Back to batterys

[Jon]

Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.

I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I was
wondering why this happens?

About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones. The
ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two did the
same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a certain
age. Anybody know????????
Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.

[Pete Masterson]

It's not the batteries -- it's the battery chargers. Get rid of the old battery boilers and get a modern, 3-stage charger. Iota makes a nice one. The inverters now all have them, too (if you need a new inverter).

With flooded batteries, you need to check the water level frequently (every 2 weeks to 4 weeks) -- you can get automatic waterers (Steve Birtles has 'em I think) that will keep the water filled up (you've got to keep the reservoir full). The "battery boiler" chargers should be on a timer, let 'em run about 2 hours per day when in storage.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Mar 10, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Jon wrote:

Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.

I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I was wondering why this happens?

About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones. The ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two did the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a certain age. Anybody know????????
Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

To begin with, it would be helpful to know what Coach you have, FC?PT? year
and so forth. Do you still have the old boilers installed?
Batteries are like filters and should be changed as sets for optimum use.
When batts are tied together, the bank is only as good as the weakest one.
In fact, 2 new batts, 2 old, one of the old batts has a single bad cell.
The new bats will go to the level of the batt with the bad cell and in the
long run be hurt because of it.

These are deep cycle units and the plates inside, over time, will only take
so many discharge/charge cycles until the material holding the charge
deplete and fall from the plate to a space in the bottom of the
batt for that purpose. When this space fills, the lead sulphate will touch
and short, internally, the battery and die.

Remember the old batts will try to keep up with the new ones and actually
bring the new ones to the level of the old and the new ones will not regain
what has been lost.

Gassing takes place when the battery is at full charge state and the
charger does not sense to shut down and go to float voltage. And that is
what a smart charger like the Truecharge 40 does for you, it lengthens the
life of the batteries by being a 3 stage charger.


Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma

At 12:31 AM 3/11/2009 +0000, you wrote:
>Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.
>
>I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I
>was wondering why this happens?
>
>About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new
>ones. The ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the
>other two did the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when
>they reach a certain age. Anybody know????????
>Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.
>
>

[Gary Smith]

Jon,

If all 4 batteries are 6 volt deep cycle, you should replace the full set at the same time, not part of them now, part later. Batteries of different ages don't accept or hold a charge equally well, and the weakest battery in thegroup will pull down the performance of the best batteries in the group. The old weakest link in the chain theory works quite well with batteries. You didn't mention the age of your BB, but the battery charging technology of today is vastly improved over 10 years back, and light years ahead of 20 year old technology. You will often see folks here referring to their chargers as "battery boilers". That is not a term of endearment.

Gary

SOB

----- Original Message -----

From: "jipjob@yahoo.com"

To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:31 PM

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Back to batterys

Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.

I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I was wondering why this happens?

About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones. The ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two did the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a certain age. Anybody know????????
Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3924 (20090310) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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[Jon]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
wrote:
>
> To begin with, it would be helpful to know what Coach you have, FC?PT?
year
> and so forth. Do you still have the old boilers
installed?
> Batteries are like filters and should be changed as sets for optimum
use.
> When batts are tied together, the bank is only as good as the weakest
one.
> In fact, 2 new batts, 2 old, one of the old batts has a single bad
cell.
> The new bats will go to the level of the batt with the bad cell and in
the
> long run be hurt because of it.
>
> These are deep cycle units and the plates inside, over time, will only
take
> so many discharge/charge cycles until the material holding the charge
> deplete and fall from the plate to a space in the bottom
of the
> batt for that purpose. When this space fills, the lead sulphate will
touch
> and short, internally, the battery and die.
>
> Remember the old batts will try to keep up with the new ones and
actually
> bring the new ones to the level of the old and the new ones will not
regain
> what has been lost.
>
> Gassing takes place when the battery is at full charge state and the
> charger does not sense to shut down and go to float voltage. And that
is
> what a smart charger like the Truecharge 40 does for you, it lengthens
the
> life of the batteries by being a 3 stage charger.
>
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> 84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
> Duncan, Oklahoma
>
> At 12:31 AM 3/11/2009 +0000, you wrote:
> >Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.
> >
> >I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but
I
> >was wondering why this happens?
> >
> >About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new
> >ones. The ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now
the
> >other two did the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water
when
> >they reach a certain age. Anybody know????????
> >Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.
> >
> >



Steve Anderson gave me a 60 amp true charger and I installed that but I
think it kind of on the dumm side as I don't think it will turn it self
oft. I tried doing that turn your charger oft thing and all it
accomplished after was a dead battey. But maybe the solution is just to
get to more batterys to match up those two I replace a few months ago
and this may make the true charger smart again. Jon
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

As a battery ages the internal resistance increases. This resistance creates heat when there current flowing during charging or discharging and this heat boils the water out of the electrolyte. This is why you have charging problems and shorted life in a mixed set of batteries. You want all batteries in a set the same age and size.

- Chuck Wheeler-

1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:32 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Back to batterys

Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.

I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I was wondering why this happens?

About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones. The ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two did the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a certain age. Anybody know????????
Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.

