What is the reason for the left front shock mount failures on 90's buses?

[Pete Masterson]

Eric,

I was at CCW Riverside the end of May 2008. When did you have your mount fixed?

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Mar 10, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Eric Perplies wrote:

I do believe that one of the issues with the failure on the shock mounts is the quality/mass of the steel in the frame of the coach. The center of the upper left shock mount is about 2"- 3" from the edge of the modestly thick frame. The webs or gussets on my coach had to be turned in the "hold water" position to keep them from projecting above the frame member. I didn't measure the thickness of the frame steel but I would guess it's 1/4" +/-. But even if the problem is the location/thickness of the upper mount it doesn't answer the question about why this failure has ALWAYS happened on the left shock mount.

The right shock mount is built the same way. The right shock mount should be extended even more because of the camber in the road coupled with the leveling system on the bus. Finally, road damage is typically much more prevalent on the right side of the road. What's up with the left side??

Just too make my previous discussion complete. (My post on the Don's shock mount post 'disappeared'. A regular occurrence for me on this site.) When CCW repaired my upper shock mount they welded a 1/2" x 6" x 8" plate to the damaged area on my frame. They drilled a hole in the plate to accommodate the air line. They were on the telephone a lot with Ft Valley engineers discussing the problem. It took them 4 days of telephone conversations before they started the work. But it was very difficult to get CCW to relate what there discussions were except to say "we were trying to find out from Ft Valley how to repair the problem."

Eric Perplies
96' 42' WBWL

[David Brady]

Eric,

You need to climb under your coach and take a look at the difference
between the curb side and steer side shock mounts. The curbside
mount is part of the panhard rod and is stronger.

Your frame c-channel should be 10 7/8" x 3.5" x 5/16". The plate of
steel that cracked is part of the Ridewell system and is 1/4" thick.
On your coach this plate also serves to support the upper spring
perches for both air springs.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----

From: Eric Perplies
Sent: Mar 10, 2009 8:26 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: What is the reason for the left front shock mount failures on 90's buses?

I do believe that one of the issues with the failure on the shock mounts is the quality/mass of the steel in the frame of the coach. The center of the upper left shock mount is about 2"- 3" from the edge of the modestly thick frame. The webs or gussets on my coach had to be turned in the "hold water" position to keep them from projecting above the frame member. I didn't measure the thickness of the frame steel but I would guess it's 1/4" +/-. But even if the problem is the location/thickness of the upper mount it doesn't answer the question about why this failure has ALWAYS happened on the left shock mount.



The right shock mount is built the same way. The right shock mount should be extended even more because of the camber in the road coupled with the leveling system on the bus. Finally, road damage is typically much more prevalent on the right side of the road. What's up with the left side??



Just too make my previous discussion complete. (My post on the Don's shock mount post 'disappeared'. A regular occurrence for me on this site.) When CCW repaired my upper shock mount they welded a 1/2" x 6" x 8" plate to the damaged area on my frame. They drilled a hole in the plate to accommodate the air line. They were on the telephone a lot with Ft Valley engineers discussing the problem. It took them 4 days of telephone conversations before they started the work. But it was very difficult to get CCW to relate what there discussions were except to say "we were trying to find out from Ft Valley how to repair the problem."



Eric Perplies

96' 42' WBWL

[Don Bradner]

Have you looked carefully at your right shock mount? Mine is not built the same.
I posted this picture to show how different it is:
http://www.arcatapet.net/image/goodmount.jpg

Beyond that I can only reiterate: it is NOT the frame we are talking about. This
is a bolt-on addition to the frame that is part of the axle assembly.

