Anti-RV "No Overnight Parking" bill in Maine Legislature

[Ryan Wright]

>> Within a mile there were 3 RV parks & 2 RV dealerships and this stupid idiot
was squatting
>> on the Walmart property for 2 days. It's idiots like this which provoke
legislation

Isn't that decision up to Wal-Mart, though? I mean, really - if
Wal-Mart doesn't want people squatting in their parking lot, then it's
up to Wal-Mart to ask them to leave. What business do the local
politicians have in telling private property owners who can and can't
park in their parking lots and for what length of time?

Fact is, this is a property rights issue. If the city wants to tell
RVers they can't park on city property, that's their business, but
whether I park and camp at Wal-Mart is between me and Wal-Mart.

In the case above, if the manager wanted the guy to leave, he should
have asked the guy to leave. Period. Personally, if I were the
manager, as long as the guy was in the far corner of my parking lot
not taking up spaces used by other customers, I'd be happy to have his
business. I'm sure he bought food & supplies from the store while he
was there.

>> The slobs who dump their tanks and refuse in the parking lots and abuse the
system
>> are to blame.

I'm with Bruce on this. Has anyone here actually seen this happen? I'd
be really surprised if anyone here has actually seen someone
intentionally dump their holding tanks all over the asphalt in a
parking lot. I'd imagine such a thing is incredibly rare, if it
happens at all.

As for me: We boondock constantly. That's half the reason I bought a
Wanderlodge - the extreme range and boondocking potential provided by
the large fuel, water & holding tanks. We'll roll into a Wal-Mart
parking lot or truck stop, have dinner, sleep, have breakfast and get
on the road. It's fast and easy - I don't really like campgrounds and
reservations and all that, I prefer to just sleep when I get tired. We
rarely stay anywhere more than 10-12 hours, often it's less than 8,
and we always buy something from the store while we're there (usually
groceries).

I don't look up the city ordinances for every city we stop in and I'm
not going to. If a cop knocks on my door and asks me to leave, I will
gladly move on. If he issues me a ticket, I'll just drop it in the
shredder when I get home. Unless there are clearly posted signs, I'm
not going to pay some city's parking extortion fee.

These things don't seem to be enforced much, anyway. The city next to
mine passed a similar law and posted signs all over the Wal-Mart
parking lot, yet there are multiple RVs camping there every time I
drive past.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92


On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 7:58 AM, birdshill123 wrote:
>
>
> Michael Brody:
>
> This is a hot button topic. Whenever it is being discusses people post about
> sewage being dumped. I would like to hear from others who have actually seen
> this happen. More of an urban legend than anything else. This type of
> legislation is usually pushed by some small minded CG owner. Of course they
> are suffering in this economy but so is everyone else. As others have
> stated: Try going into a CG at 10 p.m. The gates may be locked. You have to
> find your own space and disturb everyone else. Overnighting at a Wal mart or
> a "J" is not hurting these CG owners. Wal Mart users are not wanting a CG ,
> just a place to park overnight. Yes there are abusers but they remain a
> minority. The legislation is poorly written and could address the problem
> with some sort of time limit. I hope that everyone e mails that legislator
> and if the bill is passed we should all avoid Maine . Jurisdictions that
> have pased similar legislation have either suffered a loss of tourism or
> have rescinded the regs. There are plenty of other states who welcome us!!!
>
> Bruce
>
> 1988 FC35
>
>

[Jack & Donna Smith]

When we "WalMart" overnight, we go into the store and ask the Manager. We will
have a cart with those "Always Needed items" so they see that we do buy
something.......
As to the Parking regs., It was explained to me that if it is a stand alone
Walmart, who also owns the parking lot, Walmart then has no objection, but the
City may.... But if it is a leased store, that is one that shares the parking
lot with the other stores in the complex, then the owner of the whole bunch can
set his own policy...
Jack Smith
1973 FC31
SoCal, where overnighting in most WalMarts,(and others)is verboten!

