GPS 4.3" Widescreen

[Chuck Wheeler]

I have two different Garmin units, a GPS 60CX we use for geocaching and a
Street pilot we use in the car and BB. I have had to call customer support
twice once with a problem and once with a question after I mixed up the
software. Both times they answered quickly, were knowledgeable, and solved
the problem. For some reason the 60CX can navigate rural dirt roads and
farm roads better than the street pilot, but I am happy with both units. I
had a Magellan I used initially for geocaching, but Magellan dropped support
after three years and were no help.


- Chuck Wheeler-
1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Masterson
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:13 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] GPS 4.3" Widescreen

Adding to my frustration, shortly after going round with Magellan to get the
update CD, I received an ad from Best Buy (or someone like
that) offering a Garmin unit for about $5 more than the update CD cost. Had
I known what I was going to have to go through working with Magellan, I'd
have just tossed out the Roadmate 3050 and bought the Garmin unit.

Funny, had I not had the major hassle getting the upgrade CD from Magellan,
I'd have rated the GPS a "very satisfactory" -- but it was their dismal
service for the secondary sale that really soured me on them. (Frankly, I
don't know that Garmin is any better ... but I hardly think they could be
worse!)

BTW, as for the wide screen, I'm not sure it's that important. The 4"
or so screen on my unit is plenty for the information that it provides. If I
really need maps, then Google Maps or MapQuest
(online) are the better choices, viewed on my laptop screen.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart, TX



On Nov 29, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Joyce and Richard Hayden wrote:

> Thanks Pete. I was considering a Magellan product at Costco but will
> now buy a Garmin. I was at first looking at a Garmin but the guy at
> Costco seemed to be more in favor of the Magellan and that's why I was
> considering it. I guess he had never had to deal with them. Thank
> again for the first hand info.
>
> Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pete Masterson
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] GPS 4.3" Widescreen
>
> I have a Magellan Roadmate 3050. It's satisfactory as GPS devices
> go... The maps are sometimes not as up-to-date as I'd like, but I
> suspect that's a problem with any brand. (The caution is, take the
> advice of the GPS with a grain of salt, but watch the highway
> signs to make sure there hasn't been a change. Most problems I've had
> with mis-direction appears to have occurred where freeway ramps were
> rebuilt sometime in the past couple of years (based on the "new
> looking" concrete/pavement, etc.).
>
>
> However, the Magellan customer service leaves a LOT to be desired.
> After a year of ownership, (and having had the GPS 'freeze up' due to
> location/map discontinuities), I decided to update the maps.
> This required getting a CD and installing new maps in the GPS memory.
> Magellan had the most difficult, annoying customer service system. You
> had to "prove" you owned one of their GPS by providing serial numbers
> just to buy the $#@^ map CD. When I attempted to make the purchase on
> their web site, it gave me an error message (turned out the site was
> being "updated") and then the web site delivered a message "If you're
> having difficulty ordering, please call this number: 800 xxxxx". When
> I called the number -- and went through the irritating series of press
> this and press that and waiting and waiting, I finally got a resident
> of Bangalore who barely spoke English. I was informed that they were
> not allowed to take payment information and could not place the order.
>
> Several days later, I had to go through and repeat the online order
> process (the ONLY way to order) and FINALLY, I was able to
> successfully order the Update CD. Once received the CD required more
> hoops to go through to ensure that I was not "stealing" the data
> (enter the serial number of my unit AND a code number from the
> invoice).
>
> I will never buy anything from Magellan ever again. I suggest others
> do likewise. Go with the Garmin Nuvi -- but make sure that it is
> compatible with your computer, if you ever wish to interface with it
> or update your maps.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Carlsbad, NM
>
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:51 PM, George Burke wrote:
>
>> I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code for I
>> don't want the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it
>> down to the Garmin Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like
>> the 4.3" wide screen on these units, and they are currently on sale
>> at roughly $150. The Magellan has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while
>> the comparable Garmin only covers the lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both
>> carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty. Would like to hear from any of you who
>> own one or more of these things. Need input on the pluses and minuses
>> of both units. If you had a bad experience with one or the other,
>> would love to hear how either of these companies took care of you.
>> Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>
>
>


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[drw907]

I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch screen
and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can reach the
touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits in a
optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the touch
screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not read
through the roof of the BMC)

This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more. The
new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and points
of interest.

