Brake light issue 87FC35

[xz3kg7]

During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often getting
stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This coincides with a relay
in my overhead cabinet chattering.

Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake):
1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town
2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake)
3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead starts
chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now flickering,
corresponding to relay chattering.
4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as they
should be).
5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake. Again,
between 35 and 45 chattering starts.
6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY ON. So
now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of course the
cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise problem).

So, here would be my questions:
1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make sense
to anyone?
2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal)
3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes. (and
where would this overhead relay fit into what happens)

On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and Silverton
Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a good time
Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails.

Thank you,
Alan Johnson
87FC35

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

Hi Alan:

There are several things that can cause this problem, but if we try to
think of them all at this point, I think it would muddy the water to the
point of not finding any thing.

First things to check:
There are 2 break air switches (yes I know you did not use the break, but
that does not make a bad switch good.) that can cause this problem, be it a
boarder line switch going out or one that had become sensitive to a
changing air pressure at certain speeds. These should be located in the
compartment under the drivers seat, out side. Also check any and all
connections in that area.

Then I have seen certain speeds set up a harmonic vibration in tail light
units, and if I remember correctly, you have the elongated Volvo style rear
light sets. The contacts on the lights them selves are fairly close
together and can short easily if not heat shrinked. One way to find this
out is to find a relatively lite used road, and dis connect one tail light
and go to the speed, then the other if no change. And what your looking for
is change when you change the set up from normal.

The over head relay clicking may be due to the spurious voltage being
generated by wiring that is vibrating together else ware. I am going to go
with my gut feeling on it and say that I believe you are going to find a
problem with one of the tail light assemblies or related wiring.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
"84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma

At 02:13 PM 9/28/2010 +0000, you wrote:
>During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often
>getting stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This coincides
>with a relay in my overhead cabinet chattering.
>
>Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake):
>1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town
>2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake)
>3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead
>starts chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now
>flickering, corresponding to relay chattering.
>4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as they
>should be).
>5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake.
>Again, between 35 and 45 chattering starts.
>6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY
>ON. So now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of
>course the cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise problem).
>
>So, here would be my questions:
>1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make
>sense to anyone?
>2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal)
>3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes.
>(and where would this overhead relay fit into what happens)
>
>On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and
>Silverton Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a
>good time Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails.
>
>Thank you,
>Alan Johnson
>87FC35
>
>
>

[Rick Gunther]

A chattering relay is a symptom of low power or a poor connection. -Rick in Ohio --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote: From: Ralph L. Fullenwider Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Brake light issue 87FC35 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 11:30 AM Hi Alan: There are several things that can cause this problem, but if we try to think of them all at this point, I think it would muddy the water to the point of not finding any thing. First things to check: There are 2 break air switches (yes I know you did not use the break, but that does not make a bad switch good.) that can cause this problem, be it a boarder line switch going out or one that had become sensitive to a changing air pressure at certain speeds. These should be located in the compartment under the drivers seat, out side. Also check any and all connections in that area. Then I have seen certain speeds set up a harmonic vibration in tail light units, and if I remember correctly, you have the elongated Volvo style rear light sets. The contacts on the lights them selves are fairly close together and can short easily if not heat shrinked. One way to find this out is to find a relatively lite used road, and dis connect one tail light and go to the speed, then the other if no change. And what your looking for is change when you change the set up from normal. The over head relay clicking may be due to the spurious voltage being generated by wiring that is vibrating together else ware. I am going to go with my gut feeling on it and say that I believe you are going to find a problem with one of the tail light assemblies or related wiring. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider "84FC35 "Ruff Diamond" Duncan, Oklahoma At 02:13 PM 9/28/2010 +0000, you wrote: >During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often >getting stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This coincides >with a relay in my overhead cabinet chattering. > >Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake): >1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town >2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake) >3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead >starts chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now >flickering, corresponding to relay chattering. >4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as they >should be). >5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake. >Again, between 35 and 45 chattering starts. >6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY >ON. So now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of >course the cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise problem). > >So, here would be my questions: >1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make >sense to anyone? >2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal) >3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes. >(and where would this overhead relay fit into what happens) > >On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and >Silverton Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a >good time Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails. > >Thank you, >Alan Johnson >87FC35 > > >

[Ernie Ekberg]

Rick, you going to RATS? I'll be there with 2 of my mutts. Ernie- Austintown, Ohio Ernie Ekberg 83PT40 Wanderlodge Weatherford, Tx 817-475-3991 www.ernieekbergflooring.net --- On Wed, 9/29/10, Rick Gunther wrote: From: Rick Gunther Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Brake light issue 87FC35 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 7:01 AM A chattering relay is a symptom of low power or a poor connection. -Rick in Ohio --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote: From: Ralph L. Fullenwider Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Brake light issue 87FC35 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 11:30 AM Hi Alan: There are several things that can cause this problem, but if we try to think of them all at this point, I think it would muddy the water to the point of not finding any thing. First things to check: There are 2 break air switches (yes I know you did not use the break, but that does not make a bad switch good.) that can cause this problem, be it a boarder line switch going out or one that had become sensitive to a changing air pressure at certain speeds. These should be located in the compartment under the drivers seat, out side. Also check any and all connections in that area. Then I have seen certain speeds set up a harmonic vibration in tail light units, and if I remember correctly, you have the elongated Volvo style rear light sets. The contacts on the lights them selves are fairly close together and can short easily if not heat shrinked. One way to find this out is to find a relatively lite used road, and dis connect one tail light and go to the speed, then the other if no change. And what your looking for is change when you change the set up from normal. The over head relay clicking may be due to the spurious voltage being generated by wiring that is vibrating together else ware. I am going to go with my gut feeling on it and say that I believe you are going to find a problem with one of the tail light assemblies or related wiring. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider "84FC35 "Ruff Diamond" Duncan, Oklahoma At 02:13 PM 9/28/2010 +0000, you wrote: >During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often >getting stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This coincides >with a relay in my overhead cabinet chattering. > >Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake): >1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town >2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake) >3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead >starts chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now >flickering, corresponding to relay chattering. >4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as they >should be). >5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake. >Again, between 35 and 45 chattering starts. >6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY >ON. So now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of >course the cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise problem). > >So, here would be my questions: >1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make >sense to anyone? >2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal) >3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes. >(and where would this overhead relay fit into what happens) > >On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and >Silverton Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a >good time Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails. > >Thank you, >Alan Johnson >87FC35 > > >

[Rick Gunther]

No, too much drama here at home. I do plan to go to Maxton though. Hope to see you there. -Rick in Ohio --- On Wed, 9/29/10, Ernie Ekberg wrote: From: Ernie Ekberg Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Brake light issue 87FC35 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 12:06 PM Rick, you going to RATS? I'll be there with 2 of my mutts. Ernie- Austintown, Ohio Ernie Ekberg 83PT40 Wanderlodge Weatherford, Tx 817-475-3991 www.ernieekbergflooring.net --- On Wed, 9/29/10, Rick Gunther wrote: From: Rick Gunther Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Brake light issue 87FC35 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 7:01 AM A chattering relay is a symptom of low power or a poor connection. -Rick in Ohio --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote: From: Ralph L. Fullenwider Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Brake light issue 87FC35 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 11:30 AM Hi Alan: There are several things that can cause this problem, but if we try to think of them all at this point, I think it would muddy the water to the point of not finding any thing. First things to check: There are 2 break air switches (yes I know you did not use the break, but that does not make a bad switch good.) that can cause this problem, be it a boarder line switch going out or one that had become sensitive to a changing air pressure at certain speeds. These should be located in the compartment under the drivers seat, out side. Also check any and all connections in that area. Then I have seen certain speeds set up a harmonic vibration in tail light units, and if I remember correctly, you have the elongated Volvo style rear light sets. The contacts on the lights them selves are fairly close together and can short easily if not heat shrinked. One way to find this out is to find a relatively lite used road, and dis connect one tail light and go to the speed, then the other if no change. And what your looking for is change when you change the set up from normal. The over head relay clicking may be due to the spurious voltage being generated by wiring that is vibrating together else ware. I am going to go with my gut feeling on it and say that I believe you are going to find a problem with one of the tail light assemblies or related wiring. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider "84FC35 "Ruff Diamond" Duncan, Oklahoma At 02:13 PM 9/28/2010 +0000, you wrote: >During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often >getting stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This coincides >with a relay in my overhead cabinet chattering. > >Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake): >1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town >2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake) >3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead >starts chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now >flickering, corresponding to relay chattering. >4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as they >should be). >5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake. >Again, between 35 and 45 chattering starts. >6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY >ON. So now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of >course the cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise problem). > >So, here would be my questions: >1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make >sense to anyone? >2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal) >3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes. >(and where would this overhead relay fit into what happens) > >On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and >Silverton Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a >good time Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails. > >Thank you, >Alan Johnson >87FC35 > > >

[Wilhelmus Schreurs]

Alan:
Check the retarder circuit, see if all is working properly.

Bill
1988 40WB XXV "Anniversary Special Edition" (HERS and she not sharing)
Terrace, B.C. Canada eh

[xz3kg7]

Bill,

I'm not sure what you mean. I never thought of it, but when you apply the
retarder manually (instead of with brake pedal) does it turn on the brake
lights? Is this what you mean?

Thanks,
Alan

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wilhelmus Schreurs
wrote:
>
> Alan:
> Check the retarder circuit, see if all is working properly.
>
> Bill
> 1988 40WB XXV "Anniversary Special Edition" (HERS and she not sharing)
> Terrace, B.C. Canada eh
>

[xz3kg7]

Ralph, What does the brake air switch look like? I'll pull my grill and access
panel... I'm just not sure what I'll be looking for.

Thanks,
Alan

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
wrote:
>
> Hi Alan:
>
> There are several things that can cause this problem, but if we try to
> think of them all at this point, I think it would muddy the water to the
> point of not finding any thing.
>
> First things to check:
> There are 2 break air switches (yes I know you did not use the break, but
> that does not make a bad switch good.) that can cause this problem, be it a
> boarder line switch going out or one that had become sensitive to a
> changing air pressure at certain speeds. These should be located in the
> compartment under the drivers seat, out side. Also check any and all
> connections in that area.
>
> Then I have seen certain speeds set up a harmonic vibration in tail light
> units, and if I remember correctly, you have the elongated Volvo style rear
> light sets. The contacts on the lights them selves are fairly close
> together and can short easily if not heat shrinked. One way to find this
> out is to find a relatively lite used road, and dis connect one tail light
> and go to the speed, then the other if no change. And what your looking for
> is change when you change the set up from normal.
>
> The over head relay clicking may be due to the spurious voltage being
> generated by wiring that is vibrating together else ware. I am going to go
> with my gut feeling on it and say that I believe you are going to find a
> problem with one of the tail light assemblies or related wiring.
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> "84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
> Duncan, Oklahoma
>
> At 02:13 PM 9/28/2010 +0000, you wrote:
> >During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often
> >getting stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This coincides
> >with a relay in my overhead cabinet chattering.
> >
> >Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake):
> >1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town
> >2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake)
> >3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead
> >starts chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now
> >flickering, corresponding to relay chattering.
> >4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as they
> >should be).
> >5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake.
> >Again, between 35 and 45 chattering starts.
> >6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY
> >ON. So now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of
> >course the cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise problem).
> >
> >So, here would be my questions:
> >1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make
> >sense to anyone?
> >2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal)
> >3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes.
> >(and where would this overhead relay fit into what happens)
> >
> >On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and
> >Silverton Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a
> >good time Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails.
> >
> >Thank you,
> >Alan Johnson
> >87FC35
> >
> >
> >
>

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

It resembles a mushroom type head with 2 prongs or terminals on one end and
will have an 1/8 inch pipe fitting on the other end. This way the air
transfers a signal from analog to digital when you step on the air break.
There are two of these switches, one for the front and on for the rear and
are usually mounted in the same contingent area. When you see them, there
will be no doubt as to what they are. The mushroom head is about the
diameter of a Silver Dollar (old ones)

