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+--- Thread: Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird (/showthread.php?tid=5198)
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - erniecarpet@... - 06-25-2007 07:12
Ron, I may be wrong but don't the newer coaches weigh more then the 42,000
pounds?
Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Mt
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-25-2007 07:28
This is a question that lots of people might want to explore. Would
someone with a lot of experience driving a big rig in the mountains
please write up a good descriptive instruction for mountain driving.
I have never driven in the big mountains with a normal vehicle much
less a 42,000 lb motor coach. I am planning a trip through the
mountains maybe this year but definitely next year from Texas through
the Rockies and on up to Alaska. It would sure be helpful to have
some pointers from an expert.
Best regards,
Ron Thompson
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - brad barton - 06-25-2007 10:43
Ron,
Seeing no response yet, I'll drop my two cents in and hope it's helpful to you.
I have driven in the mountains frequently in my 84 Blue Bird that had a magnetic
retarder and a coach with a more conventional Jake brake. The old rule of thumb
is to come down in the same gear you came up in. Two caveats: One..modern
engines and transmissions can come up a grade more easily than they used to..so
your upgrade gear selection may be higher than what's safe coming down.
Two...the down-grade can be different from the up-grade..so my take on it
is..just be in full, positive control of your speed at all times. If you need
to use your retarder or downshift to do that, do whatever it takes early on
(before you start down the grade) to stay in control and save your service
brakes (brake pedal) for traffic slowdowns and emergencies. If your retarder
won't keep your speed under control, and you can't downshift yet, apply your
brake pedal firmly but for no more than 3 to 5 seconds at a time to slow down a
little below your "comfort" speed in a series of brake applications. If you
have a magnetic retarder, be aware that it will build up considerable heat if
used for several minutes..so downshift to help it out. I don't think your Jake
brake or Pac brake is limited that way but a diesel mechanic can be more
specific. Downshift sooner rather than later. Your transmission will not
downshift beyond certain speeds. You can always ease off but it's hard to clamp
down. Also, if the weather is warm, turn on your fan override switch and keep
it on until you're back on level terrain. Keeping your engine cool helps your
transmission cooler work more efficiently.
Finnally, don't be in a hurry. Don't worry about the cars stacked up behind
you. They'll get around you or get used to you. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@...: cockyfox@...: Mon, 25
Jun 2007 19:28:28 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Mountain Driving with 1995
42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
This is a question that lots of people might want to explore. Wouldsomeone with
a lot of experience driving a big rig in the mountainsplease write up a good
descriptive instruction for mountain driving.I have never driven in the big
mountains with a normal vehicle muchless a 42,000 lb motor coach. I am planning
a trip through themountains maybe this year but definitely next year from Texas
throughthe Rockies and on up to Alaska. It would sure be helpful to havesome
pointers from an expert.Best regards,Ron Thompson
_________________________________________________________________
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Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - James Hutchings - 06-25-2007 10:55
Ron I have a Class A license and spent a fair amount of time behind the
wheel of a Kenworth going back and forth over the grapevine (a long 6% grade
in California). Big rigs and motor homes (buses) are different creatures.
Big rigs often have 15 gears forward and 3 in reverse and run at 80,000
pounds. More gears equals better matching load to horsepower and engine
braking ability. The best people to ask about mountain driving in a
bluebird are the people on this site. I am assuming you have plenty of
ponies, and an engine brake of some type. My basic rules are simple. 1)
Make sure you vehicle is in good shape with proper tire pressure fluid
levels, and brakes properly adjusted. 2) When going up grades keep your RPM
high and watch your engine, transmission and axel temps. If anything starts
to get hot downshift. 3) Be considerate of other driver truck and car. Pass
only when you can move at least 5 miles per hr faster than the vehicle you
are overtaking. Use the slow vehicle lane only if you are going slow, if you
are going slow use vehicle turn outs as a courtesy to others.
Some say to go down a hill (grade) in the same gear you came up, but that is
not always true. Uphill is where you break things downhill is where you
kill things. When starting down a steep grade 6% or so put the vehicle in
a gear that will allow you to control your speed without overtaching the
engine. The brakes are meant to slow the vehicle down use them. Old school
was to apply the brakes hard and slow down then release the brakes to cool
while you gain speed. The currently recommend method is to apply constant
steady pressure to the brakes to maintain a safe speed ( one from which you
could stop the vehicle with the distance allowed in front of you) down the
grade. I agree with the second method, the first is for race cars.
