83 FC - Is my engine 225 or 250 horse?

[Jeff Miller]

All MY-83 Wanderlodge FCs had the 3208Ta (Ta = Turbo, automatic
transmission) engine. Most all of them were 225hp, the last dozen were
reputedly 250hp. Externally the engines are identical, all of the BB
turbo engines have the larger oil cooler which indicates the turbo
engine with piston oil-cooling sprays and roller lifters etc., the only
way I know to tell is finding the ID plate on one of the valve covers
(which one depends on whether it is original or replacement). The valve-
covers originally also said "Intercity" on them. 4.89:1 gears were
standard and equipped on over 95% of the '83-'86 FCs, the optional
4.63:1 gears nicer but very rare.

The model year on the production line in those years started around
August '82 and ran through around July of '83 before changing to
the '84. I have had one of the first '83s, one of the last, and a
couple in-between. The last-late one I had was originally a 250hp, also
had the '84 inside window trim (no aluminum trim), the air-cruise-
control, and other '84 items I can't remember currently.

If your '83 was built June or before, I doubt it originally had the
250hp engine (tag above the center of the windshield). A July coach,
possibly. This might be a moot point as so many FCs have had engines
replaced, and most of those replacements were upgraded to the 250hp
engine. Also, if someone knowledgable like Buddy Gregg, salesman at
that time for Harvey Mitchell Cadillac (love this trivia) knew it was
possible, he might have ordered the 250hp for a special customer ahead
of production.

To further confuse the issue, BlueBird is a manufacturer, they can
technically title an '83FC as a 2007 if they still have the chassis
incomplete / un-titled. Some coaches were not complete during the model
year the chassis was built, an example being some of the 96" wide PTs
sold in '89, so they were titled as the model year when the coach was
completed. Late Lxi coaches were also built on chassis which were built
earlier. I don't know if there are examples of 31' or 33' coaches that
crossed model years, but it could happen, especially in the case of the
WLII which had significant differences in chassis equipment.

Some indicators of a late '83 coach were the deadbolt on the door
being a couple of inches above the rub-rail, the 4-bolt mirror mounts,
and the rectangular turn-signals on the sides replacing the earlier
beehive-style ones.

As Mike H. has said though, what matters more than whether it is a 225
or 250, is the arrangement number. If you need parts such as injector
nozzles, Cat won't be able to help you much without both the
arrangement and serial number. Other items such as the rocker-cover
gaskets, PCV, filters, etc., are common to all of the '83-'86 FCs and
you should be able to get that information here.

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "olson_phil" wrote:
>
> I have not checked mine out yet to tell which engine it might be. I
> know it came from the factory with a 225hp, but was told it was
> replaced with a rebuilt 250hp, but don't have any documentation on
> it. Getting it out of storage tonight for the summer so now I will
> have it at the house to play with and try to figure these things
> out. Just ordered a new back up camera system from rvcams.com, so
> that will be this weekends project.
>
> Phil Olson
> Appleton, WI
> 83FC35SB

[Andy Coleman]

Thank you Jeff for the great info!

If I were to call the BB factory and provide them with all the numbers
on my service parts sheet, might they be able to provide me with a
build sheet containing all the info on my bus? Including engine type
and factory options?

It would sure be nice to know what my bus was like out of the factory!

Andy

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
wrote:
>
> All MY-83 Wanderlodge FCs had the 3208Ta (Ta = Turbo, automatic
> transmission) engine. Most all of them were 225hp, the last dozen were
> reputedly 250hp. Externally the engines are identical, all of the BB
> turbo engines have the larger oil cooler which indicates the turbo
> engine with piston oil-cooling sprays and roller lifters etc., the only
> way I know to tell is finding the ID plate on one of the valve covers
> (which one depends on whether it is original or replacement). The valve-
> covers originally also said "Intercity" on them. 4.89:1 gears were
> standard and equipped on over 95% of the '83-'86 FCs, the optional
> 4.63:1 gears nicer but very rare.
>
> The model year on the production line in those years started around
> August '82 and ran through around July of '83 before changing to
> the '84. I have had one of the first '83s, one of the last, and a
> couple in-between. The last-late one I had was originally a 250hp, also
> had the '84 inside window trim (no aluminum trim), the air-cruise-
> control, and other '84 items I can't remember currently.
>
> If your '83 was built June or before, I doubt it originally had the
> 250hp engine (tag above the center of the windshield). A July coach,
> possibly. This might be a moot point as so many FCs have had engines
> replaced, and most of those replacements were upgraded to the 250hp
> engine. Also, if someone knowledgable like Buddy Gregg, salesman at
> that time for Harvey Mitchell Cadillac (love this trivia) knew it was
> possible, he might have ordered the 250hp for a special customer ahead
> of production.
>
> To further confuse the issue, BlueBird is a manufacturer, they can
> technically title an '83FC as a 2007 if they still have the chassis
> incomplete / un-titled. Some coaches were not complete during the model
> year the chassis was built, an example being some of the 96" wide PTs
> sold in '89, so they were titled as the model year when the coach was
> completed. Late Lxi coaches were also built on chassis which were built
> earlier. I don't know if there are examples of 31' or 33' coaches that
> crossed model years, but it could happen, especially in the case of the
> WLII which had significant differences in chassis equipment.
>
> Some indicators of a late '83 coach were the deadbolt on the door
> being a couple of inches above the rub-rail, the 4-bolt mirror mounts,
> and the rectangular turn-signals on the sides replacing the earlier
> beehive-style ones.
>
> As Mike H. has said though, what matters more than whether it is a 225
> or 250, is the arrangement number. If you need parts such as injector
> nozzles, Cat won't be able to help you much without both the
> arrangement and serial number. Other items such as the rocker-cover
> gaskets, PCV, filters, etc., are common to all of the '83-'86 FCs and
> you should be able to get that information here.
>
> - Jeff Miller
> in Holland, MI
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "olson_phil" > wrote:
> >
> > I have not checked mine out yet to tell which engine it might be. I
> > know it came from the factory with a 225hp, but was told it was
> > replaced with a rebuilt 250hp, but don't have any documentation on
> > it. Getting it out of storage tonight for the summer so now I will
> > have it at the house to play with and try to figure these things
> > out. Just ordered a new back up camera system from rvcams.com, so
> > that will be this weekends project.
> >
> > Phil Olson
> > Appleton, WI
> > 83FC35SB
>

