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Losing coolant - Printable Version

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Losing coolant - Leroy Eckert - 10-23-2008 13:17

I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden wrote:
From: Joyce and Richard Hayden
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM




Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't heard of very many with anything above that.
Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR but on the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bluethunder@arcatapet.com"
To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant


David, I show no sign of splash, but the rate of leak is slow enough, and the rear mudflap solid enough, that it doesn't rule out leak. At the stop where I checked the level hot I also looked underneath for any sign of loss (engine was running) and there was none. Even so, I think your idea of getting a pressurizer for testing is the best plan moving forward.

My cap is a 13-lb cap, and is secure. I agree that last click is hard - takes two hands for me.

It has been driven 6000 miles since the upper gate valves were replaced. There was about 1 gallon replaced in the first hundred miles or so. Heater has been used multiple times.

Transmission fluid level is normal/slightly low, and is clear. I would not expect either if it had 5 quarts of coolant in it.

On 10/23/2008 at 12:29 PM David Brady wrote:

>Don,
>
>Does your toad show any signs of splash? Go to Autozone and rent
>a radiator pressurizer. Pump her up to the pressure designated on your
>radiator cap, and check all the hoses/fittings for leaks. Probably just
>a loose hose clamp
>
>David Brady
>'02 LXi, NC
>
>Don Bradner wrote:
>>
>> I've never had much coolant loss (except when dealing with replacing
>> gate valves), so I tend to check rather sporadically. A couple of days
>> ago I checked and it was not visible in the sight glass. Took roughly
>> one gallon to bring it back to the top of the glass.
>>
>> This was approximately 480 miles since the last check (three separate
>> runs with several days between each).
>>
>> I checked about 40 miles later (hot) and it was full. Checked it just
>> now, cold, and it was not visible. Took a bit over a quart to bring it
>> to the top. This was about 110 miles since the previous fill.
>>
>> My oil usage appears about normal, 5 quarts on this trip over 4300
>> miles. I would expect less if it was going into the oil (unless it
>> boils off??)
>>
>> I'm parked on clean concrete, and there are no signs of any fluids
>> underneath (It's been cool enough that the air conditioner has not
>> been used, so not even condensate).
>>
>> Any thoughts on what to look at/for?
>>
>> Don Bradner
>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> Posting today by satellite from Hilton Head, South Carolina
>> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps. com/user2. cfm?user= 1
>>
>>
>> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>>
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date:
>10/9/2008 12:00 AM
>>



Losing coolant - Don Bradner - 10-23-2008 14:05

The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have no idea when
this one was changed to a 13 lb.

There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947 where Curt
Sprenger said:

"Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all
series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control cap.
My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are others
using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about 185
to 195."

That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc. but besides you
(Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in that thread that the shop
that did his radiator replaced with a 15.

I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because the 7 lb, as it
loses strength, tends to let more slop out.

If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above 230 degrees
is into temperatures where the engine would be in real trouble anyway.
Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to 250, but does that really
matter?

I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an easy "maybe fix",
and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.

On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>Royale Conversion
>
>--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden wrote:
>From: Joyce and Richard Hayden
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
>
>Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling
>system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't heard
>of very many with anything above that.
>
>Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR but on
>the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.

Losing coolant - Rob Robinson - 10-23-2008 14:07

My 94 is a 7lb cap


2008/10/23 Don Bradner <"bluethunder@arcatapet.com">



The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.

There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947 where Curt Sprenger said:


"Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all
series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control cap.
My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are others

using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about 185
to 195."

That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc. but besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.


I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.

If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above 230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to 250, but does that really matter?


I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an easy "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.

On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.

>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>Royale Conversion
>
>--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com"> wrote:

>From: Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com">
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
>To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"

>Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
>
>Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling
>system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't heard
>of very many with anything above that.

>
>Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR but on
>the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.



--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

Losing coolant - Leroy Eckert - 10-23-2008 14:55

I remember that thread also Don. I was feeling my way through things then and still do. lol
I left mine as is because I have the attitude, if it's working don't change it. Someone must have had a puking issue early on in my coach???possibly although nothing in the my files.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Don Bradner wrote:
From: Don Bradner
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 10:05 PM



The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.



