buying a Bluebird

[birdshill123]

I am an experienced RV'r and have restored in the past 2 old units. A
69 Winnie and 65 Cortez. We have an 02 Bounder DP but I am bored. We
live in Mexico 6 months of the year and have travelled south in our
truck campers here a lot. I would not take my Bounder to the South. SO
I thought maybe an older BB would be strong enough to handle the bad
roads. I am a former Hot Rodder and can do mechanical work that is not
too intense. Have been an FMCA memeber for more than 20 years and seen
lots of BB's at rallies but never paid too much attention. I have a
million questions. What is a PT? Fc is of course a Forward control.
When did they go to air brakes? Are the air brakes better than the
hydraulic? When did air suspension become standard? Is the 3208NA
underpowered? First year for Turbo? Are they all Allison 4 speed?
Perhaps you can steer me to a website with some of the answers? I was
thinking of something under $40,000, maybe less. 1986 or newer. Is that
possible? Thanks and I will have more questions.

Bruce

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

Welcome to the Forum Bruce:

The PT is Pusher with a tag axle. An SP is an Pusher with a single axle.
and of course the FC is Forward Control.

Vintage Birds has a pretty comprehensive listing of the years of Bird's and
when the up grades took place.

The Na is underpowered. (before the guys jump on me) but if set up right
and proper preventative maintenance maintains road speed well but suffers
in the hills. Turbo's came into being in late '83 '84 Models. Tha Allison
four speed is the primary in the FC's However in the PT's the 5 speed was
used on the 6v92 Silvers until around '85 or so then in '86 the Pt's went
to the 8v92.

The '86 and newer FC's will run in the neighborhood of $55K or so depending
on condition. The air ride started in the late 70's I believe and air
breaks came in the 70's. Air breaks are superior to the hydraulic as far as
I am concerned.

The Bird's are solid heavy and made to last as is attested by the vintage
Bird's on the road today. Will they hold up in Mexico, yes as there are
several Bird owners who frequent South of the Boarder.

Good luck in your search.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm

At 11:01 PM 3/4/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>I am an experienced RV'r and have restored in the past 2 old units. A
>69 Winnie and 65 Cortez. We have an 02 Bounder DP but I am bored. We
>live in Mexico 6 months of the year and have travelled south in our
>truck campers here a lot. I would not take my Bounder to the South. SO
>I thought maybe an older BB would be strong enough to handle the bad
>roads. I am a former Hot Rodder and can do mechanical work that is not
>too intense. Have been an FMCA memeber for more than 20 years and seen
>lots of BB's at rallies but never paid too much attention. I have a
>million questions. What is a PT? Fc is of course a Forward control.
>When did they go to air brakes? Are the air brakes better than the
>hydraulic? When did air suspension become standard? Is the 3208NA
>underpowered? First year for Turbo? Are they all Allison 4 speed?
>Perhaps you can steer me to a website with some of the answers? I was
>thinking of something under $40,000, maybe less. 1986 or newer. Is that
>possible? Thanks and I will have more questions.
>
>Bruce
>
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Hi Bruce, email me off forum mhohnstein@.... I might have something for
you. At the least plenty of candid information, as I am deep into the second
BlueBird FC restoration in 24 months.
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
83FC35
----- Original Message -----
From: birdshill123
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:01 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] buying a Bluebird


I am an experienced RV'r and have restored in the past 2 old units. A
69 Winnie and 65 Cortez. We have an 02 Bounder DP but I am bored. We
live in Mexico 6 months of the year and have travelled south in our
truck campers here a lot. I would not take my Bounder to the South. SO
I thought maybe an older BB would be strong enough to handle the bad
roads. I am a former Hot Rodder and can do mechanical work that is not
too intense. Have been an FMCA memeber for more than 20 years and seen
lots of BB's at rallies but never paid too much attention. I have a
million questions. What is a PT? Fc is of course a Forward control.
When did they go to air brakes? Are the air brakes better than the
hydraulic? When did air suspension become standard? Is the 3208NA
underpowered? First year for Turbo? Are they all Allison 4 speed?
Perhaps you can steer me to a website with some of the answers? I was
thinking of something under $40,000, maybe less. 1986 or newer. Is that
possible? Thanks and I will have more questions.

