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Pricey repairs - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Pricey repairs (/showthread.php?tid=1448) |
Pricey repairs - winbarrows - 10-18-2005 06:50 I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston Pricey repairs - mbulriss - 10-18-2005 08:52 Winston, I think you've got to put this into perspective. I think the question is not: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? Rather the question should be: are all Recreational Vehicles so expensive to repair? My feeling is that if you are not somewhat handy and adventuresome, the answer is absolutley "yes". All RVs are complicated machines with lots of parts stuffed in every nook and crany. It's bascially a house going down the road. If you are going to have someone else perform each and every maintenance item and little repair, then it is going to be expensive, no matter what RV/motor coach/bus you get. Ralph can chime in here, but I think he and every other repair facility charges the same shop rate for Wanderlodges as for plastic palaces. So for routine repairs, they are no more expensive. A roof top air conditioner of "x" btu cpacity, or a house water pump, is the same price whether on a Winnebago or a Wanderlodge. It is true that Wanderlodges are extremely heavy built machinery, so mechanical repairs/parts/maintenance can be much more than a gas powered vehicle. But relative to the class of coach, the Wanderlodge is no more expensive than a Prevost for mechanical repairs. Can they be expensive? Absolutely. That's why most people recommend a good size safety net of cash in your budget for repairs, just in case. As regards your specific example, you did not mention which style of 91 you were referring to. On a 91 PT (don't know about the SP) there are actually two alternators. One is on top of the engine and easily accessed through a hatch cover under the bed. The other is below the engine and behind the rear bumper. I have not had to remove either, but after adjusting the belts and looking at the one behind the bumper, I do not recall seeing anything that led me to believe that I would have to remove the bumper to get it off. Even if I had to, that can't be more than 20 minutes work with the proper power tools that every repair facility should have. Let's see, at $75 per hour, that example comes up to 20 hours of labor to remove and replace an alternator?! I think we are missing part of the story here. If that story you were told is true, my guess is they saw him coming and took him to the cleaners (once again, probably). I repeat my opening belief that if you are not somewhat mechanically inclined and adventuresome, then any RV is going to be expensive to maintain and repair. Within its class 8 category, the Wanderlodge is not anymore expensive than any other comparable coach. Mike Bulriss 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, Texas --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "winbarrows" > > I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman > told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if > you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper > and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. > Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Pricey repairs - Ralph L. Fullenwider - 10-18-2005 14:44 Hello Winston: Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel wells along with various other damage can occur. As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? Even removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. Perhaps something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out. More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? That is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen that bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in fact I would be dubious of it. Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one another as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair work < which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can help you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs. Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum. In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and bounders and Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their coach. Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum gives anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those that do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is nothing wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but safety out on the road. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote: >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > > > > Pricey repairs - Curt Sprenger - 10-18-2005 16:23 Winston, I don't have the start of this thread. I'll send you my work-items and cost-ledger spread sheets (SS) if you like. We purchased the 1987 PT38 in February of the year. The spread sheets will give you a good idea about work-items and cost. You will need to keep in mind that I'm spending more dollars than the average person would spend...that's just me...everything gets attention even though some items could wait or never receive attention. Our Bird is getting everything it needs to come back to original, and better. Send me your email address and I'll send the spread sheets to you. Good luck in your search. Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif. Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote: > Hello Winston: > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel > wells along with various other damage can occur. > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? > Even > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. > Perhaps > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out. > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? > That > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen > that > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in > fact I > would be dubious of it. > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one > another > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair > work < > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can > help > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs. > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum. > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and > bounders and > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their > coach. > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum > gives > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those > that > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is > nothing > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but > safety out on the road. > > Safe travels, > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma > http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm > > > > At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote: > >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman > >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if > >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper > >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. > >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>" on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Pricey repairs - Scott - 10-19-2005 01:45 Good morning Winston, I must "throw" my .02 in here as well. A couple of the guys have given great answers to your question but let me relate another personal experience if you will. I DO believe that when you pull into a place for service and they see the BEAUTIFUL BB many also see $$$. I needed to replaced the exhaust for my old genny and pulled into a muffler shop that "specialized in RV" repairs. The owner went into great detail about the "special" muffler, noise reduction and some other BS and bottom line told me that the "special" muffler was going to cost me about 350.00-400.00 to replace...I kindly asked him to hold a rusty piece of exhaust pipe until I returned from lunch and they could start...I went two blocks and bought the same parts from the same place he would have for less than 50.00 and paid another shop 50.00 to weld it all together. I hope the first guy is STILL holding that pipe!!! I think that with any older,vintage, car, boat RV the owner should have "some" idea of what is going on. (Many of my friends here can attest I have only "some" idea..LOL) BUT that is where we start to differentiate ..Most of the BB community is willing to offer information, help and opinions that in many cases can be accomplished in a few minutes with the help of a computer. The BB corporation STILL offers customer support 24/7 for my coach which is a 1986..20 yrs old...MOST other RV's aren't even on the road let alone still supported. ONE more lil storey, on my recent return from FLA I was in a Pilot truck stop and three brand new BB pulled in and parked. They were being delivered to a dealer..but two of the drivers looked at my 86 and smiled that sure is nice..I thanked them and asked how many they see..the really smiled and informed me that they actually helped BUILD MY COACH!!! I bought them a soda and thanked them for building such a product that still turns heads 20 yrs after she rolled off the assembly line...THAT SIR IS PART OF THE BLUE BIRD EXERIENCE..So don't be concerned..do your home work..and you will see..Heck you might just own one!! Scott 86FC35 "RUBY" Murrells Inlet SC (hoping that storm stays outta here) --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Curt Sprenger > > Winston, > I don't have the start of this thread. I'll send you my work-items and > cost-ledger spread sheets (SS) if you like. We purchased the 1987 PT38 > in February of the year. The spread sheets will give you a good idea > about work-items and cost. You will need to keep in mind that I'm > spending more dollars than the average person would spend...that's just > me...everything gets attention even though some items could wait or > never receive attention. Our Bird is getting everything it needs to come > back to original, and better. Send me your email address and I'll send > the spread sheets to you. Good luck in your search. > > Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif. > > > > Ralph L. Fullenwider wrote: > > > Hello Winston: > > > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some > > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel > > wells along with various other damage can occur. > > > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? > > Even > > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. > > Perhaps > > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out. > > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? > > That > > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen > > that > > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in > > fact I > > would be dubious of it. > > > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one > > another > > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to > > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to > > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking > > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair > > work < > > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the > > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach > > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can > > help > > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs. > > > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run > > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more > > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a > > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and > > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a > > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum. > > > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on > > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and > > bounders and > > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the > > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their > > coach. > > > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum > > gives > > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with > > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those > > that > > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater > > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is > > nothing > > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but > > safety out on the road. > > > > Safe travels, > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma > > http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm > > > > > > > > At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote: > > >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman > > >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if > > >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper > > >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. > > >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>" on the web. > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > > > Pricey repairs - winston barrows - 10-19-2005 04:14 < Hi, Ralph, According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and three hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes: I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service. $115.00 per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is getting something done, done right, and done to the high expectations that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the top of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of the coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble floor. the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look at the alternator/battery system because the green dash light sometimes came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator. Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems) $350; Cost of labor to replace alternator? $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper off, and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three hours off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper). You don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at Bluebirds. Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell if you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you need a fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130 per hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what was checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't track in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't work. The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End of owner email text. It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum should be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge ownership. A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience with them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so much, then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate? "Ralph L. Fullenwider" Hello Winston: Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel wells along with various other damage can occur. As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? Even removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. Perhaps something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out. More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? That is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen that bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in fact I would be dubious of it. Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one another as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair work < which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can help you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs. Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum. In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and bounders and Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their coach. Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum gives anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those that do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is nothing wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but safety out on the road. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote: >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > > > > --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Pricey repairs - erniecarpet@... - 10-19-2005 07:14 We have all heard from folks who get taken for a ride in the repair bill department. hopefully here, we can help you avoid a large costly mistake. I know that Stewart and stevenson in Dallas is on my list of- don't go there. Sounds like Buddy Gregg just got added to it. There are quite a few individuals that can help out with repairs- and they are listed in our Database. Erniee-83pt40 in montana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Pricey repairs - mbulriss - 10-19-2005 08:49 Winston, Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his tales of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part! As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated consumers and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. <Scott, I hope that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust pipe also!> Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph comment further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way to make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check for a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was $4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just replace one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either! Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4 hours labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a half I took to do it myself! I work slow..... Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in question was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe Hank or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get to the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total to get that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now! The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have some special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on the Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-professional" tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer shop. While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money away, you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil changes. Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more concerned with doing things a little more economically, and having it done right the first time. As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a smart consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw yourself to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here should indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked. Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here seems to be an anomoly rather than the rule. Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone that really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the prospective Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises. Good luck with your hunt! Mike Bulriss 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, Texas --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows > > < maybe 4 hours.>> > Hi, Ralph, > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and three hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes: > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service. $115.00 per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is getting something done, done right, and done to the high expectations that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the top of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of the coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble floor. the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look at the alternator/battery system because the green dash light sometimes came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator. Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems) $350; Cost of labor to replace alternator? > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper off, and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three hours off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper). You don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at Bluebirds. Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell if you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you need a fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130 per hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what was checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't track in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't work. > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End of owner email text. > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum should be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge ownership. A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience with them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so much, then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate? > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" > Hello Winston: > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel > wells along with various other damage can occur. > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? Even > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. Perhaps > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out. > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? That > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen that > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in fact I > would be dubious of it. > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one another > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair work < > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can help > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs. > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum. > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and bounders and > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their coach. > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum gives > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those that > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is nothing > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but > safety out on the road. > > Safe travels, > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma > http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm > > > > At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote: > >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman > >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if > >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper > >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. > >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Pricey repairs - Wallace Craig - 10-19-2005 13:29 Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We (Ralph & I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you with details, but far too many problems to correct including new tires and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other deals. Regards; Wallace & Faye Craig mbulriss <mbulriss@...> wrote: Winston, Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his tales of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part! As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated consumers and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I hope that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust pipe also!> Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph comment further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way to make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check for a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was $4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just replace one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either! Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4 hours labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a half I took to do it myself! I work slow..... Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in question was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe Hank or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get to the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total to get that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now! The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have some special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on the Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-professional" tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer shop. While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money away, you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil changes. Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more concerned with doing things a little more economically, and having it done right the first time. As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a smart consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw yourself to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here should indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked. Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here seems to be an anomoly rather than the rule. Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone that really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the prospective Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises. Good luck with your hunt! Mike Bulriss 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, Texas --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows wrote: > > > Hi, Ralph, > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and three hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes: > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service. $115.00 per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is getting something done, done right, and done to the high expectations that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the top of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of the coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble floor. the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look at the alternator/battery system because the green dash light sometimes came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator. Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems) $350; Cost of labor to replace alternator? > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper off, and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three hours off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper). You don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at Bluebirds. Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell if you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you need a fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130 per hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what was checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't track in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools don't work. > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End of owner email text. > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum should be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge ownership. A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience with them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so much, then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate? > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote: > Hello Winston: > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And yes, some > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire and wheel > wells along with various other damage can occur. > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but necessary? Even > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4 hours. Perhaps > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be drilled out. > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each tech.? That > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have seen that > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop, in fact I > would be dubious of it. > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help one another > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the Country to > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops not to > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of seeking > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the repair work < > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can come to the > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when taking a Coach > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that can help > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on costs. > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will usually run > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with more > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact that a > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems work and > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask for a > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and stickum. > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I work on > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and bounders and > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that prefers the > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on their coach. > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the forum gives > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it along with > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of those that > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a greater > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There is nothing > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only fun but > safety out on the road. > > Safe travels, > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma > http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm > > > > At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote: > >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a gentleman > >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his. Like if > >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper > >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for that. > >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Pricey repairs - Joe Hagan - 10-19-2005 14:14 Mike and all: I have just recently joined the forum because of my interest in Wanderlodge coaches. I agree with your remark that It is always a good idea to have a used vehicle mechanically checked-out by a qualified mechanic/technician - particularly with the large amount one typically invests in purchasing a high-end coach. I enjoy the forum and hope that one day I might be able to share some experiences (good, I hope) if and when I purchase a Wanderlodge. All my coach experience was with Continental Trailways when there still was a Continental Trailways Regards, Joe (Pappy) Hagan St. George, UT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |