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Engine Swap - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Engine Swap (/showthread.php?tid=2903) |
Engine Swap - rwoodysurplus - 12-16-2008 16:14 yes sir.. we gotta try it for fun! never say never they tell me! too easy to change if we are wrong. Thanks! for putting the thinking cap on to show me the reason why? --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > On 12/17/2008 at 3:32 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: > > >yes you are right--GOOD CATCH~! > > > >going to try that ...pushers suck air from the side > > > >why not the rear???? > > Question: "why not the rear????" > > based on assumption: "pushers suck air from the side" > > Have you considered the (likely) possibility that the assumption is wrong? At least in terms of meaningful airflow? > > What would that do to your question? > > Don Bradner > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > Posting today by aircard from Needles, California > My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1 > Engine Swap - Don Bradner - 12-16-2008 16:28 I'm not sure if that last question mark means you want me to explain why I said it is likely that the assumption is wrong, or something else. Assuming the former, my basis is empirical - it can easily be shown that a typical pusher with side-mounted radiator will quickly overheat if there is not a very large booster fan to suck lots of air in. Any natural flow is way too weak. In my case, just going down a flat road with the fan idling at 600RPM I see about 1 degree of temperature rise per 5 seconds until the fan kicks into high speed. On 12/17/2008 at 4:14 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: >yes sir.. > >we gotta try it for fun! > >never say never they tell me! > >too easy to change if we are wrong. > >Thanks! for putting the thinking cap on to show me the reason why? > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > >> >> On 12/17/2008 at 3:32 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: >> >> >yes you are right--GOOD CATCH~! >> > >> >going to try that ...pushers suck air from the side >> > >> >why not the rear???? >> >> Question: "why not the rear????" >> >> based on assumption: "pushers suck air from the side" >> >> Have you considered the (likely) possibility that the assumption is >wrong? At least in terms of meaningful airflow? >> >> What would that do to your question? >> >> Don Bradner >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" >> Posting today by aircard from Needles, California >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1 >> > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Engine Swap - rwoodysurplus - 12-16-2008 16:32 I totaly agree don but i dont have room for a side rad--so I have to run it in the rear of the coach. We will build a tight fan shroud and see the results. going to give it a shot.... thanks! --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > I'm not sure if that last question mark means you want me to explain why I said it is likely that the assumption is wrong, or something else. > > Assuming the former, my basis is empirical - it can easily be shown that a typical pusher with side-mounted radiator will quickly overheat if there is not a very large booster fan to suck lots of air in. Any natural flow is way too weak. In my case, just going down a flat road with the fan idling at 600RPM I see about 1 degree of temperature rise per 5 seconds until the fan kicks into high speed. > > On 12/17/2008 at 4:14 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: > > >yes sir.. > > > >we gotta try it for fun! > > > >never say never they tell me! > > > >too easy to change if we are wrong. > > > >Thanks! for putting the thinking cap on to show me the reason why? > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > > >> > >> On 12/17/2008 at 3:32 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: > >> > >> >yes you are right--GOOD CATCH~! > >> > > >> >going to try that ...pushers suck air from the side > >> > > >> >why not the rear???? > >> > >> Question: "why not the rear????" > >> > >> based on assumption: "pushers suck air from the side" > >> > >> Have you considered the (likely) possibility that the assumption is > >wrong? At least in terms of meaningful airflow? > >> > >> What would that do to your question? > >> > >> Don Bradner > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > >> Posting today by aircard from Needles, California > >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1 > >> > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Engine Swap - timvasqz - 12-16-2008 17:19 what ever you do, you need a designed air path. conventional flow like in a fc have the fan sucking air in thru the radiator then over the engine as a secondary cooling. if you suck air in over the engine to cool the radiator that air is first heated by the hot engine it passes. pluss the cfm volumn must overcome the obsticals in the way. If you suck it in from one side then blow it out the back you