Aqua Hot performance

[Michael Bulriss]

Wayne and Ron, Just FYI,when it got in the teens here, after several days the toe heater was struggling to keep the inside above 40, so like Ron I fired up one of the Primus heaters. I got the coach up in the 70s after about 2.5 hours also just running one side of the Primus heat. So I would think the Aquahot would be up to the task also. Don't most folks say they are more efficient than the Primus? Or are they pretty much equivalent? Mike Bulriss 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, TX --- On Sun, 2/27/11, ronmarabito2002 wrote: From: ronmarabito2002 Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 7:25 PM Each loop produces 21,500 btu. R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40] Currently in Death Valley. --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote: > > Hi, > Thanks for the encouragingÂinformation. Have a safe trip. > How many BTU is yourÂPrimus?? > > Wayne Kotila > 96PT42 > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ronmarabito2002 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 10:54:30 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance > >  > Wayne: Last month we went through several days in the teens. I have the Primus > in my coach and only using one side, it was able to keep the coach toasty. No > reason for your Aqua Hot not to be able to handle those temperatures. You just > have something amiss. > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40 > Currently in Las Vegas and headed for Death Valley today. > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote: > > > > Hi Fred, all of my pumps and fans are opperating and I have a new burner nozzle > > > > and new Racor fuel filter, and the boiler fluid is at the proper level. What is > > > > the coldest temp you have used your coach in and did your Aqua Hot keep up? I > > was wondering if the 50,000 btu Aqua HotÂÂis able to keep up in similar coachs > >to > > > > mine in cold temps. > > > > Wayne Kotila > > 96PT42 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Fred Hulse > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 10:50:07 AM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance > > > >  > > Wayne > > I would be certain all your pumps are running to all three zones and of course > > > the fans are ok,( the one in the kitchen toe board is not protected and the > > blades could have broken). > > Also the operating manual should show a thermostat you can access and raise up > >a > > > > little. > > Fred & Jeanne Hulse > > Morristown,Arizona > > 97 WLWB41 > > i Fred, > > >

[Wayne Kotila]

Does your Primus have 2 loops for a total of 43000 BTU?

Wayne Kotila

96PT42

---

From: ronmarabito2002
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 7:25:50 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance

Each loop produces 21,500 btu.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40]
Currently in Death Valley.

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Wayne Kotila wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for the encouragingÂinformation. Have a safe trip.
> How many BTU is yourÂPrimus??
>
> Wayne Kotila
> 96PT42
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 10:54:30 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance
>
> Â

> Wayne: Last month we went through several days in the teens. I have the Primus
> in my coach and only using one side, it was able to keep the coach toasty. No
> reason for your Aqua Hot not to be able to handle those temperatures. You just
> have something amiss.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> Currently in Las Vegas and headed for Death Valley today.
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Wayne Kotila wrote:
> >
> > Hi Fred, all of my pumps and fans are opperating and I have a new burner nozzle
> >
> > and new Racor fuel filter, and the boiler fluid is at the proper level. What is
> >
> > the coldest temp you have used your coach in and did your Aqua Hot keep up? I

> > was wondering if the 50,000 btu Aqua HotÂÂis able to keep up in similar coachs
> >to
> >
> > mine in cold temps.
> >
> > Wayne Kotila
> > 96PT42
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Fred Hulse
> > To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 10:50:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Wayne
> > I would be certain all your pumps are running to all three zones and of course
>
> > the fans are ok,( the one in the kitchen toe board is not protected and the
> > blades could have broken).
> > Also
the operating manual should show a thermostat you can access and raise up
> >a
> >
> > little.
> > Fred & Jeanne Hulse
> > Morristown,Arizona
> > 97 WLWB41
> > i Fred,
> >
>

[Wayne Kotila]

I don't know how they compare but it sounds like your Primus works great, is the one Primus you fired up 21500 BTU?