On 3/11/2009 at 12:26 AM Eric Perplies wrote:

>I do believe that one of the issues with the failure on the shock mounts
>is the quality/mass of the steel in the frame of the coach. The center of
>the upper left shock mount is about 2"- 3" from the edge of the modestly
>thick frame. The webs or gussets on my coach had to be turned in the
>"hold water" position to keep them from projecting above the frame member.
> I didn't measure the thickness of the frame steel but I would guess it's
>1/4" +/-. But even if the problem is the location/thickness of the upper
>mount it doesn't answer the question about why this failure has ALWAYS
>happened on the left shock mount.
>
>The right shock mount is built the same way. The right shock mount should
>be extended even more because of the camber in the road coupled with the
>leveling system on the bus. Finally, road damage is typically much more
>prevalent on the right side of the road. What's up with the left side??
>
>Just too make my previous discussion complete. (My post on the Don's
>shock mount post 'disappeared'. A regular occurrence for me on this site.)
> When CCW repaired my upper shock mount they welded a 1/2" x 6" x 8" plate
>to the damaged area on my frame. They drilled a hole in the plate to
>accommodate the air line. They were on the telephone a lot with Ft Valley
>engineers discussing the problem. It took them 4 days of telephone
>conversations before they started the work. But it was very difficult to
>get CCW to relate what there discussions were except to say "we were
>trying to find out from Ft Valley how to repair the problem."
>
>Eric Perplies
>96' 42' WBWL
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Eric Perplies]

First, CCW repaired my upper left shock mount in February of 08. This was the
first one that they repaired.

While at CCW we did thoroughly inspect the right front shock mount. It sure
looked identical to my left shock mount. Dimensionally, I can't be sure. After
all when you measure the shock mount I don't have a clue what you measure it
with respect to. I had both shocks replaced and there was no damage at all to
the right shock mount nor to the shock absorber.

One important factor that I neglected to mention. My left front shock what shot
when I found the failed shock mount. It could be compressed only with the
greatest of effort. If hitting a hole had caused my left shock absorber to fail
that certainly could have been a significant factor in the failure. That
singularity would have eventually caused the piece of material on my frame to
fail. It is still the chicken or the egg question: If the shock failed first
what would have caused the neck of the shock to have bent? I'll see if I can
find my photos of the damage, then I see if I can figure out how to post those
pictures. You'll be able to see the "tweaked" neck on the shock.

I wonder, did you others have a broken shock absorber when you found the damaged
shock mount?

I'm sure you are right Dave. The part that failed on my rig may well have been
made by Ridewell. It probably is inaccurate to call it the frame. (Although it
sure looks like the frame to me, LOL.) Thanks for recommending doing a search
on "Shock mount". Over the last several years I probably have read all of them.

Eric Perlies
96' 42' WBWL

[Don Bradner]

Yes, at least my shock (and I think Pete's) were bent. The cause in my case is
obvious - as the metal bent outward after the first break, the angle became too
great, and "crumpled" the end of the shock.

In other words, the damage to the shock definitely came as a result of the metal
tearing/bending, not vice-versa.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

On 3/11/2009 at 2:00 AM Eric Perplies wrote:

>First, CCW repaired my upper left shock mount in February of 08. This
>was the first one that they repaired.
>
>While at CCW we did thoroughly inspect the right front shock mount. It
>sure looked identical to my left shock mount. Dimensionally, I can't be
>sure. After all when you measure the shock mount I don't have a clue what
>you measure it with respect to. I had both shocks replaced and there was
>no damage at all to the right shock mount nor to the shock absorber.
>
>One important factor that I neglected to mention. My left front shock
>what shot when I found the failed shock mount. It could be compressed
>only with the greatest of effort. If hitting a hole had caused my left
>shock absorber to fail that certainly could have been a significant factor
>in the failure. That singularity would have eventually caused the piece
>of material on my frame to fail. It is still the chicken or the egg
>question: If the shock failed first what would have caused the neck of
>the shock to have bent? I'll see if I can find my photos of the damage,
>then I see if I can figure out how to post those pictures. You'll be able
>to see the "tweaked" neck on the shock.
>
>I wonder, did you others have a broken shock absorber when you found the
>damaged shock mount?
>
>I'm sure you are right Dave. The part that failed on my rig may well have
>been made by Ridewell. It probably is inaccurate to call it the frame.
>(Although it sure looks like the frame to me, LOL.) Thanks for
>recommending doing a search on "Shock mount". Over the last several years
>I probably have read all of them.
>
>Eric Perlies
>96' 42' WBWL

[Eric Perplies]

I uploaded pictures of my left and right shocks in the photo section titled:
1996 PT42 Scheherazade

They are all labeled.

