Goodyear tires - BAD

[Don Bradner]

It is overinflated if it has more pressure than the manufacturer calls for,
cold, at its carrying weight.

A radial is designed to have specific sidewall flex, and an overinflated tire
will not flex correctly.

For the tires in question, 130psi is designed to carry 9090 lbs on a single
tire, or 8270 lbs when part of a dual.

At 85psi (the lowest recommended pressure for this tire) it will carry 6415 lbs
single and 5840 for a dual.

The complete inflation table for RV tires at Goodyear is found at
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rv_inflation.pdf

The recommendation from Goodyear is "Determine the heaviest end of each axle and
use that load to select the inflation pressure for all tires on that axle.Refer
to the appropriate Goodyear load and inflation table and select the inflation
pressure for the load that is nearest to, but not less than, the load you
measured"

Michelin tables are found here:
http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinr...les.j\
sp - on all tires I've compared Goodyear and Michelin have the same PSI values.



On 7/3/2009 at 2:07 PM RWW wrote:

>Is a tire inflated to it's max pressure 'overinflated'??
>
>Roger Webb
>91 WL
>Cedar Rapids, IA
>
>RWW
>
>On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:00 AM, "Don Bradner"
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A quote from one of many articles on the topic: "An overinflated
>> tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in
>> contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are
>> overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when
>> encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience
>> irregular tread wear."
>>
>> The 6 psi was in reference to a car tire - equivalent to something
>> like 20-25psi in our big tires.
>>
>> Since the proper inflation of a 315/80R22.5 could be as low as 85
>> (typical tag axle) or 90 (typical drivers), going to 130 is 40 to 45
>> lbs too high!
>>
>> On 7/3/2009 at 7:11 AM RWW wrote:
>>
>> >This statement confuses me ...
>> >
>> >... there are those who just go to the max. That would probably be
>> >over the proper (way over for some tire positions) level.
>> >
>> >I have always believed that as tire pressure is increased (up to the
>> >max PSI) you increase load capacity and decrease ride quality. In
>> >other words, having your tires above the PSI 'needed' for the weight
>> >at that position (but not above the max) will NOT increase the
>> >probability of tire failure. However, you do sacrifice ride quality.
>> >
>> >Roger Webb
>> >91 WL
>> >Cedar Rapids, IA
>> >
>> >
>> >On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:33 PM, "Don Bradner"
>>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> of 130 psi, and there are those who just go to the max. That would
>> >> probably be over the proper (way over for some tire positions)
>> level.
>>
>>

[trekkersmith1]

Roger,
In the senario Don described, YES, inflating to the max pressure is
overinflated. Correct pressure is determined based on the load the tire is
supporting, and anything above that is overinflating. Most of the tire makers
(Goodyear, Michelin, etc.) have a guide to determine how much pressure to
inflate each tire to. To use the guide, you need to know the weights at each
tire position and the tire size. There's more to it than this, but they
generally have a buried footnote advising that under certain conditions you can
carry 5-10 psi more than the chart calls for.

The proper pressure is thus obtained from a chart, not from what's on the
sidewall of the tire. The amount on the sidewall is max pressure to carry max
weight for the design of the tire. There's also a psi rating for your rims. If
your tire can be inflated to 110 psi, but the rim is only rated for 100 psi,
then 100 psi is your limit. For other folks here who don't understand all this,
if you happen to be going to the FMCA Convention in a couple weeks in Bowling
Green (Ohio, not Kentucky), there is a seminar (maybe several) on this topic,
and they will weigh your coach so you get those important weights, as well as a
report giving you the proper pressures for each axle.
Gary
SOB
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, RWW wrote:
>
> Is a tire inflated to it's max pressure 'overinflated'??
>
> Roger Webb
> 91 WL
> Cedar Rapids, IA
>
> RWW
>
> On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:00 AM, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A quote from one of many articles on the topic: "An overinflated
> > tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in
> > contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are
> > overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when
> > encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience
> > irregular tread wear."
> >
> > The 6 psi was in reference to a car tire - equivalent to something
> > like 20-25psi in our big tires.
> >
> > Since the proper inflation of a 315/80R22.5 could be as low as 85
> > (typical tag axle) or 90 (typical drivers), going to 130 is 40 to 45
> > lbs too high!
> >
> > On 7/3/2009 at 7:11 AM RWW wrote:
> >
> > >This statement confuses me ...
> > >
> > >... there are those who just go to the max. That would probably be
> > >over the proper (way over for some tire positions) level.
> > >
> > >I have always believed that as tire pressure is increased (up to the
> > >max PSI) you increase load capacity and decrease ride quality. In
> > >other words, having your tires above the PSI 'needed' for the weight
> > >at that position (but not above the max) will NOT increase the
> > >probability of tire failure. However, you do sacrifice ride quality.
> > >
> > >Roger Webb
> > >91 WL
> > >Cedar Rapids, IA
> > >
> > >
> > >On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:33 PM, "Don Bradner"
> >
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> of 130 psi, and there are those who just go to the max. That would
> > >> probably be over the proper (way over for some tire positions)
> > level.
> >
> >
>