Wayne kotila

96PT42

---

From: Michael Bulriss <mbulriss@...>
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 8:46:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance

Wayne and Ron, Just FYI,when it got in the teens here, after several days the toe heater was struggling to keep the inside above 40, so like Ron I fired up one of the Primus heaters. I got the coach up in the 70s after about 2.5 hours also just running one side of the Primus heat. So I would think the Aquahot would be up to the task also. Don't most folks say they are more efficient than the Primus? Or are they pretty much equivalent? Mike Bulriss 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, TX --- On Sun, 2/27/11, ronmarabito2002 wrote: From: ronmarabito2002 Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 7:25 PM Each loop produces 21,500 btu. R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40] Currently in Death Valley. --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote: > > Hi, > Thanks for the encouragingÂinformation. Have a safe trip. > How many BTU is yourÂPrimus?? > > Wayne Kotila > 96PT42 > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ronmarabito2002 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 10:54:30 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance > >  > Wayne: Last month we went through several days in the teens. I have the Primus > in my coach and only using one side, it was able to keep the coach toasty. No > reason for your Aqua Hot not to be able to handle those temperatures. You just > have something amiss. > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40 > Currently in Las Vegas and headed for Death Valley today. > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote: > > > > Hi Fred, all of my pumps and fans are opperating and I have a new burner nozzle > > > > and new Racor fuel filter, and the boiler fluid is at the proper level. What is > > > > the coldest temp you have used your coach in and did your Aqua Hot keep up? I > > was wondering if the 50,000 btu Aqua HotÂÂis able to keep up in similar coachs > >to > > > > mine in cold temps. > > > > Wayne Kotila > > 96PT42 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Fred Hulse > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 10:50:07 AM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance > > > >  > > Wayne > > I would be certain all your pumps are running to all three zones and of course > > > the fans are ok,( the one in the kitchen toe board is not protected and the > > blades could have broken). > > Also the operating manual should show a thermostat you can access and raise up > >a > > > > little. > > Fred & Jeanne Hulse > > Morristown,Arizona > > 97 WLWB41 > > i Fred, > > >

[Michael Bulriss]

Yes, the Primus systems have two 2490 boilers and two loops, one for each side of the coach. Mike Bulriss 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, TX --- On Sun, 2/27/11, Wayne Kotila wrote: From: Wayne Kotila Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 9:18 PM Does your Primus have 2 loops for a total of 43000 BTU? Wayne Kotila 96PT42 From: ronmarabito2002 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 7:25:50 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance Each loop produces 21,500 btu. R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40] Currently in Death Valley. --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote: > > Hi, > Thanks for the encouragingÂinformation. Have a safe trip. > How many BTU is yourÂPrimus?? > > Wayne Kotila > 96PT42 > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ronmarabito2002 > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 10:54:30 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance > >  > Wayne: Last month we went through several days in the teens. I have the Primus > in my coach and only using one side, it was able to keep the coach toasty. No > reason for your Aqua Hot not to be able to handle those temperatures. You just > have something amiss. > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40 > Currently in Las Vegas and headed for Death Valley today. > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote: > > > > Hi Fred, all of my pumps and fans are opperating and I have a new burner nozzle > > > > and new Racor fuel filter, and the boiler fluid is at the proper level. What is > > > > the coldest temp you have used your coach in and did your Aqua Hot keep up? I > > was wondering if the 50,000 btu Aqua HotÂÂis able to keep up in similar coachs > >to > > > > mine in cold temps. > > > > Wayne Kotila > > 96PT42 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Fred Hulse > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 10:50:07 AM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance > > > >  > > Wayne > > I would be certain all your pumps are running to all three zones and of course > > > the fans are ok,( the one in the kitchen toe board is not protected and the > > blades could have broken). > > Also the operating manual should show a thermostat you can access and raise up > >a > > > > little. > > Fred & Jeanne Hulse > > Morristown,Arizona > > 97 WLWB41 > > i Fred, > > >

[Eric]

I spent one night at +6 degrees while only using the Aquahot. I wanted to see
if the Aquahot would keep up. The Aquahot could keep up. It cycled on an off.
It appeared to have plenty of additional time to heat the glycol solution. It
sure wasn't toasty in the coach. Let me give you a run down of life in the
coach as I remember it.

