Old or Older?

[richafranco]

Hello,
I just found this group and I have a newbie kind of question. Is it better to
buy a newer Bluebird, mid-to late 80's coach or get an older coach and upgrade
it to what we need? I like the vintage look of the older Birds. We may live in
it for a year or so.
Thanks,
Rich
http://www.richfrancophotography.com

[Pete Masterson]

Let's see, with about a thousand owners on this list, you'll get, oh, perhaps 886 different opinions....

First, for long-term living, you'll probably find that those with the most storage options are a plus and longer is probably better. Note, we've taken several trips of up to 5 months at a time -- semi-full time living.

When I narrowed my choice to a Blue Bird (after first deciding that I wanted something a lot safer than a plastic palace -- and after looking at a few bus conversions), I went through the specs on the Vintage Birdsweb site

<http://www.vintagebirds.com> and started to formulate the specifications I'd prefer.

For example, I discovered that prior to (about) 1980, air suspension wasn't used. Well, I felt that air suspension, while more complex, was likely to be more comfortable. (My experience with heavy equipment having been in the Army where I sometimes wondered if the trucks I drove or rode in even had springs.)

Going through the years, I picked up on "nice to have" issues. (e.g. AquaHot heat is nice.) The extra width of the wide body adds nearly 20 square feet to the interior of a 40' coach -- also nice. And so on. You mention that you like the classic look -- that essentially limits you to the narrow body models, since the 1989 introduction of the wide body also introduced fiberglass end caps and a 'new' look. (I'd have to look, but the last of the narrow bodies were sold in 1990 or 1991 -- I think a 36' may have been available a year or two longer. (Check he Vintage Birds web site.)

Another factor is to look at your budget. I decided on "newer is better" and my budget was telling me that "older is cheaper." Eventually, I selected a 1995 that I got for a decent price. Your budget/desire ratio may be different.

Whatever year you decide on, it's wise to leave aside $5,000 or $10,000 in funding for repairs/upgrades you want. Hopefully, you won't need to spend it, but even a well cared for coach may have surprises.

For example, since purchasing my coach. In the first 6 months I installed/repaired:

Two new rooftop ACs (one was bad when I inspected the coach -- the other had an "encounter" with a tree branch on my maiden trip home.)

New radiator core (I experienced some heating issues enroute home.)

Refurbish and recharge chassis AC system (in hindsight, probably a waste of money.)

These immediate issues ended up costing about $7,000. The radiator core replacement was about $4,500. Roof ACs were about $1600. Chassis AC was nearly $1000. (Prices around the country vary, I am located in a high-cost area.)

Later on:

Align wheels, replace drag link (part of steering) and steering damper system (that was broken).

New bamboo wood floor (do it yourself) and some other redecorating.

new desk, filing cabinets (removed two sofas).

new muffler

fix cracked shock absorber mount

Recently:

Replaced filing cabinets with a sofa/bed

replaced radiator hoses

replaced brake shoes on drive axle

fixed water leak in seams around Fantastic Fan in bath. (Discovered some bonehead caulking by previous owners.)

In addition, there have been annual services that included oil changes, filters, and other maintenance items.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

Photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#

On May 16, 2009, at 7:24 PM, richafranco wrote:

Hello,
I just found this group and I have a newbie kind of question. Is it better to buy a newer Bluebird, mid-to late 80's coach or get an older coach and upgrade it to what we need? I like the vintage look of the older Birds. We may live in it for a year or so.
Thanks,
Rich

[richafranco]

Pete,

This is exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for. I've just joined Vintage Birds and that seems like a great site too! Part of my decision to look more towards the vintage birds is of course, money, but I won't let it limit what I think we may need if we can pull this off. Thanks for the great advice and I'll keep checking in to see if you or others can add to this discussion.

What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to maybe rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what ourmonthly mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time to visit some of the places I've always wanted to photograph. This would accomplish atleast 2 things. 1. In a year or so the real estate market should improve(down atleast 30% here) and if we decided we liked this lifestyle, we could sell our home, hopefully back where it was before the crash. 2. I could be out harvesting new images for my gallery(www.richfrancophotography.com)when the economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up and then try and get out and take photos.

