+- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com)
+-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61)
+--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63)
+--- Thread: Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird (/showthread.php?tid=5198)
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:01
Brad,
Man am I glad you jogged my memory about that bus fire during the Houston evac.
I remember seeing that thing burn too. What a tradgedy.
Yes, you are right about a fire on a coach being a serious matter. I was just
thinking about what I would do if I was in the bedroom and a fire broke out in
the galley. There is no door to get out. I tried the windows in the bedroom
and you would have to have a pry bar to get them open. I don't think they have
ever been open so they are stiff as hell. Going to have to lube them to get them
moving again. A little WD-40 will do wonders. I notice too that the window
latches are very difficult to release. One of the windows I had to go get a
screw driver to get the latch to release. All of the windows are stiff like
that. Is that a usual thing on these Blue Birds?
Thanks again Brad.
My best regards,
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
brad barton <bbartonwx@...> wrote:
Ron,
One more ramble and I'll quit.
Marty is right about heat. A dragging brake on a tour bus evacuating nursing
home patients from Hurricane Rita in Houston, blew out one time on I-45. The
driver didn't understand English, so he continued on after the tire was changed.
The brake heated up again even in stop and go traffic. The wheel became red hot
and caught the rear of the bus on fire. The driver failed to notice until
portable oxygen tanks used by the patients began exploding. The bus turned into
a crematorium for 24 of those patients. I'll never forget watching the bus
burning up live on TV. Also, I left my magnetic retarder on by mistake in
Flagstaff and nearly caught my 84 Bird on fire. I burned through the air line
that operated the driver's seat slide. Imagine smoke coming from under your
coach and you're struggling to get to the extinguisher with your seat next to
the doghouse. Fire on a motorcoach is almost as serious as fire on board an
airplane. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@...: martingregg598@...: Tue, 26
Jun 2007 00:32:18 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with
1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
Ron, if you have a Allison HT-755 five speed with a retarder, I have know
advice, if you have a 1995-42' you should have a Allison HD-4060 and a DD series
60 with a 3 position Jacobs engine brake. Jacobs's brakes close the valves and
turn the cylinder into a compressor creating braking horsepower, each position
adds more cylinders. I haven't driven a 95 in the mountains but I have driven
over a lot of the passes in the Cascades, Montana, Idaho and so on, but I can't
imagine that if your in the right gear at the right RPM that the engine brake
won't hold it back. For me with a less effective Pac Brake, it is 4th gear at 50
mph at about 2400 rpm's on a 6% or so, on a steeper grade it's 3 gear at 35-40
mph and I almost never have to use my air brakes. If I am in 4th and it starts
to run away, faster that I like, I use the brakes to get the coach down to the
speed that I can select the next lower gear. If the Jacobs brake doesn't hold
you back, maybe there is something wrong
with the Jacobs brake? As for the "Drum type" air brakes, if you have been on
the road for a time and the ambient temp. is hot, and If you ride the brakes for
a long period of time the drum can expand away from the shoe and you lose your
brakes. With some real bad luck you could heat the wheel up so hot that it heats
the tire up and blowout.Marty95 BMC 37Kennewick Wa
__________________________________________________________
Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search Club.
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:03
Tom,
Where can you get each tire weighed? It should be a total weight of 42,000 lbs
right now since it is empty. I don't have anything in it yet. Don't want to put
stuff into it until I get all the systems running properly.
Thanks for the info, Tom.
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
Tom McCarthy
42,000 is empty; no liqiuds, tools, dishes, water, pans , people,
etc. Comfortably provisioned, you should be over 45,000 and you need
to be under 48,900, the max. weight. Get the coach weighed at each
tire to see how it is balanced and what your actual weight is.
Tom McCarthy
95 PT42
Poway, CA
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ron Thompson
wrote:
>
> I don't know about the new ones but mine is a 1995 and the body tag
says 42,000 lbs. My guess would be that it is probably heavier than
the new ones. They are taking weight out of them to cut the cost of
production.
>
> Just my thoughts./
>
> Regards,
> Ron Thompson
>
> erniecarpet@... wrote: Ron, I may
be wrong but don't the newer coaches weigh more then the 42,000
> pounds?
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Livingston, Mt
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:11
Hey Pete, you sound like an expert to me. I appreciate your in depth cretique.
I print everything you write.