[RWW]

Don/Gary

I may not have asked my question correctly. I know what and how 'proper' tire pressure is -- based on axle load and the manufacturer's recommendations from their tire charts.

My question was directed to theresponses to the original poster (tred separation and tire failure at 4K miles on Goodyear tires - from another forum member, not me). One response to the poster was immediately questioning whether the tires were 'overinflated'.

My question should have been ,,, even if the owner had the tires at the maximum pressure marked on the sidewall; even if it was not the 'proper / correct' pressure for the axle weight - is the tire 'over inflated' for purposes of claiming cause and fault of the tire failure? Keeping in mind the tires had only 4,000 miles.

Seems scary to me that a manufacturer could blame tire failure due to overinflation above the pressure recommended by the tire charts for the axle weight, yet not above the max pressure stamped on the sidewall. I can see the manufacturer denying responsibility for premature wear, but tred separation?

If over inflated is defined as above the pressure recommeded on the axle weight charts, but below the max stamped on the sidewall, we all have a problem, as we consume our freshwater and fuel; drop off passengers, consume supplies and unhook trailers, etc. That can add up to a lot of weight being taken off the axles, which would put our tire pressures above the pressure recommended by the tire charts. We set our tires for the max load on the axle per the charts, we don't lower pressure as our load reduces on a routine basis, but 'technically' we have 'over inflated' tires for periods of time.

Roger Webb

91WL

Cedar Rapids, IA

RWW

On Jul 3, 2009, at 3:20 PM, "trekkersmith1" <"gl_smith@ix.netcom.com""gl_smith@ix.netcom.com""gl_smith@ix.netcom.com""gl_smith@ix.netcom.com"> wrote:

Roger,

In the senario Don described, YES, inflating to the max pressure is overinflated. Correct pressure is determined based on the load the tire is supporting, and anything above that is overinflating. Most of the tire makers (Goodyear, Michelin, etc.) have a guide to determine how much pressure to inflate each tire to. To use the guide, you need to know the weights at each tire position and the tire size. There's more to it than this, but they generally have a buried footnote advising that under certain conditions you can carry 5-10 psi more than the chart calls for.



The proper pressure is thus obtained from a chart, not from what's on the sidewall of the tire. The amount on the sidewall is max pressure to carry max weight for the design of the tire. There's also a psi rating for your rims. If your tire can be inflated to 110 psi, but the rim is only rated for 100 psi, then 100 psi is your limit. For other folks here who don't understand all this, if you happen to be going to the FMCA Convention in a couple weeks in Bowling Green (Ohio, not Kentucky), there is a seminar (maybe several) on this topic, and they will weigh your coach so you get those important weights, as well as a report giving you the proper pressures for each axle.

Gary

SOB

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", RWW ...> wrote:

>

> Is a tire inflated to it's max pressure 'overinflated'??

>

> Roger Webb

> 91 WL

> Cedar Rapids, IA

>

> RWW

>

> On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:00 AM, "Don Bradner" ...>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > A quote from one of many articles on the topic: "An overinflated

> > tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in

> > contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are

> > overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when

> > encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience

> > irregular tread wear."

> >

> > The 6 psi was in reference to a car tire - equivalent to something

> > like 20-25psi in our big tires.

> >

> > Since the proper inflation of a 315/80R22.5 could be as low as 85

> > (typical tag axle) or 90 (typical drivers), going to 130 is 40 to 45

> > lbs too high!

> >

> > On 7/3/2009 at 7:11 AM RWW wrote:

> >

> > >This statement confuses me ...

> > >

> > >... there are those who just go to the max. That would probably be

> > >over the proper (way over for some tire positions) level.

> > >

> > >I have always believed that as tire pressure is increased (up to the

> > >max PSI) you increase load capacity and decrease ride quality. In

> > >other words, having your tires above the PSI 'needed' for the weight

> > >at that position (but not above the max) will NOT increase the

> > >probability of tire failure. However, you do sacrifice ride quality.

