Super Low Sulphur Diesel and Cat engines???

[Doug Engel]

Ernie, Good point, and YES...to a degree. It would take a fair amout of ATF
(probably more than the 1qt/300 gal ratio Rob talked about) to dye your fuel to
the extent that "red" is dyed. The problem would be getting some over zealous
trooper that was having a bad day. I guess if you had that happen, take a fuel
sample and have it checked out for evidence in your defense. The tickets for
running "red" over the road are really expensive. Doug

erniecarpet@... wrote: I have heard of folks getting stopped and
the highway patrol checking their
fuel for red dye. Of course, in ALL my travels- have never witnessed that. But-
would the ATF have the same dye effect as off road diesel? Just curious.

Ernie Ekberg
83 PT40
Livingston, Montana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Gregory OConnor]

Tom, I wonder if the Havoc some purport to exist by using ATF is the
impact on the sale of their additive. I use ATF 4 quarts per 100 gal
on every other tank on my dump truck Cummins N-14 330,000 miles. 1qt
every other tank in 97 Dodge Cummins 195,000 miles. It may well be
that I always used it and the seals never dried out to the point that
rewetting them would tear them up (as they unevenly swell back to
shape). I always also used ATF to clean the injectors by putting 30%
in the filter when changed.
I think the worse thing you can do to seals and bearings on an
older engine is to use a spray degreaser and pressure washer on the
surface. I bet the diesel thing will play out as problems develop and
I also think 'long term unused powerplants'( like RV engines) will
have unique problems. JeffM once pointed out that time is a factor in
product failure. With this new factor Time will tell.

Tom, why can't you simply add sulfur? I buy 'Corn flakes' because its
better for you than 'Frosted Flakes'. with two spoons of an additive
I get a healthy cereal and something good to eat while I read the
dietary label.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomoland

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Rob good idea of putting the ATF in your diesel fuel. But be sure
to
> set aside some money for maintenance right after. You might want to
> go to the Chevron or other fuel producers site and read what you
can
> and cant do. ATF just plays havoc with some seals.
>
> PS: To save everyone some stress you might want to check the diesel
> stops and find out that they still all sell regular diesel
> fuel. http://www.flyingj.com/highway/locations/us-map.html
> For instance in Georgia: only one station today has ULSD but they
> all have low sulphur diesel which you have been burning for a long
> time. In Florida as of today no Flying J stations have ULSD but
all
> of them have low sulphur. Everyone does not expect a government
> mandate to go perfectly do you.Low sulphur diesel will be
> available for quite some time for older diesels.
>
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 Bluebird PT 40
>
> At 10:26 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
> >Rob, Thanks for the input. The ATF will help with lubricity, but I
> >don't know that it alone will compensate for the new diesel
formula.
> >If that's your plan, put it in now, becasue you're already running
> >ULSD, it was a federally mandated change that took effect August
1st.
> > Doug
> >
> >Rob Robinson wrote:
> > When I start to use that Ultra Low Sulphur I'm throwing
> > in ATF with each
> >fillup. I think someone said that two quarts per 300 gallons of
fuel should
> >do it.
> >
> >On 26/10/06, doug_ngl wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy again, Thanks for the help with my locked safe issue. Now
I know
> > > you just stand back and throw 450.00 at it and it will open.
> > > Now on to my next question/topic. I own and operate a gas
> > > station/tire store in Gunnison Colorado and have been talking to
> > > various fuel suppliers and addative distributors about ultra low
> > > sulphur diesel and winterizing this fuel. Most are saying that
due to
> > > the differences in the chemical makeup, getting this fuel to
reach a
> > > CFPP lower than -25 to -30F is going to be a problem (at lesat
in
> > > Gunnison it will be). Availibility of #1 diesel to thin it is
supposed
> > > to be a problem this winter as well, not to mention that this
approach
> > > apparently no longer has the same favorable effect that it used
to.
> > > So today while talking to a new rep, he mentioned the low
lubricity
> > > of the ULSD and the problems older diesel engines, Cats were
noted,
> > > have running this stuff. He noted injector pump failure
specifically.
> > > Anyone have any input or experience they can share? Thanks
gang, Doug
> > > Engel in Gunnison, Co. '81 FC35SB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
> >94 WLWB
>

[Al]

My understanding is that diesel engines use sulfur content to aid in
cooling and lubrication. When you reduce the content, your engine is
going to not receive the same lubrication and thus will wear faster
and run hotter since you are creating more friction. To what degree,
I could not tell you. But I do have a solution.

Vehicle mfg have endorsed Biodiesel upto 5% in many of the diesel
engines on the market. Several have gone beyond that endorsement so I
will just stand on the 5%. If you add, 1% Biodiesel it will replace
all of the lubrication lost plus is good for the enviroment and is a
renewable resource. I am not a tree hugger but am glad that I am
doing something to reduce my emmissions and dependancy on foriegn
oil. I currently run 100 % ( B100 ) in all of my vehicles with no
problems. Not looking to get into debate about Biodiesel. Just want
to make sure the group has some other options.