I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We will
use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you can
download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
http://www.delorme.com/

They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen is
small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and the
NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld compared
to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's intended
use.
Dan
94 BB BMC 37'




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Burke"
wrote:
>
> I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code for I
don't want
> the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it down to
the Garmin
> Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3" wide
screen on
> these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150. The
Magellan
> has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin only
covers the
> lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty. Would
like to hear
> from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need input on
the
> pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience with
one or
> the other, would love to hear how either of these companies took
care of
> you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>

[erniecarpet@...]

a 7 inch screen?? Man, I could see that display without my glasses!!

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40 Wanderlodge
Weatherford, Texas

---

Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com.

[George Burke]

I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since Jack, Pete, Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and models that I was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my purposes, it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was initially looking at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower 48. There are other features included at very little to no extra cost, some that I will use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I despise companys that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing business with them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling refurbished Garmin gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr. warranty from Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 <"drw907@yahoo.com"> wrote:

I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch screen
and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can reach the
touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits in a

optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the touch
screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not read
through the roof of the BMC)


This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more. The
new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and points
of interest.

I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We will

use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you can
download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water

navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
http://www.delorme.com/

They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen is

small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and the
NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld compared
to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's intended

use.
Dan
94 BB BMC 37'

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "George Burke"
wrote:
>

> I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code for I
don't want
> the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it down to
the Garmin
> Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3" wide

screen on
> these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150. The
Magellan
> has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin only
covers the
> lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty. Would

like to hear
> from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need input on
the
> pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience with
one or
> the other, would love to hear how either of these companies took

care of
> you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>

[Kurt Horvath]

George,

I just bought the kids and Mom Garmin Nuvi 760's and a 755T from
http://www.tigergps.com New not REFURB!!!! The have a good online
rating for sales and service. $249 delivered for the 760' and $299
for the 755T. They also have the huge 7" 7500 for $400. In stock and
shipped. I did lots of surfing for info and the 760's are rated 5
5tars, and the 755T is the same with life time traffic service.

Sorry I just went to that web site and all the prices have gone up.
Yesterday was Cyber Monday, stuff was on sale. The 760's ars nor
$269.00 with free shipping still a good deal.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC






--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Burke"
wrote:
>
> I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since
Jack, Pete,
> Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and models
that I
> was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my
purposes,
> it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was initially
looking
> at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower 48.
There are
> other features included at very little to no extra cost, some that
I will
> use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I despise
companys
> that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing business
with
> them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling refurbished
Garmin
> gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr.
warranty from
> Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 wrote:
>
> > I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch
screen
> > and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
> > windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can reach
the
> > touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits
in a
> > optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
> > antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the
touch
> > screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not
read
> > through the roof of the BMC)
> >
> > This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more.
The
> > new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and
points
> > of interest.
> >
> > I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We
will
> > use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
> > fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
> > about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you can
> > download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
> > navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
> > http://www.delorme.com/
> >
> > They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
> > antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen is
> > small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
> > Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and the
> > NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld
compared
> > to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's
intended
> > use.
> > Dan
> > 94 BB BMC 37'
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "George Burke"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code for
I
> > don't want
> > > the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it down
to
> > the Garmin
> > > Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3" wide
> > screen on
> > > these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150. The
> > Magellan
> > > has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin
only
> > covers the
> > > lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty. Would
> > like to hear
> > > from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need input
on
> > the
> > > pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience
with
> > one or
> > > the other, would love to hear how either of these companies took
> > care of
> > > you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Michael]

Hello All, I ended up getting a Garmin Nuvi 660. With the 700 series
out these are really good deals now. It has the bluetooth phone,
external memory chip, and FM wireless broadcast (my favorite). So I
can load up all my music and listen to it over the stereo in my bus
with amplifiers and sub woofers.

