Bouncing Birdie

[bumpersbird]

Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered a problem
I've not heard about or experienced.

On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition. The coach
hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But this time the
suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as soon as I could to
check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and within a minuet or so the
alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps the bump had compressed the
suspension enough to activate the alarm, maybe it was a real big bump.

It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know stretches of
interstate, that have never posed any such problems in the past. With it getting
progressively worse. Small bumps would get the coach porpoising.

Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several times to see
if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in the road . Any
ideas???

I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the actuator arm
is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning. I'm hoping it's not much
more.

Any help would be great.
__________________
Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC

[gregory O]

are you sure it wasnt the alarm for the hwh? and the porpoising it could be that
you were sensitive and looking for trouble??
Greg of Tim&Greg
94ptca

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird" wrote:
>
> Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered a problem
I've not heard about or experienced.
>
> On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition. The
coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But this time
the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as soon as I could
to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and within a minuet or so
the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps the bump had compressed
the suspension enough to activate the alarm, maybe it was a real big bump.
>
> It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know stretches
of interstate, that have never posed any such problems in the past. With it
getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get the coach porpoising.
>
> Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several times to
see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in the road .
Any ideas???
>
> I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the actuator
arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning. I'm hoping it's not
much more.
>
> Any help would be great.
> __________________
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT 42
> 10AC
>

[Curt Sprenger]

No dash lights on or flashing???

Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:59 PM, gregory O <"greg@rainbowrv.com"> wrote:

 

are you sure it wasnt the alarm for the hwh? and the porpoising it could be that you were sensitive and looking for trouble??

Greg of Tim&Greg

94ptca

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird" wrote:

>

> Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered a problem I've not heard about or experienced.

>

> On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition. The coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But this time the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as soon as I could to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and within a minuet or so the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps the bump had compressed the suspension enough to activate the alarm, maybe it was a real big bump.

>

> It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know stretches of interstate, that have never posed any such problems in the past. With it getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get the coach porpoising.

>

> Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several times to see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in the road . Any ideas???

>

> I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the actuator arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning. I'm hoping it's not much more.

>

> Any help would be great.

> __________________

> Kurt Horvath

> 95 PT 42

> 10AC

>

[Curt Sprenger]

Kurt,
My guess is it's the 60 PSI switches in the air system. Our PT38 has 3 of them. One above the tag, one forward of the drive axle, one above the steer axle. R&R-ing the three switches resolved the same problem you are experiencing.  

Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:41 PM, bumpersbird <"kguns@hughes.net"> wrote:

 

Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered a problem I've not heard about or experienced.



On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition. The coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But this time the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as soon as I could to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and within a minuet or so the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps the bump had compressed the suspension enough to activate the alarm, maybe it was a real big bump.



It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know stretches of interstate, that have never posed any such problems in the past. With it getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get the coach porpoising.



Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several times to see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in the road . Any ideas???



I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the actuator arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning. I'm hoping it's not much more.



Any help would be great.

__________________

Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC

[Ralph Fullenwider]

Hi Kurt:

The symptoms sound like the plastic diverter paddle inside the ride height
valve broke. When the Coach goes positive it will lose air in the front
bags when it should be filling because of a hair line crack, then when it
goes neg it closes the crack and fills to the O-Bal point. This will cause
some effect of the bouncy feeling as well because the air springs are
softer due to lack of air but not totally down. You can remove the valve,
open it up and check the plastic diverter paddle in side that is hooked to
the arm, bet you will find it damaged and replace it.

Safe travels,

Ralph & Charolette Fullenwider
'84 FC 35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma

At 05:41 AM 9/24/2009 +0000, you wrote:
>Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered a
>problem I've not heard about or experienced.
>
>On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition. The
>coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But this
>time the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as soon
>as I could to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and within
>a minuet or so the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps the
>bump had compressed the suspension enough to activate the alarm, maybe it
>was a real big bump.
>
>It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know
>stretches of interstate, that have never posed any such problems in the
>past. With it getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get the coach
>porpoising.
>
>Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several times
>to see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in the
>road . Any ideas???
>
>I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the
>actuator arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning. I'm
>hoping it's not much more.
>
>Any help would be great.
>__________________
>Kurt Horvath
>95 PT 42
>10AC
>
>

[bumpersbird]

Thanks guys,

I was going to replace the valves as well as adjusting my tag axle pressure down to 60 psi from it's current 72 psi. Steer axle has too much weight on it and the tag is too light. My coach has always looked a little nose heavy, after checking the prescribed measurements it is nose low. Weighed the coach and she is within 180 lbs of max steer axle weight and the tag has an extra 1100 lbs to take up some of that weight.

Just to make sure I get the correct part.

