41',43' LXi Gross Axle Weight Ratings

[cmillsap]

(06-04-2013 19:56)encantotom Wrote:  i just weighed my 2002 newell so i thought i would share my data with you guys for fun.

tom

after we filled with fuel today we unhooked the car and weighed the coach.

we weighed with empty waste tank, full water tank and full fuel tank and darlene and i at our seats.

attached is the picture of the scale readout. it is a little confusing to me as it is lower than i expected.

my vin plate shows gross weight of 55,000 pounds with 12k at tag, 18k at steer and 25k at drive.

corresponding tire pressures on the vin plates for 215/88r22.5 lrl are

100psi at tag, 110psi at drive and 140 psi at steer

i have changed the steer to 365/70r22.5 lrl and have been running 115psi.

my scale readings were 9940lbs tag, 17500 steer and 23360 drive

for a total of 50,800

the michelin chart show that the tire pressures could be wayyy lower than what i am running. it was a cat certified scale.

tom

Tom,

I know so little about a Newell and why the weight that the steer axle carries is 17,500#s. Are the water and fuel tanks forward enough to cause the steer axle to carry so much weight? I do know that heavy A/C units are located in the front bays on some Newells. Comparatively speaking, that’s about 2000#s more (on average) than the heavy LXi carries on its steer axle.

I ask this because it appears that your tag axle is not carrying its fair share of the overall load.

On my former LXi, the tag was carrying 9500#s on a 13,200# rated axle. I was able to increase the tag axle loading to 11,200#s without overloading the steer axle which afterwards carried 14,000#s on a 14,600# rated axle. Man! What a difference it made in improving the drive ability of that bus. Loading the tag with its fair share of the weight caused the bus to become so much more stable.

I doubt that it is possible to reduce your steer axle loading as many Newell owners are just choosing to go to bigger steer tires for more comfort and safety. But if it were possible for you to reduce some of the loading on the steer axle by better weight distribution or carrying less fuel and water; the tag pressure could be increased to carry more of the load and I'd bet it would provide a better and more stable ride.

Chuck

[encantotom]

hi chuck,

there is no adjustment for the tag pressure like there is on older newells.

both of my dual basement airs are up front as well as the genny.

the fuel tank is directly in front of the drive axle and the wet bay directly in front of that. there are two storage bays up front.

i also went to the bigger tires and wheels that allow over 20k pounds.

my newell rides like a caddy and handles fantastic.

i was also surprised on how little was on the tag. but i checked with some of my newell buddies and theirs were similar

unless i carry nothing in my front two storage bays, which is not possible, i am not sure i am able to rebalance very much. side to side maybe, but not front to rear.

tom

[cmillsap]

(06-04-2013 17:13)timetravelers Wrote:  Chuck, my data placard above the windshield also says 14,600, so I guess it was never upgraded. Time for a diet.

Morey,

If you find after putting your bus on a diet that the steer axle is still loaded above its capacity; you may be able to take some of the weight off of it by decreasing the pressure on your tag axle. If your tag axle is presently loaded anywhere near its 13,200# capacity; you can lower your front axle load by lowering the tag air bags pressure. By doing so; some of the weight is taken off the front axle and applied to the drive axle. Just be careful not to overload the drive axle. Weighing each of the bus's axles after each pressure adjustment would be prudent. If you only have to lower the tag pressure a few hundred #s; you will not see too much difference in the bus's stability. Safe axle weights should take priority.

You should have a tag air pressure regulator located on the frame just above the center of the tag axle.

Chuck

[davidbrady]

It sure would be great to figure out what Blue Bird did to increase the capacity by 900 lbs. Morey, what's the weight rating on your Alcoa wheels? Its either wheels, hub assemblies with bearings and spindles, or tie rod ends.

[dentmac]

(06-04-2013 23:40)davidmbrady Wrote:  It sure would be great to figure out what Blue Bird did to increase the capacity by 900 lbs. Morey, what's the weight rating on your Alcoa wheels? Its either wheels, hub assemblies with bearings and spindles, or tie rod ends.

FYI There was no change for the ris13ef to the ris16ef for the 380. Same axle rated at ~14,000 to 16,000. Just a rating change after testing. The axle was then "Upgraded" to 17,000 . To do this, testing caused the failure of the tie rod. It was changed. The rest of the components remained but the testing requirements were reduced since it was a motorhome and its road life was not as high as the requirements for a transit bus.

SO-- there MAY be no difference in the axles on your rigs. (other then tires and wheels)

[davidbrady]

Those are my thoughts exactly Ross. The only modification Blue Bird may have done was to print a new label!