HOWEVER, since this is my 1st GPS I'm not sure what to expect as far
as navigation. I've played with all the settings (bus, truck, car,
motorcycle, shortest, quickest, etc..) and it will still turn me off
into a residential area when i can see the "main" road just 1/2 mile
ahead???? I'm not sure I understand its logic??? I was able to
update it off the web for free, I bought it last April.

Anyone else have these strange navigational issues? I just want it
to keep me on major roads and highways!

Michael
78FC35
Mesa, Az

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Horvath"
wrote:
>
> George,
>
> I just bought the kids and Mom Garmin Nuvi 760's and a 755T from
> http://www.tigergps.com New not REFURB!!!! The have a good online
> rating for sales and service. $249 delivered for the 760' and $299
> for the 755T. They also have the huge 7" 7500 for $400. In stock
and
> shipped. I did lots of surfing for info and the 760's are rated 5
> 5tars, and the 755T is the same with life time traffic service.
>
> Sorry I just went to that web site and all the prices have gone up.
> Yesterday was Cyber Monday, stuff was on sale. The 760's ars nor
> $269.00 with free shipping still a good deal.
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT 42
> 10AC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Burke"
> wrote:
> >
> > I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since
> Jack, Pete,
> > Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and
models
> that I
> > was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my
> purposes,
> > it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was
initially
> looking
> > at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower
48.
> There are
> > other features included at very little to no extra cost, some
that
> I will
> > use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I
despise
> companys
> > that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing
business
> with
> > them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling
refurbished
> Garmin
> > gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr.
> warranty from
> > Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 wrote:
> >
> > > I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch
> screen
> > > and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
> > > windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can
reach
> the
> > > touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits
> in a
> > > optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
> > > antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the
> touch
> > > screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not
> read
> > > through the roof of the BMC)
> > >
> > > This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more.
> The
> > > new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and
> points
> > > of interest.
> > >
> > > I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We
> will
> > > use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
> > > fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
> > > about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you can
> > > download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
> > > navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
> > > http://www.delorme.com/
> > >
> > > They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
> > > antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen is
> > > small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
> > > Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and
the
> > > NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld
> compared
> > > to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's
> intended
> > > use.
> > > Dan
> > > 94 BB BMC 37'
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "George Burke"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code
for
> I
> > > don't want
> > > > the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it
down
> to
> > > the Garmin
> > > > Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3"
wide
> > > screen on
> > > > these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150.
The
> > > Magellan
> > > > has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin
> only
> > > covers the
> > > > lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty.
Would
> > > like to hear
> > > > from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need
input
> on
> > > the
> > > > pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience
> with
> > > one or
> > > > the other, would love to hear how either of these companies
took
> > > care of
> > > > you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

90+ of the time, my GPS seems to have reasonable routes. But that
other 10% of the time can come up with some doozies. On one trip, it
told me to turn onto a gravel road -- that eventually got to my
destination. It just didn't seem to believe that the 4 lane divided
highway I was on existed.

When I was in Texas last year, I asked for a route from Kerrville (in
the Texas Hill Country) to Denver. The GPS directed me to drive to El
Paso, then turn north!! The route was totally bogus and when hundreds
of miles out of the way. (The most direct route was north on U.S.
87/287/I-27 via Lubbock and Limon CO.)

Today, I was traveling along a freeway near Phoenix, AZ -- there was
some serious construction going on, and the lanes were actually
running along what may some day be a frontage road. The GPS went
bonkers -- "recalculating route!", "recalculating route!", "Turn left
at the next intersection" (that didn't exist) and so on. At times
like that, it's best to just turn off the vocalizations.

I now plan my trips using Google maps (maps.google.com) and use the
GPS for navigation while enroute. If something sounds fishy (from the
GPS), I'll verify it against the Google map.

There are also times where the GPS can be completely bamboozled. In
the SF Bay Area, there are streets that are duplicated in several
cities -- and an error during entry can direct you to the totally
wrong place. (Don't ask how I know.)

