6" SS EXHAUST STACK

[Kurt Horvath]

David,


I think your muffler is 6" inlet & out your pipes from the turbo to
the muffler are 5"

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> The LXi, like your WB, uses a 6 inch muffler. Five inch will
> certainly suck some ponies away.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Kurt Horvath wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yea I've heard that but the one with the liner has fixed the high
> > pressure leaks according to the Mfg. Let's hope. Prevost has from
> > what I recall pipes bent in one piece, they are held together with
> > those nifty band clamps that seat and conform to the pipe
exterior,
> > If the V-Bands and Flanges don't work out I'll go to those pipe
> > clamps. The Flanges are also available with three different types
of
> > gaskets, o-ring, flat, and, and, and I can't remember, oh yea the
> > type I bought, male-female flanges, perfect alignment, leak free,
> > again according to Vibrant Mfg. There is also a Stainless Steel
> > Muffler available that may work well on your coach, but it's inlet
> > outlet is 5" not the 6" like on your coach. well I assume yours is
> > 6"??? Also it is 10" in diameter which would help with crowed
exhaust
> > tunnel.
> >
> > Kurt Horvath
> > 95 Pt 42
> > 10AC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > , David Brady
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Kurt,
> > >
> > > No thanks, I already have a stock muffler. Thanks for the links,
> > > there's some pretty nifty items there. Be careful with those
fancy
> > > braided stainless steel pieces. They look sharp, but they've
always
> > > leaked on my turbocharged subaru wrx. Kurt, you've been around
> > > a few over-the-road coaches, Prevost' and what not, what do they
> > > run on their exhaust systems; i.e., expansion pipes, flex pipe,
etc.
> > >
> > > David Brady
> > > '02 LXi, NC
> > >
> > > Kurt Horvath wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David, Would you like to take that brand new muffler off my
> > hands???
> > > >
> > > > According to DD straight pipe & ECU will not have any issues
in
> > the
> > > > 95 vintage S 60.
> > > >
> > > > OEM built that pipe for BB ACAP - As Cheep As Possible -
> > > >
> > > > The original routing of the pipe leaves the turbo, source of
the
> > > > first failure, cracked the 1st 90 degree turn a short
straight run
> > > > 2nd. 90 degree turn, then into a double ball connector that
also
> > > > telescopes in and out. You can check out that piece of S---,
sorry
> > > > engineering wonder here.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-
> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->
> > 89.pdf
> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-

> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->
> > 89.pdf>
> > > >
> > > > Page 76 Double Ball Joint with Slip Joint Feature Allowing
Lateral
> > > > Movement length 16 to 18 inches mine measures 14 .55 inches at
> > > > present. This marvel allows for 10 degrees of angularity 360
> > degree
> > > > rotation 2" of offset 2" axial movement,. Hell the u joints
can't
> > > > move around that much. Besides it was hard clamped to the
mount
> > from
> > > > the engine in front of this connection not to mention rusted
to
> > the
> > > > point that it took an pneumatic impact chisel to get it
apart.. So
> > > > what's the point. You need flex in between the turbo and the
first
> > > > mount.
> > > >
> > > > The Flex Connector with liner I choose is here at
> > > >
> > > > http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>
> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>
> > > >
> >
cPath=1022_1035_1064_1114&products_id=1008&osCsid=999d7ef5fdd15864bae3
> > > > 3db41abf5ef9
> > > >
> > > > The 2 90 degree turns were fabricated in that manner because
it's
> > not
> > > > easy to bend large diameter pipe in a single 180 degree bend,
thus
> > > > they weld 2 90's together, which is the industry standard for
> > > > manufacturing a 180 degree turn in large pipe exhausts. Well
this
> > > > ain't the factory and we're not constrained by what is easy. I
> > have
> > > > acquired a 14ga 180 degree U-Tube that has the same external
> > > > dimensions as the original pipe. I'm not an engineer but I
> > reasonably
> > > > certain that with the remaining 90 degree bend and a 45 degree
> > bend
> > > > there will be sufficient back pressure.
> > > >
> > > > There will also be a flexible pipe hanger mount behind the
Flex
> > > > connector mounted on the ceiling of the engine compartment
that
> > will
> > > > support the middle section of pipe and will allow for any
movement
> > > > and or torque that may be transferred to the pipe by the
motor.
> > The
> > > > original clamps for the muffler have to go as they are 6" but
the
> > > > rubber isolated mounting bars will remain and that's all that
was
> > > > there to begin with. So where's the rub? Bub!
> > > >
> > > > Not to take anything away from the engineers that designed the
> > Bird,
> > > > But there are some glaring deficiencies. 7 way trailer plug,
Air
> > > > Purge System, Watts valve, Accelerator and Brake peddles,
Front
> > Left
> > > > Shock Mount, Relay for Jake Brake, W/D Vent for Slendide 2000,
> > > > Installation of Refrigerator with inadequate convection, The
seat
> > > > belts mounted to floor instead of the seat, That reminds me I
> > still
> > > > have to fix that one. Nothing like hitting a road transition
just
> > to
> > > > have the air ride seat bounce and the seat belts automatically
> > adjust
> > > > for the slack then the air ride seat rebounds and the belts
try to
> > > > cut you in half at the waist. That's just the 95 PT 42. I'm
not
> > > > bitchin! I'm fixin
> > > >
> > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > 95 PT 42
> > > > 10AC
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > , David Brady

> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Greg. I'm gonna keep mine stock. There's a
bunch
> > > > > of vibration and movement back there. I figure BB's been
> > building
> > > > > buses a whole lot longer than I have. Initially I'd scratch
my
> > > > > head when looking at the frame and support pieces, but when
> > > > > you consider that something as big as a bus must twist and
flex,
> > > > > this flexibility needs to be designed in. Make one piece
> > stronger
> > > > > and you've created a stress raiser someplace else.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a friend who transplanted a honda v-tech motor into a
> > > > > lotus elise. Everything worked but the alternator mount. The
> > mount
> > > > > insists on cracking. There can be some weird harmonics and
> > > > > resonant frequencies going on that are difficult to grasp
and
> > > > > only trial and error and a 50 year track record of building
> > buses
> > > > > can solve (unless you can model it and run high powered
> > > > > computer finite element analysis on it). He's still fighting
> > that
> > > > > mount...
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay, I'm off my soap box.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brady
> > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > >
> > > > > Gregory OConnor wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt, try and figure why there were 4 bends. it may be
that
> > it was
> > > > > > engineered to alow for swing room between the 'hung
exhaust'
> > and
> > > > > > the 'torque reaction of the ruber mounted detroit'. look
at
> > the
> > > > roll
> > > > > > of the torque and see that there is a place for the
movement
> > to
> > > > twist
> > > > > > a union. I kinda think this movement was the problem with
the
> > > > > > resulting crack. crack=result ;movement=cause ;facilitate
> > movement
> > > > > > =repair. may be that BB enginered it correct but someone
> > > > > > overtightened a band to cure an exhaust leak??????? you
also
> > got
> > > > to
> > > > > > keep the stack from cantilivering off of the maniford with
> > your
> > > > new
> > > > > > design. Scavenging is one variable in fuel efficiency.
even
> > > > straight
> > > > > > pipes some time will result in lower fuel economy because
the
> > > > intake
> > > > > > variable get screwd. backpressure is mathed into the
computer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
> > Date:
> > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > >
> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:
> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[ronmarabito2002]

I went to 5" muffler on my 8V92 last year. Have not noticed any
change in performance. My logic is the fact that 5" is the outlet
from the turbo. Besides that, 5" is the common exhaust on most of the
over the road rigs today. There are exceptions, but I don't see any
advantage to 6" with the turbo outlet restricted to 5"

