Fuel collecting/pooling in 3208 "valley"

[hsaddock]

Folks:
I finally moved the BB (first time since December) over the weekend
to work on exhaust shields and noticed fuel dripping from the engine
on to the driveway. I started to investigate the source and
determined that approximately a cup of fuel had accumulated over
time on the top of the engine between the heads, aft of the injector
pump and forward of the turbo charger. This space had filled with
fuel and the fuel was working its way out from the rear of this
valley and down the engine sides. I mopped the area clean of fuel
and saw no additional fuel appeared with the engine not running.
Later in the day, I fired up the engine to move the coach to the
back yard. Between building air pressure, moving the coach and
other activities, the engine idled for approx 15 min. After this, I
rechecked for fuel in the "valley" and a small amount had
reappeared, indicating some sort of leak when the engine is
running. I have the large box style air filter and turbo on my 3208
so visibility into this area is very difficult and I could not "see"
anything leaking fuel. Before I plunge into major disassembly, I
wanted to ask the group to see if anyone else had run into a similar
problem so I may have a list of what to check for before I begin.
If memory serves me, there was a discussion on this very topic
approx a year ago but I could not find it in the archives.
Harry Saddock
83FC35
South Windsor, CT

[John]

Harry,

I experienced a similar leak last year, while I was delivering for
Cliff Vaughn a 1980 FC 'Bird with a 3208NA engine, that he had sold
to Mark Loran in Nelson, BC, Canada. The cat dealer in davenport,
Iowa, replaced the throttle shaft seal and buttoned it back up, that
cured most of the leak, but there was another small leak that
appeared in the fuel pump, but I can't remember what that one was,
but the two repairs solved the problem.

The throttle shaft had started to create a small groove in the shaft
it self, but if my memory serves me right (dangerous area here) they
replaced the shaft and replaced the seal and that cured the leak, on
the shaft. I did not experience any more problems for the remainder
of the trip to Canada and I also have not heard from Mark about any
other problems with his 'Bird and he is probably busy building his
sprinklers during this busy season.

*** UPDATE***

I did a search of the archives using Dennis Nichols site;

http://tradingconnections.com/wlf/

I came up with my post after I got back home, which might clearify
the repairs that were done, here is part of that post;

I'm sure that you have heard this before, but you and Ernie are
continuing to do a fantastic job with this forum, but I must also add
that if it weren't for the contributions made by the other forum
members, the forum would not be what it is today. It was a valuable
asset to Mark and I, as I was bringing his new 'Bird to him in the
last couple of weeks, when I ran into problems, that I wasn't sure
about the cure and I didn't want to spend Marks money foolishly
either, a lot of the forum members helped out, on and off of the
forum, especially Jeff Miller (Mr. FC himself), who answered a lot of
questions that we both had.

I also have to give Dave, the service manager and Tony the mechanic,
at Altorfer Caterpillar in Davenport, Iowa, credit for informing me
of every step that they were to take before they did any work and
their patience, in waiting for us to check things out, before doing
any work on Marks 'Bird. They had never worked on a 'Bird before, but
had done a lot of Bluebird FC school bus repairs before, as a matter
of fact one came in to have the valves adjusted while Marks 'Bird was
being repaired. Considering all,of the work and time that was
involved in the repairs, Throttle shaft and seals replaced, R&R
Injector pump and cam shaft end seals replaced, new belts, new hoses,
R&R and repair radiator, I personally think that the cost of the
repairs were very reasonable and when they were done it was as clean
as when I brought it in.

I would recommend that other forum members make a note of this Cat
dealership, which is located just a mile north of I-280 at the first
exit, #8 (Hwy 22) after entering Iowa coming from Illinois;

Altorfer Inc.
4712 Buckeye St
Davenport, IA 52802
Main Phone: 563-324-1935 (Ask for Truck Service)
Fax: 563-324-2409

My thanks again to the forum members, for their help in making my
journey a lot easier, even though it took longer than expected, I
enjoyed it very much and gained a lot of valuable information and
insight, as to what to expect in the future with my 'Bird.

John Finn
Finn's Inn #6
'82 35FCRB
BLUEBIRD WANDERLODGE
HOPKINS, SOUTH CAROLINA
WELCOME TO THE FINN'S INN #6 ADVENTURE
TO VISIT, CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW
http://www.pbase.com/image/24977457