I'm really, really just at the beginning of this process and all the info, talk me in, talk me out, will help,

Rich

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> Let's see, with about a thousand owners on this list, you'll get, oh,
> perhaps 886 different opinions....
>
> First, for long-term living, you'll probably find that those with the
> most storage options are a plus and longer is probably better. Note,
> we've taken several trips of up to 5 months at a time -- semi-full
> time living.
>
> When I narrowed my choice to a Blue Bird (after first deciding that I
> wanted something a lot safer than a plastic palace -- and after
> looking at a few bus conversions), I went through the specs on the
> Vintage Birds web site
> <http://www.vintagebirds.com> and started to formulate the
> specifications I'd prefer.
>
> For example, I discovered that prior to (about) 1980, air suspension
> wasn't used. Well, I felt that air suspension, while more complex, was
> likely to be more comfortable. (My experience with heavy equipment
> having been in the Army where I sometimes wondered if the trucks I
> drove or rode in even had springs.)
>
> Going through the years, I picked up on "nice to have" issues. (e.g.
> AquaHot heat is nice.) The extra width of the wide body adds nearly 20
> square feet to the interior of a 40' coach -- also nice. And so on.
> You mention that you like the classic look -- that essentially limits
> you to the narrow body models, since the 1989 introduction of the wide
> body also introduced fiberglass end caps and a 'new' look. (I'd have
> to look, but the last of the narrow bodies were sold in 1990 or 1991
> -- I think a 36' may have been available a year or two longer. (Check
> he Vintage Birds web site.)
>
> Another factor is to look at your budget. I decided on "newer is
> better" and my budget was telling me that "older is cheaper."
> Eventually, I selected a 1995 that I got for a decent price. Your
> budget/desire ratio may be different.
>
> Whatever year you decide on, it's wise to leave aside $5,000 or
> $10,000 in funding for repairs/upgrades you want. Hopefully, you won't
> need to spend it, but even a well cared for coach may have surprises.
>
> For example, since purchasing my coach. In the first 6 months I
> installed/repaired:
> Two new rooftop ACs (one was bad when I inspected the coach -- the
> other had an "encounter" with a tree branch on my maiden trip home.)
> New radiator core (I experienced some heating issues enroute home.)
> Refurbish and recharge chassis AC system (in hindsight, probably a
> waste of money.)
> These immediate issues ended up costing about $7,000. The radiator
> core replacement was about $4,500. Roof ACs were about $1600. Chassis
> AC was nearly $1000. (Prices around the country vary, I am located in
> a high-cost area.)
>
> Later on:
> Align wheels, replace drag link (part of steering) and steering damper
> system (that was broken).
> New bamboo wood floor (do it yourself) and some other redecorating.
> new desk, filing cabinets (removed two sofas).
> new muffler
> fix cracked shock absorber mount
>
>
> Recently:
> Replaced filing cabinets with a sofa/bed
> replaced radiator hoses
> replaced brake shoes on drive axle
> fixed water leak in seams around Fantastic Fan in bath. (Discovered
> some bonehead caulking by previous owners.)
>
> In addition, there have been annual services that included oil
> changes, filters, and other maintenance items.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
> Photos:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 16, 2009, at 7:24 PM, richafranco wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I just found this group and I have a newbie kind of question. Is it
> > better to buy a newer Bluebird, mid-to late 80's coach or get an
> > older coach and upgrade it to what we need? I like the vintage look
> > of the older Birds. We may live in it for a year or so.
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
>

[Ryan Wright]

Rich:

If you're going to live in it, go big. I looked at some SPs and they
are very nice, but for my needs I'm glad I bought a PT-40. This coach
is very livable, even on a long term basis. I wouldn't want to try
living in anything smaller, though - it's still a tiny amount of
living space compared to a house. Next coach I'm going to be looking
for a 42 or 45 footer.

I haven't found the size to be an issue at all in getting around - I
drive it through little towns and on twisty roads and in busy city
traffic with no problems. The size can be very intimidating if you've
never driven something this big (I hadn't, and was intimidated by it
at first), but after a few trips you'll be handling it like a pro. For
something so huge, it's still very maneuverable.

Also, I love the cabinet space in this coach. I've got the overhead
bins up front and in back. Storage galore. Seems to me the eighties
coaches have a more "industrial" design with much more storage and
you'll appreciate that if you're living in it. I love the newer models
with the rope lights and mirrors and all of that fancy garbage - every
time I see one I get the urge to upgrade - but when I eventually do
it, I know I'm going to miss all of this extra storage.

Anyway, that's about the extent of my post: Bigger is Better. Caveman
logic at it's finest.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92


On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:56 PM, richafranco wrote:
>
> What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to maybe
> rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what our monthly
> mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time to visit some of the
> places I've always wanted to photograph. This would accomplish atleast 2
> things. 1. In a year or so the real estate market should improve(down
> atleast 30% here) and if we decided we liked this lifestyle, we could sell
> our home, hopefully back where it was before the crash. 2. I could be out
> harvesting new images for my gallery(http://www.richfrancophotography.com) when the
> economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up and then
> try and get out and take photos.
>

[richafranco]

Ryan,

Thanks for the good info. But what is a SP? A longer version maybe? Space and storage will be an issue. I had a friend a few years ago, who lived on a 34' sailboat and I remember him talking about Christmas presents for his wife and 2 teenagers. I came down to what would fit and maybe what they would have to get rid of to make space! I'm sure this is a typical conversation in the RV world.

As far as the driving part, I've driven trucks in the past for a living and should pick up the skills pretty quickly, I hope. What about the motor in the front vs. the back debates?

Rich

www.richfrancophotography.com

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright wrote:
>
> Rich:
>
> If you're going to live in it, go big. I looked at some SPs and they
> are very nice, but for my needs I'm glad I bought a PT-40. This coach
> is very livable, even on a long term basis. I wouldn't want to try
> living in anything smaller, though - it's still a tiny amount of
> living space compared to a house. Next coach I'm going to be looking
> for a 42 or 45 footer.
>
> I haven't found the size to be an issue at all in getting around - I
> drive it through little towns and on twisty roads and in busy city
> traffic with no problems. The size can be very intimidating if you've
> never driven something this big (I hadn't, and was intimidated by it
> at first), but after a few trips you'll be handling it like a pro. For
> something so huge, it's still very maneuverable.
>
> Also, I love the cabinet space in this coach. I've got the overhead
> bins up front and in back. Storage galore. Seems to me the eighties
> coaches have a more "industrial" design with much more storage and
> you'll appreciate that if you're living in it. I love the newer models
> with the rope lights and mirrors and all of that fancy garbage - every
> time I see one I get the urge to upgrade - but when I eventually do
> it, I know I'm going to miss all of this extra storage.
>
> Anyway, that's about the extent of my post: Bigger is Better. Caveman
> logic at it's finest.
>
> -Ryan
> '86 PT-40 8V92
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:56 PM, richafranco BigRichPho@... wrote:
> >
> > What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to maybe
> > rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what ourmonthly
> > mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time to visit some of the
> > places I've always wanted to photograph. This would accomplish atleast 2
> > things. 1. In a year or so the real estate market should improve(down
> > atleast 30% here) and if we decided we liked this lifestyle, we could sell
> > our home, hopefully back where it was before the crash. 2. I could be out
> > harvesting new images for my gallery(http://www.richfrancophotography.com)when the
> > economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up and then
> > try and get out and take photos.
> >
>

[Fred Bellows]

<!--[if gte mso 9]>

Normal
0


Rich,
as Pete said, you'll probably get about
886 opinions, and here's mine, so, …883 to go. Ryan and Pete like the big coach
concept. Apparently most people do, since once they started making them in the 90's, they never made small ones again. I, however, decided on a smaller coach.
It's true you can take more stuff along with a big one, but consider where you
may want to take it. Many parks limit to 35'. Many roads have weight limits and
speed limits for vehicles with trailers. Various spots around this country still
have shorter height limits, like covered bridges, etc. And just maneuvering
around parking lots and such can require a strategy session with a big rig and
toad. I was like you, knowing I wanted a Blue Bird, because they are clearly
the best engineered and built coaches, with serviceable, redundant systems of
quality components, but not knowing which one. I wanted to spend around $50k.
Wanted to have a rear engine for quiet ride. Wanted a modern exterior look.
Wanted a light-colored interior with an open floorplan that allowed
inter-action between dinette and livingroom. Wanted a single rear axle and low
enough weight to not be restricted on hardly any roads. Wanted length to not
restrict staying in hardly any campgrounds. Wanted 300 horsepower to get up a
mountain (in the same day I started!) Wanted a bath that could be easily
accessed from front or rear when we had guests staying on the comfortable
pull-out couch. In other words a side bath normally, but then a double-door
center bath when needed! Wanted a mid-entry door, with a screen door. Wanted
the kitchen sink to face the "patio" side. Didn't want the extra 6" of width
because to have it on the inside, unfortunately it's on the outside too! Didn't
want to tow a "toad", because I didn't want to be limited to 55mph on a lot of
roads, and I like to be able to back up when needed. So I got a motorcycle lift
and large Vespa scooter (see pics by my signature- also see that there's
another SP photo album on that bluebirdzoom site, as well. and Pete's PT42). Wanted a quiet,
smooth, generator, far from the bedroom for boondocking in the summer in the
desert. I looked at all the Wanderlodges, and discovered that I wanted an SP!
SP's are the little orphan `Birds that were only made for 3 yrs, starting in '89,
and are single axle ("SP" "single axle, pusher"). They were only made in a
36'version, and so we don't even have to say "SP36" – just "SP"! They have been
nick named by some, the "corvette of the Blue Birds" due to their short wheel
base, relatively low weight of 35,000 lbs, and 300 HP. I'm not sure how many
were made, but you can still see them for sale from time to time, but they tend
to go quick. I'm sure in this current climate you'd find one though. And cheap.
So, consider an SP as well, -`just to confuse you further. `My two cents. Well,
expect the other 883 opinions soon.
<!--[if gte mso 9]>