Most of the time the GPS is great. A few times, it's totally crazy. I
now do what seems to make sense, and I let the GPS go on
"recalculating route!" until it and I seem to be in agreement.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Williams, AZ



On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Michael wrote:

> Hello All, I ended up getting a Garmin Nuvi 660. With the 700 series
> out these are really good deals now. It has the bluetooth phone,
> external memory chip, and FM wireless broadcast (my favorite). So I
> can load up all my music and listen to it over the stereo in my bus
> with amplifiers and sub woofers.
>
> HOWEVER, since this is my 1st GPS I'm not sure what to expect as far
> as navigation. I've played with all the settings (bus, truck, car,
> motorcycle, shortest, quickest, etc..) and it will still turn me off
> into a residential area when i can see the "main" road just 1/2 mile
> ahead???? I'm not sure I understand its logic??? I was able to
> update it off the web for free, I bought it last April.
>
> Anyone else have these strange navigational issues? I just want it
> to keep me on major roads and highways!
>
> Michael
> 78FC35
> Mesa, Az
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Horvath"
> wrote:
>>
>> George,
>>
>> I just bought the kids and Mom Garmin Nuvi 760's and a 755T from
>> http://www.tigergps.com New not REFURB!!!! The have a good online
>> rating for sales and service. $249 delivered for the 760' and $299
>> for the 755T. They also have the huge 7" 7500 for $400. In stock
> and
>> shipped. I did lots of surfing for info and the 760's are rated 5
>> 5tars, and the 755T is the same with life time traffic service.
>>
>> Sorry I just went to that web site and all the prices have gone up.
>> Yesterday was Cyber Monday, stuff was on sale. The 760's ars nor
>> $269.00 with free shipping still a good deal.
>>
>> Kurt Horvath
>> 95 PT 42
>> 10AC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Burke"
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since
>> Jack, Pete,
>>> Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and
> models
>> that I
>>> was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my
>> purposes,
>>> it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was
> initially
>> looking
>>> at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower
> 48.
>> There are
>>> other features included at very little to no extra cost, some
> that
>> I will
>>> use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I
> despise
>> companys
>>> that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing
> business
>> with
>>> them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling
> refurbished
>> Garmin
>>> gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr.
>> warranty from
>>> Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch
>> screen
>>>> and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
>>>> windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can
> reach
>> the
>>>> touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits
>> in a
>>>> optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
>>>> antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the
>> touch
>>>> screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not
>> read
>>>> through the roof of the BMC)
>>>>
>>>> This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more.
>> The
>>>> new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and
>> points
>>>> of interest.
>>>>
>>>> I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We
>> will
>>>> use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
>>>> fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
>>>> about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you can
>>>> download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
>>>> navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
>>>> http://www.delorme.com/
>>>>
>>>> They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
>>>> antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen is
>>>> small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
>>>> Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and
> the
>>>> NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld
>> compared
>>>> to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's
>> intended
>>>> use.
>>>> Dan
>>>> 94 BB BMC 37'
>>>>
>>>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com >> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>>>> "George Burke"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code
> for
>> I
>>>> don't want
>>>>> the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it
> down
>> to
>>>> the Garmin
>>>>> Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3"
> wide
>>>> screen on
>>>>> these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150.
> The
>>>> Magellan
>>>>> has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin
>> only
>>>> covers the
>>>>> lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty.
> Would
>>>> like to hear
>>>>> from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need
> input
>> on
>>>> the
>>>>> pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience
>> with
>>>> one or
>>>>> the other, would love to hear how either of these companies
> took
>>>> care of
>>>>> you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[putneyflash@...]

My GPS does the same thing sometimes, I know it will get me there just not always on the route I would have chosen.When i first had it take me home I bypassed the way it wanted me to go. The next time I used it to go home it took me the route I had used.

RE 1984 PT-40

--
RE

-------------- Original message from "Michael" <mike.putz@...>: --------------

Hello All, I ended up getting a Garmin Nuvi 660. With the 700 series
out these are really good deals now. It has the bluetooth phone,
external memory chip, and FM wireless broadcast (my favorite). So I
can load up all my music and listen to it over the stereo in my bus
with amplifiers and sub woofers.

HOWEVER, since this is my 1st GPS I'm not sure what to expect as far
as navigation. I've played with all the settings (bus, truck, car,
motorcycle, shortest, quickest, etc..) and it will still turn me off
into a residential area when i can see the "main" road just 1/2 mile
ahead???? I'm not sure I understand its logic??? I was able to
update it off the web for free, I bought it last April.

Anyone else have these strange navigational issues? I just want it
to keep me on major roads and highways!

Michael
78FC35
Mesa, Az

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Kurt Horvath"
wrote:
>
> George,
>
> I just bought the kids and Mom Garmin Nuvi 760's and a 755T from
> http://www.tigergps.com New not REFURB!!!! The have a good online
> rating for sales and service. $249 delivered for the 760' and $299
> for the 755T. They also have the huge 7" 7500 for $400. In stock
and
> shipped. I did lots of surfing for info and the 760's are rated 5
> 5tars, and the 755T is the same with life time traffic service.
>
> Sorry I just went to that web site and all the prices have gone up.
> Yesterday was Cyber Monday, stuff was on sale. The 760's ars nor
> $269.00 with free shipping still a good deal.
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT 42
> 10AC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "George Burke"
> wrote:
> >
> > I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since
> Jack, Pete,
> > Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and
models
> that I
> > was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my
> purposes,
> > it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was
initially
> looking
> > at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower
48.
> There are
> > other features included at very little to no extra cost, some
that
> I will
> > use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I
despise
> companys
> > that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing
business
> with
> > them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling
refurbished
> Garmin
> > gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr.
> warranty from
> > Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 wrote:
> >
> > > I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch
> screen
> > > and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
> > > windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can
reach
> the
> > > touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits
> in a
> > > optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
> > > antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the
> touch
> > > screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not
> read
> > > through the roof of the BMC)
> > >
> > > This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more.
> The
> > > new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and
> points
> > > of interest.
> > >
> > > I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We
> will
> > > use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
> > > fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
> > > about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you can
> > > download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
> > > navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
> > > http://www.delorme.com/
> > >
> > > They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
> > > antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen is
> > > small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
> > > Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and
the
> > > NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld
> compared
> > > to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's
> intended
> > > use.
> > > Dan
> > > 94 BB BMC 37'
> > >
> > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com" > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "George Burke"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code
for
> I
> > > don't want
> > > > the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it
down
> to
> > > the Garmin
> > > > Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3"
wide
> > > screen on
> > > > these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150.
The
> > > Magellan
> > > > has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin
> only
> > > covers the
> > > > lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty.
Would
> > > like to hear
> > > > from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need
input
> on
> > > the
> > > > pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience
> with
> > > one or
> > > > the other, would love to hear how either of these companies
took
> > > care of
> > > > you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Michael]

Hey Pete.. Enjoy your trip, you just drove by my house! In in Mesa
off the 101/202 intersection. I'm heading down to Rocky Point,
Mexico next week then will be heading up to Williams myself the
26th. They've got a really neat deal at the Williams RV park. 3
days 2 nights plus a train ride to the Grand Canyon for only $75 per
person if you're interested?

Drive Safely...