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "hsaddock"
wrote:
> Folks:
> I finally moved the BB (first time since December) over the weekend
> to work on exhaust shields and noticed fuel dripping from the
engine
> on to the driveway. I started to investigate the source and
> determined that approximately a cup of fuel had accumulated over
> time on the top of the engine between the heads, aft of the
injector
> pump and forward of the turbo charger. This space had filled with
> fuel and the fuel was working its way out from the rear of this
> valley and down the engine sides. I mopped the area clean of fuel
> and saw no additional fuel appeared with the engine not running.
> Later in the day, I fired up the engine to move the coach to the
> back yard. Between building air pressure, moving the coach and
> other activities, the engine idled for approx 15 min. After this,
I
> rechecked for fuel in the "valley" and a small amount had
> reappeared, indicating some sort of leak when the engine is
> running. I have the large box style air filter and turbo on my
3208
> so visibility into this area is very difficult and I could
not "see"
> anything leaking fuel. Before I plunge into major disassembly, I
> wanted to ask the group to see if anyone else had run into a
similar
> problem so I may have a list of what to check for before I begin.
> If memory serves me, there was a discussion on this very topic
> approx a year ago but I could not find it in the archives.
> Harry Saddock
> 83FC35
> South Windsor, CT

[Chet Geist]

Harry,

When I bought my 1981 and drove it home (about 40 miles) I had a valley with
fuel in it also. I ended up overhauling the injector pump and that solved
that problem. I also had a power steering pump replaced, water pump
replaced and radiator cleaned. All these problems because it had been
sitting for about 2 1/2 years without being driven. It has been running
great for the last three years now that it gets driven more often. It kind
of proves the saying "use it or lose it".

Chet Geist
1981 FC33, Austin, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of hsaddock
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:33 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Fuel collecting/pooling in 3208 "valley"


Folks:
I finally moved the BB (first time since December) over the weekend
to work on exhaust shields and noticed fuel dripping from the engine
on to the driveway. I started to investigate the source and
determined that approximately a cup of fuel had accumulated over
time on the top of the engine between the heads, aft of the injector
pump and forward of the turbo charger. This space had filled with
fuel and the fuel was working its way out from the rear of this
valley and down the engine sides. I mopped the area clean of fuel
and saw no additional fuel appeared with the engine not running.
Later in the day, I fired up the engine to move the coach to the
back yard. Between building air pressure, moving the coach and
other activities, the engine idled for approx 15 min. After this, I
rechecked for fuel in the "valley" and a small amount had
reappeared, indicating some sort of leak when the engine is
running. I have the large box style air filter and turbo on my 3208
so visibility into this area is very difficult and I could not "see"
anything leaking fuel. Before I plunge into major disassembly, I
wanted to ask the group to see if anyone else had run into a similar
problem so I may have a list of what to check for before I begin.
If memory serves me, there was a discussion on this very topic
approx a year ago but I could not find it in the archives.
Harry Saddock
83FC35
South Windsor, CT




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[hsaddock]

Thanks to those who have given me advice both on forum and off on
this topic! After doing some more investigative work, it appears
that the leak is coming from the seal where the throttle shaft
enters the housing on the back of the injector pump/governor
assembly. The there is no visible leakage at idle but it must be
leaking slightly at higher engine rpm as fuel in the valley does
reappear after a short run. Has anyone in the group replaced this
seal? Can it be done with the injector pump still mounted on the
engine or do I need to pull the pump to replace that seal? The
engine is an 83 250 hp 3208 turbo.
Thanks,
Harry Saddock
83FC35
South Windsor, CT

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chet Geist"
wrote:
>
>
> Harry,
>
> When I bought my 1981 and drove it home (about 40 miles) I had a
valley with
> fuel in it also. I ended up overhauling the injector pump and
that solved
> that problem. I also had a power steering pump replaced, water
pump
> replaced and radiator cleaned. All these problems because it had
been
> sitting for about 2 1/2 years without being driven. It has been
running
> great for the last three years now that it gets driven more
often. It kind
> of proves the saying "use it or lose it".
>
> Chet Geist
> 1981 FC33, Austin, Texas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of hsaddock
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:33 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Fuel collecting/pooling in
3208 "valley"
>
>
> Folks:
> I finally moved the BB (first time since December) over the
weekend
> to work on exhaust shields and noticed fuel dripping from the
engine
> on to the driveway. I started to investigate the source and
> determined that approximately a cup of fuel had accumulated over
> time on the top of the engine between the heads, aft of the
injector
> pump and forward of the turbo charger. This space had filled
with
> fuel and the fuel was working its way out from the rear of this
> valley and down the engine sides. I mopped the area clean of
fuel
> and saw no additional fuel appeared with the engine not running.
> Later in the day, I fired up the engine to move the coach to the
> back yard. Between building air pressure, moving the coach and
> other activities, the engine idled for approx 15 min. After
this, I
> rechecked for fuel in the "valley" and a small amount had
> reappeared, indicating some sort of leak when the engine is
> running. I have the large box style air filter and turbo on my
3208
> so visibility into this area is very difficult and I could
not "see"
> anything leaking fuel. Before I plunge into major disassembly, I
> wanted to ask the group to see if anyone else had run into a
similar
> problem so I may have a list of what to check for before I begin.
> If memory serves me, there was a discussion on this very topic
> approx a year ago but I could not find it in the archives.
> Harry Saddock
> 83FC35
> South Windsor, CT
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]