Normal
0

\/\/\…Fred

__________________

Fred & Wendy Bellows

Queen Creek, AZ (so.east Phx)

'90 SP36

"Maunder Maximum"

photos of coach
and upgrades

current location

[pattypape]

Ric,
Questions to ask yourself.
Full-time, Part time???
National , State, County Parks, or mostly private campgrounds. ??? Many are old
campgrounds, many have limited length requirements.
What are your hobbies?? How much stuff?? This may effect the towing decision,
Truck, Van, car, Motorcycle, Cargo trailer, tow car dolly etc.
There is a Bird for everyone find the latest model, in your budget then add 10
to $15K in the first three years.
Condition, condition, and maintenance records. Purchase from forum members,
conscientious owners, then the others.
Attend a Rally , ask for a volunteer members to take a look at a Bird of your
interest, before taking a long trip to see junk....
Monitor and read the Forums, and ask, ask, ask, questions.
We travel 5 to 8 months in a 35 footer, 300 HP , and it is great for our needs.

Bill 88 FC Michigan



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "richafranco" wrote:
>
>
> Ryan,
>
> Thanks for the good info. But what is a SP? A longer version maybe?
> Space and storage will be an issue. I had a friend a few years ago, who
> lived on a 34' sailboat and I remember him talking about Christmas
> presents for his wife and 2 teenagers. I came down to what would fit and
> maybe what they would have to get rid of to make space! I'm sure this is
> a typical conversation in the RV world.
>
> As far as the driving part, I've driven trucks in the past for a living
> and should pick up the skills pretty quickly, I hope. What about the
> motor in the front vs. the back debates?
>
> Rich
>
> http://www.richfrancophotography.com <http://www.richfrancophotography.com>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright
> wrote:
> >
> > Rich:
> >
> > If you're going to live in it, go big. I looked at some SPs and they
> > are very nice, but for my needs I'm glad I bought a PT-40. This coach
> > is very livable, even on a long term basis. I wouldn't want to try
> > living in anything smaller, though - it's still a tiny amount of
> > living space compared to a house. Next coach I'm going to be looking
> > for a 42 or 45 footer.
> >
> > I haven't found the size to be an issue at all in getting around - I
> > drive it through little towns and on twisty roads and in busy city
> > traffic with no problems. The size can be very intimidating if you've
> > never driven something this big (I hadn't, and was intimidated by it
> > at first), but after a few trips you'll be handling it like a pro. For
> > something so huge, it's still very maneuverable.
> >
> > Also, I love the cabinet space in this coach. I've got the overhead
> > bins up front and in back. Storage galore. Seems to me the eighties
> > coaches have a more "industrial" design with much more storage and
> > you'll appreciate that if you're living in it. I love the newer models
> > with the rope lights and mirrors and all of that fancy garbage - every
> > time I see one I get the urge to upgrade - but when I eventually do
> > it, I know I'm going to miss all of this extra storage.
> >
> > Anyway, that's about the extent of my post: Bigger is Better. Caveman
> > logic at it's finest.
> >
> > -Ryan
> > '86 PT-40 8V92
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:56 PM, richafranco BigRichPho@ wrote:
> > >
> > > What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to
> maybe
> > > rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what our
> monthly
> > > mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time to visit
> some of the
> > > places I've always wanted to photograph. This would accomplish
> atleast 2
> > > things. 1. In a year or so the real estate market should
> improve(down
> > > atleast 30% here) and if we decided we liked this lifestyle, we
> could sell
> > > our home, hopefully back where it was before the crash. 2. I could
> be out
> > > harvesting new images for my gallery(http://www.richfrancophotography.com)
> when the
> > > economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up
> and then
> > > try and get out and take photos.
> > >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