I almost never run the bedroom heat (Zone 3). I did run it occasionally on that
night. I don't like the noise nor a hot bedroom. Zone 2, the bathroom was fine
but remember Zone 2 also heats the basement and in cold conditions there are a
lot of radiators in the basement demanding hot water. The 1/2" line that
circulates glycol is mighty small to keep about 6 to 8 radiators satisfied.

Finally zone 1, the main area puts out heat but by the time the hot glycol gets
to my dashboard toe heaters the air blowing out is lukewarm. The first zone,
under the sink if fine, the radiator under the couch is warm. The third
radiator in series with the other two heaters, under the dashboard is
disappointingly lukewarm.

In order to keep the coach comfortable (I should say from being uncomfortable.)
I closed all the window coverings as tightly as I could. I turned the basement
thermostat down to as low as it would go +/-40 degrees. I should tell you that
Rich Archie's recent experience with freeze up should be kept in mind when
setting the basement heat on minimum.

I chose not to run the electric heat that night. By morning the temperature in
the coach, as I recall, was in the high 50's. I turned all the electric heaters
on. The bottom line for me, in my coach, in single digit temperatures is to run
the electric heaters.

In fact 98.9% of the time I run only electric heaters to heat the main cabin. I
of course use the Aquahot to maintain above freezing conditions in the bays.
The only time I ever use the AquaHot to heat the cabin is when I dry camp. When
I start dry camping in single digit temperatures is the time for some members of
my family to commit me for my own safety.

After full timing for 7 years we've found that supplementing the two electric
heaters that BB provided with one silent type heater near the dash board is
quite satisfactory. The front, silent heater is on all the time and the other
BB heaters trim the heat in the bus. I don't use the Aquahot because it is much
louder than the electric heaters. Furthermore the AquaHot uses diesel. I pay
for that. Typically I don't pay for electricity.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Eric Perplies
96' PT-42
currently in Las Vegas

[ronmarabito2002]

Yes. That is correct.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
Currently in Death Valley

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote:
>
> Does your Primus have 2 loops for a total of 43000 BTU?
>
> Wayne Kotila
> 96PT42
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ronmarabito2002
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 7:25:50 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance
>
> Â
> Each loop produces 21,500 btu.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40]
> Currently in Death Valley.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Thanks for the encouraging information. Have a safe trip.
> > How many BTU is your Primus??
> >
> > Wayne Kotila
> > 96PT42
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ronmarabito2002
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 10:54:30 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Wayne: Last month we went through several days in the teens. I have the
Primus
>
> > in my coach and only using one side, it was able to keep the coach toasty.
No
> > reason for your Aqua Hot not to be able to handle those temperatures. You
just
>
> > have something amiss.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > Currently in Las Vegas and headed for Death Valley today.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Kotila wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Fred, all of my pumps and fans are opperating and I have a new burner
> >nozzle
> >
> > >
> > > and new Racor fuel filter, and the boiler fluid is at the proper level.
What
> >is
> >
> > >
> > > the coldest temp you have used your coach in and did your Aqua Hot keep
up? I
> >
> > > was wondering if the 50,000 btu Aqua Hot is able to keep up in
similar
> >coachs
> >
> > >to
> > >
> > > mine in cold temps.
> > >
> > > Wayne Kotila
> > > 96PT42
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Fred Hulse
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 10:50:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > > Wayne
> > > I would be certain all your pumps are running to all three zones and of
> >course
> >
> >
> > > the fans are ok,( the one in the kitchen toe board is not protected and
the
> > > blades could have broken).
> > > Also the operating manual should show a thermostat you can access and
raise
> >up
> >
> > >a
> > >
> > > little.
> > > Fred & Jeanne Hulse
> > > Morristown,Arizona
> > > 97 WLWB41
> > > i Fred,
> > >
> >
>