Michael & Tami
78FC35
Mesa, Az

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> 90+ of the time, my GPS seems to have reasonable routes. But that
> other 10% of the time can come up with some doozies. On one trip,
it
> told me to turn onto a gravel road -- that eventually got to my
> destination. It just didn't seem to believe that the 4 lane
divided
> highway I was on existed.
>
> When I was in Texas last year, I asked for a route from Kerrville
(in
> the Texas Hill Country) to Denver. The GPS directed me to drive to
El
> Paso, then turn north!! The route was totally bogus and when
hundreds
> of miles out of the way. (The most direct route was north on U.S.
> 87/287/I-27 via Lubbock and Limon CO.)
>
> Today, I was traveling along a freeway near Phoenix, AZ -- there
was
> some serious construction going on, and the lanes were actually
> running along what may some day be a frontage road. The GPS went
> bonkers -- "recalculating route!", "recalculating route!", "Turn
left
> at the next intersection" (that didn't exist) and so on. At times
> like that, it's best to just turn off the vocalizations.
>
> I now plan my trips using Google maps (maps.google.com) and use
the
> GPS for navigation while enroute. If something sounds fishy (from
the
> GPS), I'll verify it against the Google map.
>
> There are also times where the GPS can be completely bamboozled.
In
> the SF Bay Area, there are streets that are duplicated in several
> cities -- and an error during entry can direct you to the totally
> wrong place. (Don't ask how I know.)
>
> Most of the time the GPS is great. A few times, it's totally crazy.
I
> now do what seems to make sense, and I let the GPS go on
> "recalculating route!" until it and I seem to be in agreement.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Williams, AZ
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> > Hello All, I ended up getting a Garmin Nuvi 660. With the 700
series
> > out these are really good deals now. It has the bluetooth phone,
> > external memory chip, and FM wireless broadcast (my favorite).
So I
> > can load up all my music and listen to it over the stereo in my
bus
> > with amplifiers and sub woofers.
> >
> > HOWEVER, since this is my 1st GPS I'm not sure what to expect as
far
> > as navigation. I've played with all the settings (bus, truck,
car,
> > motorcycle, shortest, quickest, etc..) and it will still turn me
off
> > into a residential area when i can see the "main" road just 1/2
mile
> > ahead???? I'm not sure I understand its logic??? I was able to
> > update it off the web for free, I bought it last April.
> >
> > Anyone else have these strange navigational issues? I just want
it
> > to keep me on major roads and highways!
> >
> > Michael
> > 78FC35
> > Mesa, Az
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Horvath"
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> George,
> >>
> >> I just bought the kids and Mom Garmin Nuvi 760's and a 755T from
> >> http://www.tigergps.com New not REFURB!!!! The have a good online
> >> rating for sales and service. $249 delivered for the 760' and
$299
> >> for the 755T. They also have the huge 7" 7500 for $400. In stock
> > and
> >> shipped. I did lots of surfing for info and the 760's are rated 5
> >> 5tars, and the 755T is the same with life time traffic service.
> >>
> >> Sorry I just went to that web site and all the prices have gone
up.
> >> Yesterday was Cyber Monday, stuff was on sale. The 760's ars nor
> >> $269.00 with free shipping still a good deal.
> >>
> >> Kurt Horvath
> >> 95 PT 42
> >> 10AC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Burke"

> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since
> >> Jack, Pete,
> >>> Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and
> > models
> >> that I
> >>> was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my
> >> purposes,
> >>> it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was
> > initially
> >> looking
> >>> at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower
> > 48.
> >> There are
> >>> other features included at very little to no extra cost, some
> > that
> >> I will
> >>> use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I
> > despise
> >> companys
> >>> that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing
> > business
> >> with
> >>> them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling
> > refurbished
> >> Garmin
> >>> gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr.
> >> warranty from
> >>> Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch
> >> screen
> >>>> and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
> >>>> windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can
> > reach
> >> the
> >>>> touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits
> >> in a
> >>>> optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
> >>>> antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the
> >> touch
> >>>> screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not
> >> read
> >>>> through the roof of the BMC)
> >>>>
> >>>> This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more.
> >> The
> >>>> new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and
> >> points
> >>>> of interest.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We
> >> will
> >>>> use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
> >>>> fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
> >>>> about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you
can
> >>>> download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
> >>>> navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
> >>>> http://www.delorme.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
> >>>> antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen
is
> >>>> small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
> >>>> Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and
> > the
> >>>> NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld
> >> compared
> >>>> to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's
> >> intended
> >>>> use.
> >>>> Dan
> >>>> 94 BB BMC 37'
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > >> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >>>> "George Burke"
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code
> > for
> >> I
> >>>> don't want
> >>>>> the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it
> > down
> >> to
> >>>> the Garmin
> >>>>> Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3"
> > wide
> >>>> screen on
> >>>>> these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150.
> > The
> >>>> Magellan
> >>>>> has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin
> >> only
> >>>> covers the
> >>>>> lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty.
> > Would
> >>>> like to hear
> >>>>> from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need
> > input
> >> on
> >>>> the
> >>>>> pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience
> >> with
> >>>> one or
> >>>>> the other, would love to hear how either of these companies
> > took
> >>>> care of
> >>>>> you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

We stayed at Canyon Gateway RV Park -- they're a Passport America
park and are fairly cheap.