So when descending a grade. 1) shift to a lower gear and use your engine
brake without overtaching. 2 ) apply steady continuous pressure to the
brakes to slow the vehicle while keeping an eye on you air pressure. (if you
smell brakes you are in too high of a gear) 3) Be careful overtaking slow
moving vehicles. 4) watch out for idiots who think you can stop on a dime.
5) you are not under the same rules as the semi trucks i.e. Lane
restrictions and speed limits. Drive at a speed that you feel is safe for
you. I am sure there will be additional opinions, but just to tick them off
they are wrong! Just kidding.
Jim Hutchings
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Thompson
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 12:28 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue
Bird
This is a question that lots of people might want to explore. Would
someone with a lot of experience driving a big rig in the mountains
please write up a good descriptive instruction for mountain driving.
I have never driven in the big mountains with a normal vehicle much
less a 42,000 lb motor coach. I am planning a trip through the
mountains maybe this year but definitely next year from Texas through
the Rockies and on up to Alaska. It would sure be helpful to have
some pointers from an expert.
Best regards,
Ron Thompson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-25-2007 11:08
Thanks Jim, You are exactly the kind of person I was hoping would reply back.
You have made that trip many times and have a load of experience. I appreciate
your answers very much, thank you.
Regards
Ron Thompson
James Hutchings
have a Class A license and spent a fair amount of time behind the
wheel of a Kenworth going back and forth over the grapevine (a long 6% grade
in California). Big rigs and motor homes (buses) are different creatures.
Big rigs often have 15 gears forward and 3 in reverse and run at 80,000
pounds. More gears equals better matching load to horsepower and engine
braking ability. The best people to ask about mountain driving in a
bluebird are the people on this site. I am assuming you have plenty of
ponies, and an engine brake of some type. My basic rules are simple. 1)
Make sure you vehicle is in good shape with proper tire pressure fluid
levels, and brakes properly adjusted. 2) When going up grades keep your RPM
high and watch your engine, transmission and axel temps. If anything starts
to get hot downshift. 3) Be considerate of other driver truck and car. Pass
only when you can move at least 5 miles per hr faster than the vehicle you
are overtaking. Use the slow vehicle lane only if you are going slow, if you
are going slow use vehicle turn outs as a courtesy to others.
Some say to go down a hill (grade) in the same gear you came up, but that is
not always true. Uphill is where you break things downhill is where you
kill things. When starting down a steep grade 6% or so put the vehicle in
a gear that will allow you to control your speed without overtaching the
engine. The brakes are meant to slow the vehicle down use them. Old school
was to apply the brakes hard and slow down then release the brakes to cool
while you gain speed. The currently recommend method is to apply constant
steady pressure to the brakes to maintain a safe speed ( one from which you
could stop the vehicle with the distance allowed in front of you) down the
grade. I agree with the second method, the first is for race cars.
So when descending a grade. 1) shift to a lower gear and use your engine
brake without overtaching. 2 ) apply steady continuous pressure to the
brakes to slow the vehicle while keeping an eye on you air pressure. (if you
smell brakes you are in too high of a gear) 3) Be careful overtaking slow
moving vehicles. 4) watch out for idiots who think you can stop on a dime.
5) you are not under the same rules as the semi trucks i.e. Lane
restrictions and speed limits. Drive at a speed that you feel is safe for
you. I am sure there will be additional opinions, but just to tick them off
they are wrong! Just kidding.
Jim Hutchings
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Thompson
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 12:28 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue
Bird
This is a question that lots of people might want to explore. Would
someone with a lot of experience driving a big rig in the mountains
please write up a good descriptive instruction for mountain driving.
I have never driven in the big mountains with a normal vehicle much
less a 42,000 lb motor coach. I am planning a trip through the
mountains maybe this year but definitely next year from Texas through
the Rockies and on up to Alaska. It would sure be helpful to have
some pointers from an expert.