I have been over the mountains at Berthoud pass when I was a kid but that was
the only time. I remember my Grandmother was driving since my Grandfather never
learned to drive and she was riding those brakes and had the manual transmission
down it 1st gear and both hands on the steering wheel with white nuckles. It
impressed me enough that I still remember the quietness in the car when it was
usually mayhem. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when we got down on level
ground again. And that pass is not that bad.
Thanks Pet and safe driving. Hope your trip home is without incident.
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
Pete Masterson
expert, but I've crossed the Rockies in southern Wyoming
twice, I've done the Raton pass in southern Colorado twice, I've gone
up and back down Colorado I-70 to near Evergreen CO, and I've crossed
the Sierras into California on I-80. Plus I've traveled through a
fair number of lesser mountains in Oregon, Idaho, and California. So
I've seen a few mountains.
Basically, the technique is to watch the temperatures, especially the
oil temp when you're climbing. Higher revs = cooler engine, so slow
down and shift down, as necessary. Take it easy.
Coming down, use the jake brake (it's actually integrated into the
automatic transmission, so when it's enabled, it 'kicks in' as
needed. The engine computer "watches" the revs to avoid over-reving
but you still need to watch that you don't exceed 2400 RPM while
exhaust (Jake) brake is operating and 2100 RPM while under power. In
general, come down at moderate speed. When you slow down with the
service brakes, slow to 5 mph or more _below_ your target speed, then
let the coach gradually pick up speed (still using the jake brake).
The coach has plenty of service brake capacity to control the
vehicle ... but you do need to pay attention an not run low on air.
Don't "ride" the brakes as that will heat them up and not really help
maintain control.
It is said that you should descend at the same speed that you climb
at ... but the reality is somewhat different. For example, from Reno
to Donner Pass on I-80 you climb about 3500 feet in 10 miles or so.
Then from Donner Pass to Roseville, you descend nearly 7000 feet in
40 miles. So, the grades are quite different and your speeds will not
be "the same"... Nevertheless, "keep it moderate" is a wise approach.
If road-side signs suggest a curve be taken at 40 mph -- take it to
heart. It's good advice. Be sure to get to 40 or slower for that
curve. (For years, I always wondered just who they were thinking of
with the curve-speed advisories. Now I know....)
Note: Do not use the jake brake under poor traction conditions (such
as snow or wet pavement) as it can lead to control/skidding problems.
Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Harrisburg Oregon
On Jun 25, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:
> This is a question that lots of people might want to explore. Would
> someone with a lot of experience driving a big rig in the mountains
> please write up a good descriptive instruction for mountain driving.
>
> I have never driven in the big mountains with a normal vehicle much
> less a 42,000 lb motor coach. I am planning a trip through the
> mountains maybe this year but definitely next year from Texas through
> the Rockies and on up to Alaska. It would sure be helpful to have
> some pointers from an expert.
>
> Best regards,
> Ron Thompson
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:17
This is good info Pete, I suppose it will take some operation to develop a feel
for what position the Jake ought to be in.
Thanks again.
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
Pete Masterson
"jake brake" on the '95 with the Series 60 engine is a true
"exhaust" brake and it generates no excess heat energy that must be
handled. It is not a magnetic brake like those used on earlier 'birds.
The brake system is integrated with the automatic transmission. You
flip the "enable" switch on and set the "intensity" switch to low,
medium, or high. When you take your foot of the accelerator pedal,
the jake kicks in. The transmission will shift down (if within a safe
RPM range) to the next lower gear to strengthen the braking effect,
depending on the position of the low/med/high switch. If you then
press on the accelerator pedal, the jake shuts off and (after a brief
delay) the transmission will up-shift to ensure that the RPM will be
in the safe range.
I note that on my coach, someone has wired-out the medium setting so
that I have the choice of either high or low, but I'm usually able to
find a balance on most grades that's satisfactory.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Jun 25, 2007, at 3:43 PM, brad barton wrote:
> <snip> If you have a magnetic retarder, be aware that it will build
> up considerable heat if used for several minutes..so downshift to
> help it out. I don't think your Jake brake or Pac brake is limited
> that way but a diesel mechanic can be more specific. <snip>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:18
Pete,
You guys know more about the weight than I do at this point, but I am catching
up fast.
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
Pete Masterson
digging out my blue box, The maximum allowed GVW of the '95
is around 52,000 lbs. The approximate "curb" weight is around 42,000
lbs. (That may or may not count water and holding tanks -- I'd have
to dig out the book to be certain.) As typically loaded, I'd expect
that most would weigh about 46-48,000 lbs.