[Jon]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Wheeler" wrote:
>
> As a battery ages the internal resistance increases. This resistance
> creates heat when there current flowing during charging or discharging and
> this heat boils the water out of the electrolyte. This is why you have
> charging problems and shorted life in a mixed set of batteries. You want
> all batteries in a set the same age and size.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> 1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
> Well its to bad that I bought two new batterys six months ago and replaced the
old ones. Now I'm going down to buy the second set for 100 dollars per battery.
I went out today after yesterday filling up the bad batterys with water and
today they were down below the plates. So oft to Budget Batterys to spend a
little hard earned cash.
I hope that this difference in age will not affect the battery life of all of
all four as I'm not a cash machine! Anyway got to do what a guy got to do!

Jon
1978 Wanderlodge
Bremerton Washington
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:32 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Back to batterys
>
>
>
> Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.
>
> I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I was
> wondering why this happens?
>
> About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones. The
> ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two did
> the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a
> certain age. Anybody know????????
> Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.
>

[Pete Masterson]

Jon,

When you first inquired about 2 batteries, I assumed that was all the batteries you have. When batteries are connected in parallel or in series (or both), then they MUST be identical in all respects -- including age. If the age difference is a few days or a couple of weeks, then it might be OK -- but once a batteries have gone through 2 or 3 charge-discharge cycles, then the older batteries will not respond to the charger in the same way as new batteries (that have not gone through several charge-discharge cycles). You'll end up with shortened battery life and you'll end up spending more later to replace batteries again.

See <http://www.phrannie.org/phredex.html> and read article #5 Batteries and Other Electrical Stuff.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Mar 11, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Jon wrote:

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", "Chuck Wheeler" wrote:

As a battery ages the internal resistance increases. This resistance

creates heat when there current flowing during charging or discharging and

this heat boils the water out of the electrolyte. This is why you have

charging problems and shorted life in a mixed set of batteries. You want

all batteries in a set the same age and size.

- Chuck Wheeler-

1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

<snip>

I hope that this difference in age will not affect the battery life of all of all four as I'm not a cash machine! Anyway got to do what a guy got to do!

Jon
1978 Wanderlodge
Bremerton Washington

[Chuck Wheeler]

6 months is close enough in age that I don't think you will have a problem. Also on our older BB it is pretty easy to totally disconnect all batteries. I do not leave our batteries on charge when the BB is stored. I turn the charger on the day before I pick it up for a trip, or once a month if we do not use it for awhile. I have 7+ years on the current Trojans. If you have the original BB chargers they will ruin any battery if left on.

- Chuck Wheeler-

1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Back to batterys

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Chuck Wheeler" .> wrote:
>
> As a battery ages the internal resistance increases. This resistance
> creates heat when there current flowing during charging or discharging and
> this heat boils the water out of the electrolyte. This is why you have
> charging problems and shorted life in a mixed set of batteries. You want
> all batteries in a set the same age and size.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> 1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
> Well its to bad that I bought two new batterys six months ago and replaced the old ones. Now I'm going down to buy the second set for 100 dollars per battery. I went out today after yesterday filling up the bad batterys with water and today they were down below the plates. So oft to Budget Batterys to spend a little hard earned cash.
I hope that this difference in age will not affect the battery life of all of all four as I'm not a cash machine! Anyway got to do what a guy got to do!

Jon
1978 Wanderlodge
Bremerton Washington
> From: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> [mailto:"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"] On Behalf Of Jon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:32 PM
> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Back to batterys
>
>
>
> Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.
>
> I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I was
> wondering why this happens?
>
> About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones. The
> ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two did
> the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a
> certain age. Anybody know????????
> Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.
>

[jburgessx2]

"If you have the original BB chargers they will ruin any battery if left on."

Does this count for full timing as well?



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Wheeler" wrote:
>
> 6 months is close enough in age that I don't think you will have a problem.
> Also on our older BB it is pretty easy to totally disconnect all batteries.
> I do not leave our batteries on charge when the BB is stored. I turn the
> charger on the day before I pick it up for a trip, or once a month if we do
> not use it for awhile. I have 7+ years on the current Trojans. If you have
> the original BB chargers they will ruin any battery if left on.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> 1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:15 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Back to batterys
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Wheeler" wrote:
> >
> > As a battery ages the internal resistance increases. This resistance
> > creates heat when there current flowing during charging or discharging and
> > this heat boils the water out of the electrolyte. This is why you have
> > charging problems and shorted life in a mixed set of batteries. You want
> > all batteries in a set the same age and size.
> >
> > - Chuck Wheeler-
> > 1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
> >
> >
> > _____
> > Well its to bad that I bought two new batterys six months ago and replaced
> the old ones. Now I'm going down to buy the second set for 100 dollars per
> battery. I went out today after yesterday filling up the bad batterys with
> water and today they were down below the plates. So oft to Budget Batterys
> to spend a little hard earned cash.
> I hope that this difference in age will not affect the battery life of all
> of all four as I'm not a cash machine! Anyway got to do what a guy got to
> do!
>
> Jon
> 1978 Wanderlodge
> Bremerton Washington
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:32 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Back to batterys
> >
> >
> >
> > Got a real simple question and won't go into much detail.
> >
> > I'm going to replace two of my 6 volt batterys in the near future but I
> was
> > wondering why this happens?
> >
> > About six months ago I replaced two of the four batterys with new ones.
> The
> > ones that I replaced would boil out in a few weeks and now the other two
> did
> > the same thing. What makes a battery boil out of water when they reach a
> > certain age. Anybody know????????
> > Oh yes the two that I replace are just fine.
> >
>