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady wrote:
>
> The LXi, like your WB, uses a 6 inch muffler. Five inch will
> certainly suck some ponies away.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Kurt Horvath wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yea I've heard that but the one with the liner has fixed the high
> > pressure leaks according to the Mfg. Let's hope. Prevost has from
> > what I recall pipes bent in one piece, they are held together with
> > those nifty band clamps that seat and conform to the pipe exterior,
> > If the V-Bands and Flanges don't work out I'll go to those pipe
> > clamps. The Flanges are also available with three different types of
> > gaskets, o-ring, flat, and, and, and I can't remember, oh yea the
> > type I bought, male-female flanges, perfect alignment, leak free,
> > again according to Vibrant Mfg. There is also a Stainless Steel
> > Muffler available that may work well on your coach, but it's inlet
> > outlet is 5" not the 6" like on your coach. well I assume yours is
> > 6"??? Also it is 10" in diameter which would help with crowed exhaust
> > tunnel.
> >
> > Kurt Horvath
> > 95 Pt 42
> > 10AC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > , David Brady
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Kurt,
> > >
> > > No thanks, I already have a stock muffler. Thanks for the links,
> > > there's some pretty nifty items there. Be careful with those fancy
> > > braided stainless steel pieces. They look sharp, but they've always
> > > leaked on my turbocharged subaru wrx. Kurt, you've been around
> > > a few over-the-road coaches, Prevost' and what not, what do they
> > > run on their exhaust systems; i.e., expansion pipes, flex pipe, etc.
> > >
> > > David Brady
> > > '02 LXi, NC
> > >
> > > Kurt Horvath wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David, Would you like to take that brand new muffler off my
> > hands???
> > > >
> > > > According to DD straight pipe & ECU will not have any issues in
> > the
> > > > 95 vintage S 60.
> > > >
> > > > OEM built that pipe for BB ACAP - As Cheep As Possible -
> > > >
> > > > The original routing of the pipe leaves the turbo, source of the
> > > > first failure, cracked the 1st 90 degree turn a short straight run
> > > > 2nd. 90 degree turn, then into a double ball connector that also
> > > > telescopes in and out. You can check out that piece of S---, sorry
> > > > engineering wonder here.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-
> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->
> > 89.pdf
> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-
> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->
> > 89.pdf>
> > > >
> > > > Page 76 Double Ball Joint with Slip Joint Feature Allowing Lateral
> > > > Movement length 16 to 18 inches mine measures 14 .55 inches at
> > > > present. This marvel allows for 10 degrees of angularity 360
> > degree
> > > > rotation 2" of offset 2" axial movement,. Hell the u joints can't
> > > > move around that much. Besides it was hard clamped to the mount
> > from
> > > > the engine in front of this connection not to mention rusted to
> > the
> > > > point that it took an pneumatic impact chisel to get it apart.. So
> > > > what's the point. You need flex in between the turbo and the first
> > > > mount.
> > > >
> > > > The Flex Connector with liner I choose is here at
> > > >
> > > > http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>
> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>
> > > >
> > cPath=1022_1035_1064_1114&products_id=1008&osCsid=999d7ef5fdd15864bae3
> > > > 3db41abf5ef9
> > > >
> > > > The 2 90 degree turns were fabricated in that manner because it's
> > not
> > > > easy to bend large diameter pipe in a single 180 degree bend, thus
> > > > they weld 2 90's together, which is the industry standard for
> > > > manufacturing a 180 degree turn in large pipe exhausts. Well this
> > > > ain't the factory and we're not constrained by what is easy. I
> > have
> > > > acquired a 14ga 180 degree U-Tube that has the same external
> > > > dimensions as the original pipe. I'm not an engineer but I
> > reasonably
> > > > certain that with the remaining 90 degree bend and a 45 degree
> > bend
> > > > there will be sufficient back pressure.
> > > >
> > > > There will also be a flexible pipe hanger mount behind the Flex
> > > > connector mounted on the ceiling of the engine compartment that
> > will
> > > > support the middle section of pipe and will allow for any movement
> > > > and or torque that may be transferred to the pipe by the motor.
> > The
> > > > original clamps for the muffler have to go as they are 6" but the
> > > > rubber isolated mounting bars will remain and that's all that was
> > > > there to begin with. So where's the rub? Bub!
> > > >
> > > > Not to take anything away from the engineers that designed the
> > Bird,
> > > > But there are some glaring deficiencies. 7 way trailer plug, Air
> > > > Purge System, Watts valve, Accelerator and Brake peddles, Front
> > Left
> > > > Shock Mount, Relay for Jake Brake, W/D Vent for Slendide 2000,
> > > > Installation of Refrigerator with inadequate convection, The seat
> > > > belts mounted to floor instead of the seat, That reminds me I
> > still
> > > > have to fix that one. Nothing like hitting a road transition just
> > to
> > > > have the air ride seat bounce and the seat belts automatically
> > adjust
> > > > for the slack then the air ride seat rebounds and the belts try to
> > > > cut you in half at the waist. That's just the 95 PT 42. I'm not
> > > > bitchin! I'm fixin
> > > >
> > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > 95 PT 42
> > > > 10AC
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > , David Brady
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Greg. I'm gonna keep mine stock. There's a bunch
> > > > > of vibration and movement back there. I figure BB's been
> > building
> > > > > buses a whole lot longer than I have. Initially I'd scratch my
> > > > > head when looking at the frame and support pieces, but when
> > > > > you consider that something as big as a bus must twist and flex,
> > > > > this flexibility needs to be designed in. Make one piece
> > stronger
> > > > > and you've created a stress raiser someplace else.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a friend who transplanted a honda v-tech motor into a
> > > > > lotus elise. Everything worked but the alternator mount. The
> > mount
> > > > > insists on cracking. There can be some weird harmonics and
> > > > > resonant frequencies going on that are difficult to grasp and
> > > > > only trial and error and a 50 year track record of building
> > buses
> > > > > can solve (unless you can model it and run high powered
> > > > > computer finite element analysis on it). He's still fighting
> > that
> > > > > mount...
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay, I'm off my soap box.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brady
> > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > >
> > > > > Gregory OConnor wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt, try and figure why there were 4 bends. it may be that
> > it was
> > > > > > engineered to alow for swing room between the 'hung exhaust'
> > and
> > > > > > the 'torque reaction of the ruber mounted detroit'. look at
> > the
> > > > roll
> > > > > > of the torque and see that there is a place for the movement
> > to
> > > > twist
> > > > > > a union. I kinda think this movement was the problem with the
> > > > > > resulting crack. crack=result ;movement=cause ;facilitate
> > movement
> > > > > > =repair. may be that BB enginered it correct but someone
> > > > > > overtightened a band to cure an exhaust leak??????? you also
> > got
> > > > to
> > > > > > keep the stack from cantilivering off of the maniford with
> > your
> > > > new
> > > > > > design. Scavenging is one variable in fuel efficiency. even
> > > > straight
> > > > > > pipes some time will result in lower fuel economy because the
> > > > intake
> > > > > > variable get screwd. backpressure is mathed into the computer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
> > Date:
> > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > >
> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[David Brady]

That's correct.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Kurt Horvath wrote:

David,



I think your muffler is 6" inlet & out your pipes from the turbo to


the muffler are 5"



Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..."

wrote:

>

> The LXi, like your WB, uses a 6 inch muffler. Five inch will

> certainly suck some ponies away.