> > >

> > >Roger Webb

> > >91 WL

> > >Cedar Rapids, IA

> > >

> > >

> > >On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:33 PM, "Don Bradner"

> > ...>

> > >wrote:

> > >

> > >> of 130 psi, and there are those who just go to the max. That would

> > >> probably be over the proper (way over for some tire positions)

> > level.

> >

> >

>

=

[Don Bradner]

I understand your point. Mine was not aimed at assessing blame, but rather
finding actual causes of a failure, and most likely course to follow to avoid
such failure.

I would much rather not have a tire failure than I would to have a failure and
be able to make a claim!

It appears that gross over-inflation can be and is a cause for failure, whether
or not the manufacturer would use that as a cause for denial or not.

There is no need to fine-tune the pressure in the way you are suggesting. With
12R or 315/80 tires the difference of one notch in the 5psi-increment table is
some 2000 lbs of total weight on 6 tires! If a position is supposed to have 90
lbs when you are fully loaded and 85 when you are nearly empty that is not going
to matter. Running that same tire at 120 or 130 is an entirely different matter.

I've stayed in this conversation because I know from prior talk that there are
those who truly believe they are doing something good by running max sidewall
pressure.

I do not believe that you can eliminate the possibility of tire failure, but I
do believe you can minimize such possibilities.

On 7/4/2009 at 7:22 AM RWW wrote:

>My question should have been ,,, even if the owner had the tires at
>the maximum pressure marked on the sidewall; even if it was not the
>'proper / correct' pressure for the axle weight - is the tire 'over
>inflated' for purposes of claiming cause and fault of the tire
>failure? Keeping in mind the tires had only 4,000 miles.
...
>If over inflated is defined as above the pressure recommeded on the
>axle weight charts, but below the max stamped on the sidewall, we all
>have a problem, as we consume our freshwater and fuel; drop off
>passengers, consume supplies and unhook trailers, etc. That can add up
>to a lot of weight being taken off the axles, which would put our tire
>pressures above the pressure recommended by the tire charts.

[RWW]

I agree we do not want to mislead anyone to believing inflating to sidewall listed pressure as a way to prevent tire issues.

However, in the case of the original poster asking if anyone has had problems with tred coming off Goodyear tires with only 4,000 miles, I think the respones drifted to investigatingthe cause of the failures as potentially due to tire over inflation,when IMO, the cause is defective Goodyear tires. Point being that even if the poster had his tires at the max sidewall listed pressure (which I doubt) there is no way the tires should have the tred coming off at 4,000 miles.

Roger Webb

91WL

Cedar Rapids, IA -- Happy July 4th to all. Happy birthday USA!!

RWW

On Jul 4, 2009, at 12:02 PM, "Don Bradner" <"bluethunder@arcatapet.com"> wrote:

I understand your point. Mine was not aimed at assessing blame, but rather finding actual causes of a failure, and most likely course to follow to avoid such failure.



I would much rather not have a tire failure than I would to have a failure and be able to make a claim!



It appears that gross over-inflation can be and is a cause for failure, whether or not the manufacturer would use that as a cause for denial or not.



There is no need to fine-tune the pressure in the way you are suggesting. With 12R or 315/80 tires the difference of one notch in the 5psi-increment table is some 2000 lbs of total weight on 6 tires! If a position is supposed to have 90 lbs when you are fully loaded and 85 when you are nearly empty that is not going to matter. Running that same tire at 120 or 130 is an entirely different matter.



I've stayed in this conversation because I know from prior talk that there are those who truly believe they are doing something good by running max sidewall pressure.



I do not believe that you can eliminate the possibility of tire failure, but I do believe you can minimize such possibilities.



On 7/4/2009 at 7:22 AM RWW wrote:



>My question should have been ,,, even if the owner had the tires at

>the maximum pressure marked on the sidewall; even if it was not the

>'proper / correct' pressure for the axle weight - is the tire 'over

>inflated' for purposes of claiming cause and fault of the tire

>failure? Keeping in mind the tires had only 4,000 miles.

...

>If over inflated is defined as above the pressure recommeded on the

>axle weight charts, but below the max stamped on the sidewall, we all

>have a problem, as we consume our freshwater and fuel; drop off

>passengers, consume supplies and unhook trailers, etc. That can add up

>to a lot of weight being taken off the axles, which would put our tire

>pressures above the pressure recommended by the tire charts.