Al, Kathy, Alfred, Daniel Johnson
Mandeville, Louisiana
'04 VW Passat B100
'03 Dodge B100
'96 BMC B100
'93 Dodge B100

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Doug- since I have a 83 model coach- is this low sulfur diesel going
to
> affect my engine?
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83 PT40
> Livingston, Montana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Ernie, I just got stopped by a random check 10-12-2006 in a dump truck.
they put a glass straw in the fuel put a thumb on the end and draw out
a sample. I use ATF and it did not show them any concern about reddye
indication. it was interesting that my license plates did not match
the registration and that was not an issue for a ticket, but a minor
exhaust leak was.
Greg

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> I have heard of folks getting stopped and the highway patrol checking
their
> fuel for red dye. Of course, in ALL my travels- have never witnessed
that. But-
> would the ATF have the same dye effect as off road diesel? Just
curious.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83 PT40
> Livingston, Montana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Doug Engel]

Ernie, It is my understanding that the main issue I/we have to be concerned
about is the loss of lubricity. I have had it described as a similar situation
that developed when we all went to unleaded gasoline. IMHO, the short answer is
yes, your engine was designed to run on "oilier" Diesel, so you should add
someting to bring the lubricity of the new fuel up to the levels you engine was
designed to run on. Doug

erniecarpet@... wrote: Doug- since I have a 83 model coach- is this
low sulfur diesel going to
affect my engine?

Ernie Ekberg
83 PT40
Livingston, Montana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug Engel]

Al, thanks for the input, and I have heard similar info regarding Bio. We have
had winter problems with Bio up here, as well as teh "scrubbing" effect it has
on a fuel system (read possibility of plugged filters, not knocking the product,
just be perpared)) on the first couple tankfulls. Another possible issue with
Bio that directly applies to many of us is a higher tendency toward bacteria
growth in stored fuel. ( I have been told, I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong).
Nothing a good biocide can't address, just another item to be aware of. Doug

Al wrote: My understanding is that diesel engines
use sulfur content to aid in
cooling and lubrication. When you reduce the content, your engine is
going to not receive the same lubrication and thus will wear faster
and run hotter since you are creating more friction. To what degree,
I could not tell you. But I do have a solution.

Vehicle mfg have endorsed Biodiesel upto 5% in many of the diesel
engines on the market. Several have gone beyond that endorsement so I
will just stand on the 5%. If you add, 1% Biodiesel it will replace
all of the lubrication lost plus is good for the enviroment and is a
renewable resource. I am not a tree hugger but am glad that I am
doing something to reduce my emmissions and dependancy on foriegn
oil. I currently run 100 % ( B100 ) in all of my vehicles with no
problems. Not looking to get into debate about Biodiesel. Just want
to make sure the group has some other options.

Al, Kathy, Alfred, Daniel Johnson
Mandeville, Louisiana
'04 VW Passat B100
'03 Dodge B100
'96 BMC B100
'93 Dodge B100

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Doug- since I have a 83 model coach- is this low sulfur diesel going
to
> affect my engine?
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83 PT40
> Livingston, Montana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

Yup, keep yer fuel receipts and be ready to esplain how come it is.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: erniecarpet@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Super Low Sulphur Diesel and Cat engines???


I have heard of folks getting stopped and the highway patrol checking their
fuel for red dye. Of course, in ALL my travels- have never witnessed that.
But-
would the ATF have the same dye effect as off road diesel? Just curious.

Ernie Ekberg
83 PT40
Livingston, Montana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

What a surprise. Part of the "new" fuel deal it to get the junk, 3208, 2 stroke
DD in particular out of the national fleet both on and off road. Justified or
not that is the agenda of the powers that be. On the plus side we will probably
see contemporary diesel technology start to make inroads on the transitional
hybrid stop gap measures. Good and bad in all things. Those of us who can
think for them selves will be able to survive the curves the powers throw at us
and discount the dogma, and see it for the misinformation it is.
I have been working with automatic transmissions for 30 years and it should be
noted the major working element in them are lip and oring seals. There have
been updates over the years, particularly with the implementation of Viton
material. As I understand it, Viton is used routinely in injector pump seal
kits these days and has been for some time. I suspect that any seal failures
observed would be due to seals that were worn out. Take the top off your
injector pump, look at all them pieces and tell me about how that rascal don't
need some lubrication.
Interesting comments have been made about "aromatics" and other "interesting
facts" related to the "new fuel". I also remember how we were supposed to run
out of oil in '79. Then there is the hubub about global warming and ice ages
too.
I'll add a little oil to my fuel and if I have a problem I'll let you all know.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Super Low Sulphur Diesel and Cat engines???


Rob good idea of putting the ATF in your diesel fuel. But be sure to
set aside some money for maintenance right after. You might want to
go to the Chevron or other fuel producers site and read what you can
and cant do. ATF just plays havoc with some seals.

PS: To save everyone some stress you might want to check the diesel
stops and find out that they still all sell regular diesel
fuel. http://www.flyingj.com/highway/locations/us-map.html
For instance in Georgia: only one station today has ULSD but they
all have low sulphur diesel which you have been burning for a long
time. In Florida as of today no Flying J stations have ULSD but all
of them have low sulphur. Everyone does not expect a government
mandate to go perfectly do you.Low sulphur diesel will be
available for quite some time for older diesels.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 Bluebird PT 40

At 10:26 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
>Rob, Thanks for the input. The ATF will help with lubricity, but I
>don't know that it alone will compensate for the new diesel formula.
>If that's your plan, put it in now, becasue you're already running
>ULSD, it was a federally mandated change that took effect August 1st.
> Doug
>
>Rob Robinson wrote:
> When I start to use that Ultra Low Sulphur I'm throwing
> in ATF with each
>fillup. I think someone said that two quarts per 300 gallons of fuel should
>do it.
>
>On 26/10/06, doug_ngl wrote:
> >
> > Howdy again, Thanks for the help with my locked safe issue. Now I know
> > you just stand back and throw 450.00 at it and it will open.
> > Now on to my next question/topic. I own and operate a gas
> > station/tire store in Gunnison Colorado and have been talking to
> > various fuel suppliers and addative distributors about ultra low
> > sulphur diesel and winterizing this fuel. Most are saying that due to
> > the differences in the chemical makeup, getting this fuel to reach a
> > CFPP lower than -25 to -30F is going to be a problem (at lesat in
> > Gunnison it will be). Availibility of #1 diesel to thin it is supposed
> > to be a problem this winter as well, not to mention that this approach
> > apparently no longer has the same favorable effect that it used to.
> > So today while talking to a new rep, he mentioned the low lubricity
> > of the ULSD and the problems older diesel engines, Cats were noted,
> > have running this stuff. He noted injector pump failure specifically.
> > Anyone have any input or experience they can share? Thanks gang, Doug
> > Engel in Gunnison, Co. '81 FC35SB
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
>94 WLWB






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dan Darst]

Several months ago (July or August) I read in a magazine that an additive
would be blended into ulsd that would substitute for lost lubricity of
sulphur, and actually do a better job of it than sulphur.

dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.


>From: Doug Engel
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Super Low Sulphur Diesel and Cat engines???
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:51:52 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Ernie, It is my understanding that the main issue I/we have to be concerned
>about is the loss of lubricity. I have had it described as a similar
>situation that developed when we all went to unleaded gasoline. IMHO, the
>short answer is yes, your engine was designed to run on "oilier" Diesel, so
>you should add someting to bring the lubricity of the new fuel up to the
>levels you engine was designed to run on. Doug
>
>erniecarpet@... wrote: Doug- since I have a 83 model coach- is
>this low sulfur diesel going to
>affect my engine?
>
>Ernie Ekberg
>83 PT40
>Livingston, Montana
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[doug_ngl]

Rob, My apologies reference stating that you are "already running"
ULSD. While talking to our delivery driver, I found out that the
mandate that Colorado is under has not taken effect in all areas of
the US, (read: get your story straight Doug!) so you are probably
right in saying that you are not currently running ULSD. In fact,
most of you are still on just the low sulphur stuff, but in our
travels around, we will start running into more and more ULSD, so I
guess we all better get ready, hence the lively discussion. Doug



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Robinson"
wrote:
>
> When I start to use that Ultra Low Sulphur I'm throwing in ATF
with each
> fillup. I think someone said that two quarts per 300 gallons of
fuel should
> do it.
>
> On 26/10/06, doug_ngl wrote:
> >
> > Howdy again, Thanks for the help with my locked safe issue.
Now I know
> > you just stand back and throw 450.00 at it and it will open.
> > Now on to my next question/topic. I own and operate a gas
> > station/tire store in Gunnison Colorado and have been talking to
> > various fuel suppliers and addative distributors about ultra low
> > sulphur diesel and winterizing this fuel. Most are saying that
due to
> > the differences in the chemical makeup, getting this fuel to
reach a
> > CFPP lower than -25 to -30F is going to be a problem (at lesat in
> > Gunnison it will be). Availibility of #1 diesel to thin it is
supposed
> > to be a problem this winter as well, not to mention that this
approach
> > apparently no longer has the same favorable effect that it used
to.
> > So today while talking to a new rep, he mentioned the low
lubricity
> > of the ULSD and the problems older diesel engines, Cats were
noted,
> > have running this stuff. He noted injector pump failure
specifically.
> > Anyone have any input or experience they can share? Thanks gang,
Doug
> > Engel in Gunnison, Co. '81 FC35SB
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
> 94 WLWB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>