Painting in Mexico

[tom240842@...]

Here is hoping with only 13 shopping days left until Christmas that y'all
are keeping your stress levels manageable. Peggy and I are taking life easy
here in Charleston, heading down to Savannah on the 15th to spend a few days,
tour houses, eat with Paula Dean and then back up here for Christmas.

After seeing several coaches that have been painted in Algodones Mexico, and
talking with one of the owners, we are going to take the coach over to Yuma
the end of March, they will come look at the coach in Yuma, assess what it
will take and what we will have done, then we will drive the coach across the
border and have it painted. I am of the mind that I will rent a storage shed
in Yuma, and store everything out of my bays and storage pods. As I
understand from George Lowry we will be in a enclosed compound, but at the
border I
don't want to have to unload all "our stuff" at the whim of some border guard.

There are a couple of things I would like some opinions on:

1) the left rear compartment door. I have a 33 footer so the docking light
is in the door. I got too close to a concrete post and flatten the rub rail
on the bottom of the compartment door. Not only did I flatten the rub rail
but warped the door. Those of you that know how these are constructed, would
it be easier just to get a new(er) door than have the rub rail replaced if
possible and the door straightened?

2) when Blue Bird constructed my 'goat rail' on top, they used steel rivets
through the aluminum railing. Over the years these have all rusted. I would
like the railing left original (I have seen painted ones and would rather
clean up the rail) When I put the railing back together, would it be better to
use stainless steel screws or put the same rivets in? And will it make any
difference if I do this, if I use aluminum rivets?

3) the front covers for my radiator, and both headlight housing sides have
the hex nut screws. These were originally painted. If I have them paint
these, they are going to have to do them individually, then screw them back in.
How can I prevent the paint from getting knocked off them again? Somewhere,
maybe JC Whitney, I think I saw a wrench set with nylon inserts for
protecting painted fasteners. Would that work with these?

4) I do not have any leaks up on top from the many screws that hold my
"diamond deck plating" to the roof. Is it going to be worth the time and
trouble
of having them remove the A/C units, the roof vents, the deck plating, just
to paint underneath it.

I don't have but a couple of dents to have pulled and the rust is minimal,
however because some repainted the front and rear caps before I got the
coaches, rivets in those areas are starting to rust. The rain rail will have
to be
taken off, cleaned up, straightened and I would assume that they would
remove the all the awnings rather than mask and paint around them, I would
want
them removed anyhow, as I would the marker lights and all the chrome.

Any other suggests would be welcome.

Tom Meservey, USN (Ret)
'81FC33' brrrrrrrrr in Charleston at 37 degrees


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

I have some responses for your particular questions:
----- Original Message -----
From: tom240842@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:42 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Painting in Mexico


Here is hoping with only 13 shopping days left until Christmas that y'all
are keeping your stress levels manageable. Peggy and I are taking life easy
here in Charleston, heading down to Savannah on the 15th to spend a few days,
tour houses, eat with Paula Dean and then back up here for Christmas.

After seeing several coaches that have been painted in Algodones Mexico, and
talking with one of the owners, we are going to take the coach over to Yuma
the end of March, they will come look at the coach in Yuma, assess what it
will take and what we will have done, then we will drive the coach across the
border and have it painted. I am of the mind that I will rent a storage shed
in Yuma, and store everything out of my bays and storage pods. As I
understand from George Lowry we will be in a enclosed compound, but at the
border I
don't want to have to unload all "our stuff" at the whim of some border
guard.

There are a couple of things I would like some opinions on:

1) the left rear compartment door. I have a 33 footer so the docking light
is in the door. I got too close to a concrete post and flatten the rub rail
on the bottom of the compartment door. Not only did I flatten the rub rail
but warped the door. Those of you that know how these are constructed, would
it be easier just to get a new(er) door than have the rub rail replaced if
possible and the door straightened?

>I vote for a new door, repair as a last resort.


2) when Blue Bird constructed my 'goat rail' on top, they used steel rivets
through the aluminum railing. Over the years these have all rusted. I would
like the railing left original (I have seen painted ones and would rather
clean up the rail) When I put the railing back together, would it be better
to
use stainless steel screws or put the same rivets in? And will it make any
difference if I do this, if I use aluminum rivets?

>Use stainless for all fasteners. Go to a good hardware store and buy your
own, don't expect a body shop to find
quality parts for you. Cheaper to BYO too.

3) the front covers for my radiator, and both headlight housing sides have
the hex nut screws. These were originally painted. If I have them paint
these, they are going to have to do them individually, then screw them back
in.
How can I prevent the paint from getting knocked off them again? Somewhere,
maybe JC Whitney, I think I saw a wrench set with nylon inserts for
protecting painted fasteners. Would that work with these?

>I bought a box of replacement cadium plated bolts from Fastenal and use
rubberized washers underneath.
Thread size is 1/4 20.

4) I do not have any leaks up on top from the many screws that hold my
"diamond deck plating" to the roof. Is it going to be worth the time and
trouble
of having them remove the A/C units, the roof vents, the deck plating, just
to paint underneath it.

>I did and I'm glad, but it cost about 20 hours extra. I installed new vents
and new AC gaskets. It was a task.
Frankly it might be a little hard to justify in your situation, but you don't
want stuff getting under the plate during
the painting prep process.

I don't have but a couple of dents to have pulled and the rust is minimal,
however because some repainted the front and rear caps before I got the
coaches, rivets in those areas are starting to rust. The rain rail will have
to be
taken off, cleaned up, straightened and I would assume that they would
remove the all the awnings rather than mask and paint around them, I would
want
them removed anyhow, as I would the marker lights and all the chrome.

>Assume nothing. One thing to consider would be a contract with a end game
clause. A starting point would the shops
time estimate, be willing to give a nice "tip" for good productivity and
quality. Suggest the shop be willing to endure a
penalty if the job drags on too long. My job took 7 months, I wanted to
hurt the guy sometimes, but the job came out
pretty well. I have received many compliments.
Mike Hohnstein

Any other suggests would be welcome.

Tom Meservey, USN (Ret)
'81FC33' brrrrrrrrr in Charleston at 37 degrees


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Tim Hannink]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, tom240842@a... wrote:
> 3) the front covers for my radiator, and both headlight housing
sides have
> the hex nut screws. These were originally painted. If I have them
paint
> these, they are going to have to do them individually, then screw
them back in.
> How can I prevent the paint from getting knocked off them again?
Somewhere,
> maybe JC Whitney, I think I saw a wrench set with nylon inserts for
> protecting painted fasteners. Would that work with these?

When I repaint the front of mine, I'll either install dzus fasteners
or 1/4-20 stainless bolts with recessed allen heads. If I replace the
stock panels with polished aluminum or stainless ones, I'll probably
go with the dzus fasteners.

Another option would be some snap-on bolt head covers; paint to match
or get chrome ones.

Thanks,

TJ Hannink
Winter Park, FL
1981 FC-33SB

[guysmalley]

what is the price difference between painting in mexico vs us? lets say you save
$5000 you
have it painted there is a problem what do you do? they have your bus can you
sue them?
good luck. I would also check with your insurance company in the event your bus
disappears
from the compound unattended, I would also wonder why its gated etc. when I had
my bus
painted it was agreed that it was inside storage till the job was done.
To me it is worth shopping round finding caftsman that are into the skill & art
required for
something you will be living with for many years. imagine how you would feel if
you pick up
the bus and the job is marginal because the crew that worked on your bus is
different than
who worked on the buses you saw as examples of work done. I think you would be
very
unhappy
personally I would never do it
good luck

guy smalley
86 pt40

[Jerry]

Most of the work on a job like this one is hard nasty manual labor. It is
also important that it is supervised by a knowledgeable and conscientious
person to see it is done correctly and completely. This paint prep work you
will not see or if you do you probably are not experienced in what is
correct or incorrect procedures. The paint covers up all of this work and
you won't know it was done incorrectly or haphazardly until it is too late.
Also, a base coat clear coat job is the only way to go nowadays and that
final clear coat can have runs, dirt, insects, etc. sanded out, water
sanded, buffed and looks great. A bad paint job and be made to look
wonderful with a lot of color sanding and buffing. By all means, insist on
top quality name brand paint products such as Dupont.