There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947 where Curt Sprenger said:



"Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all

series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control cap.

My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are others

using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about 185

to 195."



That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc. but besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.



I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.



If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above 230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to 250, but does that really matter?



I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an easy "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.



On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:



>I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.

>Leroy Eckert

>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors

>Dahlonega, GA

>Royale Conversion

>

>--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com"> wrote:

>From: Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com">

>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant

>To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"

>Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM

>

>Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling

>system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't heard

>of very many with anything above that.

>

>Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR but on

>the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.





Losing coolant - Gregory OConnor - 10-23-2008 15:20

There are two springs in the cap a puke and a suck. when the rad
fluid cools it creates a vacumn and sucks the puked fluid out of
the p tank and back into the system. Could be the return path
(suck) is screwed and letting air enter on the path of least r
theory some place. then when it pukes again the tank is overfilled.
I think the suck is more of a check valve than a presssure thing????

I see your point about boil and 250 degree but I bet lots'a water up
against the block gets close to 250 and sees greater expansion. we
read 195 relative temp at a place remote to the heated area being
cooled.
I wonder if seven is the way to go but the puke tank is not sized
properly considering the large volumn of fluid to displace in the
Wanderlodge application.

One of those places where fluid level wont prove a shutdown. if you
are running the bus hot and pucking fluid in the tank that holds the
level sender. may have been one of Rons lost chances for early shut
down.

Greg94ptCa
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have
no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.
>
> There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947
where Curt Sprenger said:
>
> "Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all
> series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control
cap.
> My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are
others
> using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about
185
> to 195."
>
> That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc.
but besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in
that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.
>
> I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because
the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.
>
> If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above
230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real
trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to
250, but does that really matter?
>
> I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an
easy "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.
>
> On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.
> >Leroy Eckert
> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> >Dahlonega, GA
> >Royale Conversion
> >
> >--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden
wrote:
> >From: Joyce and Richard Hayden
> >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
> >
> >Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your
cooling
> >system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't
heard
> >of very many with anything above that.
> >
> >Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR
but on
> >the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.
>

Losing coolant - Don Bradner - 10-23-2008 15:59

I have trouble reconciling that with what I've seen - 15000 miles with virtually
no coolant addition required (except the very short period after I worked on the
heating system), then 550 miles with 5 quarts used. The 15000 included a lot of
nights colder than anything I've experienced in the past couple of weeks.

I see these possiblities:

unlikely: flowing into the crankcase
unlikely: flowing into the transmission
unlikely: burped some long-standing air pocket
possible: flowing into the cylinders and going out the exhaust
higher possible: hose leak under pressure
higher possible: pressure cap bad

The last one is easy to preemptively fix, and if I still lose fluid it is on to
the pressure tester you recommended. After that?

If I replace the cap and then lose no fluid I will assume either 3 or 6 was
correct, and I won't care which it was.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by satellite from Hilton Head, South Carolina
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

On 10/23/2008 at 11:36 PM David Brady wrote:

>Don,
>
>At some point I think you mentioned pre-warming your engine
>to 100 deg F prior to start, otherwise you get tons of smoke
>out the exhaust. Randy mentioned that the 2-stroke diesels
>will leak coolant into the cylinders when cold due to o-ring
>shrinkage on the liners. Maybe this is what your seeing.

Losing coolant - David Brady - 10-23-2008 16:36


Don,



At some point I think you mentioned pre-warming your engine

to 100 deg F prior to start, otherwise you get tons of smoke

out the exhaust. Randy mentioned that the 2-stroke diesels

will leak coolant into the cylinders when cold due to o-ring

shrinkage on the liners. Maybe this is what your seeing.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Gregory OConnor wrote:


There are two springs in the cap a puke and a suck. when the rad

fluid cools it creates a vacumn and sucks the puked fluid out of

the p tank and back into the system. Could be the return path

(suck) is screwed and letting air enter on the path of least r

theory some place. then when it pukes again the tank is overfilled.

I think the suck is more of a check valve than a presssure thing????



I see your point about boil and 250 degree but I bet lots'a water up

against the block gets close to 250 and sees greater expansion. we

read 195 relative temp at a place remote to the heated area being

cooled.