[Don Bradner]

OK!! I assume you have the original of that right side in higher resolution.
Blow it up and look at the top between the shock and the airline.

Now look again at my picture of the right side at
http://www.arcatapet.net/goodmount.jpg

If I didn't know what I was looking for in your low-res picture I might not see
it, but I do know, so it is clear that your right side is beefed up just like
mine is!

On 3/11/2009 at 3:14 AM Eric Perplies wrote:

>I uploaded pictures of my left and right shocks in the photo section
>titled: 1996 PT42 Scheherazade
>
>They are all labeled.

[Kurt Horvath]

The red lines are the new welds.

This peice of steel is not the frame, it is bolted to the frame, now it's welded to the frame.

In my case once we dropped the coach down the break just fit back together, with a little help we just rewelded it.

I like your repair better. Looks like they dida nice job fixing your coach.

[url=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/photos/album/554440092/pic/1334472942/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc][/url]

Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" wrote:
>
> OK!! I assume you have the original of that right side in higher resolution. Blow it up and look at the top between the shock and the airline.
>
> Now look again at my picture of the right side at http://www.arcatapet.net/goodmount.jpg
>
> If I didn't know what I was looking for in your low-res picture I might not see it, but I do know, so it is clear that your right side is beefed up just like mine is!
>
> On 3/11/2009 at 3:14 AM Eric Perplies wrote:
>
> >I uploaded pictures of my left and right shocks in the photo section
> >titled: 1996 PT42 Scheherazade
> >
> >They are all labeled.
>

[Pete Masterson]

My shock was apparently in good working order. However, when the shock mount failed, it bent the upper end of the shock (where it attaches to the mount), and we had to install a new shock.

Judging from the apparent age and condition of the shocks on the coach, I suspect the previous owner might have replaced them shortly after he acquired the coach. (The PO full-timed in it for about 2+ years before moving to a coach with slides...)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Mar 10, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Eric Perplies wrote:

First, CCW repaired my upper left shock mount in February of 08. This was the first one that they repaired.

While at CCW we did thoroughly inspect the right front shock mount. It sure looked identical to my left shock mount. Dimensionally, I can't be sure. After all when you measure the shock mount I don't have a clue what you measure it with respect to. I had both shocks replaced and there was no damage at all to the right shock mount nor to the shock absorber.

One important factor that I neglected to mention. My left front shock what shot when I found the failed shock mount. It could be compressed only with the greatest of effort. If hitting a hole had caused my left shock absorber to fail that certainly could have been a significant factor in the failure. That singularity would have eventually caused the piece of material on my frame to fail. It is still the chicken or the egg question: If the shock failed first what would have caused the neck of the shock to have bent? I'll see if I can find my photos of the damage, then I see if I can figure out how to post those pictures. You'll be able to see the "tweaked" neck on the shock.

I wonder, did you others have a broken shock absorber when you found the damaged shock mount?

I'm sure you are right Dave. The part that failed on my rig may well have been made by Ridewell. It probably is inaccurate to call it the frame. (Although it sure looks like the frame to me, LOL.) Thanks for recommending doing a search on "Shock mount". Over the last several years I probably have read all of them.

Eric Perlies
96' 42' WBWL

[Pete Masterson]

The failure is quite similar to how mine failed. But you ended up with much less metal on the torn out section (than I did), so that might suggest why they used the plate to make the repair, instead of the procedure followed on my coach.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Mar 10, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Eric Perplies wrote:

I uploaded pictures of my left and right shocks in the photo section titled: 1996 PT42 Scheherazade

They are all labeled.