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Jun 25, 2007, at 4:12 PM, erniecarpet@... wrote:
> Ron, I may be wrong but don't the newer coaches weigh more then the
> 42,000
> pounds?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:33
Obviously, Pete, you have been studying these systems for awhile. I am like
that too. I like to know everything I can so that I am at least knowledgeable
enough to keep from gettin hosed by an unscrupulous mechanic.
Thanks for all your indepth analysis. You have been a great help is dispelling
some of my fears on this motor coach.
Regrds,
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
Pete Masterson
Jake Brake or Jacob Brake is a particular brand of engine brake
manufactured and sold by Jacobs Vehicle Systems, Inc. While the term
Jake Brake technically only describes Jake Brake brand engine brakes,
it has become a genericized trademark and is often used to refer to
engine brakes or compression release engine brakes in general,
especially on large vehicles or heavy equipment. See Wikipedia for a
full entry at:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_brake>
The magnetic retarder used on some earlier BBs is similar to the
technology used for "dynamic braking" on diesel-electric railroad
locomotives. The diesel-electric locomotive is actually a diesel
generator (up to 5000 HP) that powers electric motors to drive the
engine. On down grades, the motors are electrically switched to
become generators, and the power produced is directed to very heavy
duty grids and discarded as heat. Realize that these things produce
600 amps at 600 volts and that's a _lot_ of heat! (Great for toasting
marshmallows.)
Pete Masterson
aeonix1@...
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
El Sobrante, CA
On Jun 25, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:
> My BB has an engine retarder. I have no idea what that is
> exactly. I assume it is using the compression of the engine to
> hold back the transmission which will hold back the BB
>
> What is a Jake Brake?
>
<snip>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Leroy Eckert - 06-26-2007 00:34
My windows in the bedroom are the same way. I have lubed the track with limited
success. I keep a small sledge hammer in the bedroom jic.
I posted back in April a potential major source for fire. I have removed the
source from my bus. The freeze heaters on my coach burned a hole in the water
pipe under the night stand while in the infield at Talladega. The event did not
trip the circuit breaker. Flooded the bus also. I am glad the water was in the
line and the pump was on! Or??? The reason for the failure was two of the wires
were touching when they failed. That is not allowed per specifications. I still
do not know why they operated at 85 degrees. In any event, they are gone now.
With hydronic heat, there is no real reason to have them.
It is not easy to do and inspection of these wires as they are encased in
insulation covering the water pipes. However, if two of these wires are crossed
or get together from movement over the years the result is inevitable.
Kinda off the original subject but very important.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Thompson
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb.
Blue Bird
Brad,
Man am I glad you jogged my memory about that bus fire during the Houston
evac. I remember seeing that thing burn too. What a tradgedy.
Yes, you are right about a fire on a coach being a serious matter. I was just
thinking about what I would do if I was in the bedroom and a fire broke out in
the galley. There is no door to get out. I tried the windows in the bedroom and
you would have to have a pry bar to get them open. I don't think they have ever
been open so they are stiff as hell. Going to have to lube them to get them
moving again. A little WD-40 will do wonders. I notice too that the window
latches are very difficult to release. One of the windows I had to go get a
screw driver to get the latch to release. All of the windows are stiff like
that. Is that a usual thing on these Blue Birds?
Thanks again Brad.
My best regards,
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
brad barton <bbartonwx@...> wrote:
Ron,
One more ramble and I'll quit.
Marty is right about heat. A dragging brake on a tour bus evacuating nursing
home patients from Hurricane Rita in Houston, blew out one time on I-45. The
driver didn't understand English, so he continued on after the tire was changed.