I wonder if seven is the way to go but the puke tank is not sized

properly considering the large volumn of fluid to displace in the

Wanderlodge application.



One of those places where fluid level wont prove a shutdown. if you

are running the bus hot and pucking fluid in the tank that holds the

level sender. may have been one of Rons lost chances for early shut

down.



Greg94ptCa

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
"Don Bradner"

...> wrote:

>

> The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have

no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.

>

> There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947

where Curt Sprenger said:

>

> "Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all

> series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control

cap.

> My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are

others

> using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about


185

> to 195."

>

> That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc.

but besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in

that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.

>

> I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because

the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.

>

> If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above


230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real

trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to

250, but does that really matter?

>

> I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an

easy "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.

>

> On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>

> >I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.

> >Leroy Eckert

> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors

> >Dahlonega, GA

> >Royale Conversion

> >

> >--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden .>


wrote:

> >From: Joyce and Richard Hayden .>

> >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant

> >To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"

> >Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM

> >

> >Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your

cooling

> >system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I
haven't

heard

> >of very many with anything above that.

> >

> >Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford,
OR

but on

> >the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.

>





Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM


Losing coolant - Kurt Horvath - 10-23-2008 16:39




Curious, I had to go look at the radiator cap on Indulgance.



7LBS. and old.



Any recommendations?



No know problem with it.



In my quest for a SS exhaust I've discovered. Stainless ain't cheep!



Kurt Horvath



95 PT 42



10AC








--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" wrote:
>
> I have trouble reconciling that with what I've seen - 15000 miles with virtually no coolant addition required (except the very short period after I worked on the heating system), then 550 miles with 5 quarts used. The 15000 included a lot of nights colder than anything I've experienced in the past couple of weeks.
>
> I see these possiblities:
>
> unlikely: flowing into the crankcase
> unlikely: flowing into the transmission
> unlikely: burped some long-standing air pocket
> possible: flowing into the cylinders and going out the exhaust
> higher possible: hose leak under pressure
> higher possible: pressure cap bad
>
> The last one is easy to preemptively fix, and if I still lose fluid it is on to the pressure tester you recommended. After that?
>
> If I replace the cap and then lose no fluid I will assume either 3 or 6 was correct, and I won't care which it was.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting today by satellite from Hilton Head, South Carolina
> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
>
> On 10/23/2008 at 11:36 PM David Brady wrote:
>
> >Don,
> >
> >At some point I think you mentioned pre-warming your engine
> >to 100 deg F prior to start, otherwise you get tons of smoke
> >out the exhaust. Randy mentioned that the 2-stroke diesels
> >will leak coolant into the cylinders when cold due to o-ring
> >shrinkage on the liners. Maybe this is what your seeing.
>



Losing coolant - patticake592000 - 10-24-2008 01:18

Mine is 7lb., old, but pressure tested good. Only leaks are temp
related(outside temp), and coming from clamps. I installed new rad
last year. No lose after clamp tighting. Remember there is a torque
rating on tighting the clamps and some clamps are made offshore. That
throws the
torque rating out the window.

Steve Gureasko
90WBWL40 Jus Chillin
Ponchatoula, La. currently in chilly Eureka Springs Ark.

Losing coolant - Pete Masterson - 10-24-2008 06:57

I suspect that 13-15 psi caps are more common. A 7 psi cap might
actually prove to be hard to find. (I've never had a vehicle with
such a low pressure cap, except for a Model A Ford (with original
engine) I had years ago... that I don't think was pressurized at all.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Max Meadows, VA



On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Don Bradner wrote:

> The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have
> no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.
>
> There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947
> where Curt Sprenger said:
>
> "Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all
> series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control cap.
> My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are others
> using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about 185
> to 195."
>
> That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc. but
> besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in
> that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.
>
> I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because
> the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.
>
> If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above
> 230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real
> trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to
> 250, but does that really matter?
>
> I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an easy
> "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.
>
> On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
>> I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.
>> Leroy Eckert
>> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>> Dahlonega, GA
>> Royale Conversion
>>
>> --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden
>> wrote:
>> From: Joyce and Richard Hayden
>> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
>> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
>>
>> Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling
>> system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't
>> heard
>> of very many with anything above that.
>>
>> Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR
>> but on
>> the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>