would be to install a battery isolator to charge the
genset battery from shore/alternator output,

Still another would be to add a battery combiner (essentially
a "smart" solenoid which combines battery banks when charging source
available on any bank, best fix).

If I'm wrong on the original setup, hopefully someone with a
diesel '82 or older genset will help.

- Jeff Miller
http://www.wanderlodge.net


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff August"
wrote:
> Tested for charging at the generater battery and are not getting
any
> veriations in the meter at all. It is a brand new battery, we
tested
> with the generator off, on , and with the Cat running, no change.
> Any Ideas?
> Thankyou!
> Jeff & Michelle August
> 1980FC35RB
> Plymouth Wi.




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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

Although the diode/breaker fix is correct, the comment that there is no
charging and BB forgot it is not at all correct.

I"m pretty sure that the original genset battery charging on the early
Kohler was a resistor pack in the control box which trickle-charged the
battery from the generator output. This was not very reliable (Kohler's
issue, not BB's) and a later "fix" became available, eventually
replaced in late '82 by the battery isolator system.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Chuck the diagram for the 1982 is very simple. There is no OEM
generator
> charging. They forgot it.<<snip>>

[Tom Warner]

Jeff even after this problem being aired on this forum and the old
wanderlodge forum countless times, the same problem seems to exist which is
how the BB factory provided for the charging of the Kohler Generator on the
1980's FC models. The answer is they did not.

A resistor pack cannot provide DC charging voltage from a AC
source(generator). So throw that idea out.

The Kohler generator apparently had three options, an alternator (which
made no sense to use on the BB version since it already had chargers and an
engine alternator) a Bridge rectifier as part of the controller box, and
nothing as appears to have been how mine was originally equipped (no bridge
rectifier in the control box). BB apparently at least in my
case...nothing. The bridge rectifier version also came with a 8 amp self
setting cirucuit breaker and fed the battery thru a DC meter. The problem
was it only charged the battery when the generator was running and thus no
run no charge. The BB engineers never envisioned that the generator battery
would run down if left in this state for any length of time. When the
generator was running the coach chargers would charge the coach batteries
etc and the same for shore power. Guess thats why so many early BB had so
few hours on them.

You may not want to hear it but BB did make some mistakes in designing and
building these coaches. From what I found out at the factory talking to
Ray Horne when I first bought my coach, the engineers were not aware of
this problem until customers started complaining of run down generator
batteries. Thats when they published the diagram I just uploaded onto the
forum site. Kind of crude but it works.

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY



At 02:11 PM 5/29/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Although the diode/breaker fix is correct, the comment that there is no
>charging and BB forgot it is not at all correct.
>
>I"m pretty sure that the original genset battery charging on the early
>Kohler was a resistor pack in the control box which trickle-charged the
>battery from the generator output. This was not very reliable (Kohler's
>issue, not BB's) and a later "fix" became available, eventually
>replaced in late '82 by the battery isolator system.
>
> - Jeff Miller
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> > Chuck the diagram for the 1982 is very simple. There is no OEM
>generator
> > charging. They forgot it.<<snip>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[randydupree]

kind of crude says it all,in this case. randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Generator Battery Not Charging


Jeff even after this problem being aired on this forum and the old
wanderlodge forum countless times, the same problem seems to exist which is
how the BB factory provided for the charging of the Kohler Generator on the
1980's FC models. The answer is they did not.

A resistor pack cannot provide DC charging voltage from a AC
source(generator). So throw that idea out.

The Kohler generator apparently had three options, an alternator (which
made no sense to use on the BB version since it already had chargers and an
engine alternator) a Bridge rectifier as part of the controller box, and
nothing as appears to have been how mine was originally equipped (no bridge
rectifier in the control box). BB apparently at least in my
case...nothing. The bridge rectifier version also came with a 8 amp self
setting cirucuit breaker and fed the battery thru a DC meter. The problem
was it only charged the battery when the generator was running and thus no
run no charge. The BB engineers never envisioned that the generator battery
would run down if left in this state for any length of time. When the
generator was running the coach chargers would charge the coach batteries
etc and the same for shore power. Guess thats why so many early BB had so
few hours on them.

You may not want to hear it but BB did make some mistakes in designing and
building these coaches. From what I found out at the factory talking to
Ray Horne when I first bought my coach, the engineers were not aware of
this problem until customers started complaining of run down generator
batteries. Thats when they published the diagram I just uploaded onto the
forum site. Kind of crude but it works.