Jerry Lowe

Looking





_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of guysmalley
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:11 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Painting in Mexico



what is the price difference between painting in mexico vs us? lets say you
save $5000 you
have it painted there is a problem what do you do? they have your bus can
you sue them?
good luck. I would also check with your insurance company in the event your
bus disappears
from the compound unattended, I would also wonder why its gated etc. when I
had my bus
painted it was agreed that it was inside storage till the job was done.
To me it is worth shopping round finding caftsman that are into the skill &
art required for
something you will be living with for many years. imagine how you would feel
if you pick up
the bus and the job is marginal because the crew that worked on your bus is
different than
who worked on the buses you saw as examples of work done. I think you would
be very
unhappy
personally I would never do it
good luck

guy smalley
86 pt40






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[Gregory OConnor]

Mike gives good advice for job completion details. I find craftsmen
in Mexico trustful and honest but slow. I would motivate completion
by scheduling pay draws ie prep, undercoat, colorcoat, clearcoat,
reassembly. This way you control the progress. I like to stay
removed from any deviation of the contract by acting as a
representative of the owner. Owners complain and bitch, whereas
a 'rep of the owner' respectfuly demands.
Greg O'Connor
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@w...> wrote:
>
> I have some responses for your particular questions:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tom240842@a...
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:42 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Painting in Mexico
>
>
> Here is hoping with only 13 shopping days left until Christmas
that y'all
> are keeping your stress levels manageable. Peggy and I are
taking life easy
> here in Charleston, heading down to Savannah on the 15th to spend
a few days,
> tour houses, eat with Paula Dean and then back up here for
Christmas.
>
> After seeing several coaches that have been painted in Algodones
Mexico, and
> talking with one of the owners, we are going to take the coach
over to Yuma
> the end of March, they will come look at the coach in Yuma,
assess what it
> will take and what we will have done, then we will drive the
coach across the
> border and have it painted. I am of the mind that I will rent a
storage shed
> in Yuma, and store everything out of my bays and storage pods.
As I
> understand from George Lowry we will be in a enclosed compound,
but at the border I
> don't want to have to unload all "our stuff" at the whim of some
border guard.
>
> There are a couple of things I would like some opinions on:
>
> 1) the left rear compartment door. I have a 33 footer so the
docking light
> is in the door. I got too close to a concrete post and flatten
the rub rail
> on the bottom of the compartment door. Not only did I flatten
the rub rail
> but warped the door. Those of you that know how these are
constructed, would
> it be easier just to get a new(er) door than have the rub rail
replaced if
> possible and the door straightened?
>
> >I vote for a new door, repair as a last resort.
>
>
> 2) when Blue Bird constructed my 'goat rail' on top, they used
steel rivets
> through the aluminum railing. Over the years these have all
rusted. I would
> like the railing left original (I have seen painted ones and
would rather
> clean up the rail) When I put the railing back together, would
it be better to
> use stainless steel screws or put the same rivets in? And will
it make any
> difference if I do this, if I use aluminum rivets?
>
> >Use stainless for all fasteners. Go to a good hardware store
and buy your own, don't expect a body shop to find
> quality parts for you. Cheaper to BYO too.
>
> 3) the front covers for my radiator, and both headlight housing
sides have
> the hex nut screws. These were originally painted. If I have
them paint
> these, they are going to have to do them individually, then
screw them back in.
> How can I prevent the paint from getting knocked off them
again? Somewhere,
> maybe JC Whitney, I think I saw a wrench set with nylon inserts
for
> protecting painted fasteners. Would that work with these?
>
> >I bought a box of replacement cadium plated bolts from Fastenal
and use rubberized washers underneath.
> Thread size is 1/4 20.
>
> 4) I do not have any leaks up on top from the many screws that
hold my
> "diamond deck plating" to the roof. Is it going to be worth the
time and trouble
> of having them remove the A/C units, the roof vents, the deck
plating, just
> to paint underneath it.
>
> >I did and I'm glad, but it cost about 20 hours extra. I
installed new vents and new AC gaskets. It was a task.
> Frankly it might be a little hard to justify in your situation,
but you don't want stuff getting under the plate during
> the painting prep process.
>
> I don't have but a couple of dents to have pulled and the rust
is minimal,
> however because some repainted the front and rear caps before I
got the
> coaches, rivets in those areas are starting to rust. The rain
rail will have to be
> taken off, cleaned up, straightened and I would assume that they
would
> remove the all the awnings rather than mask and paint around
them, I would want
> them removed anyhow, as I would the marker lights and all the
chrome.
>
> >Assume nothing. One thing to consider would be a contract with
a end game clause. A starting point would the shops
> time estimate, be willing to give a nice "tip" for good
productivity and quality. Suggest the shop be willing to endure a
> penalty if the job drags on too long. My job took 7 months, I
wanted to hurt the guy sometimes, but the job came out
> pretty well. I have received many compliments.
> Mike Hohnstein
>
> Any other suggests would be welcome.
>
> Tom Meservey, USN (Ret)
> '81FC33' brrrrrrrrr in Charleston at 37 degrees
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive
maintenance
> Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles
Automotive radiators
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[guysmalley]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> Mike gives good advice for job completion details. I find craftsmen
> in Mexico trustful and honest but slow. I would motivate completion
> by scheduling pay draws ie prep, undercoat, colorcoat, clearcoat,
> reassembly. This way you control the progress. I like to stay
> removed from any deviation of the contract by acting as a
> representative of the owner. Owners complain and bitch, whereas
> a 'rep of the owner' respectfuly demands.
> Greg O'Connor

Greg
In your exprience you have worked with trust worthy people. but not all are so
what
happens then, you have a major investment in the hands of people who are outside
our
legal system. when you compare the cost of the coach to the amount saved vs
risk. not a
good gamble. We all are in business yes it is cheaper but I look at the fact I
can support a
company in my case Truckcenters inc who painted my coach using people of all
backgrounds whos average time there is 16 years. yes I could have shopped around
but I
could talk directly to the crew who was on my project, they had my number and no
money
changed hands til they finnished. Those craftsmen buy stuff, stuff I produce so
the circle
goes around, yes it is a globle community but I would like all countries
competeing on an
equal ground
my two cents
guy smalley

[Gregory OConnor]

Guy, you got to go where you feel comfortable but autobody paint is
not an art it is a science. You buy paint for your profession and
where you apply it is an art, how you apply it is a science
determined by the paint manufactures. The chemicals that are
allowable in Mexico are longer lasting proven paints and if the
applicators are scientist and not artist every thing will be ok. I
just dropped a piece of concrete on a 2003 Nissan Altima. ( my job
has no art) The Artist in the body shop wanted $2800.00 for the
repair. My Liability insurance company hired an adjuster who quoted
$1,300. and the origional shop said they would honor that quote.--
CON ARTIST, $1500.00 off over the phone!!!.-- I did the prep work
and contracted a dealer to apply the paint for under $600. I have a
Million dollar liability policy that cost $9000. per the year and I
have to post a $5000. bond to get the premiums that low. The
insurance game has pumped up the cost of autobody so much in the
states that the Artist bodyshops dont have the time to do private
work claims. They dont give private work a brake they just charge
closer to reasonable. Maybe I should have spent the $2800. and
passed the cost onto honest hard working customers. I pass the
insurance premiums on! . It takes 7 months to paint a bus because too
many unshopped insurance work comes in and the private work gets
sidelined. I think giving in to the insurance game is bad for the
country. If you go to mexico and save $15,000.00 that is money you
can spend in our economy for productive things like .... New concrete
in your driveway..... or Art work for your house.... or airoperated
dump valves on your bus.

Gregory O'Connor
Dino Bus conversion, TJ Mexico


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"

> wrote:
> >
> > Mike gives good advice for job completion details. I find
craftsmen
> > in Mexico trustful and honest but slow. I would motivate
completion
> > by scheduling pay draws ie prep, undercoat, colorcoat, clearcoat,
> > reassembly. This way you control the progress. I like to stay
> > removed from any deviation of the contract by acting as a
> > representative of the owner. Owners complain and bitch, whereas
> > a 'rep of the owner' respectfuly demands.
> > Greg O'Connor
>
> Greg
> In your exprience you have worked with trust worthy people. but not
all are so what
> happens then, you have a major investment in the hands of people
who are outside our
> legal system. when you compare the cost of the coach to the amount
saved vs risk. not a
> good gamble. We all are in business yes it is cheaper but I look at
the fact I can support a
> company in my case Truckcenters inc who painted my coach using
people of all
> backgrounds whos average time there is 16 years. yes I could have
shopped around but I
> could talk directly to the crew who was on my project, they had my
number and no money
> changed hands til they finnished. Those craftsmen buy stuff, stuff
I produce so the circle
> goes around, yes it is a globle community but I would like all
countries competeing on an
> equal ground
> my two cents
> guy smalley
>