The brake heated up again even in stop and go traffic. The wheel became red hot
and caught the rear of the bus on fire. The driver failed to notice until
portable oxygen tanks used by the patients began exploding. The bus turned into
a crematorium for 24 of those patients. I'll never forget watching the bus
burning up live on TV. Also, I left my magnetic retarder on by mistake in
Flagstaff and nearly caught my 84 Bird on fire. I burned through the air line
that operated the driver's seat slide. Imagine smoke coming from under your
coach and you're struggling to get to the extinguisher with your seat next to
the doghouse. Fire on a motorcoach is almost as serious as fire on board an
airplane. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@...: martingregg598@...: Tue, 26
Jun 2007 00:32:18 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with
1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
Ron, if you have a Allison HT-755 five speed with a retarder, I have know
advice, if you have a 1995-42' you should have a Allison HD-4060 and a DD series
60 with a 3 position Jacobs engine brake. Jacobs's brakes close the valves and
turn the cylinder into a compressor creating braking horsepower, each position
adds more cylinders. I haven't driven a 95 in the mountains but I have driven
over a lot of the passes in the Cascades, Montana, Idaho and so on, but I can't
imagine that if your in the right gear at the right RPM that the engine brake
won't hold it back. For me with a less effective Pac Brake, it is 4th gear at 50
mph at about 2400 rpm's on a 6% or so, on a steeper grade it's 3 gear at 35-40
mph and I almost never have to use my air brakes. If I am in 4th and it starts
to run away, faster that I like, I use the brakes to get the coach down to the
speed that I can select the next lower gear. If the Jacobs brake doesn't hold
you back, maybe there is something wrong
with the Jacobs brake? As for the "Drum type" air brakes, if you have been on
the road for a time and the ambient temp. is hot, and If you ride the brakes for
a long period of time the drum can expand away from the shoe and you lose your
brakes. With some real bad luck you could heat the wheel up so hot that it heats
the tire up and blowout.Marty95 BMC 37Kennewick Wa
__________________________________________________________
Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search Club.
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Stephen Birtles - 06-26-2007 00:54
Lube tracks with paraffin wax a small amount goes a long way
If you really worried about escaping from the bedroom through the window
a spring loaded center punch will make the window disappear with one shot
it is tempered non-laminated glass and will crumble
One good piece of equipment on any emergency truck or vehicle usually
located in rescue worker's pocket for fast access along with seat belt
cutter
Stephen 77fc35
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> My windows in the bedroom are the same way. I have lubed the track
with limited success. I keep a small sledge hammer in the bedroom jic.
> I posted back in April a potential major source for fire. I have
removed the source from my bus. The freeze heaters on my coach burned
a hole in the water pipe under the night stand while in the infield at
Talladega. The event did not trip the circuit breaker. Flooded the bus
also. I am glad the water was in the line and the pump was on! Or???
The reason for the failure was two of the wires were touching when
they failed. That is not allowed per specifications. I still do not
know why they operated at 85 degrees. In any event, they are gone
now. With hydronic heat, there is no real reason to have them.
> It is not easy to do and inspection of these wires as they are
encased in insulation covering the water pipes. However, if two of
these wires are crossed or get together from movement over the years
the result is inevitable.
> Kinda off the original subject but very important.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Thompson
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with 1995
42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
>
>
> Brad,
>
> Man am I glad you jogged my memory about that bus fire during the
Houston evac. I remember seeing that thing burn too. What a tradgedy.
>
> Yes, you are right about a fire on a coach being a serious matter.
I was just thinking about what I would do if I was in the bedroom and
a fire broke out in the galley. There is no door to get out. I tried
the windows in the bedroom and you would have to have a pry bar to get
them open. I don't think they have ever been open so they are stiff as
hell. Going to have to lube them to get them moving again. A little
WD-40 will do wonders. I notice too that the window latches are very
difficult to release. One of the windows I had to go get a screw
driver to get the latch to release. All of the windows are stiff like
that. Is that a usual thing on these Blue Birds?
>
> Thanks again Brad.
>
> My best regards,
>
> Ron Thompson
> Waller, Texas
> 1995 Wide Body 42" BB
> Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
> Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
> Phone 936-931-2802 land line
> cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
>
> brad barton <bbartonwx@...> wrote:
> Ron,
> One more ramble and I'll quit.
> Marty is right about heat. A dragging brake on a tour bus
evacuating nursing home patients from Hurricane Rita in Houston, blew
out one time on I-45. The driver didn't understand English, so he
continued on after the tire was changed. The brake heated up again
even in stop and go traffic. The wheel became red hot and caught the
rear of the bus on fire. The driver failed to notice until portable
oxygen tanks used by the patients began exploding. The bus turned into
a crematorium for 24 of those patients. I'll never forget watching the
bus burning up live on TV. Also, I left my magnetic retarder on by
mistake in Flagstaff and nearly caught my 84 Bird on fire. I burned
through the air line that operated the driver's seat slide. Imagine
smoke coming from under your coach and you're struggling to get to the
extinguisher with your seat next to the doghouse. Fire on a motorcoach
is almost as serious as fire on board an airplane. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
> bbartonwx@...