Rich,

Having had some experience with rental properties (as a landlord) over the years, you might want to consider a rental management company to handle your home. It might cost 5 to 10% of the revenue, but it will solve a lot of trouble while you're on the road.

Our original plan was to sell our home and go full time. Unfortunately, we put our house up for sale just as the bottom fell out of the market, resulting in zero offers. Real estate agents who'd had "hot" clients, got the response "we'll wait to see how far the prices drop." In our general area, only 3 or 4 houses have sold (not counting foreclosures) during the past (roughly) 3 years. Prices are down by 40-45%.

However, traveling in our coach for 3 to 5 months per trip taught us quite a bit about the lifestyle. For us, we found (1) that are tolerance of the smaller quarters tended to fade after about 4 months. The desire for a larger shower and a larger kitchen (from my wife, especially) started to build strongly at that point. (2) Weultimately came to the conclusion that, despite a variety of dissatisfactions, there is no place quite like "home." We've seen some beautiful areas (along with some of dreadful lack of redeeming qualities). But, we're both native Californians (we live within 10 miles of my birthplace) and there is simply no place where the year-round weather is more appealing to us. (This is not to say that others may have different opinions about weather and natural beauty of the landscape.) (3) I was not as productive at working while on the road as I had hoped. It proved more difficult to work on projects than expected, unless we were stopped somewhere for, at least, several days. (I am a book designer -- the desk I had installed was designed to carry a full-size desktop computer (Mac G5) and a color laser printer.)

The ramifications of our experience is that we're now just as glad that our house did not sell (though it created a significant financial complication for us) and we will be selling our coach. I already offered it earlier this year but removed it from the market and based on the feedback, I've removed the file cabinets and re-installed a sofa and I'm doing some other minor maintenance and some cosmetic fixes. We have a trip for about 3 weeks planned for June -- then, after clean up from the trip, the coach will go back up for sale -- I will sell it for whatever I can get for it. (Honestly, I wish my finances were such that I could hold on to it, but that is simply not the case.) Take a look at the photos (link in signature block) and see what you think.

PS. your photos and web site are very nice. One suggestion (in a role as a marketer) is that you create something interesting to entertain a visitor as the web site loads. Even though I have a very fast cable Internet connection, the loading time for the site seemed quite lengthy. Something to look at while it loaded would have distracted from the lengthy load time.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

Photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#

On May 17, 2009, at 5:56 PM, richafranco wrote:

Pete,

This is exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for. I've just joined Vintage Birds and that seems like a great site too! Part of my decision to look more towards the vintage birds is of course, money, but I won't let it limit what I think we may need if we can pull this off. Thanks for the great advice and I'll keep checking in to see if you or others can add to this discussion.

What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to maybe rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what ourmonthly mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time to visit some of the places I've always wanted to photograph. This would accomplish atleast 2 things. 1. In a year or so the real estate market should improve(down atleast 30% here) and if we decided we liked this lifestyle, we could sell our home, hopefully back where it was before the crash. 2. I could be out harvesting new images for my gallery(www.richfrancophotography.com)when the economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up and then try and get out and take photos.

I'm really, really just at the beginning of this process and all the info, talk me in, talk me out, will help,

<snip>

[richafranco]

Pete,

Thanks again for the info. Our 2 kids(?), 35 and 39, live within 10-15
minutes of our house and if we go down this path, we'll talk with them
and see if they could/would handle this for us. If not then I would use
a management group. Like you, we could probably keep the house for a few
months and give the Bird a try and then come home and see what we think
of the whole deal.