[guysmalley]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> Guy, you got to go where you feel comfortable but autobody paint is
> not an art it is a science. You buy paint for your profession and
> where you apply it is an art, how you apply it is a science
> determined by the paint manufactures. The chemicals that are
> allowable in Mexico are longer lasting proven paints and if the
> applicators are scientist and not artist every thing will be ok. I
> just dropped a piece of concrete on a 2003 Nissan Altima. ( my job
> has no art) The Artist in the body shop wanted $2800.00 for the
> repair. My Liability insurance company hired an adjuster who quoted
> $1,300. and the origional shop said they would honor that quote.--
> CON ARTIST, $1500.00 off over the phone!!!.-- I did the prep work
> and contracted a dealer to apply the paint for under $600. I have a
> Million dollar liability policy that cost $9000. per the year and I
> have to post a $5000. bond to get the premiums that low. The
> insurance game has pumped up the cost of autobody so much in the
> states that the Artist bodyshops dont have the time to do private
> work claims. They dont give private work a brake they just charge
> closer to reasonable. Maybe I should have spent the $2800. and
> passed the cost onto honest hard working customers. I pass the
> insurance premiums on! . It takes 7 months to paint a bus because too
> many unshopped insurance work comes in and the private work gets
> sidelined. I think giving in to the insurance game is bad for the
> country. If you go to mexico and save $15,000.00 that is money you
> can spend in our economy for productive things like .... New concrete
> in your driveway..... or Art work for your house.... or airoperated
> dump valves on your bus.
>
> Gregory O'Connor
> Dino Bus conversion, TJ Mexico
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike gives good advice for job completion details. I find
> craftsmen
> > > in Mexico trustful and honest but slow. I would motivate
> completion
> > > by scheduling pay draws ie prep, undercoat, colorcoat, clearcoat,
> > > reassembly. This way you control the progress. I like to stay
> > > removed from any deviation of the contract by acting as a
> > > representative of the owner. Owners complain and bitch, whereas
> > > a 'rep of the owner' respectfuly demands.
> > > Greg O'Connor
> >
> > Greg
> > In your exprience you have worked with trust worthy people. but not
> all are so what
> > happens then, you have a major investment in the hands of people
> who are outside our
> > legal system. when you compare the cost of the coach to the amount
> saved vs risk. not a
> > good gamble. We all are in business yes it is cheaper but I look at
> the fact I can support a
> > company in my case Truckcenters inc who painted my coach using
> people of all
> > backgrounds whos average time there is 16 years. yes I could have
> shopped around but I
> > could talk directly to the crew who was on my project, they had my
> number and no money
> > changed hands til they finnished. Those craftsmen buy stuff, stuff
> I produce so the circle
> > goes around, yes it is a globle community but I would like all
> countries competeing on an
> > equal ground
> > my two cents
> > guy smalley
Greg
You have a point with insurance companies, and mexicans as a whole are hard
working
people, but in my case the insurance company gave me options of places to go I
was allow
to help in finding parts i knew what the % of value they would pay so with the
help of
forums like this I found the parts work with the company and was very satisfied,
15.000
dollar difference is amazing. but as others have mention it is the prep work
that keeps a
paint job lasting. I hope for it works out for whoever goes south it is
certainly everybodies
choice which I respect. It is when things go wrong and they do here & there. it
is a major
headache. I was just pointing out my view.
guy smalley
86pt40

[George Lowry]

When I had my coach painted in MX, One of the owners actually lived in
Yuma, AZ and the paint was purchased in Yuma. We stayed in the coach
during the process andd watched/supervised the whole process. No money
changed hands until the job was done and we were satisfied. Much
better than the previous job I had done in Sacramento. We also were
able to talk to the workers as well as the boss.

George Lowry
'95 WBDA 4203
Spearfish, SD


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"

> wrote:
> >
> > Mike gives good advice for job completion details. I find craftsmen
> > in Mexico trustful and honest but slow. I would motivate completion
> > by scheduling pay draws ie prep, undercoat, colorcoat, clearcoat,
> > reassembly. This way you control the progress. I like to stay
> > removed from any deviation of the contract by acting as a
> > representative of the owner. Owners complain and bitch, whereas
> > a 'rep of the owner' respectfuly demands.
> > Greg O'Connor
>
> Greg
> In your exprience you have worked with trust worthy people. but not
all are so what
> happens then, you have a major investment in the hands of people who
are outside our
> legal system. when you compare the cost of the coach to the amount
saved vs risk. not a
> good gamble. We all are in business yes it is cheaper but I look at
the fact I can support a
> company in my case Truckcenters inc who painted my coach using
people of all
> backgrounds whos average time there is 16 years. yes I could have
shopped around but I
> could talk directly to the crew who was on my project, they had my
number and no money
> changed hands til they finnished. Those craftsmen buy stuff, stuff I
produce so the circle
> goes around, yes it is a globle community but I would like all
countries competeing on an
> equal ground
> my two cents
> guy smalley
>