>
> To: WanderlodgeForum@...: martingregg598@...: Tue, 26 Jun 2007
00:32:18 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with
1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
>
> Ron, if you have a Allison HT-755 five speed with a retarder, I
have know advice, if you have a 1995-42' you should have a Allison
HD-4060 and a DD series 60 with a 3 position Jacobs engine brake.
Jacobs's brakes close the valves and turn the cylinder into a
compressor creating braking horsepower, each position adds more
cylinders. I haven't driven a 95 in the mountains but I have driven
over a lot of the passes in the Cascades, Montana, Idaho and so on,
but I can't imagine that if your in the right gear at the right RPM
that the engine brake won't hold it back. For me with a less effective
Pac Brake, it is 4th gear at 50 mph at about 2400 rpm's on a 6% or so,
on a steeper grade it's 3 gear at 35-40 mph and I almost never have to
use my air brakes. If I am in 4th and it starts to run away, faster
that I like, I use the brakes to get the coach down to the speed that
I can select the next lower gear. If the Jacobs brake doesn't hold you
back, maybe there is something wrong
> with the Jacobs brake? As for the "Drum type" air brakes, if you
have been on the road for a time and the ambient temp. is hot, and If
you ride the brakes for a long period of time the drum can expand away
from the shoe and you lose your brakes. With some real bad luck you
could heat the wheel up so hot that it heats the tire up and
blowout.Marty95 BMC 37Kennewick Wa
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search
Club.
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-26-2007 00:56
Thanks Gardner for your input. Gathering understanding is exactly what I am
doing. I have seen those runaway truck ramps in the mountains and I sure don't
won't to learn to use one the hard way. LOL
Ron Thompson
Waller, Texas
1995 Wide Body 42" BB
Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
Phone 936-931-2802 land line
cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
Gardner Yeaw
The true 'Jake Brake' is an integral part of the engine design. It
alters the exhaust valve timing to use the exhaust stroke for
compression braking as well as the normal compression stroke. It
makes a very distinctive loud sound when the exhaust valve is opened
late. You most likely have heard it whan an 18 wheeler is behind you
on a down grade. This system provides a significant braking effect.
An exhaust brake simply blocks the exhaust pipe. Since the volume
of the exhaust pipe is significantly greater than the cylinder in
the engine, there is far less resistance to the exhaust stroke and
equally less braking effect.
A retarder is an electronic or hydraulic device that provides
resistance to the drive train. These systems generate a lot of heat
and need to be used in conjunction with the service brakes to
distribute the braking load.
Whatever system your coach has, take the time to understand how
it works and how to effectively use it. Don't assume that it will
work all by itself without your understanding.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
>
> up to 1200 amps at 480 volts but don't do that on a curve or you
get
> to see the wrong side of the tree line
> we are limited to 500 amps on heavy curves
> you have to use a combination of train brake and dynamic on 2%or
more
> grades
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
> wrote:
> >
> > The Jake Brake or Jacob Brake is a particular brand of engine
brake
> > manufactured and sold by Jacobs Vehicle Systems, Inc. While the
term
> > Jake Brake technically only describes Jake Brake brand engine
brakes,
> > it has become a genericized trademark and is often used to refer
to
> > engine brakes or compression release engine brakes in general,
> > especially on large vehicles or heavy equipment. See Wikipedia
for a
> > full entry at:
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_brake>
> >
> > The magnetic retarder used on some earlier BBs is similar to
the
> > technology used for "dynamic braking" on diesel-electric
railroad
> > locomotives. The diesel-electric locomotive is actually a
diesel
> > generator (up to 5000 HP) that powers electric motors to drive
the
> > engine. On down grades, the motors are electrically switched to
> > become generators, and the power produced is directed to very
heavy
> > duty grids and discarded as heat. Realize that these things
produce
> > 600 amps at 600 volts and that's a _lot_ of heat! (Great for
toasting
> > marshmallows.)
> >
> > Pete Masterson
> > aeonix1@
> > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42'
> > El Sobrante, CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 25, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:
> >
> > > My BB has an engine retarder. I have no idea what that is
> > > exactly. I assume it is using the compression of the engine
to
> > > hold back the transmission which will hold back the BB
> > >
> > > What is a Jake Brake?
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Leroy Eckert - 06-26-2007 01:02
Stephen:
Will try the wax idea.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville,FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Birtles
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:54 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb.