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Yea I've heard that but the one with the liner has fixed the
high

> > pressure leaks according to the Mfg. Let's hope. Prevost has
from

> > what I recall pipes bent in one piece, they are held together
with

> > those nifty band clamps that seat and conform to the pipe

exterior,

> > If the V-Bands and Flanges don't work out I'll go to those
pipe

> > clamps. The Flanges are also available with three different
types

of

> > gaskets, o-ring, flat, and, and, and I can't remember, oh yea
the

> > type I bought, male-female flanges, perfect alignment, leak
free,

> > again according to Vibrant Mfg. There is also a Stainless
Steel

> > Muffler available that may work well on your coach, but it's
inlet

> > outlet is 5" not the 6" like on your coach. well I assume
yours is

> > 6"??? Also it is 10" in diameter which would help with crowed


exhaust

> > tunnel.

> >

> > Kurt Horvath

> > 95 Pt 42

> > 10AC

> >

> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Kurt,

> > >

> > > No thanks, I already have a stock muffler. Thanks for
the links,

> > > there's some pretty nifty items there. Be careful with
those

fancy

> > > braided stainless steel pieces. They look sharp, but
they've

always

> > > leaked on my turbocharged subaru wrx. Kurt, you've been
around

> > > a few over-the-road coaches, Prevost' and what not, what
do they

> > > run on their exhaust systems; i.e., expansion pipes,
flex pipe,

etc.

> > >

> > > David Brady

> > > '02 LXi, NC

> > >

> > > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> > > >

> > > > David, Would you like to take that brand new
muffler off my

> > hands???

> > > >

> > > > According to DD straight pipe & ECU will not
have any issues

in

> > the

> > > > 95 vintage S 60.

> > > >

> > > > OEM built that pipe for BB ACAP - As Cheep As
Possible -

> > > >

> > > > The original routing of the pipe leaves the turbo,
source of

the

> > > > first failure, cracked the 1st 90 degree turn a
short

straight run

> > > > 2nd. 90 degree turn, then into a double ball
connector that

also

> > > > telescopes in and out. You can check out that piece
of S---,

sorry

> > > > engineering wonder here.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-


> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->

> > 89.pdf

> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-



> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->

> > 89.pdf>

> > > >

> > > > Page 76 Double Ball Joint with Slip Joint Feature
Allowing

Lateral

> > > > Movement length 16 to 18 inches mine measures 14
.55 inches at

> > > > present. This marvel allows for 10 degrees of
angularity 360

> > degree

> > > > rotation 2" of offset 2" axial movement,. Hell the
u joints

can't

> > > > move around that much. Besides it was hard clamped
to the

mount

> > from

> > > > the engine in front of this connection not to
mention rusted

to

> > the

> > > > point that it took an pneumatic impact chisel to
get it

apart.. So

> > > > what's the point. You need flex in between the
turbo and the

first

> > > > mount.

> > > >

> > > > The Flex Connector with liner I choose is here at

> > > >

> > > > http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>

> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>

> > > >

> >

cPath=1022_1035_1064_1114&products_id=1008&osCsid=999d7ef5fdd15864bae3

> > > > 3db41abf5ef9

> > > >

> > > > The 2 90 degree turns were fabricated in that
manner because

it's

> > not

> > > > easy to bend large diameter pipe in a single 180
degree bend,

thus

> > > > they weld 2 90's together, which is the industry
standard for

> > > > manufacturing a 180 degree turn in large pipe
exhausts. Well

this

> > > > ain't the factory and we're not constrained by what
is easy. I

> > have

> > > > acquired a 14ga 180 degree U-Tube that has the same
external

> > > > dimensions as the original pipe. I'm not an
engineer but I

> > reasonably

> > > > certain that with the remaining 90 degree bend and
a 45 degree

> > bend

> > > > there will be sufficient back pressure.

> > > >

> > > > There will also be a flexible pipe hanger mount
behind the

Flex

> > > > connector mounted on the ceiling of the engine
compartment

that

> > will

> > > > support the middle section of pipe and will allow
for any

movement

> > > > and or torque that may be transferred to the pipe
by the

motor.

> > The

> > > > original clamps for the muffler have to go as they
are 6" but

the

> > > > rubber isolated mounting bars will remain and
that's all that

was

> > > > there to begin with. So where's the rub? Bub!

> > > >

> > > > Not to take anything away from the engineers that
designed the

> > Bird,

> > > > But there are some glaring deficiencies. 7 way
trailer plug,

Air

> > > > Purge System, Watts valve, Accelerator and Brake
peddles,

Front

> > Left

> > > > Shock Mount, Relay for Jake Brake, W/D Vent for
Slendide 2000,

> > > > Installation of Refrigerator with inadequate
convection, The

seat

> > > > belts mounted to floor instead of the seat, That
reminds me I

> > still

> > > > have to fix that one. Nothing like hitting a road
transition

just

> > to

> > > > have the air ride seat bounce and the seat belts
automatically

> > adjust

> > > > for the slack then the air ride seat rebounds and
the belts

try to

> > > > cut you in half at the waist. That's just the 95 PT
42. I'm

not

> > > > bitchin! I'm fixin

> > > >

> > > > Kurt Horvath

> > > > 95 PT 42

> > > > 10AC

> > > >

> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady



> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Kurt,

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with Greg. I'm gonna keep mine stock.
There's a

bunch

> > > > > of vibration and movement back there. I figure
BB's been

> > building

> > > > > buses a whole lot longer than I have.
Initially I'd scratch

my

> > > > > head when looking at the frame and support
pieces, but when

> > > > > you consider that something as big as a bus
must twist and

flex,

> > > > > this flexibility needs to be designed in. Make
one piece

> > stronger

> > > > > and you've created a stress raiser someplace
else.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a friend who transplanted a honda
v-tech motor into a

> > > > > lotus elise. Everything worked but the
alternator mount. The

> > mount

> > > > > insists on cracking. There can be some weird
harmonics and

> > > > > resonant frequencies going on that are
difficult to grasp

and

> > > > > only trial and error and a 50 year track
record of building

> > buses

> > > > > can solve (unless you can model it and run
high powered

> > > > > computer finite element analysis on it). He's
still fighting

> > that

> > > > > mount...

> > > > >

> > > > > Okay, I'm off my soap box.

> > > > >

> > > > > David Brady

> > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> > > > >

> > > > > Gregory OConnor wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kurt, try and figure why there were 4
bends. it may be

that

> > it was

> > > > > > engineered to alow for swing room between
the 'hung

exhaust'

> > and

> > > > > > the 'torque reaction of the ruber mounted
detroit'. look

at

> > the

> > > > roll

> > > > > > of the torque and see that there is a
place for the

movement

> > to

> > > > twist

> > > > > > a union. I kinda think this movement was
the problem with

the

> > > > > > resulting crack. crack=result
;movement=cause ;facilitate

> > movement

> > > > > > =repair. may be that BB enginered it
correct but someone

> > > > > > overtightened a band to cure an exhaust
leak??????? you

also

> > got

> > > > to

> > > > > > keep the stack from cantilivering off of
the maniford with

> > your

> > > > new

> > > > > > design. Scavenging is one variable in
fuel efficiency.

even

> > > > straight

> > > > > > pipes some time will result in lower fuel
economy because

the

> > > > intake

> > > > > > variable get screwd. backpressure is
mathed into the

computer.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > > ------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database:
270.8.0/1715 - Release

> > Date:

> > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > ------

> > > >

> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 -
Release

Date:

> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[David Brady]

In other words, it was slow with the 6" and its still slow with

the 5". It would be interesting if you could do a benchmark.