This is all good info, hearing both sides of this experience and the
more I hear and learn, the better the final decision will be. We spend a
lot of time outside, whether working in the yard or just reading in our
screened in room, watching the world go by. I think if we can stay in
beautiful parks and campgrounds, the space issue might not be such a
problem. I don't know. We both read a lot and spend a lot of time on the
Internet and I would think that this may help any "cabin Fever"
outbreaks! Which brings up another side issue, we both go through a few
books a week from our public library. Now what! Where do the books come
from???

You've got a beautiful coach and I can't imagine you having any trouble
selling it, as this economy starts to get better. It's probably out of
our range, but I saved it to our Favorites-BlueBirds.

And finally, thanks for looking at my web site. It's an older design and
I'm actually looking at a template from Blu Domain.com to update my old
site. They run from about $100 to the one I'm looking at, "George" $400.
I have a friend that got one a year ago and he loves it. All
self-managed and very simple.

Rich&Joyce Franco


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> Rich,
>
> Having had some experience with rental properties (as a landlord) over
> the years, you might want to consider a rental management company to
> handle your home. It might cost 5 to 10% of the revenue, but it will
> solve a lot of trouble while you're on the road.
>
> Our original plan was to sell our home and go full time.
> Unfortunately, we put our house up for sale just as the bottom fell
> out of the market, resulting in zero offers. Real estate agents who'd
> had "hot" clients, got the response "we'll wait to see how far the
> prices drop." In our general area, only 3 or 4 houses have sold (not
> counting foreclosures) during the past (roughly) 3 years. Prices are
> down by 40-45%.
>
> However, traveling in our coach for 3 to 5 months per trip taught us
> quite a bit about the lifestyle. For us, we found (1) that are
> tolerance of the smaller quarters tended to fade after about 4 months.
> The desire for a larger shower and a larger kitchen (from my wife,
> especially) started to build strongly at that point. (2) We ultimately
> came to the conclusion that, despite a variety of dissatisfactions,
> there is no place quite like "home." We've seen some beautiful areas
> (along with some of dreadful lack of redeeming qualities). But, we're
> both native Californians (we live within 10 miles of my birthplace)
> and there is simply no place where the year-round weather is more
> appealing to us. (This is not to say that others may have different
> opinions about weather and natural beauty of the landscape.) (3) I was
> not as productive at working while on the road as I had hoped. It
> proved more difficult to work on projects than expected, unless we
> were stopped somewhere for, at least, several days. (I am a book
> designer -- the desk I had installed was designed to carry a full-size
> desktop computer (Mac G5) and a color laser printer.)
>
> The ramifications of our experience is that we're now just as glad
> that our house did not sell (though it created a significant financial
> complication for us) and we will be selling our coach. I already
> offered it earlier this year but removed it from the market and based
> on the feedback, I've removed the file cabinets and re-installed a
> sofa and I'm doing some other minor maintenance and some cosmetic
> fixes. We have a trip for about 3 weeks planned for June -- then,
> after clean up from the trip, the coach will go back up for sale -- I
> will sell it for whatever I can get for it. (Honestly, I wish my
> finances were such that I could hold on to it, but that is simply not
> the case.) Take a look at the photos (link in signature block) and see
> what you think.
>
> PS. your photos and web site are very nice. One suggestion (in a role
> as a marketer) is that you create something interesting to entertain a
> visitor as the web site loads. Even though I have a very fast cable
> Internet connection, the loading time for the site seemed quite
> lengthy. Something to look at while it loaded would have distracted
> from the lengthy load time.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
> Photos:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 17, 2009, at 5:56 PM, richafranco wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Pete,
> >
> > This is exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for. I've just
> > joined Vintage Birds and that seems like a great site too! Part of
> > my decision to look more towards the vintage birds is of course,
> > money, but I won't let it limit what I think we may need if we can
> > pull this off. Thanks for the great advice and I'll keep checking in
> > to see if you or others can add to this discussion.
> >
> > What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to
> > maybe rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what
> > our monthly mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time
> > to visit some of the places I've always wanted to photograph. This
> > would accomplish atleast 2 things. 1. In a year or so the real
> > estate market should improve(down atleast 30% here) and if we
> > decided we liked this lifestyle, we could sell our home, hopefully
> > back where it was before the crash. 2. I could be out harvesting new
> > images for my gallery(http://www.richfrancophotography.com) when the
> > economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up
> > and then try and get out and take photos.
> >
> > I'm really, really just at the beginning of this process and all the
> > info, talk me in, talk me out, will help,
> >
> <snip>
>

[richafranco]

Bill,

Good questions and I have a bunch of bad answers! I don't know about where we'll stay yet, but it will need to be close, if not in the big parks. I'm a photographer(www.richfrancophotography.com) and that's part of the learning curve I'm going through. My stuff isn't usually about the big vistas. but more intimate, so I'm happy really anywhere there's nature. I used to sell at local art shows in years past and I'm thinking this first trip could be the "Stock up on Images" trip. I teach basic computer and digital techniques and I could even do that on the road, I guess.