Best regards,
Ron Thompson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-25-2007 11:28
My BB has an engine retarder. I have no idea what that is exactly. I assume it
is using the compression of the engine to hold back the transmission which will
hold back the BB
What is a Jake Brake?
I don't think my 1995 has a magnetic retarder.
I remember once I was in Los Angeles and a cousin took me up on bald mountain in
a 1949 Chevrolet, six cylinder, old hydraulic brakes. On the way down those
brakes got so hot that the vehicle began to pick up speed and I managed to find
a wide spot where I ran into an uphill ramp and got it stopped. Had to wait for
a long long time for those brakes to cool off. Scared the hell out of me.
Thanks for your help. Jim Hutchings wrote a pretty good description. He used
to drive a big Kenworth with 80,000 lb loads. So his words were very welcome as
yours are. Your experience will be very relevant since we both have BB's.
Thanks again.
Ron Thompson
brad barton <bbartonwx@...> wrote:
Ron,
Seeing no response yet, I'll drop my two cents in and hope it's helpful to you.
I have driven in the mountains frequently in my 84 Blue Bird that had a magnetic
retarder and a coach with a more conventional Jake brake. The old rule of thumb
is to come down in the same gear you came up in. Two caveats: One..modern
engines and transmissions can come up a grade more easily than they used to..so
your upgrade gear selection may be higher than what's safe coming down.
Two...the down-grade can be different from the up-grade..so my take on it
is..just be in full, positive control of your speed at all times. If you need
to use your retarder or downshift to do that, do whatever it takes early on
(before you start down the grade) to stay in control and save your service
brakes (brake pedal) for traffic slowdowns and emergencies. If your retarder
won't keep your speed under control, and you can't downshift yet, apply your
brake pedal firmly but for no more than 3 to 5 seconds
at a time to slow down a little below your "comfort" speed in a series of brake
applications. If you have a magnetic retarder, be aware that it will build up
considerable heat if used for several minutes..so downshift to help it out. I
don't think your Jake brake or Pac brake is limited that way but a diesel
mechanic can be more specific. Downshift sooner rather than later. Your
transmission will not downshift beyond certain speeds. You can always ease off
but it's hard to clamp down. Also, if the weather is warm, turn on your fan
override switch and keep it on until you're back on level terrain. Keeping your
engine cool helps your transmission cooler work more efficiently.
Finnally, don't be in a hurry. Don't worry about the cars stacked up behind
you. They'll get around you or get used to you. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@...: cockyfox@...: Mon, 25
Jun 2007 19:28:28 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Mountain Driving with 1995
42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
This is a question that lots of people might want to explore. Wouldsomeone with
a lot of experience driving a big rig in the mountainsplease write up a good
descriptive instruction for mountain driving.I have never driven in the big
mountains with a normal vehicle muchless a 42,000 lb motor coach. I am planning
a trip through themountains maybe this year but definitely next year from Texas
throughthe Rockies and on up to Alaska. It would sure be helpful to havesome
pointers from an expert.Best regards,Ron Thompson
__________________________________________________________
With Windows Live Hotmail, you can personalize your inbox with your favorite
color.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/personalize.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAG\
LM_HMWL_reten_addcolor_0607
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - Ron Thompson - 06-25-2007 11:32
I don't know about the new ones but mine is a 1995 and the body tag says 42,000
lbs. My guess would be that it is probably heavier than the new ones. They are
taking weight out of them to cut the cost of production.
Just my thoughts./
Regards,
Ron Thompson
erniecarpet@... wrote: Ron, I may be wrong
but don't the newer coaches weigh more then the 42,000
pounds?
Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Mt
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - martingregg598 - 06-25-2007 12:32
Ron, if you have a Allison HT-755 five speed with a retarder, I have
know advice, if you have a 1995-42' you should have a Allison HD-4060
and a DD series 60 with a 3 position Jacobs engine brake. Jacobs's
brakes close the valves and turn the cylinder into a compressor
creating braking horsepower, each position adds more cylinders. I
haven't driven a 95 in the mountains but I have driven over a lot of
the passes in the Cascades, Montana, Idaho and so on, but I can't
imagine that if your in the right gear at the right RPM that the
engine brake won't hold it back. For me with a less effective Pac
Brake, it is 4th gear at 50 mph at about 2400 rpm's on a 6% or so, on
a steeper grade it's 3 gear at 35-40 mph and I almost never have to
use my air brakes. If I am in 4th and it starts to run away, faster
that I like, I use the brakes to get the coach down to the speed that
I can select the next lower gear. If the Jacobs brake doesn't hold
you back, maybe there is something wrong with the Jacobs brake?
