Pricey repairs

[winbarrows]

I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston

[mbulriss]

Winston,

I think you've got to put this into perspective. I think the question is not:
are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? Rather the question should be: are
all Recreational Vehicles so expensive to repair?

My feeling is that if you are not somewhat handy and adventuresome, the answer
is absolutley "yes". All RVs are complicated machines with lots of parts
stuffed in every nook and crany. It's bascially a house going down the road.
If you are going to have someone else perform each and every maintenance item
and little repair, then it is going to be expensive, no matter what RV/motor
coach/bus you get. Ralph can chime in here, but I think he and every other
repair facility charges the same shop rate for Wanderlodges as for plastic
palaces. So for routine repairs, they are no more expensive. A roof top air
conditioner of "x" btu cpacity, or a house water pump, is the same price
whether on a Winnebago or a Wanderlodge.

It is true that Wanderlodges are extremely heavy built machinery, so mechanical
repairs/parts/maintenance can be much more than a gas powered vehicle. But
relative to the class of coach, the Wanderlodge is no more expensive than a
Prevost for mechanical repairs. Can they be expensive? Absolutely. That's why
most people recommend a good size safety net of cash in your budget for repairs,
just in case.

As regards your specific example, you did not mention which style of 91 you were
referring to. On a 91 PT (don't know about the SP) there are actually two
alternators. One is on top of the engine and easily accessed through a hatch
cover under the bed. The other is below the engine and behind the rear bumper.
I have not had to remove either, but after adjusting the belts and looking at
the one behind the bumper, I do not recall seeing anything that led me to
believe that I would have to remove the bumper to get it off. Even if I had to,
that can't be more than 20 minutes work with the proper power tools that every
repair facility should have. Let's see, at $75 per hour, that example comes up
to 20 hours of labor to remove and replace an alternator?! I think we are
missing part of the story here. If that story you were told is true, my guess
is they saw him coming and took him to the cleaners (once again, probably).

I repeat my opening belief that if you are not somewhat mechanically inclined
and adventuresome, then any RV is going to be expensive to maintain and repair.
Within its class 8 category, the Wanderlodge is not anymore expensive than any
other comparable coach.

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, Texas

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "winbarrows" wrote:
>
> I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
> told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
> you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
> and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
> Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

Hello Winston:

Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some
repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel
wells along with various other damage can occur.

As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? Even
removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. Perhaps
something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out.
More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? That
is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen that
bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in fact I
would be dubious of it.

Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one another
as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to
take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to
take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking
answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair work <
which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the
forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach
to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can help
you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs.

Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run
higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more
amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a
tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and
those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a
higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum.

In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on
Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and bounders and
Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the
customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their coach.

Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum gives
anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with
learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those that
do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater
sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is nothing
wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but
safety out on the road.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm



At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
>told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
>you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
>and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
>Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
>
>
>
>

[Curt Sprenger]

Winston,
I don't have the start of this thread. I'll send you my work-items and
cost-ledger spread sheets (SS) if you like. We purchased the 1987 PT38
in February of the year. The spread sheets will give you a good idea
about work-items and cost. You will need to keep in mind that I'm
spending more dollars than the average person would spend...that's just
me...everything gets attention even though some items could wait or
never receive attention. Our Bird is getting everything it needs to come
back to original, and better. Send me your email address and I'll send
the spread sheets to you. Good luck in your search.

Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.



Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote:

> Hello Winston:
>
> Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some
> repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel
> wells along with various other damage can occur.
>
> As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary?
> Even
> removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours.
> Perhaps
> something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out.
> More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.?
> That
> is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen
> that
> bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in
> fact I
> would be dubious of it.
>
> Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one
> another
> as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to
> take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to
> take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking
> answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair
> work <
> which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the
> forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach
> to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can
> help
> you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs.
>
> Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run
> higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more
> amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a
> tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and
> those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a
> higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum.
>
> In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on
> Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> bounders and
> Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the
> customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their
> coach.
>
> Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum
> gives
> anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with
> learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those
> that
> do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater
> sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is
> nothing
> wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but
> safety out on the road.
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm
>
>
>
> At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
> >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
> >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
> >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
> >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>

>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

[Scott]

Good morning Winston, I must "throw" my .02 in here as well. A couple
of the guys have given great answers to your question but let me
relate another personal experience if you will. I DO believe that
when you pull into a place for service and they see the BEAUTIFUL BB
many also see $$$. I needed to replaced the exhaust for my old genny
and pulled into a muffler shop that "specialized in RV" repairs. The
owner went into great detail about the "special" muffler, noise
reduction and some other BS and bottom line told me that
the "special" muffler was going to cost me about 350.00-400.00 to
replace...I kindly asked him to hold a rusty piece of exhaust pipe
until I returned from lunch and they could start...I went two blocks
and bought the same parts from the same place he would have for less
than 50.00 and paid another shop 50.00 to weld it all together. I
hope the first guy is STILL holding that pipe!!!
I think that with any older,vintage, car, boat RV the owner should
have "some" idea of what is going on. (Many of my friends here can
attest I have only "some" idea..LOL) BUT that is where we start to
differentiate ..Most of the BB community is willing to offer
information, help and opinions that in many cases can be accomplished
in a few minutes with the help of a computer. The BB corporation
STILL offers customer support 24/7 for my coach which is a 1986..20
yrs old...MOST other RV's aren't even on the road let alone still
supported.
ONE more lil storey, on my recent return from FLA I was in a Pilot
truck stop and three brand new BB pulled in and parked. They were
being delivered to a dealer..but two of the drivers looked at my 86
and smiled that sure is nice..I thanked them and asked how many they
see..the really smiled and informed me that they actually helped
BUILD MY COACH!!! I bought them a soda and thanked them for building
such a product that still turns heads 20 yrs after she rolled off the
assembly line...THAT SIR IS PART OF THE BLUE BIRD EXERIENCE..So don't
be concerned..do your home work..and you will see..Heck you might
just own one!!

