Cost of ownership

[Scott]

C'mon guys this thread is really getting kinda played out. I guess
what Gardner is asking after all is "who has the perverbial crystal
ball". I guess it really boils down to each individual coach, does it
not? If someone would care to give me a formula for "cost of
ownership" I would really appreciate it. There are so many variables
that makes this most difficult at best. He really could find
a "pearl" and it would cost him next to nothing if it sat in a park
somewhere. But take it on the road then..there would be other
considerations. I really did not see any posts about how would you
intend on using it? Generally, most use their coach differently.

The first trip out in our coach (returning from RIV) I blew a head
gasket..no biggy right..well..towing (no cost to me w/good road
service plan) then came the thought of two NEW heads, gaskets, hmmm
what caused that? Radiator cleaning, then a new water pump, to
eliminate things etc..10 days in a great CAT shop in Charleston SC
and well a valve lash while in there, set the fuel rack and some
other things.. NONE OF THIS WAS FORSEEN. Total cost +/- 5000.00. IT
WAS FIXED RIGHT. Then there are tires, genset stuff, relays, etc. Oh
did I say $15K in October? Just to fix stuff the way it "should be
fixed or replaced" AND I had nothing less than a great coach to start
with. Uh where is that crystal ball?

I guess that is the point, actually, somewhere between John S post
and Mike H post..WHO REALLY KNOWS..the fact is these coaches are old,
not to say not safe, great to drive, great look etc. but that all
comes with a price. Many just "clip" the wire, "put the band aid" on
it or trade it in and let others worry about it. Sorry but that is
the truth. If you want to have a vintage coach, boat, car, then there
will be expenses. Sometimes expensive fixes..goes with the
teritory..most are unforseen. (why purchase a problem waiting to
happen?)

If one is not prepared for properly repairing, unforseen costs,
emergency repairs or fixing the coach, or the cost of fuel, then
maybe they should put there money elsewhere. Like a beach timeshare
or like a new plastic palace. I chuckle every time I hear someone
talk about "MY INVESTMENT" what a joke when it comes to a Blue Bird
or any motorhome for that matter of fact. I have had several. If they
feel it is a good investment..lemme show you some Fla property which
has a water problem. I have not seen any motorhome appreciate, simply
depreciate, some less than others.

The pride of ownership is just that..some pride themselves more than
others, and there is no arguement out there for a "good investment"
and no one has the magic formula. Maybe the purchaser will take the
sales pitch, great coach, all the upgrades, runs like a top, etc you
get my point by now.

Gardner be prepared for the unforseen even from the best maintained
coach out there. A Blue Bird is not cheap to maintain or repair,
actually there is nothing cheap to repair, even if you can find
parts. BUT find a good BB coach, enjoy it, get to know it, and well
you will not be disapointed, they truly are amazing machines. Not to
mention the pride of owning one of the best on the road today,
regardless if it is 20 years old or not.

Wish you the best in your search.

ScottB
86FC35
SC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw" wrote:
>
> Leroy,
> I have a lot of work to do before I can get the DW to weigh in on
> the plan. Oh,I could probably go ahead and do it on my own, but
then
> I would become a 'full timer", alone, with half my income.
>
> You know the old expression about divorce.
> When you are married you get up in the morning, leave the house
> and kiss your wife good by.
> When you get divorced, you get up in the morning, leave your
wife
> and kiss your house good by!
>
> Gardner
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Well Gardner:
> >
> > Come on man, jump on in with the rest of us. You will be happy
you
> purchased the ol school bus. Just look for the best physical
> specimen before you buy.
> >
> > Side note----the wife wanted a Prevost. She said the Bluebird
> looked like a school bus. I said, you have traveled many a mile
in
> a school bus and you are still here. Now---I cannot get her out of
> the thing.
> >
> > You will love a Bird. It is a lifestyle.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: gcyeaw
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> >
> >
> > Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV,
> then
> > buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go.
> When
> > I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
> > classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
> > isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars.
> There
> > has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring
> for
> > and reviving such a machine.
> >
> > The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with
my
> > eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to
> make a
> > wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
> > poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.
> >
> > Gardner
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike:
> > >
> > > I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
> > deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning
> these
> > beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and
> charge
> > $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
> > crazy world.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40
> > > Niceville, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > >
> > >
> > > Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice?
Trying
> > to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> > > MH
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: gcyeaw
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > >
> > > James,
> > > Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
> > the
> > > level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of
say
> > 30
> > > mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or
> $1200
> > > it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time.
Not
> > > knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
> > pay
> > > for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
> > removing
> > > the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
> > heading in
> > > for service might also save some labor and probably please
the
> > > service tech as well.
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> > > of 'Bird
> > > > that you are looking for.
> > > >
> > > > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil
> and
> > > filter
> > > > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of
> your
> > oil
> > > > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand
> motor
> > > oil.
> > > > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start
the
> > bus
> > > > when needed.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the parts cost:
> > > >
> > > > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> > > >
> > > > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> > > >
> > > > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> > > >
> > > > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> > > >
> > > > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> > > >
> > > > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
> > bucks
> > > > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
> > most
> > > > folks.
> > > >
> > > > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending
on
> > Tire
> > > > Brand.
> > > >
> > > > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
> > gallons
> > > of
> > > > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > > > everything. This service also includes the above listed
oil,
> > > filter
> > > > and lube service.
> > > >
> > > > 1) All new hoses and belts
> > > >
> > > > 2) Performance Analysis report
> > > >
> > > > 3) Steam clean engine
> > > >
> > > > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> > > >
> > > > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> > > >
> > > > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You
can
> > also
> > > > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand
miles
> > with
> > > a
> > > > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> > > >
> > > > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it
actually
> > > costs.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > Orange Lake, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello, Gardner.
> > > > >
> > > > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
> > old, or
> > > > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you
buy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
> > are
> > > the
> > > > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that
may
> > need
> > > > > everything replaced on them from the motor and
electronics
> > to
> > > the
> > > > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
> > nice
> > > > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
> > need
> > > > next
> > > > > to nothing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> > > a "project
> > > > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
> > everything
> > > else
> > > > > in the bus having been already updated and in good
working
> > order.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project
> bus
> > at
> > > a
> > > > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not
be
> > your
> > > > best
> > > > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
> > folks
> > > who
> > > > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > > > >
> > > > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years
old
> > with
> > > > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
> > were
> > > > all
> > > > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All
belts
> > and
> > > > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a
year
> > > old.
> > > > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex
> pure
> > > sine-
> > > > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition
> Direct
> > TV
> > > > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than
> a
> > > year
> > > > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3
> years
> > > > old.
> > > > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a
> year
> > > ago.
> > > > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in.
> New
> > > > carpet
> > > > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
> > point.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25
to
> > 27
> > > > > thousand.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
> > behind
> > > a
> > > > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished
it
> > up
> > > and
> > > > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> > > pictures
> > > > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very
> different
> > > cost
> > > > of
> > > > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be
able
> > to
> > > buy
> > > > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
> > spend
> > > that
> > > > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
> > reliable
> > > > runner.
> > > > >
> > > > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
> > price
> > > > > range.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good Luck.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> > > appreciate
> > > > > the
> > > > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
> > spreadsheet
> > > to
> > > > > try
> > > > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird.
> I
> > love
> > > > the
> > > > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at
> my
> > > > leisure
> > > > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
> > 1984
> > > > or
> > > > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would
expect
> > to
> > > have
> > > > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I
would
> > > expect
> > > > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > > > ion/chassis
> > > > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for
routine
> > > > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
> > averaged
> > > > over
> > > > > a
> > > > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
> > rebuild)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> > > ticks
> > > > on
> > > > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but
> so
> > was
> > > I
> > > > 40
> > > > > > years ago!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gardner
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>