Bruce







SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance
Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive
radiators


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bruce Morris]

Bruce, actually when I was researching Blue Birds one of the things that
impressed me was the fact that a lot were sold to south American countries
because they were the only buses that would hold up to the conditions. After
years of Blue Bird experience, I share that opinion.

Bruce Morris (919)872-7635 Raleigh, NC
Webmaster - Wanderlodge Owners Online
1983 WL FC35RB

FMCA: 7142s Ham Radio: KI4ME
Vietnam Vet - 1966-67 'Doc' (Navy Corpsman) 3rd MarDiv
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph L. Fullenwider
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] buying a Bluebird


Welcome to the Forum Bruce:

The PT is Pusher with a tag axle. An SP is an Pusher with a single axle.
and of course the FC is Forward Control.

Vintage Birds has a pretty comprehensive listing of the years of Bird's and
when the up grades took place.

The Na is underpowered. (before the guys jump on me) but if set up right
and proper preventative maintenance maintains road speed well but suffers
in the hills. Turbo's came into being in late '83 '84 Models. Tha Allison
four speed is the primary in the FC's However in the PT's the 5 speed was
used on the 6v92 Silvers until around '85 or so then in '86 the Pt's went
to the 8v92.

The '86 and newer FC's will run in the neighborhood of $55K or so depending
on condition. The air ride started in the late 70's I believe and air
breaks came in the 70's. Air breaks are superior to the hydraulic as far as
I am concerned.

The Bird's are solid heavy and made to last as is attested by the vintage
Bird's on the road today. Will they hold up in Mexico, yes as there are
several Bird owners who frequent South of the Boarder.

Good luck in your search.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm

At 11:01 PM 3/4/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>I am an experienced RV'r and have restored in the past 2 old units. A
>69 Winnie and 65 Cortez. We have an 02 Bounder DP but I am bored. We
>live in Mexico 6 months of the year and have travelled south in our
>truck campers here a lot. I would not take my Bounder to the South. SO
>I thought maybe an older BB would be strong enough to handle the bad
>roads. I am a former Hot Rodder and can do mechanical work that is not
>too intense. Have been an FMCA memeber for more than 20 years and seen
>lots of BB's at rallies but never paid too much attention. I have a
>million questions. What is a PT? Fc is of course a Forward control.
>When did they go to air brakes? Are the air brakes better than the
>hydraulic? When did air suspension become standard? Is the 3208NA
>underpowered? First year for Turbo? Are they all Allison 4 speed?
>Perhaps you can steer me to a website with some of the answers? I was
>thinking of something under $40,000, maybe less. 1986 or newer. Is that
>possible? Thanks and I will have more questions.
>
>Bruce
>
>



SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance
Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive
radiators


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

It appears that some potential BB buyers think its the
responsibility of the owner of a motorhome to point out all of the
defects on it, when its actually YOU that are responsible for
educating yourself to spot the ones the problems that are important
and those that are not. Then the decision is yours which ones you can
live with. I do believe that the owner has the responsibility to be
truthful in describing any problems he is aware of as well as
truthfully replying to any questions the potential buyer asks, but
even then you may not be getting what you think you are getting.
Consider that the owner of the motorhome may be as uninformed as to
the BB condition as you may be in understanding how to find the
problems. Realize that once you plunk the cash down and sign the
papers the coach is yours and even if the owner lied about things
when describing the condition of the coach it will be very expensive
to sue to get the money back. . So whats the solution?

1. Belong to a forum like this and ask questions BEFORE you buy as
well as after if something goes wrong and needs fixing. No question
is stupid unless you dont ask it. Unasked questions before the sale
may be very expensive to fix after. Wasnt it Ben Franklin that said
"make a decision in haste and repent at your leisure"?

2. Use the Vintagebirds checklist when you go over the motorhome and
ask the owner to go over it with you also. You may even consider to
have him go over it before you travel there to see the coach and then
send you the results of the checklist.

3. Understand that every motorhome has a few problems some of which
are important to the owner and some that are not. Its up to you to
ask the questions that will identify them.