Scott
86FC35 "RUBY"
Murrells Inlet SC (hoping that storm stays outta here)



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Curt Sprenger
wrote:
>
> Winston,
> I don't have the start of this thread. I'll send you my work-items
and
> cost-ledger spread sheets (SS) if you like. We purchased the 1987
PT38
> in February of the year. The spread sheets will give you a good
idea
> about work-items and cost. You will need to keep in mind that I'm
> spending more dollars than the average person would spend...that's
just
> me...everything gets attention even though some items could wait or
> never receive attention. Our Bird is getting everything it needs to
come
> back to original, and better. Send me your email address and I'll
send
> the spread sheets to you. Good luck in your search.
>
> Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.
>
>
>
> Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote:
>
> > Hello Winston:
> >
> > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And
yes, some
> > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire
and wheel
> > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> >
> > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
necessary?
> > Even
> > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4
hours.
> > Perhaps
> > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be
drilled out.
> > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
tech.?
> > That
> > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have
seen
> > that
> > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop,
in
> > fact I
> > would be dubious of it.
> >
> > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help
one
> > another
> > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the
Country to
> > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops
not to
> > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of
seeking
> > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the
repair
> > work <
> > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can
come to the
> > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking
a Coach
> > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that
can
> > help
> > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on
costs.
> >
> > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
usually run
> > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with
more
> > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact
that a
> > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems
work and
> > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask
for a
> > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and
stickum.
> >
> > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I
work on
> > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> > bounders and
> > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
prefers the
> > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on
their
> > coach.
> >
> > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the
forum
> > gives
> > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it
along with
> > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of
those
> > that
> > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a
greater
> > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There
is
> > nothing
> > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only
fun but
> > safety out on the road.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> >
> > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> > >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a
gentleman
> > >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his.
Like if
> > >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
> > >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for
that.
> > >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>" on the
web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
>

[winston barrows]

< removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours.>>
Hi, Ralph,
According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and three hours
bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:

I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service. $115.00 per hour.
the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is getting something done,
done right, and done to the high expectations that Bluebird owners possess. By
way of example, shortly after purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even
though it was clearly full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located
at the top of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of the
coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble floor. the
estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they could not
replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the floor. Everything in a
Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look at the alternator/battery system
because the green dash light sometimes came on (which I now know is normal).
They replaced the alternator. Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had
any problems) $350; Cost of labor to replace alternator?
$1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper off, and then
take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three hours off, and three hours
on ( that is just the labor for the bumper). You don't even want to know what
Caterpiller charges to look at Bluebirds. Caterpiller likes dealing with
businesses that own tractors. Hell if you bill your tractor out for 2 or three
hundred per hour, you can afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell
you you need a fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130
per hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what was
checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to three hours to
put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't track in sludge, and then
fabricate tools because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools
don't work.

The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter much. It is the
beginning of a process that is akin to placing a vacuum cleaner on you wallet
and watching the money dissapear. End of owner email text.
It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum should be to
educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge ownership. A lot of people
think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm not saying they aren't
(especially since I've had no experience with them). So my logic is if such a
competent repair shop costs so much, then what's it going to cost to go to the
guy you'll educate?

"Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
Hello Winston:

Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some
repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel
wells along with various other damage can occur.

As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? Even
removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. Perhaps
something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out.
More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? That
is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen that
bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in fact I
would be dubious of it.

Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one another
as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to
take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to
take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking
answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair work <
which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the
forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach
to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can help
you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs.

Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run
higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more
amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a
tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and
those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a
higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum.

In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on
Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and bounders and
Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the
customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their coach.

Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum gives
anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with
learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those that
do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater
sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is nothing
wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but
safety out on the road.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm



At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
>told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
>you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
>and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
>Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
>
>
>
>



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---------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

We have all heard from folks who get taken for a ride in the repair bill
department. hopefully here, we can help you avoid a large costly mistake. I know
that Stewart and stevenson in Dallas is on my list of- don't go there. Sounds
like Buddy Gregg just got added to it. There are quite a few individuals
that can help out with repairs- and they are listed in our Database.
Erniee-83pt40 in montana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mbulriss]

Winston,

Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his tales
of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!

As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated consumers
and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. <Scott,
I hope that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
pipe also!>

Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph comment
further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way to
make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check for
a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just replace
one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4 hours
labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a half
I took to do it myself! I work slow.....

Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in question
was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe Hank
or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get to
the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total to get
that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!

The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't
work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have some
special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on the
Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-professional"
tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer shop.

While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money away,
you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil changes.
Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
concerned with doing things a little more economically, and having it
done right the first time.

As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a smart
consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw yourself
to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here should
indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here seems to
be an anomoly rather than the rule.

Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone that
really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the prospective
Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.

Good luck with your hunt!

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, Texas



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
wrote:
>
> < necessary? Even removing the bumper the un install and re install is
maybe 4 hours.>>
> Hi, Ralph,
> According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and three
hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
>
> I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service. $115.00
per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
getting something done, done right, and done to the high expectations
that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly
full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the top
of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of the
coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble floor.
the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they
could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look at
the alternator/battery system because the green dash light sometimes
came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator.
Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems) $350;
Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper off,
and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three hours
off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper). You
don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at Bluebirds.
Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell if
you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can
afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you need a
fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130 per
hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what was
checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't track
in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally work
on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
>
> The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter
much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End of
owner email text.
> It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum should
be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge ownership.
A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm
not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience with
them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so much,
then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
>
> "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> Hello Winston:
>
> Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes,
some
> repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and
wheel
> wells along with various other damage can occur.
>
> As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
necessary? Even
> removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours.
Perhaps
> something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out.
> More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
tech.? That
> is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have
seen that
> bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in
fact I
> would be dubious of it.
>
> Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one
another
> as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to
> take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to
> take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking
> answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair
work <
> which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come
to the
> forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a
Coach
> to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that
can help
> you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs.
>
> Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
usually run
> higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more
> amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact
that a
> tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and
> those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a
> higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum.
>
> In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on
> Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
bounders and
> Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
prefers the
> customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on
their coach.
>
> Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the
forum gives
> anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along
with
> learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of
those that
> do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a
greater
> sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is
nothing
> wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun
but
> safety out on the road.
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm
>
>
>
> At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
> >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
> >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
> >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
> >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Wallace Craig]

Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We (Ralph & I) looked at
the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you with details, but far too many
problems to correct including new tires and probably batteries. Will keep the
ear open for other deals.
Regards;
Wallace & Faye Craig

mbulriss <mbulriss@...> wrote:
Winston,

Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his tales
of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!

As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated consumers
and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I hope that first
guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
pipe also!>

Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph comment
further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way to
make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check for
a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just replace
one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4 hours
labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a half
I took to do it myself! I work slow.....

Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in question
was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe Hank
or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get to
the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total to get
that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!

The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't
work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have some
special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on the
Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-professional"
tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer shop.

While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money away,
you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil changes.
Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
concerned with doing things a little more economically, and having it
done right the first time.

As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a smart
consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw yourself
to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here should
indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here seems to
be an anomoly rather than the rule.

Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone that
really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the prospective
Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.

Good luck with your hunt!

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, Texas



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows

wrote:
>
> maybe 4 hours.>>
> Hi, Ralph,
> According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and three
hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
>
> I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service. $115.00
per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
getting something done, done right, and done to the high expectations
that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly
full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the top
of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of the
coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble floor.
the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they
could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look at
the alternator/battery system because the green dash light sometimes
came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator.
Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems) $350;
Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper off,
and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three hours
off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper). You
don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at Bluebirds.
Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell if
you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can
afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you need a
fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130 per
hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what was
checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't track
in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally work
on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
>
> The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter
much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End of
owner email text.
> It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum should
be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge ownership.
A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm
not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience with
them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so much,
then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
>
> "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> Hello Winston:
>
> Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes,
some
> repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and
wheel
> wells along with various other damage can occur.
>
> As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
necessary? Even
> removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours.
Perhaps
> something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out.
> More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
tech.? That
> is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have
seen that
> bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in
fact I
> would be dubious of it.
>
> Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one
another
> as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to
> take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to
> take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking
> answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair
work <
> which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come
to the
> forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a
Coach
> to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that
can help
> you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs.
>
> Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
usually run
> higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more
> amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact
that a
> tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and
> those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a
> higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum.
>
> In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on
> Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
bounders and
> Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
prefers the
> customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on
their coach.
>
> Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the
forum gives
> anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along
with
> learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of
those that
> do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a
greater
> sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is
nothing
> wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun
but
> safety out on the road.
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm
>
>
>
> At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman
> >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if
> >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
> >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that.
> >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







Yahoo! Groups Links










---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joe Hagan]

Mike and all:

I have just recently joined the forum because of my interest in Wanderlodge
coaches.

I agree with your remark that It is always a good idea to have a used vehicle
mechanically checked-out by a qualified mechanic/technician - particularly with
the large amount one typically invests in purchasing a high-end coach.

I enjoy the forum and hope that one day I might be able to share some
experiences (good, I hope) if and when I purchase a Wanderlodge. All my coach
experience was with Continental Trailways when there still was a Continental
Trailways

Regards,

Joe (Pappy) Hagan

St. George, UT




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]