leave 1/2 the engine without any other cooling than water jacket. blowing out both side puts the hot air back at the radiator. I dont think you can blow it out the bottom????? then you have the design of the charge air cooler to consider, wonder if it was intended to get the coldest air seeing that in conventional design, it is first to pass air (thats usuly me in big crowds) running cooler than 'need to be' has nothing to do with 'running better'. if it works now, it works LeroyE once pointed out that there may be some issue or undocument value of running with and without a mudflap. my thinking is without a flap, the tranny and tires would stay cooler??????? GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg 94ptCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "rwoodysurplus" > > I totaly agree don > > > but i dont have room for a side rad--so I have to run it in the rear > of the coach. We will build a tight fan shroud and see the results. > > going to give it a shot.... > > thanks! > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > > > > I'm not sure if that last question mark means you want me to explain > why I said it is likely that the assumption is wrong, or something else. > > > > Assuming the former, my basis is empirical - it can easily be shown > that a typical pusher with side-mounted radiator will quickly overheat > if there is not a very large booster fan to suck lots of air in. Any > natural flow is way too weak. In my case, just going down a flat road > with the fan idling at 600RPM I see about 1 degree of temperature rise > per 5 seconds until the fan kicks into high speed. > > > > On 12/17/2008 at 4:14 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: > > > > >yes sir.. > > > > > >we gotta try it for fun! > > > > > >never say never they tell me! > > > > > >too easy to change if we are wrong. > > > > > >Thanks! for putting the thinking cap on to show me the reason why? > > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > > > > >> > > >> On 12/17/2008 at 3:32 AM rwoodysurplus wrote: > > >> > > >> >yes you are right--GOOD CATCH~! > > >> > > > >> >going to try that ...pushers suck air from the side > > >> > > > >> >why not the rear???? > > >> > > >> Question: "why not the rear????" > > >> > > >> based on assumption: "pushers suck air from the side" > > >> > > >> Have you considered the (likely) possibility that the assumption is > > >wrong? At least in terms of meaningful airflow? > > >> > > >> What would that do to your question? > > >> > > >> Don Bradner > > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > > >> Posting today by aircard from Needles, California > > >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Engine Swap - birdshill123 - 12-17-2008 03:33 Re: Engine swap Being as we are all consultants on this amazing swap I will add my 2 cents worth. Rear rads do work as evedenced by the FC Freightliners. Most have the fan running constantly. There are aftermarket fans that cycle. Rear rads will plug up with dirt easily. Make sure you can easily get at the rad and CAC. Normally you need enough space between the 2 to get some sort of low pressure pipe with a nozzle to flush the dirt out of the rad. Run the slobber tube beyond the rad. Fabulous swap!!!! Bruce 1988FC Engine Swap - Don Bradner - 12-17-2008 03:52 No argument that rear radiators work, but they work by pushing the air out, not by pulling in. If I understood Woody's long aerodynamic post he appeared to be trying to find a way to justify keeping the original front-engine fan in place, and getting air pulled in from the back. On 12/17/2008 at 3:29 PM birdshill123 wrote: >Being as we are all consultants on this amazing swap I will add my 2 >cents worth. Rear rads do work as eveidenced by the FC Freightliners. >Most have the fan running constantly. There are aftermarket fans that >cycle. Rear rads will plug up with dirt easily. make sure you can >easily get at the rad and CAC. Normally you need enough space between >the 2 to get some sort of low pressure pipe with a nozzle to flush the >dirt out of the rad. Fabulous swap!!!! > > >Bruce >1988FC Engine Swap - Rob Robinson - 12-17-2008 05:31 Things are progressing quickly with Randy and Woody's swap. Today they are installing the rad and intercooler. Woody has most of the electrics done,and after lunch they will be building the intercooler tubes and the exhaust system. They have been too busy for pics, but Woody will take afew this afternoon. Quote "we may just start her up today!" End Quote. Engine Swap - Michael Day - 12-17-2008 09:49 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > No argument that rear radiators work, but they work by pushing the air out, not by pulling in. If I understood Woody's long aerodynamic post he appeared to be trying to find a way to justify keeping the original front-engine fan in place, and getting air pulled in from the back. > Don is correct. My 1992 Newell has a rear radiator with a fan pushing air through the radiator and out the rear. The fan is directly run off the engine so it