BB 0871376

Haladex 90054007
http://www.haldex.com/en/North-America/A...e/90054007

Neway 90054007

Newstar S-8718
http://www.sandstruck.com/catalog/airsys...ontrol.htm

Velvac # 034112
http://www.velvac.com/pdf/HeightControlValves.pdf

Cross Reference: 439 E4323, 480 SA1560, 655 574696C91, BKS KD2328, S46 M3263

Guys got them on e-bay for $35
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neway-Hei...leQ5fParts

Greg, I don't have to look for problems they find me! LOL

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Fullenwider wrote:
>
> Hi Kurt:
>
> The symptoms sound like the plastic diverter paddle inside the ride height
> valve broke. When the Coach goes positive it will lose air in the front
> bags when it should be filling because of a hair line crack, then when it
> goes neg it closes the crack and fills to the O-Bal point. This will cause
> some effect of the bouncy feeling as well because the air springs are
> softer due to lack of air but not totally down. You can remove the valve,
> open it up and check the plastic diverter paddle in side that is hooked to
> the arm, bet you will find it damaged and replace it.
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph & Charolette Fullenwider
> '84 FC 35 "Ruff Diamond"
> Duncan, Oklahoma
>
> At 05:41 AM 9/24/2009 +0000, you wrote:
> >Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered a
> >problem I've not heard about or experienced.
> >
> >On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition. The
> >coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But this
> >time the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as soon
> >as I could to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and within
> >a minuet or so the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps the
> >bump had compressed the suspension enough to activate the alarm, maybe it
> >was a real big bump.
> >
> >It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know
> >stretches of interstate, that have never posed any such problems in the
> >past. With it getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get the coach
> >porpoising.
> >
> >Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several times
> >to see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in the
> >road . Any ideas???
> >
> >I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the
> >actuator arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning. I'm
> >hoping it's not much more.
> >
> >Any help would be great.
> >__________________
> >Kurt Horvath
> >95 PT 42
> >10AC
> >
> >
>

[Ralph Fullenwider]

The Haldex 4007 is what I put on my '84FC





At 08:10 PM 9/24/2009 +0000, you wrote:

Thanks guys,



I was going to replace the valves as well as adjusting my tag axle
pressure down to 60 psi from it's current 72 psi. Steer axle has too much
weight on it and the tag is too light. My coach has always looked a
little nose heavy, after checking the prescribed measurements it is nose
low. Weighed the coach and she is within 180 lbs of max steer axle weight
and the tag has an extra 1100 lbs to take up some of that weight.



Just to make sure I get the correct part.



BB 0871376



Haladex 90054007

http://www.haldex.com/en/North-America/A...e/90054007


Neway 90054007



Newstar S-8718

http://www.sandstruck.com/catalog/airsys...ontrol.htm


Velvac # 034112

http://www.velvac.com/pdf/HeightControlValves.pdf


Cross Reference: 439 E4323, 480 SA1560, 655 574696C91, BKS
KD2328, S46 M3263



Guys got them on e-bay for $35

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neway-Hei...leQ5fParts


Greg, I don't have to look for problems they find me! LOL



Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Fullenwider
wrote:

>

> Hi Kurt:

>

> The symptoms sound like the plastic diverter paddle inside the ride
height

> valve broke. When the Coach goes positive it will lose air in the
front

> bags when it should be filling because of a hair line crack, then
when it

> goes neg it closes the crack and fills to the O-Bal point. This will
cause

> some effect of the bouncy feeling as well because the air springs
are

> softer due to lack of air but not totally down. You can remove the
valve,

> open it up and check the plastic diverter paddle in side that is
hooked to

> the arm, bet you will find it damaged and replace it.

>

> Safe travels,

>

> Ralph & Charolette Fullenwider

> '84 FC 35 "Ruff Diamond"

> Duncan, Oklahoma

>

> At 05:41 AM 9/24/2009 +0000, you wrote:

> >Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I
encountered a

> >problem I've not heard about or experienced.

> >

> >On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt
transition. The

> >coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to
unusual. But this

> >time the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled
over as soon

> >as I could to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal
and within

> >a minuet or so the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that
perhaps the

> >bump had compressed the suspension enough to activate the alarm,
maybe it

> >was a real big bump.

> >

> >It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in
know

> >stretches of interstate, that have never posed any such problems
in the

> >past. With it getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get
the coach

> >porpoising.

> >

> >Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the su! spension
several times

> >to see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next
bump in the

> >road . Any ideas???

> >

> >I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe
the

> >actuator arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is
malfunctioning. I'm

> >hoping it's not much more.

> >

> >Any help would be great.

> >__________________

> >Kurt Horvath

> >95 PT 42

> >10AC

> >

> >

>

[gregory O]

The tighter your springs the less rebound weight there is on an axle. If you
limit the bounce of an object the momentum attributed force has less chance to
build. When the front end comes off the ground the max achieved force at
rebound is a weight value. at the bottom of the spring compression you have
actual static weight and the momentum force of the weight in motion.
I test this theory often; I place my 22lb wooden handle sledge hammer on a
customers patio and nothing happens. I then swing the sledge in a 7 foot
radius; when it rest once again on their patio, I write an invoice.

payload in a vehicle that leaves the deck floor on a hard bump adds additional
force when the downward momentum changes direction. shock mounted gensets,
people/live cargo, etc all add to ending force as they build more momentum with
the additional travel distance. My fithwheel/toyhauler friends have learned to
'compress the springs' and 'tie down' their sand toys while in transit. the
first sign of a bounce damaged toyhauler is wrinkled side wall aluminum. Since
the Bluebird side wall wont react to absorb this force all the energy goes to
the axles.

