80 bird with 3208 cat keeps stalling - PLEASE help

[Adria Haynes]

Yup, the Racor also seems to have suction. What you are saying
makes sense to back flush the line. I'm just wondering how much
pressure is "low" and how long do I give it the shot?

How much algae solution should I add?

Anybody have any thoughts as to that other situation that seemed
similar? The text from that link I mentioned is as follows below.

Don't get me wrong, I totally trust all of your shared expertises
and I'm all over the algae situation, but I might as well cover as
many bases and options as I can while I'm at it.

***************************************
"Line for fuel: I have an 81 35 fc that has seen some rough days but
slowly I'm going over different things. All new water lines this
season. But the one thing that was a real nite mare was the fuel
problems. I got stranded in the middle of a Big Bend in Texas. The
coach acted like it was out of fuel tho the guage ,which was always
correct, said I still had a half tank.The closest garage said they
would show up for three grand. I had my tow along and with a few
trips was able to dumped in about 15 gallons and after that never
let the tank get below half and made it home fine. I found out that
the older coaches had 3/4" black pipe for the fuel pick up and that
they can rust and get holes in them. The solution was to solder 1/4"
copper line onto the end of the elbow that enters the tank. I cut
these about 1" short of the bottom of the tank and put them inside
of the old black pipe. Now if I could find someone to repaint my
bird. The one bid I got so far was a little under ten grand. Ouch!
Ted Harms"

***********

I can't thank you guys enough already.

John

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
wrote:
> Heed well what George said about keeping the tank full and
> maintaining proper algaecide levels. Algae in a tank is a big
problem.
>
> Your comment about the heavy suction at the secondary/engine fuel
> filter indicates a pretty solid blockage upstream. As you didn't
> mention any changes other than the fuel filters, and it sounds
> upstream of the engine filter, look at the Racor filter system
(the
> one next to the LP tank). It also has suction? The chamber around
the
> filter element is the "in" side, so probably further upstream
still.
>
> Check the new Racor filter to see if it has a lot of slime/algae
on
> it. There is a hole in the top of the plastic filter element that
can
> be popped open to bypass the filter in an emergency, but I
wouldn't
> recommend it if you have a serious algae problem.
>
> The next step IMO would be to detach the inlet hose on the RACOR
> filter, open the tank's fuel fill cap, and blow some low-pressure
air
> through the fuel line back to the tank. Listen for bubbles through
> the OPEN fuel filler.
>
> If this clears the line, and you have an algae problem, your
troubles
> are far from over, but at least you've found the source.
>
> - Jeff Miller

[Adria Haynes]

Right, I wasn't crazy about doing it either.

We originaly thought that it had just somehow lost its prime. My uncle
told me to just do that as a way to get it running and keep it running -
for up to a few minutes max - until the engine could get over itself
and regain its prime. It mostly was run under its own power since
everytime it died, I would remove and refill the fuel filter - so I
don't think I hurt anything long term.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
wrote:
> Another point, don't run the 3208 with a fuel starvation problem.
Ether
> is bad for the engine (starting fluid), and running the fuel
injection
> pump can be an expensive proposition as it uses the fuel for
lubricant.
>
> - Jeff Miller

[Tom Warner]

After reading your original email and all of the responses I believe you
have a lot of crud in the bottom of your tank. As long as you kept the
fuel tank fairly fuel it never lets the crud get into your lines but when
you pulled it down to 1/4 you stirred things up. If you take the inspection
plate off the top of the tank where the fuel lines run and shine a strong
light down into the tank and dip a wooden rod into it to the bottom and
move it slightly then pull it up you will see what I mean.

Or you can take the drain plug out of the bottom of the tank, put a large
pan underneath and more then likely the hole will be completely plugged.
Drive thru it with a screwdriver and you will see the crap come out.

If you are near a Marina they have services to filter and condition the
fuel to get rid of it, or you can do it yourself.

If you need more info holler

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NYAt 03:58 PM 5/31/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Right, I wasn't crazy about doing it either.
>
>We originaly thought that it had just somehow lost its prime. My uncle
>told me to just do that as a way to get it running and keep it running -
> for up to a few minutes max - until the engine could get over itself
>and regain its prime. It mostly was run under its own power since
>everytime it died, I would remove and refill the fuel filter - so I
>don't think I hurt anything long term.
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
>wrote:
> > Another point, don't run the 3208 with a fuel starvation problem.
>Ether
> > is bad for the engine (starting fluid), and running the fuel
>injection
> > pump can be an expensive proposition as it uses the fuel for
>lubricant.
> >
> > - Jeff Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[erniecarpet@...]