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
"84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma

At 03:11 AM 10/3/2010 +0000, you wrote:
>Ralph, What does the brake air switch look like? I'll pull my grill and
>access panel... I'm just not sure what I'll be looking for.
>
>Thanks,
>Alan
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan:
> >
> > There are several things that can cause this problem, but if we try to
> > think of them all at this point, I think it would muddy the water to the
> > point of not finding any thing.
> >
> > First things to check:
> > There are 2 break air switches (yes I know you did not use the break, but
> > that does not make a bad switch good.) that can cause this problem, be
> it a
> > boarder line switch going out or one that had become sensitive to a
> > changing air pressure at certain speeds. These should be located in the
> > compartment under the drivers seat, out side. Also check any and all
> > connections in that area.
> >
> > Then I have seen certain speeds set up a harmonic vibration in tail light
> > units, and if I remember correctly, you have the elongated Volvo style
> rear
> > light sets. The contacts on the lights them selves are fairly close
> > together and can short easily if not heat shrinked. One way to find this
> > out is to find a relatively lite used road, and dis connect one tail light
> > and go to the speed, then the other if no change. And what your looking
> for
> > is change when you change the set up from normal.
> >
> > The over head relay clicking may be due to the spurious voltage being
> > generated by wiring that is vibrating together else ware. I am going to go
> > with my gut feeling on it and say that I believe you are going to find a
> > problem with one of the tail light assemblies or related wiring.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> >
> > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > "84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
> > Duncan, Oklahoma
> >
> > At 02:13 PM 9/28/2010 +0000, you wrote:
> > >During a recent trip I noticed my brake lights flickering, then often
> > >getting stuck on. (I could see them at night in my camera). This
> coincides
> > >with a relay in my overhead cabinet chattering.
> > >
> > >Here is an experiment I tried. (slowed down w/o stepping on brake):
> > >1. I am driving at highway speeds, then have to slow down for small town
> > >2. I flip the switch and turn off cruise (i do NOT step on brake)
> > >3. As I slow down, somewhere between 35 and 45, a relay in the overhead
> > >starts chattering. The brake lights (as seen in camera) are now
> > >flickering, corresponding to relay chattering.
> > >4. Somewhere below 35, chattering stops, and brake lights are off (as
> they
> > >should be).
> > >5. Now let's say I speed back up, all the time WITHOUT stepping on brake.
> > >Again, between 35 and 45 chattering starts.
> > >6. Around 45, the chattering will stop, but OFTEN the BRAKE LIGHTS STAY
> > >ON. So now, I am driving highway speeds with my brake lights on, and of
> > >course the cruise will NOT engage. (I used to think I had a cruise
> problem).
> > >
> > >So, here would be my questions:
> > >1. First, does this chattering at certain speeds and then staying on make
> > >sense to anyone?
> > >2. Where is the brake switch? (I have tried pulling up on pedal)
> > >3. Electrically, what is SUPPOSED to happen when I step on the brakes.
> > >(and where would this overhead relay fit into what happens)
> > >
> > >On the good news, just got back from a GREAT 10 days in Durango and
> > >Silverton Colorado. Weather was fantastic, leaves were turning, and had a
> > >good time Jeeping on the mountain 4x4 trails.
> > >
> > >Thank you,
> > >Alan Johnson
> > >87FC35
> > >
> > >
>

[Wilhelmus Schreurs]

.Alan:
On my 84 the retarder only worked in manual mode, and yes the lights did go on. I believe on the latter models, an additional circuit was installed with the throttle, ( a micro switch or mercury switch that works off the throttle) this would allow you to leave a setting on the retarder and then whenever there was no throttle, the retarder would come on. If the retarder switch was in low mode and the switch was cycling you would not feel much a power difference.

The switches that Ralph eluded too, are small pressure switches, when you apply the brakes, pressure closes the switches completing the circuit.

Bill
1988 40WB XXV "Anniversary Special Edition" (HERS and she not sharing)
Terrace, B.C. Canada eh