As for the "Drum type" air brakes, if you have been on the road for a
time and the ambient temp. is hot, and If you ride the brakes for a
long period of time the drum can expand away from the shoe and you
lose your brakes. With some real bad luck you could heat the wheel up
so hot that it heats the tire up and blowout.
Marty
95 BMC 37
Kennewick Wa
Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - brad barton - 06-25-2007 12:47
Ron,
The truckers are certainly the pros and I have learned a lot from their
experience. But Jim is right to mention RV's are different in many ways. I
hadn't heard about holding the brakes on for longer than a few seconds. I
wonder if newer brake shoe materials can handle that kind of heat better.
Your magnetic retarder works on the principle of creating magnetic eddys or
currents that resist the momentum of the metal in your drive shaft or
differential. But like brakes, it converts motion into heat. It is a silent,
elegant way to slow down your coach. The Jake brake is built into your engine.
It creates back pressure in your diesel engine resisting the momentum of the
pistons. It makes a lot of noise but works very well. The Pac brake is not as
sophisticated or adjustable but does the same thing, only it's built into your
exhaust system instead of the engine itself.
As to questions about weight, I believe the early 2000 Birds were the heaviest.
Mine grosses out at over over 50K, but BB has probably done a lot to cut a lot
of the weight and much of the cost out of its newer coaches. Brad Barton
00LXiDFW bbartonwx@...
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Mountain Driving with 1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird - brad barton - 06-25-2007 12:56
Ron,
One more ramble and I'll quit.
Marty is right about heat. A dragging brake on a tour bus evacuating nursing
home patients from Hurricane Rita in Houston, blew out one time on I-45. The
driver didn't understand English, so he continued on after the tire was changed.
The brake heated up again even in stop and go traffic. The wheel became red hot
and caught the rear of the bus on fire. The driver failed to notice until
portable oxygen tanks used by the patients began exploding. The bus turned into
a crematorium for 24 of those patients. I'll never forget watching the bus
burning up live on TV. Also, I left my magnetic retarder on by mistake in
Flagstaff and nearly caught my 84 Bird on fire. I burned through the air line
that operated the driver's seat slide. Imagine smoke coming from under your
coach and you're struggling to get to the extinguisher with your seat next to
the doghouse. Fire on a motorcoach is almost as serious as fire on board an
airplane. Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@...: martingregg598@...: Tue, 26
Jun 2007 00:32:18 +0000Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Mountain Driving with
1995 42', 42,000 lb. Blue Bird
Ron, if you have a Allison HT-755 five speed with a retarder, I have know
advice, if you have a 1995-42' you should have a Allison HD-4060 and a DD series
60 with a 3 position Jacobs engine brake. Jacobs's brakes close the valves and
turn the cylinder into a compressor creating braking horsepower, each position
adds more cylinders. I haven't driven a 95 in the mountains but I have driven
over a lot of the passes in the Cascades, Montana, Idaho and so on, but I can't
imagine that if your in the right gear at the right RPM that the engine brake
won't hold it back. For me with a less effective Pac Brake, it is 4th gear at 50
mph at about 2400 rpm's on a 6% or so, on a steeper grade it's 3 gear at 35-40
mph and I almost never have to use my air brakes. If I am in 4th and it starts
to run away, faster that I like, I use the brakes to get the coach down to the
speed that I can select the next lower gear. If the Jacobs brake doesn't hold
you back, maybe there is something wrong with the Jacobs brake? As for the "Drum
type" air brakes, if you have been on the road for a time and the ambient temp.
is hot, and If you ride the brakes for a long period of time the drum can expand
away from the shoe and you lose your brakes. With some real bad luck you could
heat the wheel up so hot that it heats the tire up and blowout.Marty95 BMC
37Kennewick Wa
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