80 bird with 3208 cat keeps stalling - PLEASE help

[erniecarpet@...]

John, when you changed your Racor- did you change out the gasket in the lid?
Or maybe that gasket is missing? We'll narrow it down, soon. Ernie -83PT40 in
Texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Adria Haynes]

Gurus,

I had been here for a while, took a break, but have been lurking
again
for a while. I NEED HELP!

What I have is a Wanderlodge 35fc with a newer 3208 Cat. We just
used it last month for a long weekend that was 2 hours away and
everything went excellent. We started the trip with 1/4 tank,
filled up, and had 1/2 tank when the trip was over - which how it
has sat for the past
month.

I fired it up for a few minutes on Thursday night to make sure we
were ready to rock for the long weekend. After getting everything
ready to head out - it wouldn't stay running. Per advice from
friends and family, I changed the fuel filter at the back of the
motor with a brand new one that was FULL of fuel. I also changed out
the water seperator and filter under the LP compartment door. I
removed, refilled, and reinstalled the engine bay fuel filter a
number of times. Each time priming it with the primer.

After removing the air filter, the bus would start and run if I shot
and kept shooting starting fluid down the intake. After a while, it
seemed to be able to sustain on its own. I had to keep the throttle
pulled back to keep it idling a little over 1200. While the tach
indicated steady RPM's, the cloud out the back indicated sputtering
within. Again, after a while it would run on its own, seem to run
well, but not for long before it would start to sputter. At that
point, I would remove the new fuel filter and find it to be only
about 1/4 full of fuel - making me to believe that it died when the
fuel filter ran out of fuel. When removing the new filter, at the
point when the seal breaks, it gives out that "shtook" popping sound
as though it were under heavy suction.

Another interesting thing is that after having been run, I would
turn the valve on the water seperator. Not only would the liquids
not just stream out - it would "burble and chug" out the bottom but
only do so after it looked like it sucked air IN - as though there
were a natural vacuum.

After having the vacation already wrecked, I need to focus on
getting it back up and running again ASAP. I read a post on the
vintagebirds.com site in which a gentleman indicated that he had an
81 with a 1/2 tank that acted like he was out of fuel and that he
added more fuel and it behaved as long as he kept it above the 1/2
tank level until he did something with a 1/4" copper line.

I'm unclear as to what he did to fix it and cannot contact him.

Is it a common problem for a bird such as mine to ALL OF A SUDDEN
act like it has a heavy fuel restriction or act like its out of
gas? My uncle seems to think its acting like it's sucking air into
the line or there is a restriction.

Please help, I'm desperate. Any help, suggestions, or anything
would be HUGELY appreciated.

Thanks, John in Flint.

[erniecarpet@...]

Go to a paint store and buy a 5 gallon bucket. When you remove the drain
plug, you can see how much fuel is going into the bucket. Your hands will "love"
you for the immersion. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Adria Haynes]

That gasket seemed intact so I just reused it. I had to pry the lid
off as it was - so I had a fair amount of confidence in its sealing
integrity, but will replace that/those gasket(s) tonight just to make
sure. Thanks for the tip though!

John

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@a... wrote:
> John, when you changed your Racor- did you change out the gasket in
the lid?
> Or maybe that gasket is missing? We'll narrow it down, soon. Ernie -
83PT40 in
> Texas
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Harvey Lawrence]

I think Erinie is correct the fact you have the hissing noise when
you break the fuel line joint means it is taking a heavy suction, and
getting air instead of fuel, When it runs it uses the fuel in the line
and then quits until it gets some more. Check all fuel coupling ,
filter gaskets, gasket integrity on both filters, and while your at it
crawl under and drain a quart of fuel out of the tank for examination.
Pull off your secondary fuel filter and empty it out in a container to
see if it is contaminated. A diesel needs air and fuel and it will
run. yours is getting starved for one or the other.
By the way you violated a cardinal rule for maintaining a good fuel
line. Never reuse a gasket. They get indentations from the first use
and when you re use them they may or may not seat properly
Harv

[Adria Haynes]

I didn't break any joints - just when I unscrewed the filter itself did
I get that noise. I really should have known better - no excuse, just
under high stress with no sleep.

How hard is it to drain from the tank bottom?

Are you referring to the screw on canister filter - that looks like a
big oil filter - at the back of the engine under the doghouse the
secondary filter?

I would guess that I'm missing fuel over air since it races with the
shot of starting fluid.

Thanks again,
John

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey Lawrence"
wrote:
> I think Erinie is correct the fact you have the hissing noise when
> you break the fuel line joint means it is taking a heavy suction, and
> getting air instead of fuel, When it runs it uses the fuel in the
line
> and then quits until it gets some more. Check all fuel coupling ,
> filter gaskets, gasket integrity on both filters, and while your at
it
> crawl under and drain a quart of fuel out of the tank for examination.
> Pull off your secondary fuel filter and empty it out in a container
to
> see if it is contaminated. A diesel needs air and fuel and it will
> run. yours is getting starved for one or the other.
> By the way you violated a cardinal rule for maintaining a good fuel
> line. Never reuse a gasket. They get indentations from the first use
> and when you re use them they may or may not seat properly
> Harv

[George Lowry]

Hi John,

One of the first things that comes to mind is algae in the fuel. Never
let a diesel tank sit unless it is full. Always use an algaecide when
leaving the coach for two weeks or more.