[cmillsap]

(06-05-2013 09:19)davidmbrady Wrote:  Those are my thoughts exactly Ross. The only modification Blue Bird may have done was to print a new label!

Maybe, David,

But I do have documentation showing my bus was taken to BB and the axle was "Changed". That documentation is in my black box and I don't have it at hand, so I'm going by memory of what I read. I am going to my bus later this week and I will post exactly what my records show. That may shed some light on the extent of changes made to upgrade the axle from 14,6003#s to 16,000#s

Chuck

[pgchin]

I think is is a good thing (excellent thread idea here) that people are aware of their axle ratings, tires, rims, etc. You cannot be too careful! Most people run in the warmer months so road temps are higher, etc. With that said here are some practical suggestions that will assist newer owners in weight management:
1) IF you carry more "junk" in storage, THEN run 1/2-2/3 full fuel, .....this item alone will afford you more weight. Me I run "no junk" and ship everything home, but that's just me!
2) Weigh your coach every year with full fuel, and 30-50 gallons of water combined in all 3 tanks, try to run with no more than 100 gallons combined in all tanks at all times. I realize for boondocking, etc you will not be able to do this so for every gallon / 7lbs you have run over 100, try to remove fuel or junk weight to compensate, use the toad to offload the must bring junk! a good time is the start of the very first trip of the season with food, clothes,etc.
3) Inspect and grease the front end annually, check king pins, steering linkages, ball joints, tie rod ends,etc. Replace tie rod ends after 10-15 years, they take a lot of the stress in i-beam systems, they are easy to get, and are not very expensive, its good preventive maintenance. Replace anything else above if they are out of specification.
4) Manage your tires age and air pressures. I am NOT going to say anything else about tires..... or the HUGE Ukeleles will start playing! All I am going to say is to go the the tire manufacturer website and download the tirebooks and follow THEIR recommendations! Every tire belt package is different so there really is no common rules, for instance 12r g149's run a 4 ply steel belt package and the run temps are 10-15 degrees higher then a 12r xze with synthetic belt packages. Rubber compounds are designed differently for each belt package system, no two are alike, etc.
5) I-beams have been around for a LONG time, they are tough, take abuse and usually well underrated, so if you watch tie rods, tires, rims, etc and pay attention to your birdies weight and practice weight management on every leg of your journey, you will reduce the chances of front end failure. Most of all, if the road temps are High, slow down, I run about 62 most no matter what. My OO must have broke the s60 in at that speed because it just loves it from a fuel mileage and all around performance perspective. Obviously yours will vary but higher speeds, higher tire temps, get an IR temp gun and measure temp at the tire shoulder when you stop! it takes 5 minutes and we have to stop every 2-3 hours anyway for the 2- 4 legged dogs AND the old 2 legged dog driving!!!!-ummm yes me!

Update, David, I just saw your comment about the "bottle" in the next post! I was drinking tea when reading and almost gave the laptop a tea bath from laughing so hard!!!!!!! So funny!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!!! It reminded me of a story about when I was 4-5 years old driving around with my Dad in his 52 Buick straight eight. I had to "tinkle" every 10 minutes so he finally got tired of stopping, gave me a bottle with a screw top and told me to go in the back seat and use it,and WATCH my aim!!!!! TOOO funny, thanks for the memory triggers!

[davidbrady]

Great advice Pete. To me a tire pressure monitoring system is a must have, but other's mileage may differ. Me too, 63mph. You're a lucky man, my wife doesn't let me stop, she just hands me a bottle! LOL

Hi Chuck, for the 14600 to 16000 lb upgrade I have no doubt about the new I-beam. My question is concerning the 15500 lb upgrade. I'll see if I can get George Morris on the phone. He may know.

[timetravelers]

David, my Alcoa wheels are rated at 9000 lbs, so we're safe there.

Our new toad is a Honda with a towing limit of 65mph. Our trip from FL to OR at 55-65, depending on the state, resulted at our mileage increasing from the low 6s to 7 mpg. And running slower is a lot easier driving!

I've done a lot of temp checks with the IR gun on the M brand, and the highest I've seen so far is 135 degrees. I measure at the base of the tread groove, since my RayTek has a double laser that gives a precise location when you get both spots overlapped.

Thanks Pete for the great advise.

Chuck, thanks for the reminder about regulating the tag pressure. My FO Dick Warren moved the regulator from underneath to the forward wall of the battery compartment, so it is easy to change it.