In a message dated 5/31/2005 2:55:08 PM Central Standard Time,
mrbeebody@... writes:


> So there is a water seperator at the rear of the engine

That is what makes each bird unique. Some have them, others have had them
removed. On my Detroit- there USE to be 2 fuel filters on the rear of the
engine-
I only have 1 now. Others have 2- I have 2 alternators- others have just one.
Why- don't know. It's been fun to figure these old machines out, though.
Ernie 83PT40 in texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Adria Haynes]

Another rookie question - can you get to or even see the top of the
tank without dropping it? If so, how?

Another problem is that even at half full, I'm not to hip on pulling
a drain plug as I don't have a safe way to catch what I think is
something like 75 gallons of fuel. I don't have a pan big enough.

I do remember seeing that the initial fluid I drained from the
seperator was somewhat black and gunky looking.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> After reading your original email and all of the responses I
believe you
> have a lot of crud in the bottom of your tank. As long as you
kept the
> fuel tank fairly fuel it never lets the crud get into your lines
but when
> you pulled it down to 1/4 you stirred things up. If you take the
inspection
> plate off the top of the tank where the fuel lines run and shine
a strong
> light down into the tank and dip a wooden rod into it to the
bottom and
> move it slightly then pull it up you will see what I mean.
>
> Or you can take the drain plug out of the bottom of the tank, put
a large
> pan underneath and more then likely the hole will be completely
plugged.
> Drive thru it with a screwdriver and you will see the crap come
out.
>
> If you are near a Marina they have services to filter and
condition the
> fuel to get rid of it, or you can do it yourself.
>
> If you need more info holler
>
> Tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NYAt 03:58 PM 5/31/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> >Right, I wasn't crazy about doing it either.
> >
> >We originaly thought that it had just somehow lost its prime. My
uncle
> >told me to just do that as a way to get it running and keep it
running -
> > for up to a few minutes max - until the engine could get over
itself
> >and regain its prime. It mostly was run under its own power since
> >everytime it died, I would remove and refill the fuel filter - so
I
> >don't think I hurt anything long term.
> >
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"

> >wrote:
> > > Another point, don't run the 3208 with a fuel starvation
problem.
> >Ether
> > > is bad for the engine (starting fluid), and running the fuel
> >injection
> > > pump can be an expensive proposition as it uses the fuel for
> >lubricant.
> > >
> > > - Jeff Miller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Adria Haynes]

So is your point that there won't actually be that much fuel going in
and being drained from the bottom, it will just be all the junk?

My hands were covered with fuel for HOURS on Friday and being a garage
guy - have seen their share of nastiness. My hands aren't scared.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@a... wrote:
> Go to a paint store and buy a 5 gallon bucket. When you remove the
drain
> plug, you can see how much fuel is going into the bucket. Your hands
will "love"
> you for the immersion. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mrdonut12]

I'm with Jeff on this. It's not the pickup tube. If it was the
pickup tube, there wouldn't be the strong vacuum you have in the Racor.
Do as Jeff said and blow out the line from the Racor to the fuel
tank. That will tell you if you have a problem with algae or not.
The bottom of the tank has a drain valve, not a plug, so don't
worry about having to catch 75 gallons. You can shut it off when you
want.
You could also blow air into the tank and catch what comes out of
the loose line in a jug... I think the drain valve is better to use.
The stuff you want to add to the fuel is Howe's diesel treatment.
I add it every single fill and it doesn't cost a lot. The guys in
the diesel shop down the street said to use it year round, they must
know about diesels. ;o)
Hope this helps, keep us posted.
George Witt
81 FC 35
Lincoln, Nebraska

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Adria Haynes"
<mrbeebody@n...> wrote:
> Another rookie question - can you get to or even see the top of the
> tank without dropping it? If so, how?
>
> Another problem is that even at half full, I'm not to hip on pulling
> a drain plug as I don't have a safe way to catch what I think is
> something like 75 gallons of fuel. I don't have a pan big enough.
>
> I do remember seeing that the initial fluid I drained from the
> seperator was somewhat black and gunky looking.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> > After reading your original email and all of the responses I
> believe you
> > have a lot of crud in the bottom of your tank. As long as you
> kept the
> > fuel tank fairly fuel it never lets the crud get into your lines
> but when
> > you pulled it down to 1/4 you stirred things up. If you take the
> inspection
> > plate off the top of the tank where the fuel lines run and shine
> a strong
> > light down into the tank and dip a wooden rod into it to the
> bottom and
> > move it slightly then pull it up you will see what I mean.
> >
> > Or you can take the drain plug out of the bottom of the tank, put
> a large
> > pan underneath and more then likely the hole will be completely
> plugged.
> > Drive thru it with a screwdriver and you will see the crap come
> out.
> >
> > If you are near a Marina they have services to filter and
> condition the
> > fuel to get rid of it, or you can do it yourself.
> >
> > If you need more info holler
> >
> > Tom
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon Center,NYAt 03:58 PM 5/31/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Right, I wasn't crazy about doing it either.
> > >
> > >We originaly thought that it had just somehow lost its prime. My
> uncle
> > >told me to just do that as a way to get it running and keep it
> running -
> > > for up to a few minutes max - until the engine could get over
> itself
> > >and regain its prime. It mostly was run under its own power since
> > >everytime it died, I would remove and refill the fuel filter - so
> I
> > >don't think I hurt anything long term.
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
>
> > >wrote:
> > > > Another point, don't run the 3208 with a fuel starvation
> problem.
> > >Ether
> > > > is bad for the engine (starting fluid), and running the fuel
> > >injection
> > > > pump can be an expensive proposition as it uses the fuel for
> > >lubricant.
> > > >
> > > > - Jeff Miller
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

[Tom Warner]

Ernie I have a strong suspicion that when he opens the drain valve nothing
will come out. Of course its not a good idea to look up into where the hole
is to investigate for you might get a face full of diesel. But if
the bottom of the tank is loaded with crud as many of these old coaches
are, then you are going to have to drive something up thru it to get the
fuel to start. Its not all going to come running out since the tank is
really not that deep but it is long and wide.

Tom

At 01:15 PM 5/31/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Go to a paint store and buy a 5 gallon bucket. When you remove the drain
>plug, you can see how much fuel is going into the bucket. Your hands will
>"love"
>you for the immersion. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Tom Warner]

If you do find crud in the bottom I would install a stop cock with a tubing
connection so you can turn off and on the fuel flow. Then connect an
electric fuel pump to the stop cock and run the other side back into the
fuel tank after going thru a fine filter. you will in effect recycle and
clean all of the fuel about the same as what the marinas used but of course
on a smaller scale.

Tom
1982 FC35\
Vernon Center,NY

At 05:27 PM 5/31/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>So is your point that there won't actually be that much fuel going in
>and being drained from the bottom, it will just be all the junk?
>
>My hands were covered with fuel for HOURS on Friday and being a garage
>guy - have seen their share of nastiness. My hands aren't scared.
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@a... wrote:
> > Go to a paint store and buy a 5 gallon bucket. When you remove the
>drain
> > plug, you can see how much fuel is going into the bucket. Your hands
>will "love"
> > you for the immersion. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[John Stiles]

As Tom mentions here, when the petcock drain on the bottom of the
fuel tank is opened chances are that nothing will come out.
Something that you can easily make with either a welding rod or coat
hanger wire will easily assist you. Take the wire and bend it 90
degrees and leave around 6" or more on each "leg". With this bent
wire you can push it up through the petcock drain hole without your
hand being in the flow of fuel when the gunk loosens. This won't
totally clean your tank but at least you may get an idea of how much
of a gunk problem you may have. As someone else mentioned a bucket
is sufficient. The drain petcock is small enough that the flow
isn't that great. You may also get lucky "shock treating" your fuel
with a biocide. Racor brand biocide for example lists on the bottle
the quantity to use for standard use and how much to use as a shock
treatment. This will of course mean that you may have multiple
changes of Racor filters before you get a handle on things. It may
be worth a try...

Best of luck,

John Stiles
1980 33FC
"My Navion"



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Ernie I have a strong suspicion that when he opens the drain valve
nothing
> will come out. Of course its not a good idea to look up into where
the hole
> is to investigate for you might get a face full of
diesel. But if
> the bottom of the tank is loaded with crud as many of these old
coaches
> are, then you are going to have to drive something up thru it to
get the
> fuel to start. Its not all going to come running out since the
tank is
> really not that deep but it is long and wide.
>
> Tom
>
> At 01:15 PM 5/31/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> >Go to a paint store and buy a 5 gallon bucket. When you remove
the drain
> >plug, you can see how much fuel is going into the bucket. Your
hands will
> >"love"
> >you for the immersion. Ernie-83PT40 in Texas
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >