Power Steering Belt: Removal? Are two belts better than one?

[Dan]

Howdy,

I have a 1978 FC33, 3208NA, with disagreeable power steering (noise,
high effort).

I want to replace the power steering belt to rule it out. So I
checked the files on this forum which state "2ea", My pump has one
belt and a one-belt pulley. Note: there is an un-used V slot on the
Crank Pulley, possibly intended to drive the PS pump. Can someone
solve this mystery? Any advantage to two belts?

In looking at the belt, it is behind two other belts, which go up to
the fan with no obvious way to induce slack. Do I need to remove the
radiator to change the PS belt? Is there a procedure (or diagram)
someone can share with me.

Thanks,

Danny
FC33, 1978
San Jose, CA

[Tim Hannink]

My '81 has only one power steering belt - it goes around the crank
and pump pulleys only. It is behind at least two other belts on the
crank pulley, both need to be removed in order to get it off. In
order to get to them, you need to get behind the radiator. I have
tightened my power steering belt without opening up the rad though,
its not easy but was definately quicker than swinging the radiator.

Good luck,

Tim Hannink
Winter Park, FL
1981 FC-33SB

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>
> I have a 1978 FC33, 3208NA, with disagreeable power steering
(noise,
> high effort).
>
> I want to replace the power steering belt to rule it out. So I
> checked the files on this forum which state "2ea", My pump has one
> belt and a one-belt pulley. Note: there is an un-used V slot on
the
> Crank Pulley, possibly intended to drive the PS pump. Can someone
> solve this mystery? Any advantage to two belts?
>
> In looking at the belt, it is behind two other belts, which go up
to
> the fan with no obvious way to induce slack. Do I need to remove
the
> radiator to change the PS belt? Is there a procedure (or diagram)
> someone can share with me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
> FC33, 1978
> San Jose, CA
>

[Tom Warner]

Stop and think of all of the complaints you hear on this forum and
others about the power steering unit causing problems and making
noise. If you install the correct number of belts and tension them
properly as I noted then you should have no trouble for a long time.
I decided on replacing all of the V belts on the engine every 2 years
whether they looked good or not. I am sure there will be others that
will poo poo this for a number of reasons. But my rationale is this.
I do what ever preventative maintenance that will give me the
smallest chance of breaking down on the road. Its easiest, cheapest
and fastest to replace belts at home where I can do the work at my
leisure and do it right. The installation of the belts and proper
tensioning of them with the Kriket works.
Once again put to much tension on the various belts and you run the
risk of premature belt failure and problems with the power steering
pump and engine coolant pump. However that is a decision each of you
can make for yourselves.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40


At 09:56 AM 6/17/2006, you wrote:

>My '81 has only one power steering belt - it goes around the crank
>and pump pulleys only. It is behind at least two other belts on the
>crank pulley, both need to be removed in order to get it off. In
>order to get to them, you need to get behind the radiator. I have
>tightened my power steering belt without opening up the rad though,
>its not easy but was definately quicker than swinging the radiator.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Tim Hannink
>Winter Park, FL
>1981 FC-33SB
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>"Dan" wrote:
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I have a 1978 FC33, 3208NA, with disagreeable power steering
>(noise,
> > high effort).
> >
> > I want to replace the power steering belt to rule it out. So I
> > checked the files on this forum which state "2ea", My pump has one
> > belt and a one-belt pulley. Note: there is an un-used V slot on
>the
> > Crank Pulley, possibly intended to drive the PS pump. Can someone
> > solve this mystery? Any advantage to two belts?
> >
> > In looking at the belt, it is behind two other belts, which go up
>to
> > the fan with no obvious way to induce slack. Do I need to remove
>the
> > radiator to change the PS belt? Is there a procedure (or diagram)
> > someone can share with me.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Danny
> > FC33, 1978
> > San Jose, CA
> >
>
>

[Dan]

Hi Tim,

Thanks four sounding in on this. I think we have the same setup, two
belts blocking the removal path of the PS belt. I found some BB
documetation indicating one belt was standard.

Thanks for the adjusting comments. But, unfortuately my PS belt has
no molding definition left - i.e. there are no edges remaining -
everything is rounded, so I think it needs replacing.

Question: When your coach is not rolling, can you turn the wheel
with normal effort and no noise?

Thanks,

Danny
FC33 1978
San Jose, CA


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Hannink"
wrote:
>
> My '81 has only one power steering belt - it goes around the crank
> and pump pulleys only. It is behind at least two other belts on
the
> crank pulley, both need to be removed in order to get it off. In
> order to get to them, you need to get behind the radiator. I have
> tightened my power steering belt without opening up the rad
though,
> its not easy but was definately quicker than swinging the radiator.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Tim Hannink
> Winter Park, FL
> 1981 FC-33SB

[Tim Hannink]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" wrote:

> Question: When your coach is not rolling, can you turn the wheel
> with normal effort and no noise?


I can when its warm, but its pretty noisy when cold. I very seldom do
it and avoid doing it as much as possible.

My daily driver has no power steering so it pretty instinctive for me
to only turn the wheel when the vehicle is in motion.

Good luck,

Tim Hannink
Winter Park, FL
1981 FC-33SB

[Dan]

Hi Tom,

I agree, it's better to labor at home than fowl up a trip/vacation.

My coach's PS pump pulley lacks a second V groove - it can take just
one belt. However, I am thinking that two belts confer the following
benefits, 1. redundancy, and 2. less lateral strain on the pump
bearings. If smart people like you agree with me, then I am going to
hunt down or make a pulley with two V grooves!

Thanks,

Danny
FC33, 1978
San Jose, CA


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Stop and think of all of the complaints you hear on this forum and
> others about the power steering unit causing problems and making
> noise. If you install the correct number of belts and tension them
> properly as I noted then you should have no trouble for a long
time.
> I decided on replacing all of the V belts on the engine every 2
years
> whether they looked good or not. I am sure there will be others
that
> will poo poo this for a number of reasons. But my rationale is
this.
> I do what ever preventative maintenance that will give me the
> smallest chance of breaking down on the road. Its easiest,
cheapest
> and fastest to replace belts at home where I can do the work at my
> leisure and do it right. The installation of the belts and proper
> tensioning of them with the Kriket works.
> Once again put to much tension on the various belts and you run
the
> risk of premature belt failure and problems with the power
steering
> pump and engine coolant pump. However that is a decision each of
you
> can make for yourselves.
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
> At 09:56 AM 6/17/2006, you wrote:
>
> >My '81 has only one power steering belt - it goes around the crank
> >and pump pulleys only. It is behind at least two other belts on
the
> >crank pulley, both need to be removed in order to get it off. In
> >order to get to them, you need to get behind the radiator. I have
> >tightened my power steering belt without opening up the rad
though,
> >its not easy but was definately quicker than swinging the
radiator.
> >
> >Good luck,
> >
> >Tim Hannink
> >Winter Park, FL
> >1981 FC-33SB
> >
> >--- In
> > 40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> >"Dan" wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > I have a 1978 FC33, 3208NA, with disagreeable power steering
> >(noise,
> > > high effort).
> > >
> > > I want to replace the power steering belt to rule it out. So I
> > > checked the files on this forum which state "2ea", My pump has
one
> > > belt and a one-belt pulley. Note: there is an un-used V slot on
> >the
> > > Crank Pulley, possibly intended to drive the PS pump. Can
someone
> > > solve this mystery? Any advantage to two belts?
> > >
> > > In looking at the belt, it is behind two other belts, which go
up
> >to
> > > the fan with no obvious way to induce slack. Do I need to
remove
> >the
> > > radiator to change the PS belt? Is there a procedure (or
diagram)
> > > someone can share with me.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Danny
> > > FC33, 1978
> > > San Jose, CA
> > >
> >
> >
>

[jwasnewski]

Yes sir, I agree with you completely and I added to that list
pressurized radiator caps, thermostats, minor water carrying
pressurized hoses, sending units etc. These items are cheaper than
being towed outa who knows where.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville,FL





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Stop and think of all of the complaints you hear on this forum and
> others about the power steering unit causing problems and making
> noise. If you install the correct number of belts and tension them
> properly as I noted then you should have no trouble for a long
time.
> I decided on replacing all of the V belts on the engine every 2
years
> whether they looked good or not. I am sure there will be others
that
> will poo poo this for a number of reasons. But my rationale is
this.
> I do what ever preventative maintenance that will give me the
> smallest chance of breaking down on the road. Its easiest, cheapest
> and fastest to replace belts at home where I can do the work at my
> leisure and do it right. The installation of the belts and proper
> tensioning of them with the Kriket works.
> Once again put to much tension on the various belts and you run the
> risk of premature belt failure and problems with the power steering
> pump and engine coolant pump. However that is a decision each of
you
> can make for yourselves.
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
> At 09:56 AM 6/17/2006, you wrote:
>
> >My '81 has only one power steering belt - it goes around the crank
> >and pump pulleys only. It is behind at least two other belts on the
> >crank pulley, both need to be removed in order to get it off. In
> >order to get to them, you need to get behind the radiator. I have
> >tightened my power steering belt without opening up the rad though,
> >its not easy but was definately quicker than swinging the radiator.
> >
> >Good luck,
> >
> >Tim Hannink
> >Winter Park, FL
> >1981 FC-33SB
> >
> >--- In
> > 40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> >"Dan" wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > I have a 1978 FC33, 3208NA, with disagreeable power steering
> >(noise,
> > > high effort).
> > >
> > > I want to replace the power steering belt to rule it out. So I
> > > checked the files on this forum which state "2ea", My pump has
one
> > > belt and a one-belt pulley. Note: there is an un-used V slot on
> >the
> > > Crank Pulley, possibly intended to drive the PS pump. Can
someone
> > > solve this mystery? Any advantage to two belts?
> > >
> > > In looking at the belt, it is behind two other belts, which go
up
> >to
> > > the fan with no obvious way to induce slack. Do I need to remove
> >the
> > > radiator to change the PS belt? Is there a procedure (or
diagram)
> > > someone can share with me.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Danny
> > > FC33, 1978
> > > San Jose, CA
> > >
> >
> >
>

[Tom Warner]

Leroy I agree with you. I save the old belts that I take off and use
them as spares, same with coolant hoses. They will normally work fine
if they have to be installed away from home until I get back home and
put new ones on. There is a reason for that. I dont believe it is a
good idea to store new belts for they will deteriorate with age. I
prefer to install new ones. When I sold my FC35 gave the new owner
another starter, belts,hoses,Cat 3208 pan gaskets,filters,new LN 160
alternator and lots of other spare parts.

I carry 4 double sided plastic see thru parts boxes (actually fishing
tackle boxes) that I have picked up at garage sales for a couple of
dollars each. In one of them I have all of the tools and parts to
repair anything in the dash within reason of course. In the others I
carry hose clamps, shrink wrap of different sizes, metal self tapping
screws, tape, one of each relay in the coach and generator, a dozen
Bosch relays and sockets, and lots of other things. Another special
box holds my A/C gauges and O rings. Not much that I cant do even on
the road. Am in the process of designing a cherry finish tool box to
fit in the place where the Snap on box once was. Fellow that owned
the coach before me wouldnt part with it(cant blame him). I can
carry a lot more tools in one specifically designed for the tools I have.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40

At 09:21 PM 6/17/2006, you wrote:

>Yes sir, I agree with you completely and I added to that list
>pressurized radiator caps, thermostats, minor water carrying
>pressurized hoses, sending units etc. These items are cheaper than
>being towed outa who knows where.
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40
>Niceville,FL
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Stop and think of all of the complaints you hear on this forum and
> > others about the power steering unit causing problems and making
> > noise. If you install the correct number of belts and tension them
> > properly as I noted then you should have no trouble for a long
>time.
> > I decided on replacing all of the V belts on the engine every 2
>years
> > whether they looked good or not. I am sure there will be others
>that
> > will poo poo this for a number of reasons. But my rationale is
>this.
> > I do what ever preventative maintenance that will give me the
> > smallest chance of breaking down on the road. Its easiest, cheapest
> > and fastest to replace belts at home where I can do the work at my
> > leisure and do it right. The installation of the belts and proper
> > tensioning of them with the Kriket works.
> > Once again put to much tension on the various belts and you run the
> > risk of premature belt failure and problems with the power steering
> > pump and engine coolant pump. However that is a decision each of
>you
> > can make for yourselves.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 09:56 AM 6/17/2006, you wrote:
> >
> > >My '81 has only one power steering belt - it goes around the crank
> > >and pump pulleys only. It is behind at least two other belts on the
> > >crank pulley, both need to be removed in order to get it off. In
> > >order to get to them, you need to get behind the radiator. I have
> > >tightened my power steering belt without opening up the rad though,
> > >its not easy but was definately quicker than swinging the radiator.
> > >
> > >Good luck,
> > >
> > >Tim Hannink
> > >Winter Park, FL
> > >1981 FC-33SB
> > >
> > >--- In
> > > >40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@y\
ahoogroups.com,
>
> > >"Dan" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Howdy,
> > > >
> > > > I have a 1978 FC33, 3208NA, with disagreeable power steering
> > >(noise,
> > > > high effort).
> > > >
> > > > I want to replace the power steering belt to rule it out. So I
> > > > checked the files on this forum which state "2ea", My pump has
>one
> > > > belt and a one-belt pulley. Note: there is an un-used V slot on
> > >the
> > > > Crank Pulley, possibly intended to drive the PS pump. Can
>someone
> > > > solve this mystery? Any advantage to two belts?
> > > >
> > > > In looking at the belt, it is behind two other belts, which go
>up
> > >to
> > > > the fan with no obvious way to induce slack. Do I need to remove
> > >the
> > > > radiator to change the PS belt? Is there a procedure (or
>diagram)
> > > > someone can share with me.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Danny
> > > > FC33, 1978
> > > > San Jose, CA
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Dan, two belts is not always better than one. If tension are
identical on a set and the set age identical and react to heat
identical it may help. If factors differ on a set, one belt will
fail early and throw the other of a set and/or other appliance belts.
Belts now use a softer rubber and stronger cord. the tension specs
were written for the belts of the time.

Lateral strain - two belts with 30 lbs tension each on a pully put
30 lbs tension on the pully so does three and one belt . I find that
appliances that startup reguardless of engine rpms require the shared
torque start up strain spread out between belts. I dont think
redundancy was a factor in engineering the requirement for the two
belts.
When I wash an engine down I keep degreaser and light oil solvent
(diesel) away from the belts and hoses. I think they do damage to the
rubber?

Make a pully? wish you lived more south!

I agree with Tom on the age replacement factor but every so often I
replace the spare belts in my tool box (Irish trait called "Ima
gonna" often trumped by other traits). The older a mechanic gets the
more PM he/she does, I wonder if that is because there is more time
or there is more learned experience?

Gregory O'Connor
94pt Romoland Ca
Imagonna take the Christmass lights down this weekend for sure.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I agree, it's better to labor at home than fowl up a trip/vacation.
>
> My coach's PS pump pulley lacks a second V groove - it can take
just
> one belt. However, I am thinking that two belts confer the
following
> benefits, 1. redundancy, and 2. less lateral strain on the pump
> bearings. If smart people like you agree with me, then I am going
to
> hunt down or make a pulley with two V grooves!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
> FC33, 1978
> San Jose, CA
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> > I decided on replacing all of the V belts on the engine every 2
> years
> > whether they looked good or not. I am sure there will be others
> that
> > will poo poo this for a number of reasons. But my rationale is
> this.
> > I do what ever preventative maintenance that will give me the
> > smallest chance of breaking down on the road. Its easiest,
> cheapest
> > and fastest to replace belts at home where I can do the work at
my
> > leisure and do it right. > > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >

[Tom Warner]

Gregg if the requirement is for two belts then two belts should be
used and as you noted it is not for reducdancy. The friction between
the sides of the belt and the pully are what gives you the power
transmission that is required. Its the tension on the belt that
ensures that the belt makes good contact with the pully. So two
belts will have twice as much power handling ability as one belt. But
with that said two belts will put twice as much load on the bearings
of the power steering pump also not the same as with one belt.

. I only use Gates V80 belts all of which are automatically matched
with any other Gates V80 belt of the same size. Takes the guesswork
out of selecting belts. There is a rather complicated way to
mathematically calculate the size belt required for any two or more
pullys and the minimum tension required to transmit a specific power
but Gates simplified this by showing how tools like the Kriket can
take the guess work out of it. If you inspect the sides of a V belt
and it is shiny then there is slippage in the belt and you need to
find out why. Carefully check the contour of the belt with the pully
and make sure they match.
http://tinyurl.com/rng9m

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY

At 12:24 PM 6/18/2006, you wrote:

>Dan, two belts is not always better than one. If tension are
>identical on a set and the set age identical and react to heat
>identical it may help. If factors differ on a set, one belt will
>fail early and throw the other of a set and/or other appliance belts.
>Belts now use a softer rubber and stronger cord. the tension specs
>were written for the belts of the time.
>
>Lateral strain - two belts with 30 lbs tension each on a pully put
>30 lbs tension on the pully so does three and one belt . I find that
>appliances that startup reguardless of engine rpms require the shared
>torque start up strain spread out between belts. I dont think
>redundancy was a factor in engineering the requirement for the two
>belts.
>When I wash an engine down I keep degreaser and light oil solvent
>(diesel) away from the belts and hoses. I think they do damage to the
>rubber?
>
>Make a pully? wish you lived more south!
>
>I agree with Tom on the age replacement factor but every so often I
>replace the spare belts in my tool box (Irish trait called "Ima
>gonna" often trumped by other traits). The older a mechanic gets the
>more PM he/she does, I wonder if that is because there is more time
>or there is more learned experience?
>
>Gregory O'Connor
>94pt Romoland Ca
>Imagonna take the Christmass lights down this weekend for sure.
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>"Dan" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I agree, it's better to labor at home than fowl up a trip/vacation.
> >
> > My coach's PS pump pulley lacks a second V groove - it can take
>just
> > one belt. However, I am thinking that two belts confer the
>following
> > benefits, 1. redundancy, and 2. less lateral strain on the pump
> > bearings. If smart people like you agree with me, then I am going
>to
> > hunt down or make a pulley with two V grooves!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Danny
> > FC33, 1978
> > San Jose, CA
> >
> >
> > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > > I decided on replacing all of the V belts on the engine every 2
> > years
> > > whether they looked good or not. I am sure there will be others
> > that
> > > will poo poo this for a number of reasons. But my rationale is
> > this.
> > > I do what ever preventative maintenance that will give me the
> > > smallest chance of breaking down on the road. Its easiest,
> > cheapest
> > > and fastest to replace belts at home where I can do the work at
>my
> > > leisure and do it right. > > tom warner
> > > vernon center,ny
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
>
>