[95 BMC 37]

If your 3 electric toe kick heaters will keep the coach warm and they produce a
couple of thousand BTUs each, it only makes since that the A/H should do a
better job as they produce 2 times the heat, each. There must be a problem? I do
a lot of cold camping, last weekend it was 9 deg in Republic WA. and I keep the
coach at the temp I wanted. I have done a few things to improve the system. All
the hoses run along the side of the coach next to the exterior skin in the bays,
so I moved them a little and encased them in pipe insulation everywhere I could,
and two of the hoses ran outside to the front of the coach so I encased those in
pipe insulation. One thing I do know is that the burner runs a lot when it's
that cold, and diesel cost a lot, so I too heat with electric and supplement
with the A/H. I also made window inserts out of ¼" white packing foam stuff, and
keep the blinds down except in the sun.
Marty Gregg
95 BMC 37
Kennewick WA

[Eric]

You may be right. I probably wouldn't be comfortable with only 3 electric
heaters running in single digit temperatures. Actually, I never tried spending
any time in single digit temperatures after that one incident. In 20 degree
conditions I do run an additional electric heater in the front of the coach and
move my "silent" heater mid coach, but my kitchen and bathroom heater only comes
on occasionally, until I turn the heat up in the a.m.

My whole point was that my AquaHot is not capable of keeping my coach
comfortable in single digit temperatures in a manner that satisfies me. If I
ran all the AH heaters my bedroom would be too hot and the living area too cold.
The AH may deliver more BTU's in the bus, but they weren't where I wanted them.

When I look at the standard heater layout in my bus there is significantly less
heating capability up front than I would have preferred.


Eric Perplies
96' PT-42




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "95 BMC 37" wrote:
>
> If your 3 electric toe kick heaters will keep the coach warm and they produce
a couple of thousand BTUs each, it only makes since that the A/H should do a
better job as they produce 2 times the heat, each. There must be a problem? I do
a lot of cold camping, last weekend it was 9 deg in Republic WA. and I keep the
coach at the temp I wanted. I have done a few things to improve the system. All
the hoses run along the side of the coach next to the exterior skin in the bays,
so I moved them a little and encased them in pipe insulation everywhere I could,
and two of the hoses ran outside to the front of the coach so I encased those in
pipe insulation. One thing I do know is that the burner runs a lot when it's
that cold, and diesel cost a lot, so I too heat with electric and supplement
with the A/H. I also made window inserts out of ¼" white packing foam stuff, and
keep the blinds down except in the sun.
> Marty Gregg
> 95 BMC 37
> Kennewick WA
>

[Wayne Kotila]

Eric, good information, I stopped at Parliament coach and had them check my fuel pump pressure and it was 20 psi to low, the guy ajusted it and now the diesal boiler at least keeps up, itis now able to keepthe boiler fluid expanded to the proper level in the expansion tank. Before the pressure ajustment the diesal burner could not keep up and the fluid would cool to the point thatthere was none in the expansion tank. Ihave a heavy Glycol to water mix in the boiler, about60% glycol to 40% water, this heavy mixture is supposed to be much less efficient at transfering heat than the recomended 50/50 mix. I am going to thin it out, that being saidI still think that the 50,000 BTU boiler is barely adequate to keep up with all the heat loss generated by the single pane
windows and aging window seals in low ambient temps. It's possible that an additional zone for the front of the coach would make heating up front with all those windows easier, but maybe the boiler couldn't keep up with an added zone.