Climb a six percent grade before and after, or put it on a dyno.

I'll have to dig out my fluid flow equations to let you know what

the real restrictions are. Coming out of the turbo with a narrow

pipe should increase velocities due to the Bernoulli principle, but

shortly thereafter you really want to dump it to a wide low back-

pressure exhaust. Without benchmarks it's hard to tell what power

loss you've sustained.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



ronmarabito2002 wrote:

I went to 5" muffler on my 8V92 last year. Have not noticed any

change in performance. My logic is the fact that 5" is the outlet

from the turbo. Besides that, 5" is the common exhaust on most of the

over the road rigs today. There are exceptions, but I don't see any

advantage to 6" with the turbo outlet restricted to 5"



R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..." wrote:

>

> The LXi, like your WB, uses a 6 inch muffler. Five inch will

> certainly suck some ponies away.

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Yea I've heard that but the one with the liner has fixed the
high

> > pressure leaks according to the Mfg. Let's hope. Prevost has
from

> > what I recall pipes bent in one piece, they are held together
with

> > those nifty band clamps that seat and conform to the pipe
exterior,

> > If the V-Bands and Flanges don't work out I'll go to those
pipe

> > clamps. The Flanges are also available with three different
types of

> > gaskets, o-ring, flat, and, and, and I can't remember, oh yea
the

> > type I bought, male-female flanges, perfect alignment, leak
free,

> > again according to Vibrant Mfg. There is also a Stainless
Steel

> > Muffler available that may work well on your coach, but it's
inlet

> > outlet is 5" not the 6" like on your coach. well I assume
yours is

> > 6"??? Also it is 10" in diameter which would help with crowed
exhaust

> > tunnel.

> >

> > Kurt Horvath

> > 95 Pt 42

> > 10AC

> >

> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Kurt,

> > >

> > > No thanks, I already have a stock muffler. Thanks for
the links,

> > > there's some pretty nifty items there. Be careful with
those fancy

> > > braided stainless steel pieces. They look sharp, but
they've always

> > > leaked on my turbocharged subaru wrx. Kurt, you've been
around

> > > a few over-the-road coaches, Prevost' and what not, what
do they

> > > run on their exhaust systems; i.e., expansion pipes,
flex pipe, etc.

> > >

> > > David Brady

> > > '02 LXi, NC

> > >

> > > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> > > >

> > > > David, Would you like to take that brand new
muffler off my

> > hands???

> > > >

> > > > According to DD straight pipe & ECU will not
have any issues in

> > the

> > > > 95 vintage S 60.

> > > >

> > > > OEM built that pipe for BB ACAP - As Cheep As
Possible -

> > > >

> > > > The original routing of the pipe leaves the turbo,
source of the

> > > > first failure, cracked the 1st 90 degree turn a
short straight run

> > > > 2nd. 90 degree turn, then into a double ball
connector that also

> > > > telescopes in and out. You can check out that piece
of S---, sorry

> > > > engineering wonder here.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-


> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->

> > 89.pdf

> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-


> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->

> > 89.pdf>

> > > >

> > > > Page 76 Double Ball Joint with Slip Joint Feature
Allowing Lateral

> > > > Movement length 16 to 18 inches mine measures 14
.55 inches at

> > > > present. This marvel allows for 10 degrees of
angularity 360

> > degree

> > > > rotation 2" of offset 2" axial movement,. Hell the
u joints can't

> > > > move around that much. Besides it was hard clamped
to the mount

> > from

> > > > the engine in front of this connection not to
mention rusted to

> > the

> > > > point that it took an pneumatic impact chisel to
get it apart.. So

> > > > what's the point. You need flex in between the
turbo and the first

> > > > mount.

> > > >

> > > > The Flex Connector with liner I choose is here at

> > > >

> > > > http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>

> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>

> > > >

> > cPath=1022_1035_1064_1114&products_id=1008&osCsid=999d7ef5fdd15864bae3

> > > > 3db41abf5ef9

> > > >

> > > > The 2 90 degree turns were fabricated in that
manner because it's

> > not

> > > > easy to bend large diameter pipe in a single 180
degree bend, thus

> > > > they weld 2 90's together, which is the industry
standard for

> > > > manufacturing a 180 degree turn in large pipe
exhausts. Well this

> > > > ain't the factory and we're not constrained by what
is easy. I

> > have

> > > > acquired a 14ga 180 degree U-Tube that has the same
external

> > > > dimensions as the original pipe. I'm not an
engineer but I

> > reasonably

> > > > certain that with the remaining 90 degree bend and
a 45 degree

> > bend

> > > > there will be sufficient back pressure.

> > > >

> > > > There will also be a flexible pipe hanger mount
behind the Flex

> > > > connector mounted on the ceiling of the engine
compartment that

> > will

> > > > support the middle section of pipe and will allow
for any movement

> > > > and or torque that may be transferred to the pipe
by the motor.

> > The

> > > > original clamps for the muffler have to go as they
are 6" but the

> > > > rubber isolated mounting bars will remain and
that's all that was

> > > > there to begin with. So where's the rub? Bub!

> > > >

> > > > Not to take anything away from the engineers that
designed the

> > Bird,

> > > > But there are some glaring deficiencies. 7 way
trailer plug, Air

> > > > Purge System, Watts valve, Accelerator and Brake
peddles, Front

> > Left

> > > > Shock Mount, Relay for Jake Brake, W/D Vent for
Slendide 2000,

> > > > Installation of Refrigerator with inadequate
convection, The seat

> > > > belts mounted to floor instead of the seat, That
reminds me I

> > still

> > > > have to fix that one. Nothing like hitting a road
transition just

> > to

> > > > have the air ride seat bounce and the seat belts
automatically

> > adjust

> > > > for the slack then the air ride seat rebounds and
the belts try to

> > > > cut you in half at the waist. That's just the 95 PT
42. I'm not

> > > > bitchin! I'm fixin

> > > >

> > > > Kurt Horvath

> > > > 95 PT 42

> > > > 10AC

> > > >

> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Kurt,

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with Greg. I'm gonna keep mine stock.
There's a bunch

> > > > > of vibration and movement back there. I figure
BB's been

> > building

> > > > > buses a whole lot longer than I have.
Initially I'd scratch my

> > > > > head when looking at the frame and support
pieces, but when

> > > > > you consider that something as big as a bus
must twist and flex,

> > > > > this flexibility needs to be designed in. Make
one piece

> > stronger

> > > > > and you've created a stress raiser someplace
else.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a friend who transplanted a honda
v-tech motor into a

> > > > > lotus elise. Everything worked but the
alternator mount. The

> > mount

> > > > > insists on cracking. There can be some weird
harmonics and

> > > > > resonant frequencies going on that are
difficult to grasp and

> > > > > only trial and error and a 50 year track
record of building

> > buses

> > > > > can solve (unless you can model it and run
high powered

> > > > > computer finite element analysis on it). He's
still fighting

> > that

> > > > > mount...

> > > > >

> > > > > Okay, I'm off my soap box.