=

[Kurt Horvath]

Goodyear's reputation for quality tires has always been greater than their
perceived quality in my opinion. I've had them on two 1 ton trucks with very
poor service and just this week have changed out all the Goodyear Marathons on
my 24' car trailer, none of which are older than 2 years old and none with more
than 3000 miles on them and they are in poor condition to say the least. I've
replaced 1 Goodyear Marathon every trip with the trailer in the past 5 years
with no help from Goodyear, twice the tires did not make it through the first
days drive! The alignment is good as well as the brake system, this occurs no
matter which tow vehicle I've used, bus or pick up. Replacing them with Kumho,
good customer ratings and 120% cheaper than the Michelin Ribs I wanted.

After reading these posts I would say the tires are at fault, incorrect air
pressure may have played a part but the low mileage speaks volumes. I do have 1
Goodyear G149 on my coach, I had to have a tire and it's all that was available
at the time. It's on my tag so I'm not to concerned with its performance, least
weight per tire on my coach, but it does run hotter than my other tires
according to the infrared thermometer, I have not keep any records but it will
almost always run 20 to 40 degrees hotter than my other tires.

I'd park my bus in the dealers drive way until I got satisfaction. Google
Goodyear Marathon tires and read all the problems, If the tires we use on our
coaches is 1/10 th... the negative feedback these tires have I think you could
get some sort of deal from them. My $00.02
Look at the video Gregg posted from Michelin, I could save your life.
http://www.rainbowrv.com/rv-talk/


Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, RWW wrote:
>
> I agree we do not want to mislead anyone to believing inflating to
> sidewall listed pressure as a way to prevent tire issues.
>
> However, in the case of the original poster asking if anyone has had
> problems with tred coming off Goodyear tires with only 4,000 miles, I
> think the respones drifted to investigating the cause of the failures
> as potentially due to tire over inflation, when IMO, the cause is
> defective Goodyear tires. Point being that even if the poster had
> his tires at the max sidewall listed pressure (which I doubt) there is
> no way the tires should have the tred coming off at 4,000 miles.
>
> Roger Webb
> 91WL
> Cedar Rapids, IA -- Happy July 4th to all. Happy birthday USA!!
>
>
> RWW
>
> On Jul 4, 2009, at 12:02 PM, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I understand your point. Mine was not aimed at assessing blame, but
> > rather finding actual causes of a failure, and most likely course to
> > follow to avoid such failure.
> >
> > I would much rather not have a tire failure than I would to have a
> > failure and be able to make a claim!
> >
> > It appears that gross over-inflation can be and is a cause for
> > failure, whether or not the manufacturer would use that as a cause
> > for denial or not.
> >
> > There is no need to fine-tune the pressure in the way you are
> > suggesting. With 12R or 315/80 tires the difference of one notch in
> > the 5psi-increment table is some 2000 lbs of total weight on 6
> > tires! If a position is supposed to have 90 lbs when you are fully
> > loaded and 85 when you are nearly empty that is not going to matter.
> > Running that same tire at 120 or 130 is an entirely different matter.
> >
> > I've stayed in this conversation because I know from prior talk that
> > there are those who truly believe they are doing something good by
> > running max sidewall pressure.
> >
> > I do not believe that you can eliminate the possibility of tire
> > failure, but I do believe you can minimize such possibilities.
> >
> > On 7/4/2009 at 7:22 AM RWW wrote:
> >
> > >My question should have been ,,, even if the owner had the tires at
> > >the maximum pressure marked on the sidewall; even if it was not the
> > >'proper / correct' pressure for the axle weight - is the tire 'over
> > >inflated' for purposes of claiming cause and fault of the tire
> > >failure? Keeping in mind the tires had only 4,000 miles.
> > ...
> > >If over inflated is defined as above the pressure recommeded on the
> > >axle weight charts, but below the max stamped on the sidewall, we all
> > >have a problem, as we consume our freshwater and fuel; drop off
> > >passengers, consume supplies and unhook trailers, etc. That can add
> > up
> > >to a lot of weight being taken off the axles, which would put our
> > tire
> > >pressures above the pressure recommended by the tire charts.
> >
> >
>

[Dorn Hetzel]

I am happy that the previous owner of my 77FC35 swapped rims to
accomodate standard 11R22.5 truck tires