I was told by Aqua Hot that heating the boiler fluid with the engine when driving is only going to be adequate in mild temps because there is only about 15' of tubing in that engine heat loop. The earlier Wanderlodge's that used the 3 heat exchangers in the coach that had engine antifreeze circulating through them worked much better, in my last coach (1985 PT40) that system using no additional heat, kept the coach very warm inside while driving at -10 deg. farenheit. I quessmost peopledon't intend on usingtheir coach's in extreamly cold temps, but I do expect the coach heating systems to be able to keep the plumbing from freezing and the coach comfortable if having to travel in cold weather.

Wayne

96PT42

---

From: Eric To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 9:53:49 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance

I spent one night at +6 degrees while only using the Aquahot. I wanted to see if the Aquahot would keep up. The Aquahot could keep up. It cycled on an off. It appeared to have plenty of additional time to heat the glycol solution. It sure wasn't toasty in the coach. Let me give you a run down of life in the coach as I remember it.

I almost never run the bedroom heat (Zone 3). I did run it occasionally on that night. I don't like the noise nor a hot bedroom. Zone 2, the bathroom was fine but remember Zone 2 also heats the basement and in cold conditions there are a lot of radiators in the basement demanding hot water. The 1/2" line that circulates glycol is mighty small to keep about 6 to 8 radiators satisfied.

Finally zone 1, the main area puts out heat but by the time the hot glycol gets to my dashboard toe heaters the air blowing out is lukewarm. The first zone, under the sink if fine, the radiator under the couch is warm. The
third radiator in series with the other two heaters, under the dashboard is disappointingly lukewarm.

In order to keep the coach comfortable (I should say from being uncomfortable.) I closed all the window coverings as tightly as I could. I turned the basement thermostat down to as low as it would go +/-40 degrees. I should tell you that Rich Archie's recent experience with freeze up should be kept in mind when setting the basement heat on minimum.

I chose not to run the electric heat that night. By morning the temperature in the coach, as I recall, was in the high 50's. I turned all the electric heaters on. The bottom line for me, in my coach, in single digit temperatures is to run the electric heaters.

In fact 98.9% of the time I run only electric heaters to heat the main cabin. I of course use the Aquahot to maintain above freezing conditions in the bays. The only time I ever use the AquaHot to heat the cabin is when I dry
camp. When I start dry camping in single digit temperatures is the time for some members of my family to commit me for my own safety.

After full timing for 7 years we've found that supplementing the two electric heaters that BB provided with one silent type heater near the dash board is quite satisfactory. The front, silent heater is on all the time and the other BB heaters trim the heat in the bus. I don't use the Aquahot because it is much louder than the electric heaters. Furthermore the AquaHot uses diesel. I pay for that. Typically I don't pay for electricity.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Eric Perplies
96' PT-42
currently in Las Vegas

[Wayne Kotila]

Marty insulating the hoses is a good idea and insulating the windows, I think those single pane windows are like large heat exchangers radiating cold into the rv.I took my inside glass surface temp using an infared temp sensor when it was about 22 deg F outside, the inside glass temp was 38 deg F. I had made a polycarbonate plastic storm window to test on one window in the coach and the inside tempon the window with that stormadded was 15 deg warmer (53 degF).

Wayne kotila

96PT42

---

From: 95 BMC 37
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 10:35:25 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Aqua Hot performance

If your 3 electric toe kick heaters will keep the coach warm and they produce a couple of thousand BTUs each, it only makes since that the A/H should do a better job as they produce 2 times the heat, each. There must be a problem? I do a lot of cold camping, last weekend it was 9 deg in Republic WA. and I keep the coach at the temp I wanted. I have done a few things to improve the system. All the hoses run along the side of the coach next to the exterior skin in the bays, so I moved them a little and encased them in pipe insulation everywhere I could, and two of the hoses ran outside to the front of the coach so I encased those in pipe insulation. One thing I do know is that the burner runs a lot when it's that cold, and diesel cost a lot, so I too heat with electric and supplement with the A/H. I also made window inserts out of ¼" white packing foam stuff, and keep the blinds down except in the sun.
Marty Gregg
95 BMC 37
Kennewick
WA