moves air as long as the engine is running. You really get a blast of air out the rear of the coach with the 8V92 on fast idle. Whether the majority of the air being pushed through the radiators by the fan is coming through the side engine vents or from the air flow under the coach, I don't know. I agree that the rear radiator does pick up more dirt and oil than a side-radiator. The side radiator on Don's Wanderlodge does allow better cooling. I have to back out of the throttle before he does on long steep hills due to my engine temperature rising faster than his as monitored by VMSpc on both of our coaches. As always, thanks for allowing me to lurk and absorb knowledge on the maintenance of Wanderlodges. Michael Day 1992 Newell (SOB) 8V92, Allison HT-740 Engine Swap - Gardner Yeaw - 12-17-2008 10:54 Woody, I would say what ever the 3208 did would be the right way. I think you should blow it out the rear. Gardner 83FC35 (still broken) --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Day" <michaeldday@...> wrote: > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > > > > No argument that rear radiators work, but they work by pushing the > air out, not by pulling in. If I understood Woody's long aerodynamic > post he appeared to be trying to find a way to justify keeping the > original front-engine fan in place, and getting air pulled in from the > back. > > > Don is correct. My 1992 Newell has a rear radiator with a fan pushing > air through the radiator and out the rear. The fan is directly run > off the engine so it moves air as long as the engine is running. You > really get a blast of air out the rear of the coach with the 8V92 on > fast idle. Whether the majority of the air being pushed through the > radiators by the fan is coming through the side engine vents or from > the air flow under the coach, I don't know. > > I agree that the rear radiator does pick up more dirt and oil than a > side-radiator. The side radiator on Don's Wanderlodge does allow > better cooling. I have to back out of the throttle before he does on > long steep hills due to my engine temperature rising faster than his > as monitored by VMSpc on both of our coaches. > > As always, thanks for allowing me to lurk and absorb knowledge on the > maintenance of Wanderlodges. > > Michael Day > 1992 Newell (SOB) > 8V92, Allison HT-740 > Engine Swap - timvasqz - 12-17-2008 11:19 I think Woodie has ChargeAirCooler on his swap. wonder how it is done with the series 60 Newell with a CAC? How do they stack the rads?? the 8v92 has not a CAC. Could be that it doesnt matter??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_air_cooler I dont like a fan clutching on at high speeds. in the Wanderlodge pushers the fan is hydrolic and not an issue but off the engine if it clutches on at 2,800 rpm I think that is where most damage is done. I replace them with two speed fans so as to not over cool an engine by running it all the time or clutching up at full speed/load. Woodie you might check out http://www.kit-masters.com/downloads/2-Speed_online.pdf about $1,200. on a CumminsN14/'92FordAeromax Bruce, slobber (byproduct) out the slobberTube(dynamicPath) is a two stroke thing. the slobber off a fourstroke is crap passing the crank case vent system. a major prob in areas of high humidity and overfilled oilpans. if you let the engine get to operating temp the crankcase vent should not spit much. two strokes have both a crankcase vent and a slobertube for the valves. One prob with reengineereing the vents or tubes is they dont drain well then block up and prove other issues. GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg 94ptCa --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Day" <michaeldday@...> wrote: > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" > > > > > No argument that rear radiators work, but they work by pushing the > air out, not by pulling in. If I understood Woody's long aerodynamic > post he appeared to be trying to find a way to justify keeping the > original front-engine fan in place, and getting air pulled in from the > back. > > > Don is correct. My 1992 Newell has a rear radiator with a fan pushing > air through the radiator and out the rear. The fan is directly run > off the engine so it moves air as long as the engine is running. You > really get a blast of air out the rear of the coach with the 8V92 on > fast idle. Whether the majority of the air being pushed through the > radiators by the fan is coming through the side engine vents or from > the air flow under the coach, I don't know. > > I agree that the rear radiator does pick up more dirt and oil than a > side-radiator. The side radiator on Don's Wanderlodge does allow > better cooling. I have to back out of the throttle before he does on > long steep hills due to my engine temperature rising faster than his > as monitored by VMSpc on both of our coaches. > > As always, thanks for allowing me to lurk and absorb knowledge on the > maintenance of Wanderlodges. > > Michael Day > 1992 Newell (SOB) > 8V92, Allison HT-740 > |