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:
>
>
>
> Goodyear's reputation for quality tires has always been greater than their
> perceived quality in my opinion. I've had them on two 1 ton trucks with very
> poor service and just this week have changed out all the Goodyear Marathons
> on my 24' car trailer, none of which are older than 2 years old and none
> with more than 3000 miles on them and they are in poor condition to say the
> least. I've replaced 1 Goodyear Marathon every trip with the trailer in the
> past 5 years with no help from Goodyear, twice the tires did not make it
> through the first days drive! The alignment is good as well as the brake
> system, this occurs no matter which tow vehicle I've used, bus or pick up.
> Replacing them with Kumho, good customer ratings and 120% cheaper than the
> Michelin Ribs I wanted.
>
> After reading these posts I would say the tires are at fault, incorrect air
> pressure may have played a part but the low mileage speaks volumes. I do
> have 1 Goodyear G149 on my coach, I had to have a tire and it's all that was
> available at the time. It's on my tag so I'm not to concerned with its
> performance, least weight per tire on my coach, but it does run hotter than
> my other tires according to the infrared thermometer, I have not keep any
> records but it will almost always run 20 to 40 degrees hotter than my other
> tires.
>
> I'd park my bus in the dealers drive way until I got satisfaction. Google
> Goodyear Marathon tires and read all the problems, If the tires we use on
> our coaches is 1/10 th... the negative feedback these tires have I think you
> could get some sort of deal from them. My $00.02
> Look at the video Gregg posted from Michelin, I could save your life.
> http://www.rainbowrv.com/rv-talk/
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT 42
> 10AC
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, RWW wrote:
>>
>> I agree we do not want to mislead anyone to believing inflating to
>> sidewall listed pressure as a way to prevent tire issues.
>>
>> However, in the case of the original poster asking if anyone has had
>> problems with tred coming off Goodyear tires with only 4,000 miles, I
>> think the respones drifted to investigating the cause of the failures
>> as potentially due to tire over inflation, when IMO, the cause is
>> defective Goodyear tires. Point being that even if the poster had
>> his tires at the max sidewall listed pressure (which I doubt) there is
>> no way the tires should have the tred coming off at 4,000 miles.
>>
>> Roger Webb
>> 91WL
>> Cedar Rapids, IA -- Happy July 4th to all. Happy birthday USA!!
>>
>>
>> RWW
>>
>> On Jul 4, 2009, at 12:02 PM, "Don Bradner"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I understand your point. Mine was not aimed at assessing blame, but
>> > rather finding actual causes of a failure, and most likely course to
>> > follow to avoid such failure.
>> >
>> > I would much rather not have a tire failure than I would to have a
>> > failure and be able to make a claim!
>> >
>> > It appears that gross over-inflation can be and is a cause for
>> > failure, whether or not the manufacturer would use that as a cause
>> > for denial or not.
>> >
>> > There is no need to fine-tune the pressure in the way you are
>> > suggesting. With 12R or 315/80 tires the difference of one notch in
>> > the 5psi-increment table is some 2000 lbs of total weight on 6
>> > tires! If a position is supposed to have 90 lbs when you are fully
>> > loaded and 85 when you are nearly empty that is not going to matter.
>> > Running that same tire at 120 or 130 is an entirely different matter.
>> >
>> > I've stayed in this conversation because I know from prior talk that
>> > there are those who truly believe they are doing something good by
>> > running max sidewall pressure.
>> >
>> > I do not believe that you can eliminate the possibility of tire
>> > failure, but I do believe you can minimize such possibilities.
>> >
>> > On 7/4/2009 at 7:22 AM RWW wrote:
>> >
>> > >My question should have been ,,, even if the owner had the tires at
>> > >the maximum pressure marked on the sidewall; even if it was not the
>> > >'proper / correct' pressure for the axle weight - is the tire 'over
>> > >inflated' for purposes of claiming cause and fault of the tire
>> > >failure? Keeping in mind the tires had only 4,000 miles.
>> > ...
>> > >If over inflated is defined as above the pressure recommeded on the
>> > >axle weight charts, but below the max stamped on the sidewall, we all
>> > >have a problem, as we consume our freshwater and fuel; drop off
>> > >passengers, consume supplies and unhook trailers, etc. That can add
>> > up
>> > >to a lot of weight being taken off the axles, which would put our
>> > tire
>> > >pressures above the pressure recommended by the tire charts.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

[Pete Masterson]

Interesting ... I have 1 Goodyear G149 on my tag axle -- installed after a blow out* with out any alternative being available. I, too, have noticed that it runs about 20 degrees warmer than the Toyos on all other positions on the coach.

*Long story, but the tire thatfailedwasbadlywornandcupped.Imadeamiscalculationthatitmightlast"onemoretrip."Whilethetagaxleputstheleastweightonthetires,italsoiswherethetiresseemtogetthemos​tabusefromturnsandmaneuvering.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jul 4, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:

<Snip> I do have 1 Goodyear G149 on my coach, I had to have a tire and it's all that was available at the time. It's on my tag so I'm not to concerned with its performance, least weight per tire on my coach, but it does run hotter than my other tires according to the infrared thermometer, I have not keep any records but it will almost always run 20 to 40 degrees hotter than my other tires.

<snip>