Blue Bird
Lube tracks with paraffin wax a small amount goes a long way
If you really worried about escaping from the bedroom through the window
a spring loaded center punch will make the window disappear with one shot
it is tempered non-laminated glass and will crumble
One good piece of equipment on any emergency truck or vehicle usually
located in rescue worker's pocket for fast access along with seat belt
cutter
Stephen 77fc35
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
>
> My windows in the bedroom are the same way. I have lubed the track
with limited success. I keep a small sledge hammer in the bedroom jic.
> I posted back in April a potential major source for fire. I have
removed the source from my bus. The freeze heaters on my coach burned
a hole in the water pipe under the night stand while in the infield at
Talladega. The event did not trip the circuit breaker. Flooded the bus
also. I am glad the water was in the line and the pump was on! Or???
The reason for the failure was two of the wires were touching when
they failed. That is not allowed per specifications. I still do not
know why they operated at 85 degrees. In any event, they are gone
now. With hydronic heat, there is no real reason to have them.
> It is not easy to do and inspection of these wires as they are
encased in insulation covering the water pipes. However, if two of
these wires are crossed or get together from movement over the years
the result is inevitable.
> Kinda off the original subject but very important.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Thompson
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with 1995
42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
>
>
> Brad,
>
> Man am I glad you jogged my memory about that bus fire during the
Houston evac. I remember seeing that thing burn too. What a tradgedy.
>
> Yes, you are right about a fire on a coach being a serious matter.
I was just thinking about what I would do if I was in the bedroom and
a fire broke out in the galley. There is no door to get out. I tried
the windows in the bedroom and you would have to have a pry bar to get
them open. I don't think they have ever been open so they are stiff as
hell. Going to have to lube them to get them moving again. A little
WD-40 will do wonders. I notice too that the window latches are very
difficult to release. One of the windows I had to go get a screw
driver to get the latch to release. All of the windows are stiff like
that. Is that a usual thing on these Blue Birds?
>
> Thanks again Brad.
>
> My best regards,
>
> Ron Thompson
> Waller, Texas
> 1995 Wide Body 42" BB
> Detroit Diesel Series 60 470 HP
> Kubota, 4 cylinder, 1681 cc.
> Phone 936-931-2802 land line
> cell..713-295-0119 Cingular
>
> brad barton <bbartonwx@...> wrote:
> Ron,
> One more ramble and I'll quit.
> Marty is right about heat. A dragging brake on a tour bus
evacuating nursing home patients from Hurricane Rita in Houston, blew
out one time on I-45. The driver didn't understand English, so he
continued on after the tire was changed. The brake heated up again
even in stop and go traffic. The wheel became red hot and caught the
rear of the bus on fire. The driver failed to notice until portable
oxygen tanks used by the patients began exploding. The bus turned into
a crematorium for 24 of those patients. I'll never forget watching the
bus burning up live on TV. Also, I left my magnetic retarder on by
mistake in Flagstaff and nearly caught my 84 Bird on fire. I burned
through the air line that operated the driver's seat slide. Imagine
smoke coming from under your coach and you're struggling to get to the
extinguisher with your seat next to the doghouse. Fire on a motorcoach
is almost as serious as fire on board an airplane. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
> bbartonwx@...
>
> To: WanderlodgeForum@...: martingregg598@...: Tue, 26 Jun 2007
00:32:18 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with
1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
>
> Ron, if you have a Allison HT-755 five speed with a retarder, I
have know advice, if you have a 1995-42' you should have a Allison
HD-4060 and a DD series 60 with a 3 position Jacobs engine brake.
Jacobs's brakes close the valves and turn the cylinder into a
compressor creating braking horsepower, each position adds more
cylinders. I haven't driven a 95 in the mountains but I have driven
over a lot of the passes in the Cascades, Montana, Idaho and so on,
but I can't imagine that if your in the right gear at the right RPM
that the engine brake won't hold it back. For me with a less effective
Pac Brake, it is 4th gear at 50 mph at about 2400 rpm's on a 6% or so,
on a steeper grade it's 3 gear at 35-40 mph and I almost never have to
use my air brakes. If I am in 4th and it starts to run away, faster
that I like, I use the brakes to get the coach down to the speed that
I can select the next lower gear. If the Jacobs brake doesn't hold you
back, maybe there is something wrong
> with the Jacobs brake? As for the "Drum type" air brakes, if you
have been on the road for a time and the ambient temp. is hot, and If
you ride the brakes for a long period of time the drum can expand away
from the shoe and you lose your brakes. With some real bad luck you
could heat the wheel up so hot that it heats the tire up and
blowout.Marty95 BMC 37Kennewick Wa
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search
Club.
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]