> > > > >

> > > > > David Brady

> > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> > > > >

> > > > > Gregory OConnor wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kurt, try and figure why there were 4
bends. it may be that

> > it was

> > > > > > engineered to alow for swing room between
the 'hung exhaust'

> > and

> > > > > > the 'torque reaction of the ruber mounted
detroit'. look at

> > the

> > > > roll

> > > > > > of the torque and see that there is a
place for the movement

> > to

> > > > twist

> > > > > > a union. I kinda think this movement was
the problem with the

> > > > > > resulting crack. crack=result
;movement=cause ;facilitate

> > movement

> > > > > > =repair. may be that BB enginered it
correct but someone

> > > > > > overtightened a band to cure an exhaust
leak??????? you also

> > got

> > > > to

> > > > > > keep the stack from cantilivering off of
the maniford with

> > your

> > > > new

> > > > > > design. Scavenging is one variable in
fuel efficiency. even

> > > > straight

> > > > > > pipes some time will result in lower fuel
economy because the

> > > > intake

> > > > > > variable get screwd. backpressure is
mathed into the computer.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > > ------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database:
270.8.0/1715 - Release

> > Date:

> > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > ------

> > > >

> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 -
Release Date:

> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Kurt Horvath]

David,

A few days ago you were all for a straight pipe.

Now we have delved into the effects and merits of the, "Bernoulli
effect" it presumes that the density of the flowing gas is constant,
which will not necessarily be true in this application.

If this were a consideration and a factor in design and function
wouldn't this be a standard application on all exhausts, considering
today's drive for better performance Vs energy expended Vs
particulate
matter expelled Vs whatever else the EPA thinks we should be
ejecting from our exhaust pipes?

One factor you may have not considered are the exhaust blankets I
mentioned. They will retain the heat within the pipes thus increasing
the velocity of the exhaust creating an accelerated flow of gasses
through the tubes.

If I may present another observation, 5" exhaust systems are the
standard on all production class 8 trucks.

Furthermore and for the heck of it I don't believe that the trucker
that has 8" stacks on his rig has considered the, "Bernoulli effect"
in his choice at the Chrome Shop. Although it mat have an effect on
performance further than just looking cool. They do look good, no
doubt.

For the last four weeks I have queried Detroit Diesel, Custom Exhaust
Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s, Marine Exhaust Engineers &
Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that would lend an ear, and
no one has expressed any apprehension or regard in the respect to a
5" exhaust system. In fact all parties expressed their surprise in
respect as to why the system would change size at the muffler.

Several owners have modified their systems to 5" from end to end, and
have seen no change in performance. Positive or negative, In general
it was just a matter of convenience in acquiring parts, I won't get
into that. That has recently been beaten to death at the expense of
all parties involved

If there is someone who would like to further this debate with
Imperical evidence of the merits of, or placing a venturi somewhere
in this exhaust system I have pasted a site below where you can
formulate your calculations. I would love to see some evidence of a
positive effect, in which case I would have no problem in adding a
venturi crimp in the exhaust system.

Bernoulli Calculation

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hba...r.html#beq

The calculation of the "real world" pressure in a constriction of a
tube is difficult to do because of viscous losses, turbulence, and
the assumptions which must be made about the velocity profile (which
affect the calculated kinetic energy). The model calculation here
assumes laminar flow (no turbulence), assumes that the distance from
the larger diameter to the smaller is short enough that viscous
losses can be neglected, and assumes that the velocity profile
follows that of theoretical laminar flow. Specifically, this involves
assuming that the effective flow velocity is one half of the maximum
velocity, and that the average kinetic energy density is given by one
third of the maximum kinetic energy density.

Now if you can swallow all those assumptions, you can model* the flow
in a tube where the volume flow rate is = cm3/s and the fluid density
is ñ = gm/cm3. For an inlet tube area A1= cm2 (radius r1 =cm), the
geometry of flow leads to an effective fluid velocity of v1 =cm/s.
Since the Bernoulli equation includes the fluid potential energy as
well, the height of the inlet tube is specified as h1 = cm. If the
area of the tube is constricted to A2=cm2 (radius r1 = cm), then
without any further assumptions the effective fluid velocity in the
constriction must be v2 = cm/s. The height of the constricted tube
is specified as h2 = cm.

The kinetic energy densities at the two locations in the tube can now
be calculated, and the Bernoulli equation applied to constrain the
process to conserve energy, thus giving a value for the pressure in
the constriction. First, specify a pressure in the inlet tube:
Inlet pressure = P1 = kPa = lb/in2 = mmHg = atmos.
The energy densities can now be calculated. The energy unit for the
CGS units used is the erg.

Inlet tube energy densities
Kinetic energy density = erg/cm3
Potential energy density = erg/cm3
Pressure energy density = erg/cm3
Constricted tube energy densities
Kinetic energy density = erg/cm3
Potential energy density = erg/cm3
Pressure energy density = erg/cm3


The pressure energy density in the constricted tube can now be
finally converted into more conventional pressure units to see the
effect of the constricted flow on the fluid pressure:

Calculated pressure in constriction =
P2= kPa = lb/in2 = mmHg = atmos.

This calculation can give some perspective on the energy involved in
fluid flow, but it's accuracy is always suspect because of the
assumption of laminar flow. For typical inlet conditions, the energy
density associated with the pressure will be dominant on the input
side; after all, we live at the bottom of an atmospheric sea which
contributes a large amount of pressure energy. If a drastic enough
reduction in radius is used to yield a pressure in the constriction
which is less than atmospheric pressure, there is almost certainly
some turbulence involved in the flow into that constriction.
Nevertheless, the calculation can show why we can get a significant
amount of suction (pressure less than atmospheric) with
an "aspirator" on a high pressure faucet. These devices consist of a
metal tube of reducing radius with a side tube into the region of
constricted radius for suction.

*Note: Some default values will be entered for some of the values as
you start exploring the calculation. All of them can be changed as a
part of your calculation.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC



> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > , David Brady

> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Kurt,
> > > > >
> > > > > No thanks, I already have a stock muffler. Thanks for the
links,
> > > > > there's some pretty nifty items there. Be careful with
those fancy
> > > > > braided stainless steel pieces. They look sharp, but
they've always
> > > > > leaked on my turbocharged subaru wrx. Kurt, you've been
around
> > > > > a few over-the-road coaches, Prevost' and what not, what do
they
> > > > > run on their exhaust systems; i.e., expansion pipes, flex
pipe, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brady
> > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt Horvath wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David, Would you like to take that brand new muffler off
my
> > > > hands???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > According to DD straight pipe & ECU will not have any
issues in
> > > > the
> > > > > > 95 vintage S 60.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OEM built that pipe for BB ACAP - As Cheep As Possible -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The original routing of the pipe leaves the turbo, source
of the
> > > > > > first failure, cracked the 1st 90 degree turn a short
straight run
> > > > > > 2nd. 90 degree turn, then into a double ball connector
that also
> > > > > > telescopes in and out. You can check out that piece of S--
-, sorry
> > > > > > engineering wonder here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-
> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->
> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-

> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->>
> > > > 89.pdf
> > > > > >
<http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-
> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->
> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70-

> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/download...g_03_pg70->>
> > > > 89.pdf>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Page 76 Double Ball Joint with Slip Joint Feature
Allowing Lateral
> > > > > > Movement length 16 to 18 inches mine measures 14 .55
inches at
> > > > > > present. This marvel allows for 10 degrees of angularity
360
> > > > degree
> > > > > > rotation 2" of offset 2" axial movement,. Hell the u
joints can't
> > > > > > move around that much. Besides it was hard clamped to the
mount
> > > > from
> > > > > > the engine in front of this connection not to mention
rusted to
> > > > the
> > > > > > point that it took an pneumatic impact chisel to get it
apart.. So
> > > > > > what's the point. You need flex in between the turbo and
the first
> > > > > > mount.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Flex Connector with liner I choose is here at
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>
> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>
> > > > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>
> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>>
> > > > > >
> > > >
cPath=1022_1035_1064_1114&products_id=1008&osCsid=999d7ef5fdd15864bae3
> > > > > > 3db41abf5ef9
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The 2 90 degree turns were fabricated in that manner
because it's
> > > > not
> > > > > > easy to bend large diameter pipe in a single 180 degree
bend, thus
> > > > > > they weld 2 90's together, which is the industry standard
for
> > > > > > manufacturing a 180 degree turn in large pipe exhausts.
Well this
> > > > > > ain't the factory and we're not constrained by what is
easy. I
> > > > have
> > > > > > acquired a 14ga 180 degree U-Tube that has the same
external
> > > > > > dimensions as the original pipe. I'm not an engineer but I
> > > > reasonably
> > > > > > certain that with the remaining 90 degree bend and a 45
degree
> > > > bend
> > > > > > there will be sufficient back pressure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There will also be a flexible pipe hanger mount behind
the Flex
> > > > > > connector mounted on the ceiling of the engine
compartment that
> > > > will
> > > > > > support the middle section of pipe and will allow for any
movement
> > > > > > and or torque that may be transferred to the pipe by the
motor.
> > > > The
> > > > > > original clamps for the muffler have to go as they are 6"
but the
> > > > > > rubber isolated mounting bars will remain and that's all
that was
> > > > > > there to begin with. So where's the rub? Bub!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not to take anything away from the engineers that
designed the
> > > > Bird,
> > > > > > But there are some glaring deficiencies. 7 way trailer
plug, Air
> > > > > > Purge System, Watts valve, Accelerator and Brake peddles,
Front
> > > > Left
> > > > > > Shock Mount, Relay for Jake Brake, W/D Vent for Slendide
2000,
> > > > > > Installation of Refrigerator with inadequate convection,
The seat
> > > > > > belts mounted to floor instead of the seat, That reminds
me I
> > > > still
> > > > > > have to fix that one. Nothing like hitting a road
transition just
> > > > to
> > > > > > have the air ride seat bounce and the seat belts
automatically
> > > > adjust
> > > > > > for the slack then the air ride seat rebounds and the
belts try to
> > > > > > cut you in half at the waist. That's just the 95 PT 42.
I'm not
> > > > > > bitchin! I'm fixin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > 95 PT 42
> > > > > > 10AC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > , David Brady

> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with Greg. I'm gonna keep mine stock. There's a
bunch
> > > > > > > of vibration and movement back there. I figure BB's been
> > > > building
> > > > > > > buses a whole lot longer than I have. Initially I'd
scratch my
> > > > > > > head when looking at the frame and support pieces, but
when
> > > > > > > you consider that something as big as a bus must twist
and flex,
> > > > > > > this flexibility needs to be designed in. Make one piece
> > > > stronger
> > > > > > > and you've created a stress raiser someplace else.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a friend who transplanted a honda v-tech motor
into a
> > > > > > > lotus elise. Everything worked but the alternator
mount. The
> > > > mount
> > > > > > > insists on cracking. There can be some weird harmonics
and
> > > > > > > resonant frequencies going on that are difficult to
grasp and
> > > > > > > only trial and error and a 50 year track record of
building
> > > > buses
> > > > > > > can solve (unless you can model it and run high powered
> > > > > > > computer finite element analysis on it). He's still
fighting
> > > > that
> > > > > > > mount...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, I'm off my soap box.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David Brady
> > > > > > > '02 LXi, NC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gregory OConnor wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kurt, try and figure why there were 4 bends. it may
be that
> > > > it was
> > > > > > > > engineered to alow for swing room between the 'hung
exhaust'
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > the 'torque reaction of the ruber mounted detroit'.
look at
> > > > the
> > > > > > roll
> > > > > > > > of the torque and see that there is a place for the
movement
> > > > to
> > > > > > twist
> > > > > > > > a union. I kinda think this movement was the problem
with the
> > > > > > > > resulting crack.
crack=result ;movement=cause ;facilitate
> > > > movement
> > > > > > > > =repair. may be that BB enginered it correct but
someone
> > > > > > > > overtightened a band to cure an exhaust leak???????
you also
> > > > got
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > keep the stack from cantilivering off of the maniford
with
> > > > your
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > design. Scavenging is one variable in fuel
efficiency. even
> > > > > > straight
> > > > > > > > pipes some time will result in lower fuel economy
because the
> > > > > > intake
> > > > > > > > variable get screwd. backpressure is mathed into the
computer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------
----
> > > > > > ------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 -
Release
> > > > Date:
> > > > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:
> > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:
> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

Having recently replaced my muffler (at great expense) -- had I to do
it over again, I'd have switched over to a 5" system from turbo to
stack. As others have stated, it's 5" at the turbo outlet and the
standard in the heavy truck industry is 5".

The only performance difference I notice (between the old blown out
muffler and the new one) is that the exhaust-type Jake brake seems to
be slightly less effective.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Hohenwald, TN (Natchez Trace Parkway)



On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:
> <snip>
> For the last four weeks I have queried Detroit Diesel, Custom Exhaust
> Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s, Marine Exhaust Engineers &
> Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that would lend an ear, and
> no one has expressed any apprehension or regard in the respect to a
> 5" exhaust system. In fact all parties expressed their surprise in
> respect as to why the system would change size at the muffler.
>
> Several owners have modified their systems to 5" from end to end, and
> have seen no change in performance. Positive or negative, In general
> it was just a matter of convenience in acquiring parts, I won't get
> into that. That has recently been beaten to death at the expense of
> all parties involved
>

[David Brady]

Hi Kurt,



I am for hollow unbaffled straight pipes. The Bernoulli effect,

or "crimp" is built into the turbocharger. Take a look, every

one I've seen has the exhaust tapering to a smaller diameter

as it passes the turbine to increase velocities. I'm suggesting

that performance may be enhanced by providing a taper from

the outlet of the turbo exhaust thru the exhaust system. Our

taper is a 5" pipe at going into 6" pipe; that's a surface area of

19.6 sq inches expanding to 28.3 square inches. Basically a horn

hanging from the outlet of the exhaust turbo enhancing the flow

of gases from the turbo. I'm not surprised the vendors support your

desire for a 5" exhaust. The only way to really get at the bottom

of this is to try both and dyno both.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Kurt Horvath wrote:

David,



A few days ago you were all for a straight pipe.



Now we have delved into the effects and merits of the, "Bernoulli

effect" it presumes that the density of the flowing gas is constant,

which will not necessarily be true in this application.



If this were a consideration and a factor in design and function

wouldn't this be a standard application on all exhausts, considering

today's drive for better performance Vs energy expended Vs

particulate

matter expelled Vs whatever else the EPA thinks we should be

ejecting from our exhaust pipes?



One factor you may have not considered are the exhaust blankets I

mentioned. They will retain the heat within the pipes thus increasing

the velocity of the exhaust creating an accelerated flow of gasses

through the tubes.



If I may present another observation, 5" exhaust systems are the

standard on all production class 8 trucks.



Furthermore and for the heck of it I don't believe that the trucker

that has 8" stacks on his rig has considered the, "Bernoulli effect"

in his choice at the Chrome Shop. Although it mat have an effect on

performance further than just looking cool. They do look good, no

doubt.



For the last four weeks I have queried Detroit Diesel, Custom Exhaust

Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s, Marine Exhaust Engineers &


Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that would lend an ear, and

no one has expressed any apprehension or regard in the respect to a

5" exhaust system. In fact all parties expressed their surprise in

respect as to why the system would change size at the muffler.