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright wrote:
>
> >> Within a mile there were 3 RV parks & 2 RV dealerships and this stupid
idiot was squatting
> >> on the Walmart property for 2 days. It's idiots like this which provoke
legislation
>
> Isn't that decision up to Wal-Mart, though? I mean, really - if
> Wal-Mart doesn't want people squatting in their parking lot, then it's
> up to Wal-Mart to ask them to leave. What business do the local
> politicians have in telling private property owners who can and can't
> park in their parking lots and for what length of time?
>
> Fact is, this is a property rights issue. If the city wants to tell
> RVers they can't park on city property, that's their business, but
> whether I park and camp at Wal-Mart is between me and Wal-Mart.
>
> In the case above, if the manager wanted the guy to leave, he should
> have asked the guy to leave. Period. Personally, if I were the
> manager, as long as the guy was in the far corner of my parking lot
> not taking up spaces used by other customers, I'd be happy to have his
> business. I'm sure he bought food & supplies from the store while he
> was there.
>
> >> The slobs who dump their tanks and refuse in the parking lots and abuse the
system
> >> are to blame.
>
> I'm with Bruce on this. Has anyone here actually seen this happen? I'd
> be really surprised if anyone here has actually seen someone
> intentionally dump their holding tanks all over the asphalt in a
> parking lot. I'd imagine such a thing is incredibly rare, if it
> happens at all.
>
> As for me: We boondock constantly. That's half the reason I bought a
> Wanderlodge - the extreme range and boondocking potential provided by
> the large fuel, water & holding tanks. We'll roll into a Wal-Mart
> parking lot or truck stop, have dinner, sleep, have breakfast and get
> on the road. It's fast and easy - I don't really like campgrounds and
> reservations and all that, I prefer to just sleep when I get tired. We
> rarely stay anywhere more than 10-12 hours, often it's less than 8,
> and we always buy something from the store while we're there (usually
> groceries).
>
> I don't look up the city ordinances for every city we stop in and I'm
> not going to. If a cop knocks on my door and asks me to leave, I will
> gladly move on. If he issues me a ticket, I'll just drop it in the
> shredder when I get home. Unless there are clearly posted signs, I'm
> not going to pay some city's parking extortion fee.
>
> These things don't seem to be enforced much, anyway. The city next to
> mine passed a similar law and posted signs all over the Wal-Mart
> parking lot, yet there are multiple RVs camping there every time I
> drive past.
>
> -Ryan
> '86 PT-40 8V92
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 7:58 AM, birdshill123 wrote:
> >
> >
> > Michael Brody:
> >
> > This is a hot button topic. Whenever it is being discusses people post about
> > sewage being dumped. I would like to hear from others who have actually seen
> > this happen. More of an urban legend than anything else. This type of
> > legislation is usually pushed by some small minded CG owner. Of course they
> > are suffering in this economy but so is everyone else. As others have
> > stated: Try going into a CG at 10 p.m. The gates may be locked. You have to
> > find your own space and disturb everyone else. Overnighting at a Wal mart or
> > a "J" is not hurting these CG owners. Wal Mart users are not wanting a CG ,
> > just a place to park overnight. Yes there are abusers but they remain a
> > minority. The legislation is poorly written and could address the problem
> > with some sort of time limit. I hope that everyone e mails that legislator
> > and if the bill is passed we should all avoid Maine . Jurisdictions that
> > have pased similar legislation have either suffered a loss of tourism or
> > have rescinded the regs. There are plenty of other states who welcome us!!!
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > 1988 FC35
> >
> >
>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

Good news...I heard that wal-mart is going to provide Electric Hookups for us
overnighters or was that a dream I had while smokin..................
Hank 90SP36 stored in Los wages

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
wrote:
>
> When we "WalMart" overnight, we go into the store and ask the Manager. We
will have a cart with those "Always Needed items" so they see that we do buy
something.......
> As to the Parking regs., It was explained to me that if it is a stand alone
Walmart, who also owns the parking lot, Walmart then has no objection, but the
City may.... But if it is a leased store, that is one that shares the parking
lot with the other stores in the complex, then the owner of the whole bunch can
set his own policy...
> Jack Smith
> 1973 FC31
> SoCal, where overnighting in most WalMarts,(and others)is verboten!
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright wrote:
> >
> > >> Within a mile there were 3 RV parks & 2 RV dealerships and this stupid
idiot was squatting
> > >> on the Walmart property for 2 days. It's idiots like this which provoke
legislation
> >
> > Isn't that decision up to Wal-Mart, though? I mean, really - if
> > Wal-Mart doesn't want people squatting in their parking lot, then it's
> > up to Wal-Mart to ask them to leave. What business do the local
> > politicians have in telling private property owners who can and can't
> > park in their parking lots and for what length of time?
> >
> > Fact is, this is a property rights issue. If the city wants to tell
> > RVers they can't park on city property, that's their business, but
> > whether I park and camp at Wal-Mart is between me and Wal-Mart.
> >
> > In the case above, if the manager wanted the guy to leave, he should
> > have asked the guy to leave. Period. Personally, if I were the
> > manager, as long as the guy was in the far corner of my parking lot
> > not taking up spaces used by other customers, I'd be happy to have his
> > business. I'm sure he bought food & supplies from the store while he
> > was there.
> >
> > >> The slobs who dump their tanks and refuse in the parking lots and abuse
the system
> > >> are to blame.
> >
> > I'm with Bruce on this. Has anyone here actually seen this happen? I'd
> > be really surprised if anyone here has actually seen someone
> > intentionally dump their holding tanks all over the asphalt in a
> > parking lot. I'd imagine such a thing is incredibly rare, if it
> > happens at all.
> >
> > As for me: We boondock constantly. That's half the reason I bought a
> > Wanderlodge - the extreme range and boondocking potential provided by
> > the large fuel, water & holding tanks. We'll roll into a Wal-Mart
> > parking lot or truck stop, have dinner, sleep, have breakfast and get
> > on the road. It's fast and easy - I don't really like campgrounds and
> > reservations and all that, I prefer to just sleep when I get tired. We
> > rarely stay anywhere more than 10-12 hours, often it's less than 8,
> > and we always buy something from the store while we're there (usually
> > groceries).
> >
> > I don't look up the city ordinances for every city we stop in and I'm
> > not going to. If a cop knocks on my door and asks me to leave, I will
> > gladly move on. If he issues me a ticket, I'll just drop it in the
> > shredder when I get home. Unless there are clearly posted signs, I'm
> > not going to pay some city's parking extortion fee.
> >
> > These things don't seem to be enforced much, anyway. The city next to
> > mine passed a similar law and posted signs all over the Wal-Mart
> > parking lot, yet there are multiple RVs camping there every time I
> > drive past.
> >
> > -Ryan
> > '86 PT-40 8V92
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 7:58 AM, birdshill123 wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Brody:
> > >
> > > This is a hot button topic. Whenever it is being discusses people post
about
> > > sewage being dumped. I would like to hear from others who have actually
seen
> > > this happen. More of an urban legend than anything else. This type of
> > > legislation is usually pushed by some small minded CG owner. Of course
they
> > > are suffering in this economy but so is everyone else. As others have
> > > stated: Try going into a CG at 10 p.m. The gates may be locked. You have
to
> > > find your own space and disturb everyone else. Overnighting at a Wal mart
or
> > > a "J" is not hurting these CG owners. Wal Mart users are not wanting a CG
,
> > > just a place to park overnight. Yes there are abusers but they remain a
> > > minority. The legislation is poorly written and could address the problem
> > > with some sort of time limit. I hope that everyone e mails that legislator
> > > and if the bill is passed we should all avoid Maine . Jurisdictions that
> > > have pased similar legislation have either suffered a loss of tourism or
> > > have rescinded the regs. There are plenty of other states who welcome
us!!!
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > > 1988 FC35
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Al Scudder]

If someone dumped on the Wal-Mart lot and I was the store manager I would be a little PO's at that but then I would call my local Police and show them the film of the action and that will also show tyhe culprit and the plate number. Any body going into a Wal-Mart with a attitude about parking and not ask the Manger if it was okay then you are the problem. I have called managers and gotten the okay and I have done that at Wal-Mart and McDonalds. But I will take the Truck stop or a rest stop and stop for that Nap or a overnight . It like the armed forces......It's anAdventure!

Scooter 2000LX Ocqueoc, MI

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: bamnc@...
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 14:59:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Anti-RV "No Overnight Parking" bill in Maine Legislature

Bruce, like so many things if existing regulations were enforced there would be no problems. Don't allow "camping" in parking lots.

If sewage is dumped (which I have not seen) then take the appropriate action.

Why do we continue to persecute all for the actions of so few?

Regards, Bruce Morris in Raleigh, NC
Webmaster - http://www.wanderlodge.us

Vietnam Vet 1966-67 Navy "Doc" 3rd MarDiv
1983 FC35RB FMCA #7142s

----- Original Message -----

From: "birdshill123@yahoo.com"

To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:58 AM

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Anti-RV "No Overnight Parking" bill in Maine Legislature

Michael Brody:

This is a hot button topic. Whenever it is being discusses people post about sewage being dumped. I would like to hear from others who have actually seen this happen. More of an urban legend than anything else. This type of legislation is usually pushed by some small minded CG owner. Of course they are suffering in this economy but so is everyone else. As others have stated: Try going into a CG at 10 p.m. The gates may be locked. You have to find your own space and disturb everyone else. Overnighting at a Wal mart or a "J" is not hurting these CG owners. Wal Mart users are not wanting a CG , just a place to park overnight. Yes there are abusers but they remain a minority. The legislation is poorly written and could address the problem with some sort of time limit. I hope that everyone e mails that legislator and if the bill is passed we should all avoid Maine . Jurisdictions that have pased similar legislation have either suffered a loss of tourism or have rescinded the regs. There are plenty of other states who welcome us!!!

Bruce

1988 FC35

[pattypape]

Anne Perry, Maine Legislature, Withdrew this bill, after researching and
receiving inputs, it did not solve what ever she was trying to accomplish, &
created other issues, ???

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerW...=280030441

Bill 88 FC Michigan


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "jamesobriant" wrote:
>
> I just sent the following information to my OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group,
and asked that they post it on any other RV-related discussion groups. Here's
the current status of the bill, and some people to contact about it:
>
> ======================
>
> The State of Maine is currently considering legislation which would make it
illegal for RVs to park overnight in "any public parking structure" (i.e.,
business parking lots) anyplace in the state of Maine. If this bill (HP 98, LD
114) passes, it would be illegal for RVers to park for the night and sleep in
their RVs at any business other than "a mobile home park or recreational vehicle
park allowed by a municipality or a camping area licensed by the department."
>
> The penalty for violating this proposed law would be $100, which would be
suspended upon first violation. It's the RVer who would be fined, not the
business.
>
> Shortcomings in the law include:
>
> (1) No need for self-contained RV's to use or pay for many campground
amenities when all that's needed is a night's sleep.
>
> (2) Language of the bill would make it illegal for RVers to park overnight at
truck stops.
>
> (3) No provision for where RVers would stay from late fall through early
spring, when nearly all Maine campgrounds are closed for the season.
>
> (4) No provision requiring campgrounds to be open to check RVers in at any
time of day or night when they might arrive.
>
> (5) No provision requiring campgrounds to offer facilities to accommodate any
kind of RV, including spaces to accommodate the largest rigs, or for campgrounds
to provide and maintain access roads with sufficient weight-bearing capacity and
adequate clearances.
>
> (6) No forethought as to what impact there will be on the Maine tourist
economy if RVers elect to avoid visiting, passing through or spending money in
Maine, as they did in Billings, MT, Laughlin, NV and Reno, NV when those cities
attempted to enact or enforce similar bans on a local basis.
>
> (7) The general principle of forcing member of the public (RVers) to patronize
businesses (campgrounds) that they may not want to patronize.
>
> (8) Some of the legislative material also mentions the issue of waste
disposal, the usual "red herring" that campground owners throw out when
pressuring for this kind of law. The law would punish all RVers for the
transgressions of the very few who dump tanks where they shouldn't, an action
that is already illegal, and only requires enforcement to prevent it.
>
>
> This bill is currently tabled in the Maine House of Representatives. I has yet
to be passed by either the Maine House or the Maine Senate. I've been able to
find no indication of the likelihood of its being passed, but when I telephoned
the legislative offices to find out the bill's status, the clerk who took my
call was unaware of the bill, then read it, and thought it was stupid.
>
> Here is a link to the text of the bill:
>
> http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bi...billpdfs/H
> P009802.pdf
>
> (Yahoo or your email program will probably spit that link, so you'll have to
piece it back together in the address bar of your
> browser.)
>
> The sponsor of the bill is Rep. Anne C. Perry, Democrat from Calais, ME. Here
is her contact information, as taken from the Maine Legislature Website:
>
> Address: 474 South Street, Calais, ME 04619 Home Telephone: (207) 454-7338
Cell Phone: (207) 214-7000 Home E-Mail: aperry@... State House E-Mail:
RepAnne.Perry@...
> Legislative Web Site: http://www.maine.gov/legis/housedems/aperry
> (Additional information, news, etc.,
> from the House Majority Office)
> State House Message Phone: (800) 423-2900 State House TTY Line: (207) 287-4469
> Representing: District 31 - Baileyville, Baring, Calais, Charlotte,
Passamaquoddy Indian Township, Passamaquoddy Pleasant Point, Perry and
Robbinston, plus part of the unorganized territory of North Washington
> Committee: Health and Human Services (Chair) Party Affiliation: Democrat Legal
Residence: Calais Seat in House Chamber: 68
> Occupation: Nurse Practitioner
> Family: 3 Children, 2 Grandchildren
>
> ===========
>
> The House Majority Leader in the Maine Legislature is John F.
> Piotti, a Democrat from Unity, ME. Here is his contact information, as taken
from the Maine Legislature Website:
>
> Address: 1075 Albion Road, Unity, ME 04988 Home Telephone: (207) 437-2493
Business Telephone: (207) 287-1430 Home E-Mail: piotti@... State House E-Mail:
RepJohn.Piotti@...
> Legislative Web Site: http://www.maine.gov/legis/housedems/jpiotti
> (Additional information, news, etc.,
> from the House Majority Office)
> State House Message Phone: (800) 423-2900 State House TTY Line: (207) 287-4469
> Representing: District 45 - Burnham, Freedom, Knox, Montville, Palermo,
Thorndike, Troy and Unity
> Committee: Rules and Business of the House Party Affiliation: Democrat Legal
Residence: Unity Seat in House Chamber: 1
> Occupation: Executive Director of State-Wide Non-Profit
> Family: Susan (Wife), 2 Children
>
> =================
>
> Here are two more contacts in Maine:
>
> Governor John Baldacci
>
> Communicate your comments to the Governor:
>
> http://www.maine.gov/governor/baldacci/c...ervices/sh
> are_views.html
>
> (Yahoo or your email program will probably spit that link, so you'll have to
piece it back together in the address bar of your
> browser.)
>
> Or go to:
>
> http://www.maine.gov/governor/baldacci/index.shtml
>
> Then scroll down to "Citizen Services" and click the [Share your views] link.
>
> Other contact information:
>
> Mailing Address
> Office of the Governor
> #1 State House Station
> Augusta, ME 04333-0001
> Phone
> 207-287-3531
> 207-287-6548 (TTY)
> Fax
> 207-287-1034
>
> ============
>
> The President of the Main Chamber of Commerce is Mr. Dana Connors (that's MR.
Connors, not MS.), and his email address is:
>
> dana.f.connors@...
>
> Because Yahoo truncates email addresses, this may be useful:
>
> dana.f.connors (at) mainechamber (dot) org
>
> =============
>
> Jim O'Briant
> Gilroy, CA
> Administrator, http://www.OvernightRVParking.com
>