Large commercial truck engineering install equipment like 'cab-shocks' and 'air
ride seats' to keep the drivers teeth in their head. one of the big problems
with the old Mack no spring Dump and Concrete trucks was they would develop
cracks in the metal frame and cab when there was no bounce to handle engine and
road vibration. That is opposite the result of rebound damage when a max loaded
truck bouncy suspension hit a pothole and destroyed an axle.

The Bluebird engineers 'Bird-Brains' had a recent recall with under weight
rated front axles. I cant believe that being that close to a rated weight by
itsself should have any effect on the enduring performance. I think suspension
ride design is another factor to possible failure for consideration. To give a
static weight rating to an axle is a simplistic way for DOT to access legal use.

There is much more that goes into reengineering suspension. would do best to
consider all the variables.

Greg of Tim&Greg
94ptca

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird" wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> I was going to replace the valves as well as adjusting my tag axle
> pressure down to 60 psi from it's current 72 psi. Steer axle has too
> much weight on it and the tag is too light. My coach has always looked a
> little nose heavy, after checking the prescribed measurements it is nose
> low. Weighed the coach and she is within 180 lbs of max steer axle
> weight and the tag has an extra 1100 lbs to take up some of that weight.
>
>
> Just to make sure I get the correct part.
>
>
> BB 0871376
>
>
> Haladex 90054007
> http://www.haldex.com/en/North-America/A...t-cat\
> egories/Brake--Suspension-Systems/Suspension-Controls/Height-Control-Val\
> ve/CR-Height-Control-Valve/90054007
> <http://www.haldex.com/en/North-America/A...ct-ca\
> tegories/Brake--Suspension-Systems/Suspension-Controls/Height-Control-Va\
> lve/CR-Height-Control-Valve/90054007>
>
>
> Neway 90054007
>
>
> Newstar S-8718
> http://www.sandstruck.com/catalog/airsys...ontrol.htm
> <http://www.sandstruck.com/catalog/airsys...ontrol.htm>
>
>
> Velvac # 034112
> http://www.velvac.com/pdf/HeightControlValves.pdf
> <http://www.velvac.com/pdf/HeightControlValves.pdf>
>
>
> Cross Reference: 439 E4323, 480 SA1560, 655 574696C91, BKS KD2328, S46
> M3263
>
>
> Guys got them on e-bay for $35
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neway-Hei...iewIt\
> emQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem5182f6337aQQitemZ350089524090Q\
> QptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neway-Hei...ViewI\
> temQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem5182f6337aQQitemZ350089524090\
> QQptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts>
>
>
> Greg, I don't have to look for problems they find me! LOL
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT 42
> 10AC
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Fullenwider
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kurt:
> >
> > The symptoms sound like the plastic diverter paddle inside the ride
> height
> > valve broke. When the Coach goes positive it will lose air in the
> front
> > bags when it should be filling because of a hair line crack, then when
> it
> > goes neg it closes the crack and fills to the O-Bal point. This will
> cause
> > some effect of the bouncy feeling as well because the air springs are
> > softer due to lack of air but not totally down. You can remove the
> valve,
> > open it up and check the plastic diverter paddle in side that is
> hooked to
> > the arm, bet you will find it damaged and replace it.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> >
> > Ralph & Charolette Fullenwider
> > '84 FC 35 "Ruff Diamond"
> > Duncan, Oklahoma
> >
> > At 05:41 AM 9/24/2009 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Several weeks ago I made a run to IL from Tn and back. I encountered
> a
> > >problem I've not heard about or experienced.
> > >
> > >On the highway I crossed an overpass with a rather abrupt transition.
> The
> > >coach hit hard and my drivers chair bottomed out. Not to unusual. But
> this
> > >time the suspension warning light & alarm came on. I pulled over as
> soon
> > >as I could to check out the problem. Everything appeared normal and
> within
> > >a minuet or so the alarm went out on it's own. I guessed that perhaps
> the
> > >bump had compressed the suspension enough to activate the alarm,
> maybe it
> > >was a real big bump.
> > >
> > >It happened several more times that day, with it occurring in know
> > >stretches of interstate, that have never posed any such problems in
> the
> > >past. With it getting progressively worse. Small bumps would get the
> coach
> > >porpoising.
> > >
> > >Stopped several times, I dumped and aired up the suspension several
> times
> > >to see if it was working and she aired up fine until the next bump in
> the
> > >road . Any ideas???
> > >
> > >I'm thinking it's the air valve for the front suspension. Maybe the
> > >actuator arm is bent, broke or the valve itself is malfunctioning.
> I'm
> > >hoping it's not much more.
> > >
> > >Any help would be great.
> > >__________________
> > >Kurt Horvath
> > >95 PT 42
> > >10AC
> > >
> > >
> >
>