Several owners have modified their systems to 5" from end to end, and

have seen no change in performance. Positive or negative, In general

it was just a matter of convenience in acquiring parts, I won't get

into that. That has recently been beaten to death at the expense of

all parties involved



If there is someone who would like to further this debate with

Imperical evidence of the merits of, or placing a venturi somewhere

in this exhaust system I have pasted a site below where you can

formulate your calculations. I would love to see some evidence of a

positive effect, in which case I would have no problem in adding a

venturi crimp in the exhaust system.



Bernoulli Calculation



http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/pber.html#beq



The calculation of the "real world" pressure in a constriction of a

tube is difficult to do because of viscous losses, turbulence, and

the assumptions which must be made about the velocity profile (which

affect the calculated kinetic energy). The model calculation here

assumes laminar flow (no turbulence), assumes that the distance from

the larger diameter to the smaller is short enough that viscous

losses can be neglected, and assumes that the velocity profile

follows that of theoretical laminar flow. Specifically, this involves

assuming that the effective flow velocity is one half of the maximum

velocity, and that the average kinetic energy density is given by one

third of the maximum kinetic energy density.



Now if you can swallow all those assumptions, you can model* the flow

in a tube where the volume flow rate is = cm3/s and the fluid density

is ñ = gm/cm3. For an inlet tube area A1= cm2 (radius r1 =cm), the

geometry of flow leads to an effective fluid velocity of v1 =cm/s.

Since the Bernoulli equation includes the fluid potential energy as

well, the height of the inlet tube is specified as h1 = cm. If the

area of the tube is constricted to A2=cm2 (radius r1 = cm), then

without any further assumptions the effective fluid velocity in the

constriction must be v2 = cm/s. The height of the constricted tube

is specified as h2 = cm.



The kinetic energy densities at the two locations in the tube can now

be calculated, and the Bernoulli equation applied to constrain the

process to conserve energy, thus giving a value for the pressure in

the constriction. First, specify a pressure in the inlet tube:

Inlet pressure = P1 = kPa = lb/in2 = mmHg = atmos.

The energy densities can now be calculated. The energy unit for the

CGS units used is the erg.



Inlet tube energy densities

Kinetic energy density = erg/cm3

Potential energy density = erg/cm3

Pressure energy density = erg/cm3

Constricted tube energy densities

Kinetic energy density = erg/cm3

Potential energy density = erg/cm3

Pressure energy density = erg/cm3





The pressure energy density in the constricted tube can now be

finally converted into more conventional pressure units to see the

effect of the constricted flow on the fluid pressure:



Calculated pressure in constriction =

P2= kPa = lb/in2 = mmHg = atmos.



This calculation can give some perspective on the energy involved in

fluid flow, but it's accuracy is always suspect because of the

assumption of laminar flow. For typical inlet conditions, the energy

density associated with the pressure will be dominant on the input

side; after all, we live at the bottom of an atmospheric sea which

contributes a large amount of pressure energy. If a drastic enough

reduction in radius is used to yield a pressure in the constriction

which is less than atmospheric pressure, there is almost certainly

some turbulence involved in the flow into that constriction.

Nevertheless, the calculation can show why we can get a significant

amount of suction (pressure less than atmospheric) with

an "aspirator" on a high pressure faucet. These devices consist of a

metal tube of reducing radius with a side tube into the region of

constricted radius for suction.



*Note: Some default values will be entered for some of the values as

you start exploring the calculation. All of them can be changed as a

part of your calculation.



Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC



> > > >

> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady



> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Kurt,

> > > > >

> > > > > No thanks, I already have a stock muffler.
Thanks for the

links,

> > > > > there's some pretty nifty items there. Be
careful with

those fancy

> > > > > braided stainless steel pieces. They look
sharp, but

they've always

> > > > > leaked on my turbocharged subaru wrx. Kurt,
you've been

around

> > > > > a few over-the-road coaches, Prevost' and what
not, what do

they

> > > > > run on their exhaust systems; i.e., expansion
pipes, flex

pipe, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > David Brady

> > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> > > > >

> > > > > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > David, Would you like to take that brand
new muffler off

my

> > > > hands???

> > > > > >

> > > > > > According to DD straight pipe & ECU
will not have any

issues in

> > > > the

> > > > > > 95 vintage S 60.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > OEM built that pipe for BB ACAP - As
Cheep As Possible -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The original routing of the pipe leaves
the turbo, source

of the

> > > > > > first failure, cracked the 1st 90 degree
turn a short

straight run

> > > > > > 2nd. 90 degree turn, then into a double
ball connector

that also

> > > > > > telescopes in and out. You can check out
that piece of S--

-, sorry

> > > > > > engineering wonder here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-


> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->

> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-



> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->>

> > > > 89.pdf

> > > > > >

<http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-


> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->

> > > > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70-



> > <http://www.dynaflexproducts.com/downloads/DP_Catalog_03_pg70->>

> > > > 89.pdf>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Page 76 Double Ball Joint with Slip Joint
Feature

Allowing Lateral

> > > > > > Movement length 16 to 18 inches mine
measures 14 .55

inches at

> > > > > > present. This marvel allows for 10
degrees of angularity

360

> > > > degree

> > > > > > rotation 2" of offset 2" axial movement,.
Hell the u

joints can't

> > > > > > move around that much. Besides it was
hard clamped to the

mount

> > > > from

> > > > > > the engine in front of this connection
not to mention

rusted to

> > > > the

> > > > > > point that it took an pneumatic impact
chisel to get it

apart.. So

> > > > > > what's the point. You need flex in
between the turbo and

the first

> > > > > > mount.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Flex Connector with liner I choose is
here at

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>

> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>

> > > > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>

> > > > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?


> > <http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?>>>

> > > > > >

> > > >

cPath=1022_1035_1064_1114&products_id=1008&osCsid=999d7ef5fdd15864bae3

> > > > > > 3db41abf5ef9

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The 2 90 degree turns were fabricated in
that manner

because it's

> > > > not

> > > > > > easy to bend large diameter pipe in a
single 180 degree

bend, thus

> > > > > > they weld 2 90's together, which is the
industry standard

for

> > > > > > manufacturing a 180 degree turn in large
pipe exhausts.

Well this

> > > > > > ain't the factory and we're not
constrained by what is

easy. I

> > > > have

> > > > > > acquired a 14ga 180 degree U-Tube that
has the same

external

> > > > > > dimensions as the original pipe. I'm not
an engineer but I

> > > > reasonably

> > > > > > certain that with the remaining 90 degree
bend and a 45

degree

> > > > bend

> > > > > > there will be sufficient back pressure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There will also be a flexible pipe hanger
mount behind

the Flex

> > > > > > connector mounted on the ceiling of the
engine

compartment that

> > > > will

> > > > > > support the middle section of pipe and
will allow for any

movement

> > > > > > and or torque that may be transferred to
the pipe by the

motor.

> > > > The

> > > > > > original clamps for the muffler have to
go as they are 6"

but the

> > > > > > rubber isolated mounting bars will remain
and that's all

that was

> > > > > > there to begin with. So where's the rub?
Bub!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not to take anything away from the
engineers that

designed the

> > > > Bird,

> > > > > > But there are some glaring deficiencies.
7 way trailer

plug, Air

> > > > > > Purge System, Watts valve, Accelerator
and Brake peddles,

Front

> > > > Left

> > > > > > Shock Mount, Relay for Jake Brake, W/D
Vent for Slendide

2000,

> > > > > > Installation of Refrigerator with
inadequate convection,

The seat

> > > > > > belts mounted to floor instead of the
seat, That reminds

me I

> > > > still

> > > > > > have to fix that one. Nothing like
hitting a road

transition just

> > > > to

> > > > > > have the air ride seat bounce and the
seat belts

automatically

> > > > adjust

> > > > > > for the slack then the air ride seat
rebounds and the

belts try to

> > > > > > cut you in half at the waist. That's just
the 95 PT 42.