We'll probably tow the 98 Ford 2wd Expedition I have now, don't have 4wd. Or maybe the '02Vw beetle.

I'll be looking for rallies to attend and I'm not shy!

Thanks again,

Rich&Joyce Franco
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "pattypape" wrote:
>
>
> Ric,
> Questions to ask yourself.
> Full-time, Part time???
> National , State, County Parks, or mostly private campgrounds. ??? Many are old campgrounds, many have limited length requirements.
> What are your hobbies?? How much stuff?? This may effect the towing decision, Truck, Van, car, Motorcycle, Cargo trailer, tow car dolly etc.
> There is a Bird for everyone find the latest model, in your budget then add 10 to $15K in the first three years.
> Condition, condition, and maintenance records. Purchase from forum members, conscientious owners, then the others.
> Attend a Rally , ask for a volunteer members to take a look at a Bird of your interest, before taking a long trip to see junk....
> Monitor and read the Forums, and ask, ask, ask, questions.
> We travel 5 to 8 months in a 35 footer, 300 HP , and it is great for our needs.
>
> Bill 88 FC Michigan
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "richafranco" BigRichPho@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ryan,
> >
> > Thanks for the good info. But what is a SP? A longer version maybe?
> > Space and storage will be an issue. I had a friend a few years ago, who
> > lived on a 34' sailboat and I remember him talking about Christmas
> > presents for his wife and 2 teenagers. I came down to what would fit and
> > maybe what they would have to get rid of to make space! I'm sure this is
> > a typical conversation in the RV world.
> >
> > As far as the driving part, I've driven trucks in the past for a living
> > and should pick up the skills pretty quickly, I hope. What about the
> > motor in the front vs. the back debates?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > http://www.richfrancophotography.com <http://www.richfrancophotography.com>
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Rich:
> > >
> > > If you're going to live in it, go big. I looked at some SPs and they
> > > are very nice, but for my needs I'm glad I bought a PT-40. This coach
> > > is very livable, even on a long term basis. I wouldn't want to try
> > > living in anything smaller, though - it's still a tiny amount of
> > > living space compared to a house. Next coach I'm going to be looking
> > > for a 42 or 45 footer.
> > >
> > > I haven't found the size to be an issue at all in getting around - I
> > > drive it through little towns and on twisty roads and in busy city
> > > traffic with no problems. The size can be very intimidating if you've
> > > never driven something this big (I hadn't, and was intimidated by it
> > > at first), but after a few trips you'll be handling it like a pro. For
> > > something so huge, it's still very maneuverable.
> > >
> > > Also, I love the cabinet space in this coach. I've got the overhead
> > > bins up front and in back. Storage galore. Seems to me the eighties
> > > coaches have a more "industrial" design with much more storage and
> > > you'll appreciate that if you're living in it. I love the newer models
> > > with the rope lights and mirrors and all of that fancy garbage - every
> > > time I see one I get the urge to upgrade - but when I eventually do
> > > it, I know I'm going to miss all of this extra storage.
> > >
> > > Anyway, that's about the extent of my post: Bigger is Better. Caveman
> > > logic at it's finest.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:56 PM, richafranco BigRichPho@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What's behind my thought process, what little there is left, is to
> > maybe
> > > > rent our home in the Orlando area, we could get 3-4 times what our
> > monthly
> > > > mortgage amount is and travel the country, getting time to visit
> > some of the
> > > > places I've always wanted to photograph. This would accomplish
> > atleast 2
> > > > things. 1. In a year or so the real estate market should
> > improve(down
> > > > atleast 30% here) and if we decided we liked this lifestyle, we
> > could sell
> > > > our home, hopefully back where it was before the crash. 2. I could
> > be out
> > > > harvesting new images for my gallery(http://www.richfrancophotography.com)
> > when the
> > > > economy does start to kick in, rather than waiting to see it go up
> > and then
> > > > try and get out and take photos.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>