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY



At 02:11 PM 5/29/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Although the diode/breaker fix is correct, the comment that there is no
>charging and BB forgot it is not at all correct.
>
>I"m pretty sure that the original genset battery charging on the early
>Kohler was a resistor pack in the control box which trickle-charged the
>battery from the generator output. This was not very reliable (Kohler's
>issue, not BB's) and a later "fix" became available, eventually
>replaced in late '82 by the battery isolator system.
>
> - Jeff Miller
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> > Chuck the diagram for the 1982 is very simple. There is no OEM
>generator
> > charging. They forgot it.<<snip>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

I know that you for some reason have a need to defame BlueBird's
engineering, or at least you constantly try to, and that's what I
have an issue with. If after 24-1/2 years and ?? owners your coach
doesn't charge its genset battery anymore, that's not IMO BlueBird's
fault. Kohler provided the charging and BlueBird installed it intact.
This forum's purpose (again in my opinion) is not to try to lay blame
on BlueBird or point fingers when older coaches don't function as
new, but to find and share solutions. The solution as I mentioned
days ago was to add the diode and circuit-breaker.

The Kohler did have a charging system in its control box, and it
worked. If owners didn't "exercise" the genset periodically as they
should, yes the battery in pre-'83 had no second charging source.
That IMO is a minor issue, and if owners didn't properly maintain
their coach such as periodically running the genset, keeping the
coach plugged in or batteries disconnected when not in use, checking
air in tires and oil in engines, ... it is likely that they will
suffer failures of inconvenience or worse. BlueBird has no control
over how a coach 1/4 century old is or has been maintained and
operated.

To your "throw that idea out" comment on the resistor pack, it is how
the 117VAC was stepped down to charge a 12VDC system, and yes a
rectifier is also used. Many are in-op by now, and some are still
functioning as designed. The ones that still operate properly are the
ones that surprise me, try that on a gas onan in a windybago.

- Jeff Miller
Happy with the many things that BlueBird did exceptionally well,
tolerant of a few quirks.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Jeff even after this problem being aired on this forum and the old
> wanderlodge forum countless times, the same problem seems to exist
which is
> how the BB factory provided for the charging of the Kohler
Generator on the
> 1980's FC models. The answer is they did not.<<snip>>

[erniecarpet@...]

In a message dated 5/30/2005 1:18:13 PM Central Standard Time,
warbucks@... writes:


> But it has
> shortcomings that I am correcting.
>

Since we have the best coaches on the market, in my opinion, at least we have
something solid to work with. I wonder what another brand will look like in
23 years? Ernie-83PT40 in Texas- people can't believe the interior is 23 years
old. now if it was painted~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

jeff,i learn new stuff from you everyday.thanks for the truth on the charging
systems. randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Generator Battery Not Charging


I know that you for some reason have a need to defame BlueBird's
engineering, or at least you constantly try to, and that's what I
have an issue with. If after 24-1/2 years and ?? owners your coach
doesn't charge its genset battery anymore, that's not IMO BlueBird's
fault. Kohler provided the charging and BlueBird installed it intact.
This forum's purpose (again in my opinion) is not to try to lay blame
on BlueBird or point fingers when older coaches don't function as
new, but to find and share solutions. The solution as I mentioned
days ago was to add the diode and circuit-breaker.

The Kohler did have a charging system in its control box, and it
worked. If owners didn't "exercise" the genset periodically as they
should, yes the battery in pre-'83 had no second charging source.
That IMO is a minor issue, and if owners didn't properly maintain
their coach such as periodically running the genset, keeping the
coach plugged in or batteries disconnected when not in use, checking
air in tires and oil in engines, ... it is likely that they will
suffer failures of inconvenience or worse. BlueBird has no control
over how a coach 1/4 century old is or has been maintained and
operated.

To your "throw that idea out" comment on the resistor pack, it is how
the 117VAC was stepped down to charge a 12VDC system, and yes a
rectifier is also used. Many are in-op by now, and some are still
functioning as designed. The ones that still operate properly are the
ones that surprise me, try that on a gas onan in a windybago.

- Jeff Miller
Happy with the many things that BlueBird did exceptionally well,
tolerant of a few quirks.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Jeff even after this problem being aired on this forum and the old
> wanderlodge forum countless times, the same problem seems to exist
which is
> how the BB factory provided for the charging of the Kohler
Generator on the
> 1980's FC models. The answer is they did not.<<snip>>




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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]