Water pump (one more time)

[Keith Strehle]

I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are ShurFlo
pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed to
put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65 psi
pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how much
does the original pump put out?

Thanks, Keith
84FC35

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

Keith:

The original pump put out 4.5 gpm @ 45 psi. Watch the gpm rate on a
shurflow pump. Some of the lower priced pumps are 45 psi but only at 2 to 3
gpm. I like my 65 psi at 5.7 gpm.

Question, have you located the breaker for your present pump? It may well
be weak. It should be in the drivers side rear load center, located in the
overhead compartment next to the 1/2 closet with the 2 drawer under it. It
will be a green/white stripe wire with #1 and going to cb 8. There may be a
spare cb in that load center that you can try moving the wire too.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
'84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
Ralph's RV Solutions



At 04:35 PM 5/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are ShurFlo
>pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed to
>put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65 psi
>pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how much
>does the original pump put out?
>
>Thanks, Keith
>84FC35
>
>

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
'84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
Ralph's RV Solutions

[Keith Strehle]

Thanks Ralph, I have located the breaker and can hear it when it
opens. Should I just replace the breaker? Do you know where I can
get one?

Keith
84FC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
wrote:
>
> Keith:
>
> The original pump put out 4.5 gpm @ 45 psi. Watch the gpm rate on
a
> shurflow pump. Some of the lower priced pumps are 45 psi but only
at 2 to 3
> gpm. I like my 65 psi at 5.7 gpm.
>
> Question, have you located the breaker for your present pump? It
may well
> be weak. It should be in the drivers side rear load center, located
in the
> overhead compartment next to the 1/2 closet with the 2 drawer under
it. It
> will be a green/white stripe wire with #1 and going to cb 8. There
may be a
> spare cb in that load center that you can try moving the wire too.
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> '84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
> Ralph's RV Solutions
>
>
>
> At 04:35 PM 5/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
> >I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are
ShurFlo
> >pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed
to
> >put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65
psi
> >pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how
much
> >does the original pump put out?
> >
> >Thanks, Keith
> >84FC35
> >
> >
>
> Safe travels,
>
> Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> '84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
> Ralph's RV Solutions
>

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

Any rv parts store has them and of course Campingworld. It is an 8 amp cb I
replaced mine with a 10 amp cb when I up graded.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
'84 FC35 Duncan, Oklahoma
Ralph's RV Solutions


At 05:42 PM 5/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks Ralph, I have located the breaker and can hear it when it
>opens. Should I just replace the breaker? Do you know where I can
>get one?
>
>Keith
>84FC
>
>
>

[Pete Masterson]

THe original pump in my coach provided 40-45 lbs pressure. I
installed a ShurFlo variable speed pump that provides 65 lbs
pressure. The coach plumbing seems to be 'up' for this although I
have an anomaly with the Microphor toilet (it doesn't like pressure
above 50#). Mostly, the higher pressure gives you a better "user
experience" when you take a shower. The variable speed pump also
eliminates the need for the accumulator (expansion) tank.

Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA




On May 1, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Keith Strehle wrote:

> I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are ShurFlo
> pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed to
> put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65 psi
> pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how much
> does the original pump put out?
>
> Thanks, Keith
> 84FC35
>

[Curt Sprenger]

Pete,
Please keep us posted on the above 50# water pressure. What are you
experiencing? Have you talked with Microphor? I purchased the same pump
you have, just haven't installed it yet.

Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, Calif.



Pete Masterson wrote:

> THe original pump in my coach provided 40-45 lbs pressure. I
> installed a ShurFlo variable speed pump that provides 65 lbs
> pressure. The coach plumbing seems to be 'up' for this although I
> have an anomaly with the Microphor toilet (it doesn't like pressure
> above 50#). Mostly, the higher pressure gives you a better "user
> experience" when you take a shower. The variable speed pump also
> eliminates the need for the accumulator (expansion) tank.
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> El Sobrante, CA
>
> O
>
>
>
>

[David Brady]

I also have the Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7 65psi pump. My inlet
and outlet plumbing are long lengths of 3/4" ID tubing. The
connections to the pump are the Extreme Series Straight
fitting 3/4" quick connects, part number 94-615-04. These
fittings eliminate any elbows at both the inlet and
outlet of the pump. The trouble is, I still get pulsating and
hunting while the pump tries to zero in on the pressure and flow
required. Anyone else have this problem? It's worse on the
hot water than on the cold. I suspect an air pocket somewhere,
probably in my hot water heater. It gets better with time, but
by then, my fresh water tank is close to empty, it's time to fill
up, and the pulsating starts again. Again, I'm thinking an air
pocket.

David Brady
'02 LXi, Smokey
NC

Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> THe original pump in my coach provided 40-45 lbs pressure. I
> installed a ShurFlo variable speed pump that provides 65 lbs
> pressure. The coach plumbing seems to be 'up' for this although I
> have an anomaly with the Microphor toilet (it doesn't like pressure
> above 50#). Mostly, the higher pressure gives you a better "user
> experience" when you take a shower. The variable speed pump also
> eliminates the need for the accumulator (expansion) tank.
>
> Pete Masterson
> aeonix1@...
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> El Sobrante, CA
>
> On May 1, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Keith Strehle wrote:
>
> > I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are ShurFlo
> > pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed to
> > put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65 psi
> > pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how much
> > does the original pump put out?
> >
> > Thanks, Keith
> > 84FC35
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10
AM
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Pete Masterson]

Reading the installation instructions with the pump, it cautioned
about isolating it from vibration to the plumbing. My coach has the
gray plastic pipe (polybutyl -- that's no longer used as it was the
subject of class-action lawsuits in the late 90s due to unexpected
failures in homes and manufactured homes). I purchased "Flare-It"
fittings from PEX Connection along with a few feet of 3/4 inch I.D.
PEX tubing. PEX can be bent around corners so long as it has a
suitable bending circumference (which is a chore to accomplish in the
space available for the pump). So, from the end of the original
plumbing, I have a 3' section of PEX looped to turn 90 degrees to
enter the pump, which is mounted on one of the (apparently) wooden
boards attached to a metal bulkhead where one of the original dual
pumps was located. Again, on the outside, I have another similar 3'
section of PEX with a large loop to connect to the outbound original
plumbing. This effectively isolates the pump from transmitting
vibrations through the plumbing system. The PEX tubing is (somewhat)
flexible and the dual curves allow vibration/expansion/contraction as
necessary.

The higher pressure did not cause any unexpected problems with the
existing plumbing -- except the main fresh water drain valve started
leaking from a long-existing crack in the plastic valve body. (I
could see that it had been present for some time due to the dirt/
corrosion present.) I then replaced the drain valve and associated
fittings with brass or white plastic as appropriate.

The pump doesn't vibrate the plumbing but it isn't exactly "silent."
The mounting, even with rubber 'feet', etc. still vibrates the
bulkhead it's attached to, so you can hear the pump when it is
running -- but it's not particularly intrusive and you don't hear it
over the "whoosh" of the shower, for example.

I note, too, that I started having a problem with the Microphor
toilet flushing. It does not "like" water pressure above 50 psi and
doesn't flush properly at the 65 psi from the water pump. I've
learned to open a water faucet valve on the bathroom sink, then flush
the toilet in the fraction of a second before the pump kicks on --
temporarily solving the Microphor problem until I can install a
pressure limiter on the water line that serves the toilet.

All-in-all, I'm very satisfied with the 6.7 gpm 65 psi variable speed
pump. It has eliminated the two original pumps (that were both
leaking) and the complexity of the related plumbing along with the
accumulator (expansion) tank. (Another source of plumbing woes if the
diaphragm leaks or it becomes de-pressurized.)

I'm also enthusiastic about PEX tubing (pipe replacement) and the
Flare-It fittings. While special clamped fittings are often used with
PEX (requiring a special clamping tool), the Flare-It fittings don't
require any special tools, but a simple wrench-thing they sell makes
tightening them a breeze (I used a channel-lock plier, but their tool
would probably not leave tool marks like the pliers).

In retrospect, about the only thing I might have done differently is
to use 1/2 inch I.D. PEX tubing. It would have been much easier to
bend into the loop shapes in the area I had available -- still, I was
successful with the 3/4 inch tubing and it does not restrict the
water flow.

I do not get "pulsating" very often ... but sometimes, when the
bathroom or kitchen sink faucet is turned on, I see just a little bit
of it -- but it goes away in a moment after the pump fully comes up
to speed. I've never noticed it with the shower but, perhaps, the
flow limiter in the shower head allows the pump to 'catch up' before
any pulsating begins.

The water is heated in an AquaHot system -- this is a tankless hot
water system, so there shouldn't be any air pockets (as in a hot
water heater) on a newer coach. (I assume you have an AquaHot.)

Did you install the high-capacity water filter? I note that the
variable speed pump requires a high-flow filter. It was about twice
the size as the water filters used with the old pumps in my coach.

Rather than an air pocket, there simply may be a restriction
somewhere in the lines into or out of the pump, causing it to be
unable to fully come up to pressure as fast as it should, when a
valve is opened.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Lockhart Texas



On May 1, 2007, at 2:50 PM, David Brady wrote:

> I also have the Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7 65psi pump. My inlet
> and outlet plumbing are long lengths of 3/4" ID tubing. The
> connections to the pump are the Extreme Series Straight
> fitting 3/4" quick connects, part number 94-615-04. These
> fittings eliminate any elbows at both the inlet and
> outlet of the pump. The trouble is, I still get pulsating and
> hunting while the pump tries to zero in on the pressure and flow
> required. Anyone else have this problem? It's worse on the
> hot water than on the cold. I suspect an air pocket somewhere,
> probably in my hot water heater. It gets better with time, but
> by then, my fresh water tank is close to empty, it's time to fill
> up, and the pulsating starts again. Again, I'm thinking an air
> pocket.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, Smokey
> NC
>
> Pete Masterson wrote:
>>
>> THe original pump in my coach provided 40-45 lbs pressure. I
>> installed a ShurFlo variable speed pump that provides 65 lbs
>> pressure. The coach plumbing seems to be 'up' for this although I
>> have an anomaly with the Microphor toilet (it doesn't like pressure
>> above 50#). Mostly, the higher pressure gives you a better "user
>> experience" when you take a shower. The variable speed pump also
>> eliminates the need for the accumulator (expansion) tank.
>>
>> Pete Masterson
>> aeonix1@...
>> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
>> El Sobrante, CA
>>
>> On May 1, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Keith Strehle wrote:
>>
>>> I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are ShurFlo
>>> pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed to
>>> put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65 psi
>>> pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how much
>>> does the original pump put out?
>>>
>>> Thanks, Keith
>>> 84FC35
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date:
>> 5/1/2007 2:10 AM
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Pete Masterson]

Haven't talked to Microphor, but I got out my blue box and found the
Microphor booklet and found an exact description of my symptoms* in
the troubleshooting section. Possible cause was listed as water
pressure over 50 psi (and elsewhere in the booklet it mentioned that
the toilet was designed to work with water pressure of 30 to 50 psi).
We're on a lengthy trip -- left 4/1 and don't expect to be home much
before 6/10 -- so it's not convenient to take the plumbing off-line
for modification. I found a shut-off valve and water supply line to
the toilet in the bottom of the bathroom closet (in my configuration)
so I can easily cut the line and insert a pressure limiter there. (I
actually have an adjustable model with pressure gauge from a drip
irrigation system I no longer have in operation that I'll probably use.)

The toilet does not exhibit any problems on "shore water" (pressure
limited to about 40 psi), so I'm quite certain that it's the 65 psi
pressure from the pump.

The "work around" I've come up with is to open the faucet on the
bathroom sink, then immediately hit the flush lever for the toilet.
The variable speed pump has a very short delay before it senses the
pressure drop and kicks on -- it's just enough time for the Microphor
to start its cycle.

*Symptoms: Fails to open the flap valve (does not flush). If the flap
valve opens and closes (a flush occurs), then the toilet bowl does
not refill with water and/or the water does not flow to 'wash' the
sides of the toilet bowl.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at



On May 1, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Curt Sprenger wrote:

> Pete,
> Please keep us posted on the above 50# water pressure. What are you
> experiencing? Have you talked with Microphor? I purchased the same
> pump
> you have, just haven't installed it yet.
>
> Curt Sprenger
> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
> Anaheim Hills, Calif.
>
>
>
> Pete Masterson wrote:
>
>> THe original pump in my coach provided 40-45 lbs pressure. I
>> installed a ShurFlo variable speed pump that provides 65 lbs
>> pressure. The coach plumbing seems to be 'up' for this although I
>> have an anomaly with the Microphor toilet (it doesn't like pressure
>> above 50#). Mostly, the higher pressure gives you a better "user
>> experience" when you take a shower. The variable speed pump also
>> eliminates the need for the accumulator (expansion) tank.
>>
>> Pete Masterson
>> aeonix1@...
>> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
>> El Sobrante, CA
>>
>> O
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[David Brady]

I called Shurflo and they specified that the pump should have
at least 18 inches of elbow free tubing both at the inlet and
at the outlet. I have much more than that. I don't use any strainer
at all. All tank water is filtered as the tank is filled, so I'm
thinking that the strainer isn't necessary. With the original dual
fuel pumps both used strainers, and the strainers were always
spotless. To quiet the pump even further I mounted it using a
Jabsco vibration pad kit, part number 43990-0058. These legs
provide much more vibration dampening than the original
Shurflo legs. The pump is virtually silent. I do have aquahot.
What I experience, especially on hot water, is: as the hot water
is turned on, the pump ramps up, stops, ramps up again, stops,
and again. It may do this half a dozen times before it settles down.
In the shower, this turns in to variation in temperature. Since the
cold water pressure is fairly constant, the cold water flow stays
the same, but the hot water oscillates. The temperature varies from
say 115 deg F to 120 deg F every second or so. Very annoying.
But then, after say half the fresh water tank is used up, everything
works properly. Maybe another call to Shurflo is in order.

David B
'02 LXi, Smokey
NC

Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> Reading the installation instructions with the pump, it cautioned
> about isolating it from vibration to the plumbing. My coach has the
> gray plastic pipe (polybutyl -- that's no longer used as it was the
> subject of class-action lawsuits in the late 90s due to unexpected
> failures in homes and manufactured homes). I purchased "Flare-It"
> fittings from PEX Connection along with a few feet of 3/4 inch I.D.
> PEX tubing. PEX can be bent around corners so long as it has a
> suitable bending circumference (which is a chore to accomplish in the
> space available for the pump). So, from the end of the original
> plumbing, I have a 3' section of PEX looped to turn 90 degrees to
> enter the pump, which is mounted on one of the (apparently) wooden
> boards attached to a metal bulkhead where one of the original dual
> pumps was located. Again, on the outside, I have another similar 3'
> section of PEX with a large loop to connect to the outbound original
> plumbing. This effectively isolates the pump from transmitting
> vibrations through the plumbing system. The PEX tubing is (somewhat)
> flexible and the dual curves allow vibration/expansion/contraction as
> necessary.
>
> The higher pressure did not cause any unexpected problems with the
> existing plumbing -- except the main fresh water drain valve started
> leaking from a long-existing crack in the plastic valve body. (I
> could see that it had been present for some time due to the dirt/
> corrosion present.) I then replaced the drain valve and associated
> fittings with brass or white plastic as appropriate.
>
> The pump doesn't vibrate the plumbing but it isn't exactly "silent."
> The mounting, even with rubber 'feet', etc. still vibrates the
> bulkhead it's attached to, so you can hear the pump when it is
> running -- but it's not particularly intrusive and you don't hear it
> over the "whoosh" of the shower, for example.
>
> I note, too, that I started having a problem with the Microphor
> toilet flushing. It does not "like" water pressure above 50 psi and
> doesn't flush properly at the 65 psi from the water pump. I've
> learned to open a water faucet valve on the bathroom sink, then flush
> the toilet in the fraction of a second before the pump kicks on --
> temporarily solving the Microphor problem until I can install a
> pressure limiter on the water line that serves the toilet.
>
> All-in-all, I'm very satisfied with the 6.7 gpm 65 psi variable speed
> pump. It has eliminated the two original pumps (that were both
> leaking) and the complexity of the related plumbing along with the
> accumulator (expansion) tank. (Another source of plumbing woes if the
> diaphragm leaks or it becomes de-pressurized.)
>
> I'm also enthusiastic about PEX tubing (pipe replacement) and the
> Flare-It fittings. While special clamped fittings are often used with
> PEX (requiring a special clamping tool), the Flare-It fittings don't
> require any special tools, but a simple wrench-thing they sell makes
> tightening them a breeze (I used a channel-lock plier, but their tool
> would probably not leave tool marks like the pliers).
>
> In retrospect, about the only thing I might have done differently is
> to use 1/2 inch I.D. PEX tubing. It would have been much easier to
> bend into the loop shapes in the area I had available -- still, I was
> successful with the 3/4 inch tubing and it does not restrict the
> water flow.
>
> I do not get "pulsating" very often ... but sometimes, when the
> bathroom or kitchen sink faucet is turned on, I see just a little bit
> of it -- but it goes away in a moment after the pump fully comes up
> to speed. I've never noticed it with the shower but, perhaps, the
> flow limiter in the shower head allows the pump to 'catch up' before
> any pulsating begins.
>
> The water is heated in an AquaHot system -- this is a tankless hot
> water system, so there shouldn't be any air pockets (as in a hot
> water heater) on a newer coach. (I assume you have an AquaHot.)
>
> Did you install the high-capacity water filter? I note that the
> variable speed pump requires a high-flow filter. It was about twice
> the size as the water filters used with the old pumps in my coach.
>
> Rather than an air pocket, there simply may be a restriction
> somewhere in the lines into or out of the pump, causing it to be
> unable to fully come up to pressure as fast as it should, when a
> valve is opened.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Lockhart Texas
>
> On May 1, 2007, at 2:50 PM, David Brady wrote:
>
> > I also have the Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7 65psi pump. My inlet
> > and outlet plumbing are long lengths of 3/4" ID tubing. The
> > connections to the pump are the Extreme Series Straight
> > fitting 3/4" quick connects, part number 94-615-04. These
> > fittings eliminate any elbows at both the inlet and
> > outlet of the pump. The trouble is, I still get pulsating and
> > hunting while the pump tries to zero in on the pressure and flow
> > required. Anyone else have this problem? It's worse on the
> > hot water than on the cold. I suspect an air pocket somewhere,
> > probably in my hot water heater. It gets better with time, but
> > by then, my fresh water tank is close to empty, it's time to fill
> > up, and the pulsating starts again. Again, I'm thinking an air
> > pocket.
> >
> > David Brady
> > '02 LXi, Smokey
> > NC
> >
> > Pete Masterson wrote:
> >>
> >> THe original pump in my coach provided 40-45 lbs pressure. I
> >> installed a ShurFlo variable speed pump that provides 65 lbs
> >> pressure. The coach plumbing seems to be 'up' for this although I
> >> have an anomaly with the Microphor toilet (it doesn't like pressure
> >> above 50#). Mostly, the higher pressure gives you a better "user
> >> experience" when you take a shower. The variable speed pump also
> >> eliminates the need for the accumulator (expansion) tank.
> >>
> >> Pete Masterson
> >> aeonix1@...
> >> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> >> El Sobrante, CA
> >>
> >> On May 1, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Keith Strehle wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am going to replace my water pump this weekend. There are ShurFlo
> >>> pumps available on the shelf for about $70. The pump is supposed to
> >>> put out 45 psi but I've heard many people here talk about the 65 psi
> >>> pumps. 65 psi seems a little much. Is 65 psi necessary and how much
> >>> does the original pump put out?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Keith
> >>> 84FC35
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> ---
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date:
> >> 5/1/2007 2:10 AM
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10
AM
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]