4. Be truthful and start with a realistic budget to buy and maintain
the coach. Dont start looking at $100,000 Bluebirds if your budget
will only cover an $50,000 one.

5. Make an honest assessment of how much of the maintenance and
repairs on the BB you can accomplish yourself and what improvements
you have to hire out.

6. Know how much tires, a transmission service and oil change costs
if you are unable or unwilling to do it yourself and the coach you
are going to buy needs them. It can get expensive fast!

7. If you are married (or not) talk over what you will use the coach
for and how often. If you are only going to take the kids on a trip
once a year and use if on weekends for short trips a FC model may
just be the ticket. Full timers may be only comfortable with a 45'
BB, although I personally know some that live very nicely in a FC33.
Different strokes for different folks.

8. In my opinion the FC model is easier to work on, costs less, is
cheaper to maintain including replacement engines and transmissions,
and has less depreciation then either a SP or PT models. I have both
a 1982 FC35 and a 1985 PT40. It is far easier to change the
alternator on the FC, change the belts or work on the injection pump
etc (unless you are a very little, little,person). The FC models are
also not as large and heavy as either the SP or PT models. In other
words the FC models can go places that that the others cannot. So
spend some time and plan carefully what you intend to do with the
coach and then you can make an informed decision and pick the coach
that meets your requirements.

9. Financing. Financing for almost any year coach is available. If
your local bank will not finance it, then there are many places that
will. The better your credit record the easier it will be.

Good luck and ask lots of questions

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1982 FC35(for sale soon)
1985 PT40

[George Lowry]

Tom,

Excellent advice. When we went to get our bird, it was from a dealer.
Unfortunately I knew more than they did about the bird and I knew nothing. I
did not find this forum until after we had the bird at home. I must say that
Bennie and Earl were of a great help. I easily spent over $10K getting our
bird in the shape I wanted..... Then the wife wanted slide outs... 8-(

FWIW, for those that keep track of such things, my email address is now


George Lowry
'06 Alpine Apex - Formerly '95 WBDA 4203
Spearfish, SD - now in TTN Las Vegas



-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom Warner
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 4:32 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Buying a Bluebird


It appears that some potential BB buyers think its the
responsibility of the owner of a motorhome to point out all of the
defects on it, when its actually YOU that are responsible for
educating yourself to spot the ones the problems that are important
and those that are not. Then the decision is yours which ones you can
live with. I do believe that the owner has the responsibility to be
truthful in describing any problems he is aware of as well as
truthfully replying to any questions the potential buyer asks, but
even then you may not be getting what you think you are getting.
Consider that the owner of the motorhome may be as uninformed as to
the BB condition as you may be in understanding how to find the
problems. Realize that once you plunk the cash down and sign the
papers the coach is yours and even if the owner lied about things
when describing the condition of the coach it will be very expensive
to sue to get the money back. . So whats the solution?

1. Belong to a forum like this and ask questions BEFORE you buy as
well as after if something goes wrong and needs fixing. No question
is stupid unless you dont ask it. Unasked questions before the sale
may be very expensive to fix after. Wasnt it Ben Franklin that said
"make a decision in haste and repent at your leisure"?

2. Use the Vintagebirds checklist when you go over the motorhome and
ask the owner to go over it with you also. You may even consider to
have him go over it before you travel there to see the coach and then
send you the results of the checklist.

3. Understand that every motorhome has a few problems some of which
are important to the owner and some that are not. Its up to you to
ask the questions that will identify them.

4. Be truthful and start with a realistic budget to buy and maintain
the coach. Dont start looking at $100,000 Bluebirds if your budget
will only cover an $50,000 one.

5. Make an honest assessment of how much of the maintenance and
repairs on the BB you can accomplish yourself and what improvements
you have to hire out.

6. Know how much tires, a transmission service and oil change costs
if you are unable or unwilling to do it yourself and the coach you
are going to buy needs them. It can get expensive fast!

7. If you are married (or not) talk over what you will use the coach
for and how often. If you are only going to take the kids on a trip
once a year and use if on weekends for short trips a FC model may
just be the ticket. Full timers may be only comfortable with a 45'
BB, although I personally know some that live very nicely in a FC33.
Different strokes for different folks.

8. In my opinion the FC model is easier to work on, costs less, is
cheaper to maintain including replacement engines and transmissions,
and has less depreciation then either a SP or PT models. I have both
a 1982 FC35 and a 1985 PT40. It is far easier to change the
alternator on the FC, change the belts or work on the injection pump
etc (unless you are a very little, little,person). The FC models are
also not as large and heavy as either the SP or PT models. In other
words the FC models can go places that that the others cannot. So
spend some time and plan carefully what you intend to do with the
coach and then you can make an informed decision and pick the coach
that meets your requirements.

9. Financing. Financing for almost any year coach is available. If
your local bank will not finance it, then there are many places that
will. The better your credit record the easier it will be.

Good luck and ask lots of questions

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1982 FC35(for sale soon)
1985 PT40








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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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[Jack & Donna Smith]

Damn; Where was all this when I needed it???
Jack Smith
1973FC31
SoCal---
=====================================================


In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
>
> It appears that some potential BB buyers think its the
> responsibility of the owner of a motorhome to point out all of the
> defects on it, when its actually YOU that are responsible for
> educating yourself to spot the ones the problems that are important
> and those that are not. Then the decision is yours which ones you can
> live with. I do believe that the owner has the responsibility to be
> truthful in describing any problems he is aware of as well as
> truthfully replying to any questions the potential buyer asks, but
> even then you may not be getting what you think you are getting.
> Consider that the owner of the motorhome may be as uninformed as to
> the BB condition as you may be in understanding how to find the
> problems. Realize that once you plunk the cash down and sign the
> papers the coach is yours and even if the owner lied about things
> when describing the condition of the coach it will be very expensive
> to sue to get the money back. . So whats the solution?
>
> 1. Belong to a forum like this and ask questions BEFORE you buy as
> well as after if something goes wrong and needs fixing. No question
> is stupid unless you dont ask it. Unasked questions before the sale
> may be very expensive to fix after. Wasnt it Ben Franklin that said
> "make a decision in haste and repent at your leisure"?
>
> 2. Use the Vintagebirds checklist when you go over the motorhome and
> ask the owner to go over it with you also. You may even consider to
> have him go over it before you travel there to see the coach and then
> send you the results of the checklist.
>
> 3. Understand that every motorhome has a few problems some of which
> are important to the owner and some that are not. Its up to you to
> ask the questions that will identify them.
>
> 4. Be truthful and start with a realistic budget to buy and maintain
> the coach. Dont start looking at $100,000 Bluebirds if your budget
> will only cover an $50,000 one.
>
> 5. Make an honest assessment of how much of the maintenance and
> repairs on the BB you can accomplish yourself and what improvements
> you have to hire out.
>
> 6. Know how much tires, a transmission service and oil change costs
> if you are unable or unwilling to do it yourself and the coach you
> are going to buy needs them. It can get expensive fast!
>
> 7. If you are married (or not) talk over what you will use the coach
> for and how often. If you are only going to take the kids on a trip
> once a year and use if on weekends for short trips a FC model may
> just be the ticket. Full timers may be only comfortable with a 45'
> BB, although I personally know some that live very nicely in a FC33.
> Different strokes for different folks.
>
> 8. In my opinion the FC model is easier to work on, costs less, is
> cheaper to maintain including replacement engines and transmissions,
> and has less depreciation then either a SP or PT models. I have both
> a 1982 FC35 and a 1985 PT40. It is far easier to change the
> alternator on the FC, change the belts or work on the injection pump
> etc (unless you are a very little, little,person). The FC models are
> also not as large and heavy as either the SP or PT models. In other
> words the FC models can go places that that the others cannot. So
> spend some time and plan carefully what you intend to do with the
> coach and then you can make an informed decision and pick the coach
> that meets your requirements.
>
> 9. Financing. Financing for almost any year coach is available. If
> your local bank will not finance it, then there are many places that
> will. The better your credit record the easier it will be.
>
> Good luck and ask lots of questions
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1982 FC35(for sale soon)
> 1985 PT40
>

[Gregory OConnor]

the most important tip is, once you buy a bus, Stop Looking. Relieve
the stress of Cognitive dissonance.

Gregory O'Connor