I saw the deals for RVers mentioned on the Grand Canyon Railway web
site. But, as I've noted, after 21 years working for a railroad, I've
ridden enough trains.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Williams, AZ



On Dec 4, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael wrote:

> Hey Pete.. Enjoy your trip, you just drove by my house! In in Mesa
> off the 101/202 intersection. I'm heading down to Rocky Point,
> Mexico next week then will be heading up to Williams myself the
> 26th. They've got a really neat deal at the Williams RV park. 3
> days 2 nights plus a train ride to the Grand Canyon for only $75 per
> person if you're interested?
>
> Drive Safely...
>
> Michael & Tami
> 78FC35
> Mesa, Az
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
> wrote:
>>
>> 90+ of the time, my GPS seems to have reasonable routes. But that
>> other 10% of the time can come up with some doozies. On one trip,
> it
>> told me to turn onto a gravel road -- that eventually got to my
>> destination. It just didn't seem to believe that the 4 lane
> divided
>> highway I was on existed.
>>
>> When I was in Texas last year, I asked for a route from Kerrville
> (in
>> the Texas Hill Country) to Denver. The GPS directed me to drive to
> El
>> Paso, then turn north!! The route was totally bogus and when
> hundreds
>> of miles out of the way. (The most direct route was north on U.S.
>> 87/287/I-27 via Lubbock and Limon CO.)
>>
>> Today, I was traveling along a freeway near Phoenix, AZ -- there
> was
>> some serious construction going on, and the lanes were actually
>> running along what may some day be a frontage road. The GPS went
>> bonkers -- "recalculating route!", "recalculating route!", "Turn
> left
>> at the next intersection" (that didn't exist) and so on. At times
>> like that, it's best to just turn off the vocalizations.
>>
>> I now plan my trips using Google maps (maps.google.com) and use
> the
>> GPS for navigation while enroute. If something sounds fishy (from
> the
>> GPS), I'll verify it against the Google map.
>>
>> There are also times where the GPS can be completely bamboozled.
> In
>> the SF Bay Area, there are streets that are duplicated in several
>> cities -- and an error during entry can direct you to the totally
>> wrong place. (Don't ask how I know.)
>>
>> Most of the time the GPS is great. A few times, it's totally crazy.
> I
>> now do what seems to make sense, and I let the GPS go on
>> "recalculating route!" until it and I seem to be in agreement.
>>
>> Pete Masterson
>> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>> aeonix1@...
>> On the road at Williams, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Michael wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All, I ended up getting a Garmin Nuvi 660. With the 700
> series
>>> out these are really good deals now. It has the bluetooth phone,
>>> external memory chip, and FM wireless broadcast (my favorite).
> So I
>>> can load up all my music and listen to it over the stereo in my
> bus
>>> with amplifiers and sub woofers.
>>>
>>> HOWEVER, since this is my 1st GPS I'm not sure what to expect as
> far
>>> as navigation. I've played with all the settings (bus, truck,
> car,
>>> motorcycle, shortest, quickest, etc..) and it will still turn me
> off
>>> into a residential area when i can see the "main" road just 1/2
> mile
>>> ahead???? I'm not sure I understand its logic??? I was able to
>>> update it off the web for free, I bought it last April.
>>>
>>> Anyone else have these strange navigational issues? I just want
> it
>>> to keep me on major roads and highways!
>>>
>>> Michael
>>> 78FC35
>>> Mesa, Az
>>>
>>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Horvath"
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> George,
>>>>
>>>> I just bought the kids and Mom Garmin Nuvi 760's and a 755T from
>>>> http://www.tigergps.com New not REFURB!!!! The have a good online
>>>> rating for sales and service. $249 delivered for the 760' and
> $299
>>>> for the 755T. They also have the huge 7" 7500 for $400. In stock
>>> and
>>>> shipped. I did lots of surfing for info and the 760's are rated 5
>>>> 5tars, and the 755T is the same with life time traffic service.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I just went to that web site and all the prices have gone
> up.
>>>> Yesterday was Cyber Monday, stuff was on sale. The 760's ars nor
>>>> $269.00 with free shipping still a good deal.
>>>>
>>>> Kurt Horvath
>>>> 95 PT 42
>>>> 10AC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Burke"
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to thank all of you that responded to this thread. Since
>>>> Jack, Pete,
>>>>> Gary, and others who passed on info. on the two brands and
>>> models
>>>> that I
>>>>> was looking at, I have decided to go with the Garmin 650. For my
>>>> purposes,
>>>>> it will give longer battery life than the 205W that I was
>>> initially
>>>> looking
>>>>> at, along with maps of North America instead of just the lower
>>> 48.
>>>> There are
>>>>> other features included at very little to no extra cost, some
>>> that
>>>> I will
>>>>> use, some not. Thanks Pete, for the heads up on Magellan. I
>>> despise
>>>> companys
>>>>> that give lousy customer service. We should all stop doing
>>> business
>>>> with
>>>>> them. There are some companys on E-Bay that are selling
>>> refurbished
>>>> Garmin
>>>>> gps units at very good prices, all coming with a full one yr.
>>>> warranty from
>>>>> Garmin. Thanks again, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM, drw907 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have the older Garmin street pilot 330 3.5" diaganol touch
>>>> screen
>>>>>> and like it - very user friendly. In the car I run it on the
>>>>>> windshield with suction cup mounts that came with it (I can
>>> reach
>>>> the
>>>>>> touch screen on the windshield mount). In the motorhome it sits
>>>> in a
>>>>>> optional dash mount, with a optional remote magnetic GPS remote
>>>>>> antenna on the roof (the mount and antenna so I could reach the
>>>> touch
>>>>>> screen from the drivers seat of the coach - this unit could not
>>>> read
>>>>>> through the roof of the BMC)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This year I updated the software for $70 and like it even more.
>>>> The
>>>>>> new software calculates quicker, has all the new streets, and
>>>> points
>>>>>> of interest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have ordered a GPS handheld unit - the new Delorme PN-40. We
>>>> will
>>>>>> use it for hiking, bicycling, and sea kayaking. We will start
>>>>>> fulltiming this year, so it should get good use. The nice thing
>>>>>> about Delorme is that for a $29 annual subscription fee, you
> can
>>>>>> download as many detail maps as you want (topography, water
>>>>>> navigation, other countries, etc). Delorme PN 40 info at:
>>>>>> http://www.delorme.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They do make vehicle mounts for the PN40, and it has the latest
>>>>>> antenna tech that "may" read through the roof of a BB. Screen
> is
>>>>>> small so it is primarily a listen to directions while driving.
>>>>>> Unit is likely better as a handheld than a driving tool - and
>>> the
>>>>>> NUVI better as a driving tool but not as much as a handheld
>>>> compared
>>>>>> to the PN40. The PN 40 is the latest and greatest for it's
>>>> intended
>>>>>> use.
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>> 94 BB BMC 37'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com >>>> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>>>>>> "George Burke"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am looking at giving my self a early Xmas gift,(Guy code
>>> for
>>>> I
>>>>>> don't want
>>>>>>> the wife to Know about this just Yet). I have narrowed it
>>> down
>>>> to
>>>>>> the Garmin
>>>>>>> Nuvi 205W, and the Magellan Roadmate 1412. I like the 4.3"
>>> wide
>>>>>> screen on
>>>>>>> these units, and they are currently on sale at roughly $150.
>>> The
>>>>>> Magellan
>>>>>>> has maps of the U.S. and Canada, while the comparable Garmin
>>>> only
>>>>>> covers the
>>>>>>> lower 48 + Hawaii & P.R. Both carry a 1 Yr. P&L warranty.
>>> Would
>>>>>> like to hear
>>>>>>> from any of you who own one or more of these things. Need
>>> input
>>>> on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> pluses and minuses of both units. If you had a bad experience
>>>> with
>>>>>> one or
>>>>>>> the other, would love to hear how either of these companies
>>> took
>>>>>> care of
>>>>>>> you. Thanks, George Burke 1977 FC31 Charlotte
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>