[Jeff Miller]

When I was getting build sheets, Bennie was the guy. He is still
there, but he was unsuccessful last time I wanted one. Bennie is over
in Coachworks, the records are in the bus company, not sure if they
all exist anymore.

Best of luck,

- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Coleman"
wrote:
>
> Thank you Jeff for the great info!
>
> If I were to call the BB factory and provide them with all the
numbers
> on my service parts sheet, might they be able to provide me with a
> build sheet containing all the info on my bus? Including engine
type
> and factory options?
>
> It would sure be nice to know what my bus was like out of the
factory!
>
> Andy
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller"
> wrote:
> >
> > All MY-83 Wanderlodge FCs had the 3208Ta (Ta = Turbo, automatic
> > transmission) engine. Most all of them were 225hp, the last dozen
were
> > reputedly 250hp. Externally the engines are identical, all of the
BB
> > turbo engines have the larger oil cooler which indicates the
turbo
> > engine with piston oil-cooling sprays and roller lifters etc.,
the only
> > way I know to tell is finding the ID plate on one of the valve
covers
> > (which one depends on whether it is original or replacement). The
valve-
> > covers originally also said "Intercity" on them. 4.89:1 gears
were
> > standard and equipped on over 95% of the '83-'86 FCs, the
optional
> > 4.63:1 gears nicer but very rare.
> >
> > The model year on the production line in those years started
around
> > August '82 and ran through around July of '83 before changing to
> > the '84. I have had one of the first '83s, one of the last, and a
> > couple in-between. The last-late one I had was originally a
250hp, also
> > had the '84 inside window trim (no aluminum trim), the air-cruise-
> > control, and other '84 items I can't remember currently.
> >
> > If your '83 was built June or before, I doubt it originally had
the
> > 250hp engine (tag above the center of the windshield). A July
coach,
> > possibly. This might be a moot point as so many FCs have had
engines
> > replaced, and most of those replacements were upgraded to the
250hp
> > engine. Also, if someone knowledgable like Buddy Gregg, salesman
at
> > that time for Harvey Mitchell Cadillac (love this trivia) knew it
was
> > possible, he might have ordered the 250hp for a special customer
ahead
> > of production.
> >
> > To further confuse the issue, BlueBird is a manufacturer, they
can
> > technically title an '83FC as a 2007 if they still have the
chassis
> > incomplete / un-titled. Some coaches were not complete during the
model
> > year the chassis was built, an example being some of the 96" wide
PTs
> > sold in '89, so they were titled as the model year when the coach
was
> > completed. Late Lxi coaches were also built on chassis which were
built
> > earlier. I don't know if there are examples of 31' or 33' coaches
that
> > crossed model years, but it could happen, especially in the case
of the
> > WLII which had significant differences in chassis equipment.
> >
> > Some indicators of a late '83 coach were the deadbolt on the
door
> > being a couple of inches above the rub-rail, the 4-bolt mirror
mounts,
> > and the rectangular turn-signals on the sides replacing the
earlier
> > beehive-style ones.
> >
> > As Mike H. has said though, what matters more than whether it is
a 225
> > or 250, is the arrangement number. If you need parts such as
injector
> > nozzles, Cat won't be able to help you much without both the
> > arrangement and serial number. Other items such as the rocker-
cover
> > gaskets, PCV, filters, etc., are common to all of the '83-'86 FCs
and
> > you should be able to get that information here.
> >
> > - Jeff Miller
> > in Holland, MI
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "olson_phil"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I have not checked mine out yet to tell which engine it might
be. I
> > > know it came from the factory with a 225hp, but was told it was
> > > replaced with a rebuilt 250hp, but don't have any documentation
on
> > > it. Getting it out of storage tonight for the summer so now I
will
> > > have it at the house to play with and try to figure these
things
> > > out. Just ordered a new back up camera system from rvcams.com,
so
> > > that will be this weekends project.
> > >
> > > Phil Olson
> > > Appleton, WI
> > > 83FC35SB
> >
>