I'm not

> > > > > > bitchin! I'm fixin

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kurt Horvath

> > > > > > 95 PT 42

> > > > > > 10AC

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady



> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kurt,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree with Greg. I'm gonna keep
mine stock. There's a

bunch

> > > > > > > of vibration and movement back
there. I figure BB's been

> > > > building

> > > > > > > buses a whole lot longer than I
have. Initially I'd

scratch my

> > > > > > > head when looking at the frame and
support pieces, but

when

> > > > > > > you consider that something as big
as a bus must twist

and flex,

> > > > > > > this flexibility needs to be
designed in. Make one piece

> > > > stronger

> > > > > > > and you've created a stress raiser
someplace else.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have a friend who transplanted a
honda v-tech motor

into a

> > > > > > > lotus elise. Everything worked but
the alternator

mount. The

> > > > mount

> > > > > > > insists on cracking. There can be
some weird harmonics

and

> > > > > > > resonant frequencies going on that
are difficult to

grasp and

> > > > > > > only trial and error and a 50 year
track record of

building

> > > > buses

> > > > > > > can solve (unless you can model it
and run high powered

> > > > > > > computer finite element analysis on
it). He's still

fighting

> > > > that

> > > > > > > mount...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Okay, I'm off my soap box.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > David Brady

> > > > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Gregory OConnor wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kurt, try and figure why there
were 4 bends. it may

be that

> > > > it was

> > > > > > > > engineered to alow for swing
room between the 'hung

exhaust'

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > the 'torque reaction of the
ruber mounted detroit'.

look at

> > > > the

> > > > > > roll

> > > > > > > > of the torque and see that
there is a place for the

movement

> > > > to

> > > > > > twist

> > > > > > > > a union. I kinda think this
movement was the problem

with the

> > > > > > > > resulting crack.

crack=result ;movement=cause ;facilitate

> > > > movement

> > > > > > > > =repair. may be that BB
enginered it correct but

someone

> > > > > > > > overtightened a band to cure an
exhaust leak???????

you also

> > > > got

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > keep the stack from
cantilivering off of the maniford

with

> > > > your

> > > > > > new

> > > > > > > > design. Scavenging is one
variable in fuel

efficiency. even

> > > > > > straight

> > > > > > > > pipes some time will result in
lower fuel economy

because the

> > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > variable get screwd.
backpressure is mathed into the

computer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------

----

> > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is
out-of-date.

> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus
Database: 270.8.0/1715 -

Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > > ------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database:
270.8.0/1715 - Release

Date:

> > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > Checked by AVG.

> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 -
Release

Date:

> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Kurt Horvath]

One pipe from the turbo then splits to two stacks.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> But doesn't the trucking industry run dual exhausts?
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Pete Masterson wrote:
> >
> > Having recently replaced my muffler (at great expense) -- had I
to do
> > it over again, I'd have switched over to a 5" system from turbo to
> > stack. As others have stated, it's 5" at the turbo outlet and the
> > standard in the heavy truck industry is 5".
> >
> > The only performance difference I notice (between the old blown
out
> > muffler and the new one) is that the exhaust-type Jake brake
seems to
> > be slightly less effective.
> >
> > Pete Masterson
> > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > aeonix1@...
> > On the road at Hohenwald, TN (Natchez Trace Parkway)
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > For the last four weeks I have queried Detroit Diesel, Custom
Exhaust
> > > Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s, Marine Exhaust
Engineers &
> > > Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that would lend an
ear, and
> > > no one has expressed any apprehension or regard in the respect
to a
> > > 5" exhaust system. In fact all parties expressed their surprise
in
> > > respect as to why the system would change size at the muffler.
> > >
> > > Several owners have modified their systems to 5" from end to
end, and
> > > have seen no change in performance. Positive or negative, In
general
> > > it was just a matter of convenience in acquiring parts, I won't
get
> > > into that. That has recently been beaten to death at the
expense of
> > > all parties involved
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[Kurt Horvath]

I guess you could or go to a large 8" single , bit the chrome shops
sell them for outrageous prices---$692.00
http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webc...splay.php?
itemid=74151
Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC


In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady wrote:
>
> Now we're talking. Can you fit two stacks back there? I'm
> serious. This will be an improvement in performance. Two stacks
> will dramatically reduce backpressure, which will result in
> lower turbo pyrometer temps, and will allow more boost and
> more power. A single 5 inch, as compared to the stock 6"
> will do the reverse.
>
> David
> '02 LXi, NC
>
>
> Kurt Horvath wrote:
> >
> > One pipe from the turbo then splits to two stacks.
> >
> > Kurt Horvath
> > 95 PT 42
> > 10AC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > , David Brady
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > But doesn't the trucking industry run dual exhausts?
> > >
> > > David Brady
> > > '02 LXi, NC
> > >
> > > Pete Masterson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Having recently replaced my muffler (at great expense) -- had
I
> > to do
> > > > it over again, I'd have switched over to a 5" system from
turbo to
> > > > stack. As others have stated, it's 5" at the turbo outlet and
the
> > > > standard in the heavy truck industry is 5".
> > > >
> > > > The only performance difference I notice (between the old
blown
> > out
> > > > muffler and the new one) is that the exhaust-type Jake brake
> > seems to
> > > > be slightly less effective.
> > > >
> > > > Pete Masterson
> > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > > aeonix1@
> > > > On the road at Hohenwald, TN (Natchez Trace Parkway)
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > For the last four weeks I have queried Detroit Diesel,
Custom
> > Exhaust
> > > > > Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s, Marine Exhaust
> > Engineers &
> > > > > Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that would lend an
> > ear, and
> > > > > no one has expressed any apprehension or regard in the
respect
> > to a
> > > > > 5" exhaust system. In fact all parties expressed their
surprise
> > in
> > > > > respect as to why the system would change size at the
muffler.
> > > > >
> > > > > Several owners have modified their systems to 5" from end to
> > end, and
> > > > > have seen no change in performance. Positive or negative, In
> > general
> > > > > it was just a matter of convenience in acquiring parts, I
won't
> > get
> > > > > into that. That has recently been beaten to death at the
> > expense of
> > > > > all parties involved
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > >
> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:
> > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
10/9/2008 12:00 AM
> >
>

[David Brady]

But doesn't the trucking industry run dual exhausts?



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Pete Masterson wrote:

Having recently replaced my muffler (at great expense) -- had I to
do

it over again, I'd have switched over to a 5" system from turbo to

stack. As others have stated, it's 5" at the turbo outlet and the

standard in the heavy truck industry is 5".



The only performance difference I notice (between the old blown out

muffler and the new one) is that the exhaust-type Jake brake seems to

be slightly less effective.



Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

"aeonix1%40mac.com"

On the road at Hohenwald, TN (Natchez Trace Parkway)



On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:

> <snip>

> For the last four weeks I have queried Detroit Diesel, Custom
Exhaust

> Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s, Marine Exhaust Engineers
&

> Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that would lend an ear,
and

> no one has expressed any apprehension or regard in the respect to a

> 5" exhaust system. In fact all parties expressed their surprise in

> respect as to why the system would change size at the muffler.

>

> Several owners have modified their systems to 5" from end to end,
and

> have seen no change in performance. Positive or negative, In
general

> it was just a matter of convenience in acquiring parts, I won't get

> into that. That has recently been beaten to death at the expense of

> all parties involved

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM