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Members helping members - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Members helping members (/showthread.php?tid=3576) |
Members helping members - Gregory OConnor - 10-05-2006 00:08 I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product, he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second 5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep) Members are also buyers Gregory O'Connor 94PtRomolandCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence" > > Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem. > Bob Lawrence > 84 PT36 > Tacoma, Wa > > > > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that > goes back beyond 1990. > > MH > > From: Harvey Lawrence > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members > > > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue > > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem. > > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40 > Members helping members - Mike Hohnstein - 10-05-2006 01:06 Great points O'Conner. Another issue is too many obsess on the word HOME and forget about MOTOR. In other words, many tend to over look the fact that it is a motor vehicle, not something you can gain equity with. Goof ball sales personnel will try to plant the equity mind set in the dazzled consumer. I'm amazed at the number of people who fall for that fairytale. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory OConnor To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product, he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second 5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep) Members are also buyers Gregory O'Connor 94PtRomolandCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence" > > Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem. > Bob Lawrence > 84 PT36 > Tacoma, Wa > > > > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that > goes back beyond 1990. > > MH > > From: Harvey Lawrence > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members > > > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue > > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem. > > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Members helping members - mbulriss - 10-05-2006 03:34 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > I do believe that if a seller has confident claims about the > condition of his product, he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 > warranty' (seller pays second 5G's of a repair within the first year Greg, Nice idea, but it doesn't seem to work at all in this market. When I was selling Stagecoach 2 years ago, not only did I price it about $5k under any comparable units on the market then, but I also offered the exact kind of open-ended second $$ warranty that you suggest - no questions asked (specifying only that any work to be done by someone I trust to know what he was doing - namely Ralph. I had worked the deal with Ralph to pay him directly, up to the limit of the warranty amount.) No one else was offering such a deal, but I was confident of what I had. It had *absolutely* no effect on the sale. The market at that time seemed like it was full of folks that thought they were going to be able to get an excellent PT40 for $30K or less!! Ask Harvey about those people! I think a lot of lookers today are looking for the excellent shape FC for $10K! Those buyers don't understand the product and confuse these things with trashed out 20 year old plastic palaces. Those excellent $10K buses don't exist. If you want a re-builder project, start with a shell and have at it. You'll be busy and upside down in a re-builder forever. Stagecoach sold for what I expected, to a guy that owned several other older buses and who understood the value of what he was getting. Mike Bulriss 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, TX --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > > I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job > away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping > over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first > year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that > if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product, > he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second > 5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no > mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market > value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want > to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility > and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep) > > Members are also buyers > > Gregory O'Connor > 94PtRomolandCa > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence" > > > > > Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem. > > Bob Lawrence > > 84 PT36 > > Tacoma, Wa > > > > > > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that > > goes back beyond 1990. > > > MH > > > From: Harvey Lawrence > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members > > > > > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue > > > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem. > > > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40 > > > Members helping members - rogerwwebb - 10-05-2006 04:19 Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as `restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of pleasure and pride. We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-end coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91. Roger Webb Cedar Rapids, IA 91WLWB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Members helping members - Leroy Eckert - 10-05-2006 11:50 For What It's Worth: I agree with O'Conner and Roger except I chose another angle when looking for my bus. I believe in the value approach. Value is the fair or proper equivalent in money and is determined at a point in time. When searching for a bus I looked at many coaches in my price range. Understanding coaches are depreciable assets I ignored the cost of normal maintenance. I did consider deferred maintenance and any upgrades that were made by previous owners. I knew when I walked up to the bus I now own that it was in fine shape. I bought it on the spot. Did I pay to much? The jury is still out. I paid more than I wanted to pay! Everything is relative, you get what you pay for. Two years of ownership has(knock on wood) supported my decision. Very few problems. The majority of heavy dollars have been spent on elective upgrades. Like all Bluebird owners, I'm not embarrassed to pull my rig right up next to a brand new $2,000,000 Prevost. He ain't laugh'n, I am. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Niceville, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: rogerwwebb To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as `restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of pleasure and pride. We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-end coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91. Roger Webb Cedar Rapids, IA 91WLWB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Members helping members - Wilhelmus Schreurs - 10-05-2006 11:57 Good point Leroy. But the biggest thing that matters "Are you happy with the purchase you made" Nothing else should really matter. Bill 84FC325SB Terrace, B.C. Leroy Eckert For What It's Worth: I agree with O'Conner and Roger except I chose another angle when looking for my bus. I believe in the value approach. Value is the fair or proper equivalent in money and is determined at a point in time. When searching for a bus I looked at many coaches in my price range. Understanding coaches are depreciable assets I ignored the cost of normal maintenance. I did consider deferred maintenance and any upgrades that were made by previous owners. I knew when I walked up to the bus I now own that it was in fine shape. I bought it on the spot. Did I pay to much? The jury is still out. I paid more than I wanted to pay! Everything is relative, you get what you pay for. Two years of ownership has(knock on wood) supported my decision. Very few problems. The majority of heavy dollars have been spent on elective upgrades. Like all Bluebird owners, I'm not embarrassed to pull my rig right up next to a brand new $2,000,000 Prevost. He ain't laugh'n, I am. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Niceville, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: rogerwwebb To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as `restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of pleasure and pride. We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-end coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91. Roger Webb Cedar Rapids, IA 91WLWB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" Terrace, B.C. Canada --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail --------------------------------- Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Members helping members - Henry Jay Hannigan - 10-05-2006 12:12 ---Mike: I agree with your comments.....someone who knows BIRDS will recognize my 80FC31 is worth $30,000...The bugs have been fixed...I could rattle on and on but I'll just mention new transmission with a 2 year allison corporation warranty....Heck, I'm already Giving away my "like new" 90SP36 with 41,000 miles and new tires and fridge for $75,000!! enough from me..LOL \Hank Hannigan 90SP36 80FC31 PS..I may end up storing both in Vegas while I go down under for 6 months......I got PARKING at our house in Melbourne for a big motohome if anyone wants to visit...email me anytime.. In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...> wrote: > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > > > I do believe that if a seller has confident claims about the > > condition of his product, he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 > > warranty' (seller pays second 5G's of a repair within the first year > > Greg, > > Nice idea, but it doesn't seem to work at all in this market. When I > was selling Stagecoach 2 years ago, not only did I price it about $5k > under any comparable units on the market then, but I also offered the > exact kind of open-ended second $$ warranty that you suggest - no > questions asked (specifying only that any work to be done by someone I > trust to know what he was doing - namely Ralph. I had worked the deal > with Ralph to pay him directly, up to the limit of the warranty > amount.) No one else was offering such a deal, but I was confident of > what I had. It had *absolutely* no effect on the sale. The market at > that time seemed like it was full of folks that thought they were > going to be able to get an excellent PT40 for $30K or less!! Ask > Harvey about those people! I think a lot of lookers today are looking > for the excellent shape FC for $10K! Those buyers don't understand > the product and confuse these things with trashed out 20 year old > plastic palaces. Those excellent $10K buses don't exist. If you want > a re-builder project, start with a shell and have at it. You'll be > busy and upside down in a re-builder forever. Stagecoach sold for > what I expected, to a guy that owned several other older buses and who > understood the value of what he was getting. > > Mike Bulriss > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" > San Antonio, TX > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" > > > > > I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job > > away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping > > over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first > > year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that > > if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product, > > he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second > > 5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no > > mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market > > value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want > > to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility > > and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep) > > > > Members are also buyers > > > > Gregory O'Connor > > 94PtRomolandCa > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence" > > > > > > > > Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem. > > > Bob Lawrence > > > 84 PT36 > > > Tacoma, Wa > > > > > > > > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that > > > goes back beyond 1990. > > > > MH > > > > From: Harvey Lawrence > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members > > > > > > > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue > > > > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem. > > > > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40 > > > > > > Members helping members - birdshill123 - 10-05-2006 14:00 This has been an interesting discussion. One thing that has not been mentioned is that the buyer determines the final price not the seller. I may think my unit is worth $60,000 because I have new tires, transmission ,etc. But if the potential buyers balk at this price and I get no offers then I am wrong. As BB owners we all know that there is more value in one of our units than an old Pace Arrow. But just what is that premium? If I reduce my price to $45,000 and there are still no offers then that price is also too high. If I get a few offers of say $38,000 to $40,000 then maybe that is the actual value. I am not suggesting that one should reduce the price after a few weeks or even months but a simple search of some of the BB sites will reveal units that have been for sale for a year or more. These are not houses they are depreciating assets. If a unit did not draw it's asking price a year ago it is unlikely it will get that price today. As a seller you have the option of not selling your unit at what you might consider a very low offer. Remember your price is an ASKING price. Sometimes it is better to let go and move on. I had a restored Clark Cortez many years ago. When it came time to sell I thought it was worth $10,000. I had spent more than that on upgrades and spare parts. I did not get one offer. Finally a fellow that restored antique aircraft came to see the unit. He loved it and offered $5000. I managed to get $6000 and it killed me but that was it's value. Bruce 1988 FC35 Members helping members - Gardner Yeaw - 10-05-2006 14:04 I agree that when I am fixing things on my FC I think of it as restoration, not repair. Each time I get an original system or device working it adds to my enjoyment of the experience. Oh, there might be a few choice words utterred during the process, but in the end I get closer to the goal of a fully restored Bluebird. I may never get there, but I'm having a lot of fun on the way. Without the books, diagrams, and this forum it would be a daunting task, but with the unselfish knowledge sharing and friendly atmosphere on this forum and others it becomes a very satisfying experience. Gardner 78FC33 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wilhelmus Schreurs > > Good point Leroy. > But the biggest thing that matters "Are you happy with the purchase you made" > Nothing else should really matter. > > Bill > 84FC325SB > Terrace, B.C. > > Leroy Eckert > > > For What It's Worth: I agree with O'Conner and Roger except I chose another angle when looking for my bus. I believe in the value approach. Value is the fair or proper equivalent in money and is determined at a point in time. When searching for a bus I looked at many coaches in my price range. Understanding coaches are depreciable assets I ignored the cost of normal maintenance. I did consider deferred maintenance and any upgrades that were made by previous owners. I knew when I walked up to the bus I now own that it was in fine shape. I bought it on the spot. > > Did I pay to much? The jury is still out. I paid more than I wanted to pay! Everything is relative, you get what you pay for. Two years of ownership has(knock on wood) supported my decision. Very few problems. The majority of heavy dollars have been spent on elective upgrades. > > Like all Bluebird owners, I'm not embarrassed to pull my rig right up next to a brand new $2,000,000 Prevost. He ain't laugh'n, I am. > > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40 > Niceville, FL > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rogerwwebb > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:19 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members > > > > > Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In > my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I > know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since > accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as > `restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an > old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of > pleasure and pride. > > We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I > always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a > BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying > to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high- end > coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91. > > Roger Webb > > Cedar Rapids, IA > > 91WLWB > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" > Terrace, B.C. Canada > > > --------------------------------- > All new Yahoo! Mail > --------------------------------- > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Members helping members - one_dusty_hoot - 10-05-2006 15:25 You are so right Bruce. Something else happens from overpricing also, I have heard it called "shop worn". It is the dimished value a product gets by being visible FOR SALE for such a long time. Many potential buyers saw it at a higher price, then when the price has dropped, they consider something wrong because no one has boughtit, hence no one wants it. Bob Janes, Greenville, SC --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123" > > This has been an interesting discussion. One thing that has not been > mentioned is that the buyer determines the final price not the seller. > I may think my unit is worth $60,000 because I have new tires, > transmission ,etc. But if the potential buyers balk at this price and I > get no offers then I am wrong. As BB owners we all know that there is > more value in one of our units than an old Pace Arrow. But just what is > that premium? If I reduce my price to $45,000 and there are still no > offers then that price is also too high. If I get a few offers of say > $38,000 to $40,000 then maybe that is the actual value. I am not > suggesting that one should reduce the price after a few weeks or even > months but a simple search of some of the BB sites will reveal units > that have been for sale for a year or more. These are not houses they > are depreciating assets. If a unit did not draw it's asking price a > year ago it is unlikely it will get that price today. As a seller you > have the option of not selling your unit at what you might consider a > very low offer. Remember your price is an ASKING price. Sometimes it is > better to let go and move on. I had a restored Clark Cortez many years > ago. When it came time to sell I thought it was worth $10,000. I had > spent more than that on upgrades and spare parts. I did not get one > offer. Finally a fellow that restored antique aircraft came to see the > unit. He loved it and offered $5000. I managed to get $6000 and it > killed me but that was it's value. > > > Bruce 1988 FC35 > |