With a partial tank, you have an air space and condensation will form
putting water in the tank, especially in your climate. There are
"bugs" in the diesel and they will grow at the point where the water
and diesel meet. If left long enough, they will clog everything. Best
thing to do is to use an algaecide whenever you are not going to use
the coach. When we are traveling and are refueling every couple of
days from a source that has fresh fuel, I skip the algaecide. But when
I am returning from a trip and/or will be parked for a while, I always
give it a dose of algaecide and fill the tank as full as I can get it.

You can get algaecide at any truck stop. There are several good
brands. I happen to currently use Howe's but others are just as good.
I learned this the hard way, having to change filters several times as
well as treating with algaecide on another coach before it would run
right. Since I keep the tank full and treated, I have had no problems
in over 15 years.

One other thing: I am not familiar with the BB of that vintage but
many manufacturers used a sock filter on the pickup tube in the tank.
It works great at keeping large stuff out of the fuel line but it will
clog with algae and give the symptoms you describe. If BB used such a
filter, that could be your problem. Usually treatment with algaecide
will correct it - worse case would require dropping the tank for
cleaning. It is much cheaper and easier to keep the tank full and
treated.

George Lowry
'95 WBDA 4203 & GM 4106 (for sale)
Spearfish, SD

Adria Haynes wrote:

> Gurus,
>
> I had been here for a while, took a break, but have been lurking
> again
> for a while. I NEED HELP!
>
> What I have is a Wanderlodge 35fc with a newer 3208 Cat. We just
> used it last month for a long weekend that was 2 hours away and
> everything went excellent. We started the trip with 1/4 tank,
> filled up, and had 1/2 tank when the trip was over - which how it
> has sat for the past
> month.
>
> I fired it up for a few minutes on Thursday night to make sure we
> were ready to rock for the long weekend. After getting everything
> ready to head out - it wouldn't stay running. Per advice from
> friends and family, I changed the fuel filter at the back of the
> motor with a brand new one that was FULL of fuel. I also changed out
> the water seperator and filter under the LP compartment door. I
> removed, refilled, and reinstalled the engine bay fuel filter a
> number of times. Each time priming it with the primer.
>
> After removing the air filter, the bus would start and run if I shot
> and kept shooting starting fluid down the intake. After a while, it
> seemed to be able to sustain on its own. I had to keep the throttle
> pulled back to keep it idling a little over 1200. While the tach
> indicated steady RPM's, the cloud out the back indicated sputtering
> within. Again, after a while it would run on its own, seem to run
> well, but not for long before it would start to sputter. At that
> point, I would remove the new fuel filter and find it to be only
> about 1/4 full of fuel - making me to believe that it died when the
> fuel filter ran out of fuel. When removing the new filter, at the
> point when the seal breaks, it gives out that "shtook" popping sound
> as though it were under heavy suction.
>
> Another interesting thing is that after having been run, I would
> turn the valve on the water seperator. Not only would the liquids
> not just stream out - it would "burble and chug" out the bottom but
> only do so after it looked like it sucked air IN - as though there
> were a natural vacuum.
>
> After having the vacation already wrecked, I need to focus on
> getting it back up and running again ASAP. I read a post on the
> vintagebirds.com site in which a gentleman indicated that he had an
> 81 with a 1/2 tank that acted like he was out of fuel and that he
> added more fuel and it behaved as long as he kept it above the 1/2
> tank level until he did something with a 1/4" copper line.
>
> I'm unclear as to what he did to fix it and cannot contact him.
>
> Is it a common problem for a bird such as mine to ALL OF A SUDDEN
> act like it has a heavy fuel restriction or act like its out of
> gas? My uncle seems to think its acting like it's sucking air into
> the line or there is a restriction.
>
> Please help, I'm desperate. Any help, suggestions, or anything
> would be HUGELY appreciated.
>
> Thanks, John in Flint.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Adria Haynes]

I can see that. Storing it with only 1/4 tank over the winter was
stupid, but didn't really hurt anything because it would have been
too cold to grow any algae. The past month has been pretty hot and
cold both - making water and doing as you said. I didn;t think a
month would be a problem, but still - what a moron. Live and learn,
eh?

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry
wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> One of the first things that comes to mind is algae in the fuel.
Never
> let a diesel tank sit unless it is full. Always use an algaecide
when
> leaving the coach for two weeks or more.
>
> With a partial tank, you have an air space and condensation will
form
> putting water in the tank, especially in your climate. There are
> "bugs" in the diesel and they will grow at the point where the
water
> and diesel meet. If left long enough, they will clog everything.
Best
> thing to do is to use an algaecide whenever you are not going to
use
> the coach. When we are traveling and are refueling every couple
of
> days from a source that has fresh fuel, I skip the algaecide. But
when
> I am returning from a trip and/or will be parked for a while, I
always
> give it a dose of algaecide and fill the tank as full as I can get
it.
>
> You can get algaecide at any truck stop. There are several good
> brands. I happen to currently use Howe's but others are just as
good.
> I learned this the hard way, having to change filters several
times as
> well as treating with algaecide on another coach before it would
run
> right. Since I keep the tank full and treated, I have had no
problems
> in over 15 years.
>
> One other thing: I am not familiar with the BB of that vintage but
> many manufacturers used a sock filter on the pickup tube in the
tank.
> It works great at keeping large stuff out of the fuel line but it
will
> clog with algae and give the symptoms you describe. If BB used
such a
> filter, that could be your problem. Usually treatment with
algaecide
> will correct it - worse case would require dropping the tank for
> cleaning. It is much cheaper and easier to keep the tank full and
> treated.
>
> George Lowry
> '95 WBDA 4203 & GM 4106 (for sale)
> Spearfish, SD
>
> Adria Haynes wrote:
>
> > Gurus,
> >
> > I had been here for a while, took a break, but have been lurking
> > again
> > for a while. I NEED HELP!
> >
> > What I have is a Wanderlodge 35fc with a newer 3208 Cat. We just
> > used it last month for a long weekend that was 2 hours away and
> > everything went excellent. We started the trip with 1/4 tank,
> > filled up, and had 1/2 tank when the trip was over - which how
it
> > has sat for the past
> > month.
> >
> > I fired it up for a few minutes on Thursday night to make sure we
> > were ready to rock for the long weekend. After getting
everything
> > ready to head out - it wouldn't stay running. Per advice from
> > friends and family, I changed the fuel filter at the back of the
> > motor with a brand new one that was FULL of fuel. I also changed
out
> > the water seperator and filter under the LP compartment door. I
> > removed, refilled, and reinstalled the engine bay fuel filter a
> > number of times. Each time priming it with the primer.
> >
> > After removing the air filter, the bus would start and run if I
shot
> > and kept shooting starting fluid down the intake. After a
while, it
> > seemed to be able to sustain on its own. I had to keep the
throttle
> > pulled back to keep it idling a little over 1200. While the
tach
> > indicated steady RPM's, the cloud out the back indicated
sputtering
> > within. Again, after a while it would run on its own, seem to
run
> > well, but not for long before it would start to sputter. At
that
> > point, I would remove the new fuel filter and find it to be only
> > about 1/4 full of fuel - making me to believe that it died when
the
> > fuel filter ran out of fuel. When removing the new filter, at
the
> > point when the seal breaks, it gives out that "shtook" popping
sound
> > as though it were under heavy suction.
> >
> > Another interesting thing is that after having been run, I would
> > turn the valve on the water seperator. Not only would the
liquids
> > not just stream out - it would "burble and chug" out the bottom
but
> > only do so after it looked like it sucked air IN - as though
there
> > were a natural vacuum.
> >
> > After having the vacation already wrecked, I need to focus on
> > getting it back up and running again ASAP. I read a post on the
> > vintagebirds.com site in which a gentleman indicated that he had
an
> > 81 with a 1/2 tank that acted like he was out of fuel and that
he
> > added more fuel and it behaved as long as he kept it above the
1/2
> > tank level until he did something with a 1/4" copper line.
> >
> > I'm unclear as to what he did to fix it and cannot contact him.
> >
> > Is it a common problem for a bird such as mine to ALL OF A
SUDDEN
> > act like it has a heavy fuel restriction or act like its out of
> > gas? My uncle seems to think its acting like it's sucking air
into
> > the line or there is a restriction.
> >
> > Please help, I'm desperate. Any help, suggestions, or anything
> > would be HUGELY appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks, John in Flint.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Jeff Miller]

Heed well what George said about keeping the tank full and
maintaining proper algaecide levels. Algae in a tank is a big problem.

Your comment about the heavy suction at the secondary/engine fuel
filter indicates a pretty solid blockage upstream. As you didn't
mention any changes other than the fuel filters, and it sounds
upstream of the engine filter, look at the Racor filter system (the
one next to the LP tank). It also has suction? The chamber around the
filter element is the "in" side, so probably further upstream still.

Check the new Racor filter to see if it has a lot of slime/algae on
it. There is a hole in the top of the plastic filter element that can
be popped open to bypass the filter in an emergency, but I wouldn't
recommend it if you have a serious algae problem.

The next step IMO would be to detach the inlet hose on the RACOR
filter, open the tank's fuel fill cap, and blow some low-pressure air
through the fuel line back to the tank. Listen for bubbles through
the OPEN fuel filler.

If this clears the line, and you have an algae problem, your troubles
are far from over, but at least you've found the source.

- Jeff Miller

[Jeff Miller]

Another point, don't run the 3208 with a fuel starvation problem. Ether
is bad for the engine (starting fluid), and running the fuel injection
pump can be an expensive proposition as it uses the fuel for lubricant.

- Jeff Miller